quackity quack quack all the way home
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quackity quack quack all the way home
Got this email from AH last night.
Rememeber: I am the one who decided I had had enough. I asked him to leave. It was a fiasco getting him to go. He seems to have forgotten this!
FWIW, I'm sharing this email not bc I am bothered by it but bc it shows me how far I've come. In the past, this sort of letter would have thrown me into a tailspin. I would have said "come home, I miss you, I believe you, it's all okay". I've done that tens of times over the past few yrs.
This time? I read it, felt bad for him that he's still trying to play the same games and hoping for the same result AND I didn't shy away from addressing his request that we call off the separation. In the past I'd hem and haw and avoid saying things he didn't want to hear. When he came to see the girls last night we put them to bed and then I very bluntly but politely told him that I wasn't going to take his words without action and wasn't going to do anything differently than what was currently happening. I said I did not trust his words and he didn't have to like that but that it was what it was. I said that nothing was going to change from the present course of action and that long term change over time was the only thing that would make me believe that words he spoke were true. I didn't apologize, mince my words or get emotional and to my surprise he didn't get upset. I think I surprised him by standing up for myself without emotion and by being so blunt and I'm feeling good.
That said, the quacking in this letter is too good to not share! It sounds sweet I suppose to those who don't know him but it's all about him, all self centered and all fluff words with no real substance as far as I can tell...
Here is what I have been thinking about: My life has a fork in the road, I can either remained married to you or I can separate from u. This email itemizes what my life would look like if I choose each of these 2 roads. The categories are this:
Marriage:
I will be completely honest bc I want to be free from anxiety, tension and stress. I want to be open and trusting because I want a real connection with you. I want to be your best friend again. I will do this by simply telling you all that I am thinking, doing and feeling and let the chips fall where they may. I am exhausted by trying to lead a double life with you. I have been worried that u wont love me if I am not some idealized version of myself. I will trust that you will love me with all of my imperfections. The alternative in the single world is: dishonesty with myself and a constant series of rationalizations and excuse-making.
The second one is sobriety. Even tho I dont want complete an total abstinence I am prepared to do that if that is what it takes to keep my marriage and family intact. Having a few beers does not hold a candle to staying with you. (*my take? a few beers may not hold a candle to being with me, but a 30 pack? That's a different story! LOL!) The alternative i the single world is: No need for abstinence and probable abuse of alcohol.
Third is companionship with u. This means having someone to share my life with and our lives together. I havent seen this in a completrely positive light in the past, I have seen it as a bit of a chore, which is illogical and insane. I still love spending time with u doing something or just doing nothing. The alternative in the single world is: loneliness and an antisocial isolated existence.
Fourth is Family. I want the best for my wife, daughters and us as a family, and the best way for this to be achieved is for me to give ALL that I have to my family. It means making sacrifices out of love and compromises for the greater good. I will do this. This also means being communicative, open and honest. The alternative in the single world is: a broken family that is constantly struggling with uncertainty. I DO NOT want this.
Fifth is Fatherhood. The two best things that have EVER happened to me was marrying you and having a family. These are the two things in my life that I have zero regrets about. Being a father is the only existence I will ever want, and I want to be able to be a father 24/7. I want to be there for their development, for their ups and downs, for their lives. The alternative i the single world is: part time, half-ass, disfunctional fatherhood that is at best inadequate and at worst destructive. This i dont ever want.
Sixth is replacing the I's for the US. I have always thought I was a good teammate, a good provider, and a good sacrificer / compromiser. I dont think I have been this for some time. Drinking and deceptions IS selfish and childish. The alternative i the single world is: filling an empty life with wants and visceral satisfactions that will ultimately kill me from the inside out.
Seventh is Interdependence. I am still having a hard time understanding what this is exactly. I think it means having family to rely and depend upon, and having oneself be relied and depended upon. The alternative i the single world is: independence. This independence will never be gratifying bc I know I would have given up the world for an obligationless adolescent existence.
I dont want to lose you; I dont want to lose my family. I beg you to reconsider us staying married, as I want to do all the changes I proposed above. I am not perfect, but I know I can be better. I want to wear my ring and you yours, and I meant what I said, I DO love u more now than I did in 03. * he told me this weekend he loves me more than he did when he married me and that the reason he acts like he does is because he cares so much (I told him that sounded a lot like the rationale that wife beaters use to justify their behavior and that was the end of that)
Take all the time u want - pls tell me what u r thinking and feeling; if u still want a separation or divorce, I will do that and be the best absentee father I can be. There were other things I was thinking of, and maybe when we talk I will remember them. I love u.
Rememeber: I am the one who decided I had had enough. I asked him to leave. It was a fiasco getting him to go. He seems to have forgotten this!
FWIW, I'm sharing this email not bc I am bothered by it but bc it shows me how far I've come. In the past, this sort of letter would have thrown me into a tailspin. I would have said "come home, I miss you, I believe you, it's all okay". I've done that tens of times over the past few yrs.
This time? I read it, felt bad for him that he's still trying to play the same games and hoping for the same result AND I didn't shy away from addressing his request that we call off the separation. In the past I'd hem and haw and avoid saying things he didn't want to hear. When he came to see the girls last night we put them to bed and then I very bluntly but politely told him that I wasn't going to take his words without action and wasn't going to do anything differently than what was currently happening. I said I did not trust his words and he didn't have to like that but that it was what it was. I said that nothing was going to change from the present course of action and that long term change over time was the only thing that would make me believe that words he spoke were true. I didn't apologize, mince my words or get emotional and to my surprise he didn't get upset. I think I surprised him by standing up for myself without emotion and by being so blunt and I'm feeling good.
That said, the quacking in this letter is too good to not share! It sounds sweet I suppose to those who don't know him but it's all about him, all self centered and all fluff words with no real substance as far as I can tell...
Here is what I have been thinking about: My life has a fork in the road, I can either remained married to you or I can separate from u. This email itemizes what my life would look like if I choose each of these 2 roads. The categories are this:
Marriage:
I will be completely honest bc I want to be free from anxiety, tension and stress. I want to be open and trusting because I want a real connection with you. I want to be your best friend again. I will do this by simply telling you all that I am thinking, doing and feeling and let the chips fall where they may. I am exhausted by trying to lead a double life with you. I have been worried that u wont love me if I am not some idealized version of myself. I will trust that you will love me with all of my imperfections. The alternative in the single world is: dishonesty with myself and a constant series of rationalizations and excuse-making.
The second one is sobriety. Even tho I dont want complete an total abstinence I am prepared to do that if that is what it takes to keep my marriage and family intact. Having a few beers does not hold a candle to staying with you. (*my take? a few beers may not hold a candle to being with me, but a 30 pack? That's a different story! LOL!) The alternative i the single world is: No need for abstinence and probable abuse of alcohol.
Third is companionship with u. This means having someone to share my life with and our lives together. I havent seen this in a completrely positive light in the past, I have seen it as a bit of a chore, which is illogical and insane. I still love spending time with u doing something or just doing nothing. The alternative in the single world is: loneliness and an antisocial isolated existence.
Fourth is Family. I want the best for my wife, daughters and us as a family, and the best way for this to be achieved is for me to give ALL that I have to my family. It means making sacrifices out of love and compromises for the greater good. I will do this. This also means being communicative, open and honest. The alternative in the single world is: a broken family that is constantly struggling with uncertainty. I DO NOT want this.
Fifth is Fatherhood. The two best things that have EVER happened to me was marrying you and having a family. These are the two things in my life that I have zero regrets about. Being a father is the only existence I will ever want, and I want to be able to be a father 24/7. I want to be there for their development, for their ups and downs, for their lives. The alternative i the single world is: part time, half-ass, disfunctional fatherhood that is at best inadequate and at worst destructive. This i dont ever want.
Sixth is replacing the I's for the US. I have always thought I was a good teammate, a good provider, and a good sacrificer / compromiser. I dont think I have been this for some time. Drinking and deceptions IS selfish and childish. The alternative i the single world is: filling an empty life with wants and visceral satisfactions that will ultimately kill me from the inside out.
Seventh is Interdependence. I am still having a hard time understanding what this is exactly. I think it means having family to rely and depend upon, and having oneself be relied and depended upon. The alternative i the single world is: independence. This independence will never be gratifying bc I know I would have given up the world for an obligationless adolescent existence.
I dont want to lose you; I dont want to lose my family. I beg you to reconsider us staying married, as I want to do all the changes I proposed above. I am not perfect, but I know I can be better. I want to wear my ring and you yours, and I meant what I said, I DO love u more now than I did in 03. * he told me this weekend he loves me more than he did when he married me and that the reason he acts like he does is because he cares so much (I told him that sounded a lot like the rationale that wife beaters use to justify their behavior and that was the end of that)
Take all the time u want - pls tell me what u r thinking and feeling; if u still want a separation or divorce, I will do that and be the best absentee father I can be. There were other things I was thinking of, and maybe when we talk I will remember them. I love u.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 139
Thanks for posting this. He sounds like my AH.
I needed to see this this morning. I have trouble with my resolve when it comes to leaving and talking to him about his addiction. He is an awesome manipulator.
He can talk about changing, and what he wants to do for his family bla bla bla all day, but when it comes down to it. There are still empty bottles of wine all over the house.
Glad you're sticking to your guns.
Hoping I can do the same.
I needed to see this this morning. I have trouble with my resolve when it comes to leaving and talking to him about his addiction. He is an awesome manipulator.
He can talk about changing, and what he wants to do for his family bla bla bla all day, but when it comes down to it. There are still empty bottles of wine all over the house.
Glad you're sticking to your guns.
Hoping I can do the same.
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caged bird- like i said, it took me many years of believing the letters, the words, not expecting actions and relying on hollow promises BEFORE i got to the 'stick to my resolve' point. i guess i had to exhaust all hope before i could believe i could really "give up". don't beat yourself up if you can't stick to your resolve right now... you're doing the best you can at the present time and i know that the more i told myself "i should...." the harder it was for me to do what i needed to.
i'm glad my post of was of some help... i have many times found that i came on here and read a post that was just what i needed at just that time...
i'm glad my post of was of some help... i have many times found that i came on here and read a post that was just what i needed at just that time...
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
In spite of #6 on his list, I started counting "I"s and stopped at 50+. Reminds me of that old joke: "Enough about me. Let's talk about you. What do you think of me?" Never ONCE did he say, it's important that YOU get what you need from this relationship.
What also struck me is how much he makes clear what HE will be sacrificing. He makes it clear that he doesn't really want to stop drinking, but he'll sacrifice. "Look what I'll be giving up!!" he's screaming. He sounds like he's not really crazy about giving up his obligationsless adolescent existence. And what about manipulation: "I'll be the best absentee father I can be." Couldn't he have said, "I'll do what I can to stay involved and present"? Interesting choice of words--says it all.
I'm not picking on him--these are attitudes I've heard from my AH, so I, too, just kind of laughed when I read this.
You're doing great, WTBH!
What also struck me is how much he makes clear what HE will be sacrificing. He makes it clear that he doesn't really want to stop drinking, but he'll sacrifice. "Look what I'll be giving up!!" he's screaming. He sounds like he's not really crazy about giving up his obligationsless adolescent existence. And what about manipulation: "I'll be the best absentee father I can be." Couldn't he have said, "I'll do what I can to stay involved and present"? Interesting choice of words--says it all.
I'm not picking on him--these are attitudes I've heard from my AH, so I, too, just kind of laughed when I read this.
You're doing great, WTBH!
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: bay area, ca
Posts: 87
Glad you are sticking to your guns, WTBH. I love the wise saying "watch the actions, not the words" - first time I heard this, it made such sense.... My stbxah has also been trying to convince me to stop the divorce process and said we could continue to live separately... divorce is not good for the kids, etc, etc. We just have to keep standing by what we say and not give in to their manipulation.
hugs to you..
hugs to you..
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
WTB, I'm glad you can see that talk is cheap (especially the kind that uses text speak like "u r"...ugh, my pet peeve). He's obviously put some thought into this last desperate attempt to sway you. Good for you for sticking your ground!
My exAH sent me a similar email, but instead of begging it was filled with threats, like "If we divorce, our daughter will grow up to be a pregnant drug0addicted teenage prostitute because she won't have her AMAZING father to guide (read: threaten) her and it'll be ALL.YOUR.FAULT.YOU.B*TCH."
fun times.
My exAH sent me a similar email, but instead of begging it was filled with threats, like "If we divorce, our daughter will grow up to be a pregnant drug0addicted teenage prostitute because she won't have her AMAZING father to guide (read: threaten) her and it'll be ALL.YOUR.FAULT.YOU.B*TCH."
fun times.
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The I's really are amazing huh?! I did mention to him when I told him clearly that we weren't getting back together last night that he came across as entirely self absorbed. His reply was to tell me that I've been telling him he ought to focus on himself and not blaming me so he tried to do that. I nearly laughed out loud at this point but thought it best not to. I really do believe that he thinks this self absorbed behavior is akin to "looking at himself". My take? He is selfish, doesn't see it at all, and despite thinking he isn't blaming me he most definitely is. Saying things like he'll have to settle with being an absentee father if I don't agree to call off the separation/divorce sure sounds like blame to me...
It feels nice to not let this get to me and to be simultaneously amused by it (bc I can see it for the manipulation attempt it is) and saddened by it bc it reflects just how entrenched in his sickness he is...
It feels nice to not let this get to me and to be simultaneously amused by it (bc I can see it for the manipulation attempt it is) and saddened by it bc it reflects just how entrenched in his sickness he is...
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no day but 2 day... i am nearly certain that once the mr nice guy act ends when he realizes it isn't going to get him what he wants, i WILL get the emails (or more likely the verbal attack bc he has smartened up and isn't putting his nastiness in writing anymore) that tell me what an evil mother i am. as it is, i can see glimpses of 'it will be all your fault that i will be an absentee father' in what he wrote-- it's very subtle but it's there and it's just a matter of time before the vile words come... sigh...
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At least it's textbook enough that you know what's coming. First the begging/manipulation, and then what that fails, the veiled threats/insults, then more begging, then he may disappear for a while once he finds a new enabler, and then he may settle for the occasional jab at you via mutual acquaintances or during visitation exchanges.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
Do they have a book that they get these emails/letters/speeches from?
Same quack, different AH?
I mean that as a joke, but I really know that the heartbreaking sad part is that the majority of the AHs, or ex AHs really are so controlled by this awful disease that they truly believe this stuff they write or say ~
They truly believe they are going to "change the world" with their words - they just never have the actions or are so caught up in the disease they never are able to break free from it to follow thru with the actions to back up these intentions.
Either way - I have found it's always best to make my decision after I have seen it happen rather than what I hear promised -
sounds like you are doing what is healthy for you and your family!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Same quack, different AH?
I mean that as a joke, but I really know that the heartbreaking sad part is that the majority of the AHs, or ex AHs really are so controlled by this awful disease that they truly believe this stuff they write or say ~
They truly believe they are going to "change the world" with their words - they just never have the actions or are so caught up in the disease they never are able to break free from it to follow thru with the actions to back up these intentions.
Either way - I have found it's always best to make my decision after I have seen it happen rather than what I hear promised -
sounds like you are doing what is healthy for you and your family!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
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WTBH you are a wise women and you know this will more than likely take a nasty spin once you don't go flying back into his arms. Make sure your guards are up so you can be as prepared as possible. Like I keep telling my RAH I will only trust sustained change, period. I frankly want both words and actions, but words alone will get him no where. I think we may be in for a rocky time here soon, but at least I feel like my head is on straight and for once in our marriage my thoughts, feeling and actions will have me as the priority instead of worrying about how it will all affect him.
I have to say it is quite dumbfounding how your AH one minute is assulting and intimidating you and the next writes that kind of letter. Talk about Jekell and Hyde.
Stay strong! You are doing great!
I have to say it is quite dumbfounding how your AH one minute is assulting and intimidating you and the next writes that kind of letter. Talk about Jekell and Hyde.
Stay strong! You are doing great!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Just keep telling him that actions speak louder than words.
In the time it took him to write that email, he could have attended an AA meeting!
Stay strong. Our A's are master manipulators. If they are truly committed to being a family, they know what to do.
In the time it took him to write that email, he could have attended an AA meeting!
Stay strong. Our A's are master manipulators. If they are truly committed to being a family, they know what to do.
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Thanks for posting this.
It is amazing when I ask for ESH about words vs actions how much I get. I bet this has been hitting me on the head for the last four years (at least) but when I finally realize it is a big issue for me I get to actually "listen" to everyone else's experience and learn and grow.
I am sorry you are going through it, but thanks for sharing. It is helping me so much.
It is amazing when I ask for ESH about words vs actions how much I get. I bet this has been hitting me on the head for the last four years (at least) but when I finally realize it is a big issue for me I get to actually "listen" to everyone else's experience and learn and grow.
I am sorry you are going through it, but thanks for sharing. It is helping me so much.
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Alone22- It is remarkable how Jekyl and Hyde he is and it's all the more remarkable that I've grown so accustomed to the complete turns from him from one person to another that I don't even see how dramatic it is anymore. It's probably just as well that I don't bc I think if I fully grasped (at least right now) just how crazy it's been and how I've chosen to live with it, I'd get totally overwhelmed.
LifeRecovery- I feel the same way as you-- I go looking for others ESH when I am most struggling and I always find just what I need. And, like you, I've lived with this words instead of actions BS for so many years and it feels good to finally be seeing it for what it is.
Soaring Spirts- Exactly what you said! In the time he spent manipulating and spewing words that are unlikely to be matched with action he could have talked to a sponsor, been to a meeting etc... But he makes the choices he does and either he'll figure it out someday or he'll have the miserable life he predicted in his own letter.
MsPINK- My AH is so so so caught up (and always has been and I used to find his grandiose talk charming) in talking, in words, in grand ideas of all the things he has planned... but dare suggest he come up with one small step he can take to move toward any of these ideas and he's got every reason in the world why ACTION is impossible. It's amazing how hindsight is so clear. Even when we were dating he was full of grand plans, ideas etc... and to this day not a one of them has materialized. Lots of words and thinking and NO action. Ugh. And frankly in a lot of ways I've been the same for many years with respect to my r/s with him. I've SAID I wouldn't tolerate his behavior for years but my actions have said otherwise. Finally, better late than never, I've figured out how to make my words and actions match.
NDBT- Yes, it's totally textbook and predictable and I fully expect the nastiness to come soon... Fun fun fun.
LifeRecovery- I feel the same way as you-- I go looking for others ESH when I am most struggling and I always find just what I need. And, like you, I've lived with this words instead of actions BS for so many years and it feels good to finally be seeing it for what it is.
Soaring Spirts- Exactly what you said! In the time he spent manipulating and spewing words that are unlikely to be matched with action he could have talked to a sponsor, been to a meeting etc... But he makes the choices he does and either he'll figure it out someday or he'll have the miserable life he predicted in his own letter.
MsPINK- My AH is so so so caught up (and always has been and I used to find his grandiose talk charming) in talking, in words, in grand ideas of all the things he has planned... but dare suggest he come up with one small step he can take to move toward any of these ideas and he's got every reason in the world why ACTION is impossible. It's amazing how hindsight is so clear. Even when we were dating he was full of grand plans, ideas etc... and to this day not a one of them has materialized. Lots of words and thinking and NO action. Ugh. And frankly in a lot of ways I've been the same for many years with respect to my r/s with him. I've SAID I wouldn't tolerate his behavior for years but my actions have said otherwise. Finally, better late than never, I've figured out how to make my words and actions match.
NDBT- Yes, it's totally textbook and predictable and I fully expect the nastiness to come soon... Fun fun fun.
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My STBXAH has been threatening me to send to jail for a felony for spending money from our joint account. That I would spend 2 to 5 years in prison. There is another thread about that. Yesterday was the day he said he was going to the police department and courthouse to press charges. Of course he didn't.
Then I came home from work and noticed on the wall where I wedding picture was hanging, He took it down over a month ago and told me he threw it away, it was back up on the wall! Today when I get home I'm going to take it down and nail it on the wall in the basement where he is living.
I'm making sure he doesn't see that sometimes I am bothered by his texts. After yesterday he didn't see a reaction from me so I think he is thinking maybe if he puts the picture back up then I will try and work things out. NOT!!!
My STBXAH is definately a Jekyll and Hyde.
I mentioned the threats about the sending me to jail in this quackers thread because someone mentioned it is a good quacker!! Quack Quack Quack
Sometimes when he used to start saying crap I would sing a song out of Quack Quack Quack. He had no clue.
Then I came home from work and noticed on the wall where I wedding picture was hanging, He took it down over a month ago and told me he threw it away, it was back up on the wall! Today when I get home I'm going to take it down and nail it on the wall in the basement where he is living.
I'm making sure he doesn't see that sometimes I am bothered by his texts. After yesterday he didn't see a reaction from me so I think he is thinking maybe if he puts the picture back up then I will try and work things out. NOT!!!
My STBXAH is definately a Jekyll and Hyde.
I mentioned the threats about the sending me to jail in this quackers thread because someone mentioned it is a good quacker!! Quack Quack Quack
Sometimes when he used to start saying crap I would sing a song out of Quack Quack Quack. He had no clue.
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