S0Confused

My GF hides drinking from me, hides bottles, lies, etc...

BUT, she never looks drunk or even buzzed?!?!

Is this any different from the other AC's? A lot of the reading I am doing speaks about their AC being drunk, violent, not responsible, etc...

My situation is so tough because unless you know what to look for, you cant even tell shes buzzed. She works out like crazy. She takes care of her child. She gets up early and takes care of the house.

Is this how it starts or are their different levels of this issue?

I am NOT trying to be naive. I am asking if what I am describing is different. I know she has a problem. Its just hard to understand because she is VERY functioning and the only thing that even showed me she had a problem were the 8 empty bottles, lying, deception, and trust issues... (all big ones).

Any clarity on this issue would be GREAT!

Thanks all

S0Confused

Also,

Can someone please be more specific about this issue:

It seems everyone says that you should run, get away from, leave, live life, dont waste your time, etc... when it comes to a relationship with Alcoholics. This seems like if Alcoholics were a horse, that we should take them out back and put them out of their misery. What hope do alcoholics have? If most people tell people who are NOT Alcoholics to stay clear of alcoholics.... How do alcoholics live a happy life? Do they marry other alcoholics? Do they ALWAYS have to go to meetings? Will they ALWAYS have this problem?

I am having such a hard time turning my back on such an amazing women who happens to have a problem. If you have some answers, please help me understand. Its almost like the woman I started to love has died because everyone suggests not giving her a chance to get well, prove herself, or get this issue under control. Is this disease so serious at ANY level of it that someone without this problem should leave no matter what?

gowest

Welcome!!

Please take time to read all the "stickies" at the top of the board, they are really informative and may help answer some of your questions.

Many of us will not tell you what to do but share our experiences of what happened to us.

Many of us were with very "high functioning" non-abusive alcoholics.

I had to walk away from a wonderful man with 3 children who I ADORED because even though he had some time in recovery (over 10 years) he couldn't stay "recovered".
He lied.
He wasn't there for me.
I saw evidence of "other" addictions. (ie- day trading/"gambling")
He had such POTENTIAL but I don't get to live with potential, I get to live with reality.

It was incredibly hard for me to accept.
Alanon helped me tremendously. I would suggest you look into meetings in your local area. Co-dependent No More is a book worth reading.

I have a family member by marriage who has had solid recovery of over 25 years. It is possible. I can't live with "possible" I have to live with what is, but that is just me.
She STILL goes to meetings.
She states that she will ALWAYS have a problem.
So yes, alcoholics have told me that they have to live their recovery everyday to stay "recovered".

Also, everybody gets their own definition of a "happy life".
It sounds like your definition includes spending quality time with someone who loves you and doesn't lie to you. There is NOTHING WRONG with wanting that for yourself.

TakingCharge999

If the addict is active yes, they lose every single person in their life.


I vote for #1 , this is how it starts.

The disease is chronic, and if untreated, progressive. There is no way around this fact.
I read they declared addiction as a brain disease recently.

Who/what helps them? 911, doctors, therapists, 12 step groups, intervention, rehab, God (if they believe there is one) but ultimately they help themselves by asking for help/accepting the help available. This can take months, years, decades.. and then there can be relapse. OR maybe they live in denial and die in denial.



Over here in the Friends and family forum, its a matter of seeing if we are OK with someone's behavior, its not only about alcohol.

Are you OK having a girlfriend that lies to you? This is who she is now, all she wants to be today.

Eight Ball

Welcome SOConfused to SR,

Firstly, does your GF even admit she has a problem with her drinking and want to get help for it? Or is that something that you want?

If yes, your GF wants to get help for her problem - then sure, support her, get help for yourself through Al-anon and give her the opportunity to prove herself etc.

If no and your GF doesn't even admit she has a problem - then can you live with her drinking, let it go, let the lying, deception and trust issues go?

Its not really about the drinking, if you have a highly functioning GF, is it? Isn't it about the lying, deception and trust issues?

For me, it was about lack of trust, lying, deception, feeling neglected, my deteriorating health and definitely the drinking! Even though I tried to 'let it go' (detach) I just couldn't and the daily drinking was just too much for me to cope with. It took 18 months of therapy for me to build up enough self esteem to be able to put my own needs, health and happiness first and this led to me eventually leaving.

If your GF doesn't admit that she has a problem and that her drinking is causing problems between you both and your relationship with regards to the lying, deceit etc then there is nothing you can do. I have tried the crying, screaming, shouting, pleading, talking quietly, telling my AH how my feelings were being hurt, sleeping in the spare room and leaving and nothing has worked. This really is when most of us get tired of staying, particularly when nothing changes or things get worse.

Coincidentally, since I have left my AH, he has told me that he has reached his rock bottom, knows that he has to find sobriety for the rest of his life and is currently getting help through therapy, AA and SR. He has been sober for two weeks, its very early days and only time will tell how serious he is. I will watch from afar.

Sorry, just read your other post and see that your GF admits that she has a problem and has attempted rehab.

At the moment, my AH of 23yrs and I are separated due to his drinking. lying, deceit etc and I am living on my own for the first time in my life (45yrs). I went no contact with him for two months but finally met with him last month. As I have said above, he is currently sober but very early days and I am still attending therapy etc to make sure that I continue to look after me whilst he attends to his recovery. We still have all the lying, deceit and lack of trust issues to deal with, but that can wait. At the moment he has enough to do, just learning to be sober and remaining that way.

Terminally Unique

I'm going to respond here as a someone who was formerly dependent on alcohol.

There was once a time when I could be drunk and only the very astute could notice. I eventually lost this "skill," however.

By quitting and resuming life as someone who doesn't drink.

Some do, some don't.

I don't have to go to meetings.

If they continue to drink, most will. I have no problems caused by alcohol, however, because I never drink.

Trust your own instincts over the advice of anonymous people on the Internet who do not have a vested interest. This includes my own advice.

I believe there are times when leaving is warranted, but I am not one to tell another when that is. That said, neither do I believe in automatically leaving. Again, trust your own instincts.

Tuffgirl

Soconfused - you sound very confused! I've been in your shoes...its hard when you first come to terms with your situation and realize you really have no idea what to do next.

I suggest you read as much as you can on addictions and alcoholism before you make any decisions or do any actions. There are lots of good books out there...just search on amazon.

And be careful to judge the posts you read here. Not all of us have left our alcoholics. Some of us remain married and/or in a relationship. Some of us have left in haste because the situation was dangerous or detrimental to our families. Some of us have loved ones actively seeking recovery and we are being as supportive as we can. Some of us are in the midst of divorcing and/or leaving and working hard to untangle our lives.

There is no one answer to your questions, as everyone's life paths are different, even with similarities. But it is obvious to me that you are coming to the realization that this is a far bigger change to the relationship you thought you were having. Welcome to our lives. Keep coming back...I hope this forum gives you the information and support it has given me.

~T

LittleApple

SoConfused,
My AW is also a highly functional and I'm struggling with the idea of that the only solution is to leave her. When does life get so difficult that the good of being with her out weigh the negatives (lying, isolation, lack of trust, etc.).

Have you discussed this with her? Any healthy relationship is going to allow for open discussion even when neither party is an alcoholic.

I would just recommend to not rush into ant decisions but take your time and research alcoholism and what a relationship with a possible alcoholic will do to you.

Thumper

Welcome to SR. Sorry you found yourself in the situation that brought you here. You are smart for coming. One of the best things to do right now is to take a deep breath, learn some stuff, and work on yourself.

So breath, exhale, and practice ways to calm and relax yourself. You'll never regret that!

Then read read read. The stickies at the top are good. SR is good. If you are interested in learning more about the stages of alcoholism read through Jellinek's Stages of Alcoholism It is an eye opener.

Take care of yourself. I found al-anon, SR feedback (stickies at the top are also great), counseling, and the book Co-Dependent No More to be among the key things that helped me. I needed to learn how to focus on me, face reality, establish boundaries, protect boundaries and values, etc.

And to answer your question more directly - my husband was a lot like your wife when I married him - and further down the path of alcoholism when I divorced him. They often refer to alcoholics and their spouses as being on a Merry-Go-Round or Dancing. When we are spinning on a merry go round or dancing frantic and fast, being spun by an out of control partner, we sometimes feel like we can't let go. We are sick with the dizzyness and the fear of one of us getting hurt - so we hold on even tighter. The taking care of yourself part is about giving you tools to step off the dance floor or merry go round. That doesn't mean leaving your spouse, that just means steadying yourself and finding solid ground. Giving ourselves clarity and balance so we can think. That looks different to different people and at different times in our own lives even.

StarCat

I'm glad you found us, confused. I am also sorry you felt the need to look - living with an active alcoholic is a roller coaster ride of emotions.

The only things that seem to be consistent when dealing with active alcoholics is:
1. An alcoholic either progresses in the disease, or stops drinking.
2. An alcoholic cannot stop drinking for real until they want to stop drinking.
3. Each person is responsible for their own choices and decisions, and nobody else's. This means that we don't make the alcoholic drink, it's not our fault - and we can't make them stop. This also means that our crazy learned behaviors to the alcoholic's behaviors and drinking are not the alcoholic's fault, either.


I just want to add to Tuffgirl's post, everyone's situation is different.
In my case, I left the alcoholic in my life, because he was also extremely controlling and abusive, and as the drinking was escalating so was the abuse.
The night I left, he was tearing apart the apartment, throwing his belongings, my belongings, and then starting in on the furniture. He tried to throw a rather heavy chair at me - fortunately he was too drunk to be able to pick it up or aim it, but I could see the intentions in his eyes.
I left in such a hurry, I managed to grab my keys but left my cell phone at home. I spent the night at work, and found this forum.
That is my story. I was not safe there. It was accelerating rapidly, and who knows what direction it would have taken.

Would I have stayed if he had been a "happy drunk" rather than an abusive one?
I don't know. That's not my story, that's not my history, I have no idea what it is like to live with a happy alcoholic, because mine was more the abusive/paranoid type, where everyone was after him, and everything was my fault.
I don't know what someone else would do in their own situations, I just know that in mine, it wasn't safe to stay. I had to leave if I wanted to live - not in the sense that he was going to come after me with kitchen knives next, he wasn't to that point yet, but because all the verbal and emotional abuse had torn me down so badly that I had already attempted to end everything myself on four separate occasions in four different manners, and was already making plans for my next attempt.
My situation was not healthy.


You need to decide for you what you are ready to do, what you feel is the right thing to do, and whether or not it is healthy enough for you to continue the way you are, and if not, what needs to change.
We can't give you the answers. All we can do is offer support, acceptance, and understanding.
In the meantime, the most important thing for you to do is to educate yourself - about alcoholism, and about recovery for those who are affected by someone else's drinking.
Al-Anon has been a lifesaver for me. I highly recommend it.

Tatertot

Hello, SoConfused!

Your questions are very valid and remind me a lot of me when I first logged on here over a year ago. I had the same notions of you along the lines of "Why do they even bother recovering if no one is going to give them a chance?"

When I first posted about my indecision about whether to start dating a guy in recovery I was also basically told to run far and run fast. What I didn't understand at the time was what some of the people here had been through... some people have been through pure hell living with either an active alcoholic or even a recovered alcoholic that didn't "recover" the way they wanted that person to. After reading many of their stories, I now understand. If you run through a fire and get third degree burns, wouldn't you also tell everyone you knew who was contemplating running through a fire, NOT TO DO IT?

I understand that now, but I still had to make my own decisions at the time. I (probably foolishly) decided to go against the advice given to me here and I gave the guy a chance. I had only ever known him in recovery... I never knew him as an active alcoholic/addict. And now I have been in the best, most honest, loving, and wonderful relationship of my life for the past 14 months.

So I would say that not all horses have to be taken out back to be shot... some do recover, however the willingness has to be there on their part. Thankfully for me, my BF didn't know me when he decided to go to rehab, so I KNOW he didn't do it for me... he had reached his own bottom and decided to get clean/sober... he did it for himself and he continues to do it for himself. He has almost 2.5 years clean/sober now and yes he still continues to go to meetings, at least 2 - 3 a week. This doesn't bother me at all since I am also busy about 4 nights/week with my own interests/activities. His recovery is his. I attend meetings when he asks me to and I support him needing to spend time with "newcomers" as that is where he excels... in fact he is the most "in demand" person for people to do their step 5 with... lol...

Anyway not sure if this has helped you, but you just need to keep in mind where people are coming from when they give you advice. Everyone here is well meaning and have big hearts. I value them and their opinions but ultimately it's my life and they are my decisions to make. Nobody will hold anything against you if you decide to forge your own path, or if you decide NOT to shoot the horse, lol!



T

Thumper

I wanted to add one more thing. I hope this doesn't come off as condescending or the wrong way.

I can't say to you that you should leave right now because that is a decision for you only. Honestly - I recently realize i don't really regret the early years with my xah. We had a lot of fun and a lot of really good memories were made. Those years of my life were not wasted. They were maybe not perfect, and I was in denial, but they were some of the best of my life. I did stay way to long because I was spinning wildly in that 'dance' I mentioned previously but I've learned a lot since then.

To the point of this second post - What I do regret is having a family with him. I do not regret my children in anyway of course but I regret not being more mindful of who I picked to be their father. I did not grasp that addiction eventually takes everything, including childhoods. They are paying a price now that they will continue to pay every day of their life. I regret that - deeply.

So I will veer away from sharing and offer some advice. Be cautious and do not add children into the mix when active addiction is present.

S0Confused

WOW, look at all of these replies. Thank you all. Here is more of my situation:


My GF has checked HERSELF into rehab and has been there for 11 days now. She recognizes the problem and cries to me about how sick she is that something like this took her over. She was NEVER mean, angry, upset, loud, or really anything out of the ordinary. Actually, she is VERY loving. As a matter of fact, it was only 1 situation that made me look into her being an alcoholic and that situation was when we went to a restaurant and we both ordered 2 drinks with our meal, she could barely walk straight when we left and I accused her of taking something like a pill. It turns out that she had already hid having a drinks before we left the house.

Anyway, She sought out help herself.... She has embraced the help that rehab is giving her and seems to be extremely set in her recovery. She said that in her rehab, there are people who are so bad and so lost into their Alcoholism or Drug Abuse that she never wants to be like them and the thought that alcohol did this to her makes her sick to even think about drinking again.

I know that people will say anything, but I am trying to show that SHE IS wanting help. She is NOT making excuses. She understands that she can never drink again. She can walk out of this NASTY state run rehab at any moment (she is there with her daughter) and she refuses to quit and made a commitment to herself, her daughter, and me to complete this course and get her life on track.

I am not skewing this in any way. This is how her situation has gone down.

So, do I put her out to pasture??? Do I allow her the CHANCE to prove that she understands her problem and WANTS to recover and get her life back? Many people seem to say "RUN" and I can see why... they are in denial, they have fell off the wagon over and over, they are violent, mean, etc...

Its almost like her issue was caught only months after it started and I hear people say: The addict needs to recognize the issue and admit there is a problem before it gets worse or there is no hope.

Im having a hard time up and leaving such a loving person who recognized her problem and who is doing something about it on her own. Do early progression alcoholics who understand the disease and who want help deserve a chance??? Or, is this disease so bad that I should just leave and give up before it gets worse?

Sorry for rambling. Im just sick inside. Thank you all

S0Confused

Also,

She is already talking about going to meetings and hopefully being healthy enough to help others with this problem because it happened so quickly and blindsided her so fast that she wants to turn this negative into a positive. This could all be just BULL, but with all of the things she is doing and saying on her own... how can I dismiss her without letting her prove to herself and the rest of us that she is truly ready for recovery.

m1k3

A couple of things here to help you out. Try going to some al-anon meetings. They will help you deal with your issues over her alcoholism. And trust me, you have issues or you wouldn't be here. The next is let her own her own recovery. You couldn't control the drinking and you can't control the recovery, let it happens as it happens. Last, do you have to make a decision right now. It's your choice of course but maybe if you do some work on yourself you will be in a better position to decide where you want to go from there.

Your friend,

Thumper

You don't have to leave if you don't want to and shouldn't feel pressured to do so. Don't worry about what other people do - do whatever feels right in this moment. You don't have to map out your whole life or have a crystal ball to read the future - just do the next right thing for yourself.

Start going to al-anon and work on your own recovery and the rest will fall into place. Al-anon is for sure not going to tell you to leave her. Al-anon doesn't focus on her at all, it focuses on you. We can not predict or control what others do, only what we can do for ourselves - so focus on that.

Freedom1990

Listen to Mike. Alanon has been a lifesaver for him and many others here, myself included.

No decision needs to be made today.

Seek out the face-to-face support in Alanon.

Sending you hugs of support.

MTSlideAddict

Alcoholism is a progressive disease if untreated. Feel proud that she has admitted to the problem and is going to rehab. I suggest you educate yourself in the disease, as well as codependency and enabling. It doesn’t hurt to have the education. Al-anon wouldn’t be a bad idea for you either. I cannot tell you exactly what to do in your situation. You should follow your own instinct as to whether or not to leave. It is very difficult to know what is the right thing to do; whether to listen to your heart or your mind.

I can tell you a bit as to my situation, however, as my husband and I are still together. It has been a bumpy ride, but I have been there throughout it all. My husband (or boyfriend at the time) had been a functioning alcoholic at one point too. It started with casual social drinking, to heavy drinking at parties almost every weekend. I confronted him, and he admitted he had a problem. After trying to stay away from alcohol for a while, he gave in and stated that he would drink only beer and wine; no liquor. I was naïve and thought it would be okay. For years he apparently lied and had liquor bottles hidden, but still continued in everyday activities as normal. He hid in well for nearly four years. It began to show, however, shortly after our wedding to where he could no longer keep up the charade. He frequently would become intoxicated, and made excuses to go off on his own. He began to miss work. Later it would become to where he blacked out for days, became verbally abusive, and most recently attempted suicide. He is in recovery now, with a great mind to stay sober. The difference between my husband and your GF is that she sought out the professional help early on.

I too battled with the non-stop questions, “should I leave or stay?” “Should I follow my heart or my mind?” “What if (this or that)?” The truth is those question will make you insane. You have to live in the right now, and ask yourself if your current situation is acceptable to you. I stood by my husband despite what people suggested. Sometimes I do not know why I had stayed with him throughout, but I just was not ready to leave. I was definitely getting closer to my breaking point, however, and this is now his last chance, as I feel strong enough to know that I no longer want to live my life with an active alcoholic. Life is good today with my recovering AH. Find out what your boundaries are, and assess your situation today.

S0Confused

Thank you for that VERY insightful answer. Everyone here is so helpful.

If anyone else would like to answer my concerns on this page, i would great appreciate it. The fact that it is so mild at the moment and she is willing to get help on her own... is driving me crazy.

I am retired at 35 and I built my life because i wanted to enjoy it with someone special. I am not sure my life will suit her and it MAY not even be possible without me changing my life plan, which would not be fair to me for all of the hard work i put in.

LaTeeDa

Many people, myself included, agonized over the decision to leave or stay. What I found out later is that I was trying to make a decision based on a lot of things that had nothing to do with reality.

Awareness-->Acceptance-->Action

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to figure out the right action without acceptance. That is what being in the present is all about.

You've got what you've got right now. Is it acceptable to you, for now? In other words, don't make your decisions based on what might happen. There is no way to know. Don't leave because things might get worse. Don't stay because things might get better.

L