What are the real symptoms?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
drinking every day
drinking when stressed and depressed
trying to drink covertly, eg. having a glass of wine before dinner with me around, but placing the glass on the floor between the coffee table and the couch so it is *less* noticeable
hiding a stash of alcohol, later denying he was *hiding* "it was just a convenient place to store it!"...then later..."it was because I was *accommodating you because you don't like alcohol, but it doesn't indicate a problem"
drinking after I went to bed or on the way to and from work (wine in his to go coffee cups)
lying about drinking
diminishing his use
denying
becoming angry and defensive about it
insisting, angrily that it is under control, and by the way, do I have to be so controlling?
upon confrontation becoming shut down, angry, hurt, morose, fatalistic, bitter, and hopeless
btw, my XAH was a wonderful partner and never had (that I know of) a single negative effect from his drinking. He never appeared drunk, his behavior didn't change for the worse when he drank, he seemed to be a safe driver, he was a great partner in many respects. Still, the above was enough for me.
drinking when stressed and depressed
trying to drink covertly, eg. having a glass of wine before dinner with me around, but placing the glass on the floor between the coffee table and the couch so it is *less* noticeable
hiding a stash of alcohol, later denying he was *hiding* "it was just a convenient place to store it!"...then later..."it was because I was *accommodating you because you don't like alcohol, but it doesn't indicate a problem"
drinking after I went to bed or on the way to and from work (wine in his to go coffee cups)
lying about drinking
diminishing his use
denying
becoming angry and defensive about it
insisting, angrily that it is under control, and by the way, do I have to be so controlling?
upon confrontation becoming shut down, angry, hurt, morose, fatalistic, bitter, and hopeless
btw, my XAH was a wonderful partner and never had (that I know of) a single negative effect from his drinking. He never appeared drunk, his behavior didn't change for the worse when he drank, he seemed to be a safe driver, he was a great partner in many respects. Still, the above was enough for me.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5
There are many alcoholics that manifest the same behaviors as you have described.
My AH adamantly denied any problems with alcohol for years, but his behavior was odd and inappropriate every evening. His speech patterns and personality changed in unpleasant ways. He made many unexplained errands and always seemed a little too buzzed after these trips. I strongly suspected for years he was an alcoholic, he always denied excessive drinking, In time, my beliefs were validated when I eventually found out he had been hiding and lying about how much he was drinking for years - and for me, that is when I knew for sure he was an alcoholic. It turns out he put a huge effort into covering his tracks, making sure his excessive alcohol consumption was kept a secret - all because he knew I would not tolerate living with an alcoholic.
When you know someone really well, it is much easier to distinguish changes that seem strange and baffling - compared to what an outsider might perceive. It is a game I lived unhappily with for years. I wished I would have trusted my instincts earlier.
My AH adamantly denied any problems with alcohol for years, but his behavior was odd and inappropriate every evening. His speech patterns and personality changed in unpleasant ways. He made many unexplained errands and always seemed a little too buzzed after these trips. I strongly suspected for years he was an alcoholic, he always denied excessive drinking, In time, my beliefs were validated when I eventually found out he had been hiding and lying about how much he was drinking for years - and for me, that is when I knew for sure he was an alcoholic. It turns out he put a huge effort into covering his tracks, making sure his excessive alcohol consumption was kept a secret - all because he knew I would not tolerate living with an alcoholic.
When you know someone really well, it is much easier to distinguish changes that seem strange and baffling - compared to what an outsider might perceive. It is a game I lived unhappily with for years. I wished I would have trusted my instincts earlier.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
It made me feel crazy, for sure, and like I was paranoid or imagining things. My AH was never falling down drunk or shaking or sweating. He dressed well and was well groomed. He looked successful. People love my husband and are always telling me what a wonderful guy he is. But I began dreading nights and weekends. It all crept up on me ---- was I imagining this?
At home, he would be moody or sometimes laugh really hard at things, over-enunciating his words and speaking with a different rhythm. He'd "fall asleep" on the couch in front of the DVD (he insisted on staying up late and "relaxing" even on a work night; it was not unusual for him to start a movie at 11:30 pm) and wake up at 3am and shuffle off to bed, walking loudly down the hall like there weren't 5 other people sleeping. If I woke him he was very disoriented and would often blurt words out loudly. He snores very loudly after drinking and a nudge or poke doesn't stop it. He would smell bad, hard to describe but smelled like old garlicky salami in the mornings; the kids would joke about how bad our bedroom smelled in the morning. I often found the smell nauseating. Now he is gone (we're newly separated), I notice the bedroom smells fresh when I wake up. His breath had a funny odor, kind of medicinal; his skin smelled strange.
He would totally forget conversations we'd had in the evening, or plans we'd discussed. Sometimes really important conversations. I'd chalk it up to him being tired or his "absentminded professor" personality. I would have to remind him multiple times (via email mostly, more effective in writing) about school events or appointments or he'd forget. I would meet him outside the school auditorium armed with mints because often I thought I smelled alcohol on his breath. I was so embarassed that people would smell it. He'd insist he'd had a garlicky meal at lunch. I didn't sign him up to chaperone overnight school camping trips because I did not trust him not to sneak a drink somehow.
The only days he did not drink was when he was in bed with the flu. We used to be very social and have a lot of BBQs and parties; that stopped a years ago because he'd get quite drunk. We'd go to a social event and I'd ask him to be the designated driver, but could not trust him to be that because he'd drink anyway, so even as the DD I never drank. I noticed cases of beer being bought "because it was a good deal" and stored in his tool shed. I realized he had an elaborate system of keeping the same case re-filled, quietly taking empties off in his car trunk and putting new beer bottles back in the case. He kept a cooler in the tool shed, too, filling it with beer and ice at the start of the weekend. He'd dispense his beer into a thermal coffee mug. He put beer in the same mug when he drove home from work in the evenings. He kept beer at work.
He drank copious amount of wine at night but always left a glass half full. My morning routine included picking up this half full glass of wine in the family room. I'd stop by his offices (self employed) and he'd sort of block me in the doorway to his office, acting distant, saying he was "really busy" (drinking at 4pm in his office). I noticed the weird smell there, too, but he had incense and oils to cover it up. He would come home at 8pm (after working so hard all day) moody and angry. I thought it was me, that he was out of love with me, or having an affair, or deeply depressed. On Sundays he'd often leave to drive the 3 miles to his office to grab the Sunday paper delivered there. He might not return home for hours. He seemed sober when he came home, and said he was "catching up" but now I know he was drinking. He'd come home sullen and angry.
I never knew when he'd be happy or mellow or mad and angry at me. It was subtle. No yelling, no screaming, just the cold shoulder and being stonewalled. He'd come home from some work event (say, celebrating an employee's birthday) and he would slur his words. I knew he'd driven intoxicated many times. He insisted he was not intoxicated. He'd get very angry and defensive when I talked to him about my concerns, saying it was all in my imagination and that "I've been doing this for years." (Um, no, or I wouldn't have married you and made babies with you dude!). He'd tell me "needs to relax." If pushed he'd say "I drink because I'm under a lot of stress" or "because you stress me out." He'd assure me all was well. Our lives were good, and wasn't the fact that he pulled down over a million dollars last year good enough for me?
Even after being confronted with all this and the demise of our marriage, he says that "I know I was overdoing it, but I'm not an alcoholic." His father was an end-stage alcoholic who literally drank himself into the grave.
Alcohol is a subtle mistress. It has taken me years to see how it has crept into my husband's heart. I found that once I really started looking at things with open eyes (not hopeful ones), I saw the sad truth. From that point on, things came to a head very quickly. I found booze everywhere, flasks, vodka, beer, wine. It was like a giant jigsaw puzzle and all the pieces, all the little questions and mysteries about my husband suddenly fit together and the story made sense. THAT is when I knew I was not going crazy.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it. That's up to him if he's willing. I can only make decisions for myself and our kids.
At home, he would be moody or sometimes laugh really hard at things, over-enunciating his words and speaking with a different rhythm. He'd "fall asleep" on the couch in front of the DVD (he insisted on staying up late and "relaxing" even on a work night; it was not unusual for him to start a movie at 11:30 pm) and wake up at 3am and shuffle off to bed, walking loudly down the hall like there weren't 5 other people sleeping. If I woke him he was very disoriented and would often blurt words out loudly. He snores very loudly after drinking and a nudge or poke doesn't stop it. He would smell bad, hard to describe but smelled like old garlicky salami in the mornings; the kids would joke about how bad our bedroom smelled in the morning. I often found the smell nauseating. Now he is gone (we're newly separated), I notice the bedroom smells fresh when I wake up. His breath had a funny odor, kind of medicinal; his skin smelled strange.
He would totally forget conversations we'd had in the evening, or plans we'd discussed. Sometimes really important conversations. I'd chalk it up to him being tired or his "absentminded professor" personality. I would have to remind him multiple times (via email mostly, more effective in writing) about school events or appointments or he'd forget. I would meet him outside the school auditorium armed with mints because often I thought I smelled alcohol on his breath. I was so embarassed that people would smell it. He'd insist he'd had a garlicky meal at lunch. I didn't sign him up to chaperone overnight school camping trips because I did not trust him not to sneak a drink somehow.
The only days he did not drink was when he was in bed with the flu. We used to be very social and have a lot of BBQs and parties; that stopped a years ago because he'd get quite drunk. We'd go to a social event and I'd ask him to be the designated driver, but could not trust him to be that because he'd drink anyway, so even as the DD I never drank. I noticed cases of beer being bought "because it was a good deal" and stored in his tool shed. I realized he had an elaborate system of keeping the same case re-filled, quietly taking empties off in his car trunk and putting new beer bottles back in the case. He kept a cooler in the tool shed, too, filling it with beer and ice at the start of the weekend. He'd dispense his beer into a thermal coffee mug. He put beer in the same mug when he drove home from work in the evenings. He kept beer at work.
He drank copious amount of wine at night but always left a glass half full. My morning routine included picking up this half full glass of wine in the family room. I'd stop by his offices (self employed) and he'd sort of block me in the doorway to his office, acting distant, saying he was "really busy" (drinking at 4pm in his office). I noticed the weird smell there, too, but he had incense and oils to cover it up. He would come home at 8pm (after working so hard all day) moody and angry. I thought it was me, that he was out of love with me, or having an affair, or deeply depressed. On Sundays he'd often leave to drive the 3 miles to his office to grab the Sunday paper delivered there. He might not return home for hours. He seemed sober when he came home, and said he was "catching up" but now I know he was drinking. He'd come home sullen and angry.
I never knew when he'd be happy or mellow or mad and angry at me. It was subtle. No yelling, no screaming, just the cold shoulder and being stonewalled. He'd come home from some work event (say, celebrating an employee's birthday) and he would slur his words. I knew he'd driven intoxicated many times. He insisted he was not intoxicated. He'd get very angry and defensive when I talked to him about my concerns, saying it was all in my imagination and that "I've been doing this for years." (Um, no, or I wouldn't have married you and made babies with you dude!). He'd tell me "needs to relax." If pushed he'd say "I drink because I'm under a lot of stress" or "because you stress me out." He'd assure me all was well. Our lives were good, and wasn't the fact that he pulled down over a million dollars last year good enough for me?
Even after being confronted with all this and the demise of our marriage, he says that "I know I was overdoing it, but I'm not an alcoholic." His father was an end-stage alcoholic who literally drank himself into the grave.
Alcohol is a subtle mistress. It has taken me years to see how it has crept into my husband's heart. I found that once I really started looking at things with open eyes (not hopeful ones), I saw the sad truth. From that point on, things came to a head very quickly. I found booze everywhere, flasks, vodka, beer, wine. It was like a giant jigsaw puzzle and all the pieces, all the little questions and mysteries about my husband suddenly fit together and the story made sense. THAT is when I knew I was not going crazy.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it. That's up to him if he's willing. I can only make decisions for myself and our kids.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Good God. You know he's an alcoholic so get off the "is he or isn't he" BS denial cycle. The question goes to this-- how do you want to live the rest of your life, and do you want to do it with this man?
Either way, Alanon will help you find your answers.
Good luck.
Cyranoak
Either way, Alanon will help you find your answers.
Good luck.
Cyranoak
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 86
There is a great thread here "What normies don't know" or something like that. Read the hundreds of posts and the symptoms are all over the thread. Denial, manipulating, hiding and lying about drinking in general are big red flags, in my case. Al-Anon has been a life saver for me, this week is 2 years I've been going. Take good care of myself and detach with love during the behavior. Once I started using the tools I learned in Al-Anon, it was as if the epithany came to him on his own that he needed help. He's the only one that can help himself, we cannot force solutions on the A'ic. Good luck and God bless.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I'm a recovering alcoholic and my definition is this: when I pick up a drink I can't control how much I drink or what will happen. That's what we mean by being powerless over alcohol (although I'm not powerless over not drinking). In terms of mental illness, alcoholics suffer from grandiosity, have enormous ego and low self esteem, are self willed, self centered and will go to any lengths to protect their higher power (alcohol).
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Florence 
I've heard some addiction counselors say that the most dangerous addict is the smart, controlled addict -- they have the ability to maintain their addiction, hide it, justify it, and slip out of social and legal consequences for a long, long time.
Good thread.
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