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Recovery & Boundries = Good, In today's world= Dateless

Old 08-14-2011, 10:17 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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This is coming from a 44 year old women who has been married 21 years and married her high school sweetheart.... OMGosh no wonder the dating world is all messed up these days. Seems like our culture lacks any consistency on this and leaves everyone guessing what is the right thing to do. Personally I feel if he asked you out then he should pay, but I have no issue with a women wanting to pay half if she feels like it. For it to be asked of her to pay seems odd to me and if that is what the man wants then he should be up front about it when he asked her out. What if she couldn't afford half? It is a DATE not two friends out for a chat. I think it was rude of him to ask and his response very rude. After the first date I am not certain how I feel.

Lord I pray rehab is the answer for my RAH... I sure as heck don't want to date again!... lol
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:49 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I'm a 50 yo guy, recovering alcoholic. I would never dream of letting a woman pay for the first date, or even split it. Not in a million effing years. If we became an item that would be different. FWIW, I have only date one woman that made even half of what I made - and she made about double what I made - and I still insisted on paying. I guess I am old fashioned.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:58 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by KittyP View Post
Wow! I guess this might be a cultural thing but to be quite honest I think your attitude is unacceptable. Sure, he asked you out and chose the place but contributing the tip to the meal he was paying for was only fair. Tbh, I think it's very rude not to have offered to have paid your own way in the first place.

Don't you get that you were guilty of what you are accusing him of. He wasn't freeloading off of you by asking you to make a small contribution to the meal you had, but by expecting him to pay for all of your meal you were, in fact, freeloading off of him. I know you didn't intend it as such, but it's kind of hypocritical.

Tbh, the very first thing I thought of when I read that he asked you to pay for the tip, was that he was checking to see if you were the kind of woman who expects him to pay for everything because he was sick of being taken advantage of.
Maybe it is hypocritical of me, maybe it isn't. This is a boundary of mine and always will be. If someone insists he take me on a dinner date when I first suggest just doing appetizers, then I take that as him treating me. When I've asked people to dinner, I pay everything. I have never backslided and asked them to pitch in. If I wanted to go out to dinner with him and he only wanted to do appetizers, then I would have suggested us each paying our halves. I have strict boundries with men and money because I have come across a good many that do take advantage. Dating is different for everyone.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:22 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dgillz View Post
I'm a 50 yo guy, recovering alcoholic. I would never dream of letting a woman pay for the first date, or even split it. Not in a million effing years. If we became an item that would be different. FWIW, I have only date one woman that made even half of what I made - and she made about double what I made - and I still insisted on paying. I guess I am old fashioned.
A first date is different than any subsequent dates, I agree!
If I'm asked on a "date," I'd expect him to pay, since he asked.
If the arrangement would be something other than that, I would want to know up front.

XABF drained my bank accounts enough, and I'm still working on paying off the debt that was racked up in my name. I have enough to afford what I want to do, certainly... By the same token, I don't want to be viewed as a source of money for anything by anybody. I don't want to repeat that cycle again.
That said, I have no objecting to splitting bills or even paying completely myself, as long as it's set up in advance and I have a choice to say no to paying and/or no to attending. I didn't have that with XABF, not without all the emotional abuse and manipulation that he'd put into play to get what he wants.

I go out to dinner with a friend of mine on a semi-regular basis, and we typically split the bill, at least within ~$5. She paid once (we went for a long drive together in my car to run an errand for her, so it was in lieu of gas money), and I paid once (I wanted to try the tasting menu somewhere, and knew it would be more fun with a friend - only fair that I pay since it was well outside our usual budget, and I was picking what we'd order).

In the beginning with XABF we would take turns paying for things, but as time went on he'd schedule more than we could afford, "inform" me of what I was to pay for, and start a very emotionally traumatizing abusive tirade whenever I tried to put on the brakes for the spending.
This is not something I intend to repeat.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:22 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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dgillz thanks.. hope more men were "old fashioned"
The first date.. isnīt that where you got to behave your BEST..?


In my culture ... men are supposed to pay... because they are the PROVIDERS even if she has work and earns more, that is HER money, men should pay the house and the cars and the restaurants and the holidays and.. if she feels like it.. she might pay for something little every now and then. Supposedly.. men have to pay, because the women already invested in their clothes, shoes, makeup and because its the manīs pleasure to be in company of a woman............

Well, that is what the therapist said, lol. And over here, many women pull it off, and they get houses and condos and cars... the therapistīs daughter is treated that way, although the guy is from Holland where there is a matriarchy...
Therapist says men like to feel like MEN.


Anyway, now talking about manners... asking to eat your leftovers??? I donīt know I am one of those that doesn't like to waste food if I can avoid it but really??

This made me remember another anecdote with last EX... we liked crepes.. I always ordered mine with cheese only..

Well, he asked if they could put the ham that would otherwise be in my crepe, to his crepe...

I donīt know. Its just wrong. "Whatever you have that I can take, I will take"



I am not dating but I got a good friend and he comes to my house, leaves me here (and waits until I opened the door to my house to leave), invites me the movies (I invite the drinks and food and its more or less even) and we have a good time... its not that hard... I also dislike those guys who wonīt go get you, and even ask for you to go get THEM...


Oh oh, another rant: I dislike it when people spend their time texting and adding facebook updates when they are with you. There is the normal call, or urgent text or whatever but when they do it all the time...dates and friends.. thanks, but that also makes me avoid them in the future.... very very VERY disrespectful.




Thanks for letting me vent today, again.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:32 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Wow. Just....wow. Do you folks genuinely believe that asking a date to pick up the tip on a $100 dinner bill is a boundary violation? It may or may not be polite, depending on one's perspective/age/culture, but I just don't see how it's a violation of any boundary, or how it warrants acting so offended that the person never wants to see you again.

Sheesh.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:01 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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I dunno what I think anymore about the dating world lol. I zig and someone's zag's. A good relationship is like trying to find the holy grail or something. But I was just thinking that boy, I wish people would fuss over me like we fuss over A's or men that jerk us around. Sqeaky wheel gets the grease, right? Ahhhh

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Old 08-14-2011, 09:46 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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A male friend arrived late to the airport when I came from a holiday... I had been flying for too much time... 3 airplanes.. was exhausted... then he couldn't wake up half an hour earlier so I wouldn't wait for him?

Normally... its half an hour... not a big deal. Or regarding the OP... it was $10. Not a big deal either.

But being more aware about how much I have given and how much I have received... tends to make you react to what otherwise would be "small things" ....

Because if I invite someone out I like to pay, and pay the tip too, and have fun and its my pleasure and I won't eat what the other person is having. And I will pay the valet parking and take the friend home too if I am driving. And wait until they open the door and I am sure they are safe.

And when I go get someone from the airport or bus station I put 2 alarms and arrive an hour before the planned arrival time so the person does not have to wait any more minute, I know they arrive tired.

I guess its normal to hang out with people willing to behave the same ways towards me, at minimum?

For some men its something to be proud of, to be able to pay, to be generous.

Anyway, I haven't dated in a while and am in a social anxiety period currently, so I don't have these problems nowadays ... lol
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:47 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Lots of good perspective on here. For the record, I have no problem going dutch if there's a second, third, fourth date - or paying in turns.

In this instance, the person upped the ante from lunch to dinner, chose the restaurant ($100 is a chunk of change - this wasn't a diner) and ate twice as much as his date.

I recently had a birthday dinner (my birthday) with a girlfriend who isn't working - she asked how I wanted to celebrate and I suggested a girls' dinner. When the check came, I made it my treat. I am working - and my gift was that I had a great evening with my lovely friend. When she finds a job, she can treat me if she wants to but I was happy to pay.

I don't expect to be paid for by a man - but if I suggest lunch and the other person insists on dinner and then eats a three-course meal (male, female, whoever) then it's polite for them to pay for the meal.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:17 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Again, this may be a question of politeness. Maybe it was rude, and maybe not. I personally do not think so. I would have thrown down a twenty and not thought a thing of it. But if others have a different take on the etiquette of the situation, I'll accept that.

However, not to beat this to death, the notion that this action on his part was a boundary violation, "unhealthy", and evidence that an entire cohort of people need to be in recovery, is over the top and is exactly the sort of black and white, reactionary thinking that prevents the formation of healthy relationships based on give and take.

I understand that the essence of unhealthy codependency involves over-caring and over-concern about others to the point where we neglect ourselves. But it does not follow that healthy behavior consists of the opposite, where we set up barricades to separate ourselves from others, judge them mercilessly and declare that they are "sick" if they don't meet our expectations perfectly. In my view, when we do this sort of thing we end up in pretty much the same place as we did in our codependency: alone.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:08 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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I am 41 and raised in the deepest of the deep south. I expect a man to pay when he asks me out on a date. Including the tip. I think that guy was showing his selfishness when he asked you to leave the tip.

If you had offered and he had smiled and taken you up on it, and thanked you, that would be different, but he was trying to make you do something, and I consider it bad manners at a minimum and possibly manipulative.
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