Advice from Family of Alchoholics
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
I absolutely hear what you are saying kbeen; I really do.
Based on my own experience, I have found that when I made attempts at sobriety with my family being the hub of support, and if something disrupted that hub (like an argument, a job loss, insert any problematic event here], it made it that much harder to stand on my own two feet when life threw me a curveball. I always went back to the bottle. When I really began recovering, my actions were what proved that I was well on my way. My family had to get past that feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop; because it always invariably did when I didn't focus on my own sobriety and issues.
In recovery, I have learned how to handle life's curveballs. That's the truth. No matter what - I now have tools to handle everything thrown at me. That includes death, exuberant happiness, celebrations, anger, shame, depression, etc.
Sobriety to me is learning how to handle life differently in a self-reliant way, and without the bottle. Although I am AA recovered, today there are many different methods to stop the obsession (not weakness) and stop drinking.
I've also learned that you can't give until you've got. If I have no peace or trust inside of me, I can't share it because I haven't got it. Peace and trust cuts both ways for both you and your wife, as well. If she is circumspect of your sobriety attempts, I think she may have a hard time supporting you. It has nothing to do with love. I don't know your whole story, and I'm not asking you for it; but the one thing I know about stories is that there are always two sides to them.
Come on over to the Newcomers to recovery thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I hope to see you there.
Based on my own experience, I have found that when I made attempts at sobriety with my family being the hub of support, and if something disrupted that hub (like an argument, a job loss, insert any problematic event here], it made it that much harder to stand on my own two feet when life threw me a curveball. I always went back to the bottle. When I really began recovering, my actions were what proved that I was well on my way. My family had to get past that feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop; because it always invariably did when I didn't focus on my own sobriety and issues.
In recovery, I have learned how to handle life's curveballs. That's the truth. No matter what - I now have tools to handle everything thrown at me. That includes death, exuberant happiness, celebrations, anger, shame, depression, etc.
Sobriety to me is learning how to handle life differently in a self-reliant way, and without the bottle. Although I am AA recovered, today there are many different methods to stop the obsession (not weakness) and stop drinking.
I've also learned that you can't give until you've got. If I have no peace or trust inside of me, I can't share it because I haven't got it. Peace and trust cuts both ways for both you and your wife, as well. If she is circumspect of your sobriety attempts, I think she may have a hard time supporting you. It has nothing to do with love. I don't know your whole story, and I'm not asking you for it; but the one thing I know about stories is that there are always two sides to them.
Come on over to the Newcomers to recovery thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I hope to see you there.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by kbeen 
I am looking for affordable rehab facilities tonight. (no insurance)
They key is to not put things off unnecessarily, because they usually never get better, only worse, if you delay. As wellwisher suggested, hopping on over to the Alcoholism or Newcomers forums would not be a bad idea.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Kbeen,
Almost everyone who has shared information and advice at one time has already walked in your wife's shoes .... and I am certain most tried for years to use every ounce of personal energy and every waking thought dedicated to how they personally could "save" their alcoholic loved one by begging, pleading, screaming, threatening and yes even "supporting" recovery in various ways.
It simply does not work! For either party!
The constant stress, fear and need to "control and rescue" is so incredibly draining and debilitating that is destroys the codependant and makes them as sick or sicker than the alcoholic loved one.
Eventually everyone involved is on the crazy train together and the train just keeps chugging faster and faster, speeding up and careening further out of control... because alcoholism is progressive... it gets worse and worse. Everyone needs to take the cure... preferably at the same time but not necessarily together...real and authentic programs of recovery.
You haven't got a thing to lose by going to AA and your wife going to Alanon. Taking a pill won't cure you by any stretch but it might help you in the early days to avoid temptation... heck my husband would drink on antabuse and put up with feeling sick and risking serious side effects! Antabuse is not a long term solution and many palm the pills and therefore invides more codie behavior.. (I used to make him show me under his tongue and around his gums as he was a clever, sneaky drunk).
TAking a pill would be a deposit in her emotional bank account which is probably overdrawn by a couple of million dollars right now.
Commiting to meetings, getting a sponsor, reading literature, checking into rehab all are ACTIONS that would again... make deposits in emotional bank accounts. It will take a LONG time and a lot of action before trust begans to grow little green shoots of life into your relationship. It will be a long time before you build back what has been destroyed...
But if it get built... if it has REAL meaning... YOU will build it! And you will know that you cared enough to make the effort and make it real and made it LAST a Lifetime.
We do care and we do hope the best but YOU have a long way to go... may the wind be at your back!
Blessing to you and your family...
Statistically your current actions on your alcoholism have as much chance of success as my getting hit by lightning 7 times in a row during a drought... the disease is progressive, chronic and if untreated it is fatal... to everything worthwhile in life including your health and relationships.
Almost everyone who has shared information and advice at one time has already walked in your wife's shoes .... and I am certain most tried for years to use every ounce of personal energy and every waking thought dedicated to how they personally could "save" their alcoholic loved one by begging, pleading, screaming, threatening and yes even "supporting" recovery in various ways.
It simply does not work! For either party!
The constant stress, fear and need to "control and rescue" is so incredibly draining and debilitating that is destroys the codependant and makes them as sick or sicker than the alcoholic loved one.
Eventually everyone involved is on the crazy train together and the train just keeps chugging faster and faster, speeding up and careening further out of control... because alcoholism is progressive... it gets worse and worse. Everyone needs to take the cure... preferably at the same time but not necessarily together...real and authentic programs of recovery.
You haven't got a thing to lose by going to AA and your wife going to Alanon. Taking a pill won't cure you by any stretch but it might help you in the early days to avoid temptation... heck my husband would drink on antabuse and put up with feeling sick and risking serious side effects! Antabuse is not a long term solution and many palm the pills and therefore invides more codie behavior.. (I used to make him show me under his tongue and around his gums as he was a clever, sneaky drunk).
TAking a pill would be a deposit in her emotional bank account which is probably overdrawn by a couple of million dollars right now.
Commiting to meetings, getting a sponsor, reading literature, checking into rehab all are ACTIONS that would again... make deposits in emotional bank accounts. It will take a LONG time and a lot of action before trust begans to grow little green shoots of life into your relationship. It will be a long time before you build back what has been destroyed...
But if it get built... if it has REAL meaning... YOU will build it! And you will know that you cared enough to make the effort and make it real and made it LAST a Lifetime.
We do care and we do hope the best but YOU have a long way to go... may the wind be at your back!
Blessing to you and your family...
Statistically your current actions on your alcoholism have as much chance of success as my getting hit by lightning 7 times in a row during a drought... the disease is progressive, chronic and if untreated it is fatal... to everything worthwhile in life including your health and relationships.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Hmm...
This brings up a lot of thoughts for me.
I think first of all -- yes, you do have to walk that road alone. And I think I'd tell you the same thing I'd tell your wife if she came here: You can't fix your spouse. You can only fix YOU.
And you have to want to fix you for YOU. You can't want to fix you "because that's the only way my wife will not leave me" or "that's what my fiance has required in order to marry me" or "that's what my doctor says I need to do." Just like us codependents have to own our disordered thinking, so do you alcoholics.
It sucks. There's no two ways around that. I know many, many families in which I sometimes wonder who's the (mentally and emotionally) healthier one, the person drinking or their spouse.
I would tend to agree that your wife needs therapy, or Al-Anon, or some kind of help. But she needs it for herself. Not so that she can support you in the right way. And she will have to want it for herself. Not because you want it for her. The way I explained it to my AXH went something like this:
We're like two pillars holding up an entryway to a house. What's been wrong in our marriage is that I've spent my time trying to help you hold up your end -- and in the meantime, mine has fallen down. What I need to do is to go back and figure out how to hold up my end of the entryway. And what you need to do is figure out how to hold up your end on your own. We have a job to do together -- raise our children and build our family -- but we can only do that successfully if each of us does our part of the job. It doesn't mean I abandon you -- it means you have to stand steady on your own, and I need to stand steady on my own.
In my case, my AXH could not, or would not, or did not see there was a problem. I'm glad you're acknowledging the problem -- and I would gently ask your wife to take a step back and let you find your own way to recovery, if that's where you're going. And I would gently ask you to step back from her and let her find her way. It sounds to me like you, just like my AXH and I were, are sort of more focused on what the other person is doing and whether or not you get the treatment/accolades you think you deserve from each other.
You have to want recovery for yourself. I truly believe this is true whether your the addict or the codependent. You can't fix anyone else. Good luck in your recovery!
This brings up a lot of thoughts for me.
I think first of all -- yes, you do have to walk that road alone. And I think I'd tell you the same thing I'd tell your wife if she came here: You can't fix your spouse. You can only fix YOU.
And you have to want to fix you for YOU. You can't want to fix you "because that's the only way my wife will not leave me" or "that's what my fiance has required in order to marry me" or "that's what my doctor says I need to do." Just like us codependents have to own our disordered thinking, so do you alcoholics.
It sucks. There's no two ways around that. I know many, many families in which I sometimes wonder who's the (mentally and emotionally) healthier one, the person drinking or their spouse.
I would tend to agree that your wife needs therapy, or Al-Anon, or some kind of help. But she needs it for herself. Not so that she can support you in the right way. And she will have to want it for herself. Not because you want it for her. The way I explained it to my AXH went something like this:
We're like two pillars holding up an entryway to a house. What's been wrong in our marriage is that I've spent my time trying to help you hold up your end -- and in the meantime, mine has fallen down. What I need to do is to go back and figure out how to hold up my end of the entryway. And what you need to do is figure out how to hold up your end on your own. We have a job to do together -- raise our children and build our family -- but we can only do that successfully if each of us does our part of the job. It doesn't mean I abandon you -- it means you have to stand steady on your own, and I need to stand steady on my own.
In my case, my AXH could not, or would not, or did not see there was a problem. I'm glad you're acknowledging the problem -- and I would gently ask your wife to take a step back and let you find your own way to recovery, if that's where you're going. And I would gently ask you to step back from her and let her find her way. It sounds to me like you, just like my AXH and I were, are sort of more focused on what the other person is doing and whether or not you get the treatment/accolades you think you deserve from each other.
You have to want recovery for yourself. I truly believe this is true whether your the addict or the codependent. You can't fix anyone else. Good luck in your recovery!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ashland Oregon
Posts: 256
I'll add in my 2¢ worth:
This really struck home for me.
My xh (not an alcoholic) has bipolar disorder. When he wasn't taking his medicine, and ramping up, my doctor suggested I take antianxiety pills. I am not going to take medicine for his problem!
IMO, in taking that medicine, you have a choice:
a) you're taking it to appease someone else, which is a Huge Red Flag against real recovery
b) you're taking it to help yourself maintain your early recovery, with the added bonus of appeasing your wife.
b1) extra bonus points if it never kicks in.
Here's another experience of mine that may help:
I used to rage - it was my drug of choice, if you will. When I decided to quit, it took me a full year of trying, sliding, making efforts, failing notoriously on three occasions. Then it was over. I did not get, or expect, sympathy or help on my course. My reward from my now xbf was that he didn't leave me, or kick me out. That's all.
When I finally stopped, I was in a much better position to look at our relationship unclouded by my 'addiction'. What I found, unfortunately, was that he was an alcoholic, and because I'd changed, we'd changed. It could have gone the other way if both of us were not facing demons.
My suggestion for you:
FWIW, my xabf is still drinking, and has never tried sobriety. Thank you for making the start.
- Sylvie
This
What can I say do for her? The doctor recommends the drugs "to put her mind at ease". Like I say, I am willing, but I think that is covering up the real issues which I would like to address first or together with the drugs.
My xh (not an alcoholic) has bipolar disorder. When he wasn't taking his medicine, and ramping up, my doctor suggested I take antianxiety pills. I am not going to take medicine for his problem!
IMO, in taking that medicine, you have a choice:
a) you're taking it to appease someone else, which is a Huge Red Flag against real recovery
b) you're taking it to help yourself maintain your early recovery, with the added bonus of appeasing your wife.
b1) extra bonus points if it never kicks in.
Here's another experience of mine that may help:
I used to rage - it was my drug of choice, if you will. When I decided to quit, it took me a full year of trying, sliding, making efforts, failing notoriously on three occasions. Then it was over. I did not get, or expect, sympathy or help on my course. My reward from my now xbf was that he didn't leave me, or kick me out. That's all.
When I finally stopped, I was in a much better position to look at our relationship unclouded by my 'addiction'. What I found, unfortunately, was that he was an alcoholic, and because I'd changed, we'd changed. It could have gone the other way if both of us were not facing demons.
My suggestion for you:
- Only take that nasty stuff if you think it'll help you in your recovery - for real.
- Lay down your expectations, and be patient with yourself and your wife. Only your Higher Power knows what's in store for you.
- Go forward with your own recovery, and relax a little bit. Nobody's perfect, we're all just trying the best we can.
FWIW, my xabf is still drinking, and has never tried sobriety. Thank you for making the start.
- Sylvie
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Hi,
I'm known as Pelican, and I am a recovering alcoholic.
I do not have personal experience in taking the drug Antabuse for sobriety.
I do not have personal experience in using rehab for sobriety and recovery.
I do not have personal experience in using AA for sobriety and recovery.
What I do have experience in is recognizing alcoholic BS.
Your not wanting to take the Antabuse, your not wanting support from a stranger, your trying to justify your "Scientific sense of sobriety" is alcoholic BS.
I say:
You don't want to take Antabuse because you are afraid of living the rest of your life without alcohol.
You don't want support from a stranger that has experienced withdrawals and DT's and Seizures from withdrawal (like you have) because you want to keep this your dirty little family secret.
Your version of scientific sense of sobriety is BS, it is a slap in the face to the many alcoholics that have found true sobriety and recovery.
I responded initially to your first post in F&F as a wife of an alcoholic husband, with children in our home. Your drinking is the root of problems in your marriage.
Your finger pointing at your wife about her rages, still has three fingers pointing back at YOU.
You clean up your side of the street and when and IF she sees you are serious, maybe she will look at her side of the street.
I'm known as Pelican, and I am a recovering alcoholic.
I do not have personal experience in taking the drug Antabuse for sobriety.
I do not have personal experience in using rehab for sobriety and recovery.
I do not have personal experience in using AA for sobriety and recovery.
What I do have experience in is recognizing alcoholic BS.
Your not wanting to take the Antabuse, your not wanting support from a stranger, your trying to justify your "Scientific sense of sobriety" is alcoholic BS.
I say:
You don't want to take Antabuse because you are afraid of living the rest of your life without alcohol.
You don't want support from a stranger that has experienced withdrawals and DT's and Seizures from withdrawal (like you have) because you want to keep this your dirty little family secret.
Your version of scientific sense of sobriety is BS, it is a slap in the face to the many alcoholics that have found true sobriety and recovery.
I responded initially to your first post in F&F as a wife of an alcoholic husband, with children in our home. Your drinking is the root of problems in your marriage.
Your finger pointing at your wife about her rages, still has three fingers pointing back at YOU.
You clean up your side of the street and when and IF she sees you are serious, maybe she will look at her side of the street.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by Kimmieh
The hardest part for me as someone living with an alcoholic is the constant fear of him getting drunk. It seems like you are under the impression that alcoholism affects loved ones only when you are drunk, but it affects us 24/7. I never feel safe and my life is never predictable. My ABF quit drinking once for 3 months and I was able to build up some trust again until he had that one beer that you mentioned. It really only takes one beer to destroy all the trust that is so hard to regain and reclaim. As soon as that beer came into the picture, the alcohol was back and the fear as well.
You have to show her through not drinking that you mean it. You have to respect that she is angry at you and tells you that it's your problem. I get really angry, too. When you seek recovery, you have control. When she seeks to help your recovery, she has no control. It's devastating to help and support and be disappointed. This might sound odd to you, but I respect her for not bending over backwards to help you (although calling you a loser in front of your child is not acceptable).
You have to show her through not drinking that you mean it. You have to respect that she is angry at you and tells you that it's your problem. I get really angry, too. When you seek recovery, you have control. When she seeks to help your recovery, she has no control. It's devastating to help and support and be disappointed. This might sound odd to you, but I respect her for not bending over backwards to help you (although calling you a loser in front of your child is not acceptable).
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Kimmieh
The hardest part for me as someone living with an alcoholic is the constant fear of him getting drunk. It seems like you are under the impression that alcoholism affects loved ones only when you are drunk, but it affects us 24/7. I never feel safe and my life is never predictable.
They don't quite approve of my recovery methods, and they still try to bring up the past drinking at times, but I gently remind them that I have kept my word, and that it should not matter to them how I keep it. Over time, this suspicion has lessened, and these incidents rarely happen anymore.
Few can argue with observable results. My advice to the OP, and to anyone in a similar situation, is to produce observable results which no one can argue with. Your families deserve absolutely nothing less.
Kimmieh, I hope you and others in your situation find your peace.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Follow up.
Its been two years and I relapsed. I needed someone to go to and say, "Hey I had a drink, and I am afraid it is becoming a problem again. I know you don't realize this, because I have been keeping you in the dark, but I do not want to keep you in the dark because I love you. I am not looking for you to support my drinking, I am looking for you to support my quitting. In order to quit I have to go into detox and rehab, but I can not think of a lie big enough to excuse my absence for that long, and I do not want to lie to you like that. I need for you to support me by creating an environment of openness and honesty so I can tell you without retaliations and threats of violence against my daughter and I she uses my daughter to hurt me).
Luckily, she had been been getting some therapy on the side and reading some books, and when I did have a seizure because I could not do it in proper medical care, she was most supportive and took me to her parents house where we spent a week letting me recover.
For those partners of alcoholics, let it be known that support makes all the difference. It could have been over much earlier if I had known she would have handled it as she did. Granted, she was not aware that I was drinking again, and I was never abusive or violent to her, so she she had nothing to be mad about other than I was deceiving her. If it is a violent drunk I can understand the animosity.
Its been two years and I relapsed. I needed someone to go to and say, "Hey I had a drink, and I am afraid it is becoming a problem again. I know you don't realize this, because I have been keeping you in the dark, but I do not want to keep you in the dark because I love you. I am not looking for you to support my drinking, I am looking for you to support my quitting. In order to quit I have to go into detox and rehab, but I can not think of a lie big enough to excuse my absence for that long, and I do not want to lie to you like that. I need for you to support me by creating an environment of openness and honesty so I can tell you without retaliations and threats of violence against my daughter and I she uses my daughter to hurt me).
Luckily, she had been been getting some therapy on the side and reading some books, and when I did have a seizure because I could not do it in proper medical care, she was most supportive and took me to her parents house where we spent a week letting me recover.
For those partners of alcoholics, let it be known that support makes all the difference. It could have been over much earlier if I had known she would have handled it as she did. Granted, she was not aware that I was drinking again, and I was never abusive or violent to her, so she she had nothing to be mad about other than I was deceiving her. If it is a violent drunk I can understand the animosity.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hello kbeen!
I'm really sorry to hear about your relapse. I hope that you are well and that you are truly on the road to real recovery!
I am a bit concerned that you yet blame your wife for your inability to be honest with her. I'm afraid to say that your lack of honesty is fully your responsibility. Therefore, your not being able to have medical detox was because of your choice--not hers.
The lack of honesty in a marriage, if you read around 'this side' of the forums for a bit, is one of the biggest complaints that spouses have when married to an alcoholic struggling with sobriety (or not struggling, I suppose).
I totally understand wanting to keep things from a spouse because you don't want to face the wrath or the potential consequences. But the spouses of alcoholics have the right to make informed decisions about their own lives--including whether or not the alcoholics they are married to are still drinking.
I truly wish you every health and happiness as you move forward. I'm pleased to hear that your wife has sought counseling and you are seeking recovery. I hope that things continue to improve in your world.
I'm really sorry to hear about your relapse. I hope that you are well and that you are truly on the road to real recovery!
I am a bit concerned that you yet blame your wife for your inability to be honest with her. I'm afraid to say that your lack of honesty is fully your responsibility. Therefore, your not being able to have medical detox was because of your choice--not hers.
The lack of honesty in a marriage, if you read around 'this side' of the forums for a bit, is one of the biggest complaints that spouses have when married to an alcoholic struggling with sobriety (or not struggling, I suppose).
I totally understand wanting to keep things from a spouse because you don't want to face the wrath or the potential consequences. But the spouses of alcoholics have the right to make informed decisions about their own lives--including whether or not the alcoholics they are married to are still drinking.
I truly wish you every health and happiness as you move forward. I'm pleased to hear that your wife has sought counseling and you are seeking recovery. I hope that things continue to improve in your world.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Kbeen I am kind of baffled why you aren't in the alcoholics forum and why you came here to friends and family.
When you said: it is apparent that still after 2 years you want your wife to take waaaaay too much of a role in your recovery. Sorry for the directness, but I think my evaluation is not really out of line.
Telling the truth is like stepping into a hailstorm but if you need to go to rehab you need to get it over with: tell your wife you are going to rehab and go and pack your bags. The hailstones will fall on you but that, as we say in recovery, is life on life's terms. Of course it's hard to tell the truth. Learning to do so is part of recovery.
You could have used a program with that request: called a sponsor. You need a program and your wife can't be your program for you. She isn't the right person to talk to when you have a craving for a drink.
When you said:
I needed someone to go to and say, "Hey I had a drink, and I am afraid it is becoming a problem again.
Telling the truth is like stepping into a hailstorm but if you need to go to rehab you need to get it over with: tell your wife you are going to rehab and go and pack your bags. The hailstones will fall on you but that, as we say in recovery, is life on life's terms. Of course it's hard to tell the truth. Learning to do so is part of recovery.
You could have used a program with that request: called a sponsor. You need a program and your wife can't be your program for you. She isn't the right person to talk to when you have a craving for a drink.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Here and now
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by Hopeworks
Kbeen,
Almost everyone who has shared information and advice at one time has already walked in your wife's shoes .... and I am certain most tried for years to use every ounce of personal energy and every waking thought dedicated to how they personally could "save" their alcoholic loved one by begging, pleading, screaming, threatening and yes even "supporting" recovery in various ways.
It simply does not work! For either party!
The constant stress, fear and need to "control and rescue" is so incredibly draining and debilitating that is destroys the codependant and makes them as sick or sicker than the alcoholic loved one.
Eventually everyone involved is on the crazy train together and the train just keeps chugging faster and faster, speeding up and careening further out of control... because alcoholism is progressive... it gets worse and worse. Everyone needs to take the cure... preferably at the same time but not necessarily together...real and authentic programs of recovery.
Taking a pill would be a deposit in her emotional bank account which is probably overdrawn by a couple of million dollars right now.
Almost everyone who has shared information and advice at one time has already walked in your wife's shoes .... and I am certain most tried for years to use every ounce of personal energy and every waking thought dedicated to how they personally could "save" their alcoholic loved one by begging, pleading, screaming, threatening and yes even "supporting" recovery in various ways.
It simply does not work! For either party!
The constant stress, fear and need to "control and rescue" is so incredibly draining and debilitating that is destroys the codependant and makes them as sick or sicker than the alcoholic loved one.
Eventually everyone involved is on the crazy train together and the train just keeps chugging faster and faster, speeding up and careening further out of control... because alcoholism is progressive... it gets worse and worse. Everyone needs to take the cure... preferably at the same time but not necessarily together...real and authentic programs of recovery.
Taking a pill would be a deposit in her emotional bank account which is probably overdrawn by a couple of million dollars right now.
Originally Posted by lillamy
Hmm...
This brings up a lot of thoughts for me.
I think first of all -- yes, you do have to walk that road alone. And I think I'd tell you the same thing I'd tell your wife if she came here: You can't fix your spouse. You can only fix YOU.
And you have to want to fix you for YOU. You can't want to fix you "because that's the only way my wife will not leave me" or "that's what my fiance has required in order to marry me" or "that's what my doctor says I need to do." Just like us codependents have to own our disordered thinking, so do you alcoholics.
It sucks. There's no two ways around that. I know many, many families in which I sometimes wonder who's the (mentally and emotionally) healthier one, the person drinking or their spouse.
I would tend to agree that your wife needs therapy, or Al-Anon, or some kind of help. But she needs it for herself. Not so that she can support you in the right way. And she will have to want it for herself. Not because you want it for her. The way I explained it to my AXH went something like this:
We're like two pillars holding up an entryway to a house. What's been wrong in our marriage is that I've spent my time trying to help you hold up your end -- and in the meantime, mine has fallen down. What I need to do is to go back and figure out how to hold up my end of the entryway. And what you need to do is figure out how to hold up your end on your own. We have a job to do together -- raise our children and build our family -- but we can only do that successfully if each of us does our part of the job. It doesn't mean I abandon you -- it means you have to stand steady on your own, and I need to stand steady on my own.
In my case, my AXH could not, or would not, or did not see there was a problem. I'm glad you're acknowledging the problem -- and I would gently ask your wife to take a step back and let you find your own way to recovery, if that's where you're going. And I would gently ask you to step back from her and let her find her way. It sounds to me like you, just like my AXH and I were, are sort of more focused on what the other person is doing and whether or not you get the treatment/accolades you think you deserve from each other.
You have to want recovery for yourself. I truly believe this is true whether your the addict or the codependent. You can't fix anyone else. Good luck in your recovery!
This brings up a lot of thoughts for me.
I think first of all -- yes, you do have to walk that road alone. And I think I'd tell you the same thing I'd tell your wife if she came here: You can't fix your spouse. You can only fix YOU.
And you have to want to fix you for YOU. You can't want to fix you "because that's the only way my wife will not leave me" or "that's what my fiance has required in order to marry me" or "that's what my doctor says I need to do." Just like us codependents have to own our disordered thinking, so do you alcoholics.
It sucks. There's no two ways around that. I know many, many families in which I sometimes wonder who's the (mentally and emotionally) healthier one, the person drinking or their spouse.
I would tend to agree that your wife needs therapy, or Al-Anon, or some kind of help. But she needs it for herself. Not so that she can support you in the right way. And she will have to want it for herself. Not because you want it for her. The way I explained it to my AXH went something like this:
We're like two pillars holding up an entryway to a house. What's been wrong in our marriage is that I've spent my time trying to help you hold up your end -- and in the meantime, mine has fallen down. What I need to do is to go back and figure out how to hold up my end of the entryway. And what you need to do is figure out how to hold up your end on your own. We have a job to do together -- raise our children and build our family -- but we can only do that successfully if each of us does our part of the job. It doesn't mean I abandon you -- it means you have to stand steady on your own, and I need to stand steady on my own.
In my case, my AXH could not, or would not, or did not see there was a problem. I'm glad you're acknowledging the problem -- and I would gently ask your wife to take a step back and let you find your own way to recovery, if that's where you're going. And I would gently ask you to step back from her and let her find her way. It sounds to me like you, just like my AXH and I were, are sort of more focused on what the other person is doing and whether or not you get the treatment/accolades you think you deserve from each other.
You have to want recovery for yourself. I truly believe this is true whether your the addict or the codependent. You can't fix anyone else. Good luck in your recovery!
Originally Posted by Pelican
What I do have experience in is recognizing alcoholic BS.
You clean up your side of the street and when and IF she sees you are serious, maybe she will look at her side of the street.
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Hello. I am sorry for your relapse. I would like to post on the other side of this. At what point does her recovery from all of this and her feelings about how she supports you come into play? I don't ask to be harsh, I am genuinely curious about how she feels about all of this.
There is a reason that AA and other programs tell you to have a sponsor. Part of it is because you need someone to go to who can relate to what you are going through. The other part is for the spouse in my opinon. I know I was too close to the situation to be a support system to my XAH. He was bitter about that, but it was causing me a near nervous breakdown. My anxiety, fear, and bitterness went through the roof. The anxiety and fear took over my life when he would tell me how he is struggling or had "only one." Unfortunately I always knew it would become really bad, and it did. Very very very few people in life can recover on a moderation program.
If you are having seizures it is becoming quite advanced. I hope you are able to find help and truly commit yourself to seeing that "only one beer" never works. And that therapy is needed for individuals on both sides of the fence because alcoholism is a family disease that is progressive for both individuals.
Good Luck and God Bless.
There is a reason that AA and other programs tell you to have a sponsor. Part of it is because you need someone to go to who can relate to what you are going through. The other part is for the spouse in my opinon. I know I was too close to the situation to be a support system to my XAH. He was bitter about that, but it was causing me a near nervous breakdown. My anxiety, fear, and bitterness went through the roof. The anxiety and fear took over my life when he would tell me how he is struggling or had "only one." Unfortunately I always knew it would become really bad, and it did. Very very very few people in life can recover on a moderation program.
If you are having seizures it is becoming quite advanced. I hope you are able to find help and truly commit yourself to seeing that "only one beer" never works. And that therapy is needed for individuals on both sides of the fence because alcoholism is a family disease that is progressive for both individuals.
Good Luck and God Bless.
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Kbeen, I am separated from an alcoholic husband of 20 years. I agree with so many others that when you are married to an alcoholic, you feel a lot of fear and distrust. You've learned the hard way, over and over again, how insidious alcoholism is, how no matter how strong or wonderful your spouse may sound at a given moment, if he is still drinking AT ANY LEVEL and not in full acceptance of responsibility around his drinking issues, it's not under control.
I think it's admirable for you to suggest couple's counseling, but you need to understand that in her mind, drinking is the biggest problem in your marriage. It may not be the only problem. But she is learning (again, with a lot of pain) that YOU are the only one who can do anything about it. So trying to do couple's counseling now would be pointless.
Every time you suggest couple's counseling or point out how she contributes to marriage issues -- which I don't doubt that she does -- what she hears is that you are trying to deflect things away from your alcoholism because you don't really recognize your problem. The fact that you are still drinking, and that you don't understand why she got so upset over finding an empty beer can, shows that you are in a lot of denial. So why should she try to work on anything with you?
You need to address your drinking and your attitudes about it first. Period. Focus on making yourself better, don't worry about her issues. If she sees that you are doing that and that you are not looking to do it for you or with you, then maybe over time she will want to work on the issues you have together. The HUGE issue of alcohol has to shrink before she can see any other But she's afraid, and she doesn't trust you, and she has good reason to feel that way.
I think it's admirable for you to suggest couple's counseling, but you need to understand that in her mind, drinking is the biggest problem in your marriage. It may not be the only problem. But she is learning (again, with a lot of pain) that YOU are the only one who can do anything about it. So trying to do couple's counseling now would be pointless.
Every time you suggest couple's counseling or point out how she contributes to marriage issues -- which I don't doubt that she does -- what she hears is that you are trying to deflect things away from your alcoholism because you don't really recognize your problem. The fact that you are still drinking, and that you don't understand why she got so upset over finding an empty beer can, shows that you are in a lot of denial. So why should she try to work on anything with you?
You need to address your drinking and your attitudes about it first. Period. Focus on making yourself better, don't worry about her issues. If she sees that you are doing that and that you are not looking to do it for you or with you, then maybe over time she will want to work on the issues you have together. The HUGE issue of alcohol has to shrink before she can see any other But she's afraid, and she doesn't trust you, and she has good reason to feel that way.
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Originally Posted by kbeen
I was never abusive or violent to her, so she she had nothing to be mad about other than I was deceiving her. If it is a violent drunk I can understand the animosity.
I agree whole-heartedly with what everyone has said about YOU focusing on YOUR issues and YOUR recovery, and letting your wife focus on hers.
But I do think this one sentence from your update warrants comment. There is not a bright line between "violently abusive" relationships with alcoholics and every other relationship with an alcoholic, where on the "violently abusive" side the non-addicted partner has a right to animosity but in every other case the animosity is unfounded.
I am quite sure that if you asked my still-drinking alcoholic husband whether he was abusive to me, he would say no because he has never hit me. But I can assure you that he has behaved in countless ways that are absolutely abusive and I am absolutely entitled to my animosity toward him. Obviously, none of us know the details of your relationship with your wife, but I have never, NEVER known an alcoholic (particularly one engaged in a very elaborate pattern of deceit to cover drinking) whose disease didn't PROFOUNDLY impact his/her partner in a very, very negative way.
Your wife is entitled to her feelings, and is her responsibility to cope with those feelings and work through them. You standing around and judging her for not doing so, or telling her that her feelings are unfounded...well, that will only do more damage AND serve as yet another way you avoid focusing on YOURSELF and your own problems.
Edited to add: If you truly believe that your wife's dysfunctions are impeding your own recovery, then you have the choice to leave her. It is the same as those of us who are married to addicts: if our spouses' addictions and issues are making it too difficult for us to be healthy, we have the choice to leave, and to remove ourselves from the situation that is so seriously impairing our own recoveries.
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You know, it strikes me how we're all trying to talk rationally to a guy who is obviously an alcoholic, and how pointless that is. It's ironic that our jumping in to answer (I did too) to try to help is exactly that behavior we keep thinking we have detached from. But here we are, all thinking that what we say might help and make a difference. In fact, we know it won't.
Just the fact that he's come onto a board for families of alcoholics to ask for help about his wife's problems (!) tells us a lot about his not taking responsibility. And there's that thing of him admitting the stuff he "used to do" and he's not doing anything like THAT now, etc.
It all sounds so familiar and I think it's tugging at some co-dependent stuff that sucks us right in. It obviously did me, anyway.
Just the fact that he's come onto a board for families of alcoholics to ask for help about his wife's problems (!) tells us a lot about his not taking responsibility. And there's that thing of him admitting the stuff he "used to do" and he's not doing anything like THAT now, etc.
It all sounds so familiar and I think it's tugging at some co-dependent stuff that sucks us right in. It obviously did me, anyway.
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My XAH will tell you he was not abusive however he was and is a gaslighter and in the end he physically pushed me and my daughter was scared he would hit her.
Just because he does not remember it happening does not mean it did not, and luckily I have it all on video b/c a friend was there and had the mind to video it. If push ever comes to shove don't you know I will show that video to the courts in a hot second.
Just because he does not remember it happening does not mean it did not, and luckily I have it all on video b/c a friend was there and had the mind to video it. If push ever comes to shove don't you know I will show that video to the courts in a hot second.
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Originally Posted by Norasq
You know, it strikes me how we're all trying to talk rationally to a guy who is obviously an alcoholic, and how pointless that is. It's ironic that our jumping in to answer (I did too) to try to help is exactly that behavior we keep thinking we have detached from. But here we are, all thinking that what we say might help and make a difference. In fact, we know it won't.
Just the fact that he's come onto a board for families of alcoholics to ask for help about his wife's problems (!) tells us a lot about his not taking responsibility. And there's that thing of him admitting the stuff he "used to do" and he's not doing anything like THAT now, etc.
It all sounds so familiar and I think it's tugging at some co-dependent stuff that sucks us right in. It obviously did me, anyway.
Just the fact that he's come onto a board for families of alcoholics to ask for help about his wife's problems (!) tells us a lot about his not taking responsibility. And there's that thing of him admitting the stuff he "used to do" and he's not doing anything like THAT now, etc.
It all sounds so familiar and I think it's tugging at some co-dependent stuff that sucks us right in. It obviously did me, anyway.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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I think a lot of people somehow think I was looking for her to support my drinking. Couldn't be further from the truth. I wanted her support to allow me to stop instead of threatening me and my daughter. There were months that I wanted to go to detox and rehab and the only support I needed from her was to *not* turn on my little girl and say "If I ever find out your f*ing dad is drinking that is the last time you will seee either him or me, cause I don't need you! You're not my daughter anymore!" Or she takes a 2x4 to your head in front of a bawling daughter.
These things are *not* why I was drinking, they are why I found it incredibly difficult to find the time I needed to quit safely, and so I tried tapering, and tried going cold turkey, making sure I did not seizure, but I had to do it in secret.
Imagine trying to find an excuse to get away for two or three months and get help with that cloud looming over your head. The support I needed was for her to acknowledge that it was a problem that I wanted to fix. That is all.
If it was a movie where a woman had an eating disorder, and the husband called her a fat pig in front of her children everytime she had a bite of cake or icecream, or worse, beat her in front of them, he is obviously the villain in the movie. And when she tries to get help he tells her that she will fail because she is a weak looser!
Little Fish writes:
"Kbeen I am kind of baffled why you aren't in the alcoholics forum and why you came here to friends and family. When you said:"
Because while I understand most everything that people are writing in this forum, it almost sounds like most people here advocate that the husband with the wife with an eating problem going back to his buddies and saying "Yeah, I caught the b* eating icecream again." it is missing the perspective of the woman who has an eating problem who desperatly wants to do it in a safe way for both herself, and her children and family. And to do that, she needs the husband's support. Just going and talking to her thin friends and hearing their stories about weight watchers might help, but it is not enough.
It is a message that I felt is missing from this this forum which I read everyday because *I* want to know what my wife is going through. I wish she would read some of the other forums as well so we could better understand each other.
These things are *not* why I was drinking, they are why I found it incredibly difficult to find the time I needed to quit safely, and so I tried tapering, and tried going cold turkey, making sure I did not seizure, but I had to do it in secret.
Imagine trying to find an excuse to get away for two or three months and get help with that cloud looming over your head. The support I needed was for her to acknowledge that it was a problem that I wanted to fix. That is all.
If it was a movie where a woman had an eating disorder, and the husband called her a fat pig in front of her children everytime she had a bite of cake or icecream, or worse, beat her in front of them, he is obviously the villain in the movie. And when she tries to get help he tells her that she will fail because she is a weak looser!
Little Fish writes:
"Kbeen I am kind of baffled why you aren't in the alcoholics forum and why you came here to friends and family. When you said:"
Because while I understand most everything that people are writing in this forum, it almost sounds like most people here advocate that the husband with the wife with an eating problem going back to his buddies and saying "Yeah, I caught the b* eating icecream again." it is missing the perspective of the woman who has an eating problem who desperatly wants to do it in a safe way for both herself, and her children and family. And to do that, she needs the husband's support. Just going and talking to her thin friends and hearing their stories about weight watchers might help, but it is not enough.
It is a message that I felt is missing from this this forum which I read everyday because *I* want to know what my wife is going through. I wish she would read some of the other forums as well so we could better understand each other.
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