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Trying to make sense of A's thought processes...impossible??

Old 07-27-2011, 04:36 PM
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Trying to make sense of A's thought processes...impossible??

I recently made the decision to talk to XABF after months of NC. Mostly I wanted to get a ring back that I had given XABF during the time we were together. It was my father's before he passed away and is very special to me.

At first, XABF seemed to be really sweet over the phone and well on his way to recovery. Then, out of nowhere, he started blowing me off. Made an excuse not to show up to the meeting we were to have when he would give me said ring. I asked what the deal was regarding his change in behavior towards me, to which he finally replied:

"I'm scared to talk because I want us to be together forever bruingirl. I still do and thats why its hard to talk to you. It scares me and I miss you more than you can or will ever understand and I wake up everyday regretting my actions and thoughts. Im sorry I've been ignoring you but I haven't moved on and that's why it hurts. I guess I dont want to let go of the ring just yet because it still helps me get through rough spots. Im just being selfish."

I'm moving across the country in mid-August and told him after that that I needed it before then and we didn't have to talk at all about anything else. He started saying things like "I'm not your BF, I'm not obligated to do anything" and then started ignoring my texts and emails altogether (even though they were SOLELY about getting the ring and written in a professional manner). I have also offered that we exchange it through friends or parents so we don't have to see each other, all to no avail.

In the time since this has been going on he's posted statuses on facebook quoting things related to recovery, but I know him enough to know this is a show he is putting on. It feels like he's been putting on a show since we've broken up. Right away he got into a relationship with the naive younger girl he cheated on me with and stopped trying to contact me AT ALL. For him, he is the kind of A that drinks because he wants to "erase" everything. And it feels like he is doing all these things because he wants to erase me.

I think deep inside he probably KNOWS that this is an ineffective way of dealing with emotions. I'm sure he does/will have resentment/guilt/pain from the breakup. I feel it's a combination of all of this that keeps him stringing me along without really letting me go. If he really didn't care and if he really was in recovery, to give me my ring back would not be a big deal. If anything he should easily give me the ring so he can move on finally too. But he won't do that. He has no excuse for the way I've acted to him either, as I've been nothing but kind, professional, and patient.

I'm not sure what to think of it all? I've always considered myself a realistic optimist and strive to see the good in everyone, including him. But I just don't know what to think. On the one end I want to feel badly for him because I'm sure there is a lot of turmoil inside going on about what he did and he isn't dealing with it properly, but on the other I can't feel sorry for him if he keeps choosing this path of not addressing his remorse but not letting it go either.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:42 PM
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If I had gotten that type of response I would 'assume' the ring was gone, either temporarily pawned or sold to a pawn shop or 'traded' for some drugs.

Sorry but that was pure BS out of his mouth.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:47 PM
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I don't think he's sold it. He has plenty of access to lots of money so I'm sure he's not that desperate. He also knows how important it is and smart enough to guard it well. We actually grew up together and he knew my father since birth, so I'm sure that would influence his caretaking of it. Also, the only one time he ever tried to contact me during months of NC was on father's day. I didn't reply but that's when he first texted me saying:

"I hope your recent trip went well. I just wanted to wish you a happy father's day and in his honor I found his ring."
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:49 PM
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IMHO, the ring is the glue. He has something you want, and for one last effort he gets to control the situation. As far as his facebook comments, that too is a form of manipulation. He sounds very childish. Sure hope you get your dad's ring back. Best of luck in your cross country move. It sounds exciting.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:40 PM
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Ahhh that sucks...I was hoping it would be something not irreplaceable, but sounds as if you will have to pursue this. Are you close enough to his parents to maybe enlist their help? I agree with marie1960 that this is a manipulation on his part, even though he may feel that way about the ending of this relationship. But still...very childish to not give you this priceless item back.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:41 PM
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I think marie is right. My second husband had a book of mine, and for at least a few years after I moved out, moved across the country, divorced him, he would call me once every several months and ask if I still wanted the damn book. I always said, "Sure, I want it." I never expected to get it, and I never have. It wasn't even a big deal of a book--it's one I could easily order another copy of, online.

I wouldn't count on getting it back, unless you wanted the drama of taking him to court over it. And even then, I would have my doubts you'd ever get it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:06 PM
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I agree... you should probably resign yourself to the fact that you'll never get it back. It's the one and only thing he still has over you. Perhaps in some, twisted, Alcoholic (even tho he's "in recovery") mindset, he thinks if he keeps the ring, he'll get you back. They don't think logically. You can't figure them out. Sorry!
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:23 PM
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Aww, I was hoping I wouldn't hear that I'm not going to get it back, but expected that that's what the consensus would be.

XABF lives with his parents so they are going to be my next plan of action. I had told him a long time ago that I would pick it up from them from his house so he needn't worry at all about us running into each other, but he said at that time:

"I will not tell them about the ring or anything and I dont want them worrying about me again and the second you will pop up into my life, they will be scared. So please respect what my family has tried to rebuild since our relationship. We dont always get our ways. I think we both know that"

Umm, what does that mean? Is he blaming his family issues on me? Or saying that post-breakup he was really torn up and going through a lot? Also I love how he makes me out to be a bad guy. Funny though, because when I recently saw XABF's parents at a mutual friends wedding, they were pretty kind to me. Even invited me over to their house between the wedding and reception, which I very politely declined.

Since he felt so uncomfortable about me interacting with his parents at the time, I was nice enough to try to figure it out with him. But in the most recent email I sent him, I basically stated that he had a deadline the first of August before I start inquiring with others about it. Others meaning his parents and also the current GF. Wondering how she would like to read the above text he sent me about him still wanting to be with me??? (Don't worry SR I'm not really going to talk to her, I know I know! But still funny to imagine the mess he's gotten himself in!)

I just think he's being silly (read: stupid). I even told him many times before that if we talked about everything that happened and accepted it, we could be able to move on. Even remain good friends. I really was willing to remain friends with him so long as he was in recovery. But instead of actively pursuing a friendship with me when he supposedly "misses me", he is playing a sick game by keeping the ring hostage and ignoring me all the same.

The alcoholic's problems really begin with the alcoholic and end with the alcoholic don't they?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:23 PM
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I don't think he has the ring at all. I don't even think he actually found it on Father's Day.

Just speaking from experience, he was looking for your buttons, and you showed them to him. That's all he's pushing now. He knows if you contact his parents, he will be caught in a lie.

That's my take on it.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:19 AM
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Bruin - I doubt you will ever get the ring back, and I think you know this. Like others have said, him holding onto the ring is his way of holding onto you and it doesn't seem like he is willing to let go.

I think the best course of action is to let go altogether. Send him one last email explaining how much the ring means to you, but that you are willing to let go so that you can move on with your life. Give him your address in case he changes his mind. Once he sees that you are really serious, he may have a change of heart and send it to you. But like you have already said, addicts don't make sense. They don't make rational choices.

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Old 07-28-2011, 01:19 AM
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Ugh this sounds like XABF. Very very similar.

I also had something valuable, when I asked for it I was told via a 3rd party that the thing was broken in a drunken party. This was not broken easily when dropped. He did it on purpose. Or he was too drunk to notice. Perhaps it was a drunken friend? Of course no apology how naive of me! I was very angry and upset. Then my sister got me something similar. I like it more because it reminds me of someone that really loves me.

Anyway, my sanity was worth any object so I let it go.

The love and memories of your dad will always be with you. You would have had to let go of that ring sooner or later. We die with nothing in our hands. Its a price for learning who to trust. I know - it sucks. But your love between your dad and you and all the memories will continue living in your heart and that is something no one, including XABF can ever ever take away from you.

Also, I still talk to an XBF. This thread helped me notice money and taking care of my cats are still the "glue". I have learned from this thread. Thank you.

We do not own anyone nor anything. I would cut my losses. I lost my grandmom years ago, and one feeling that I used to have then was that she wanted me to be happy, that I had been forgiven, that objects did not matter, only love matters, only love goes on. Things get lost, broken, misplaced, damaged. All of them are temporary.

Focus on what it represents. Perhaps get a new one and do some kind of "ritual" thinking of your dad? and "letting him know" the new ring represents a new you who has more clarity about who deserves to be in her life, who still has your dad very present? perhaps this can be a meaningful ring too. OK maybe you think I am crazy but I truly believe our loved ones that have moved on to the other life, can listen to us and see us with love and understanding beyond what we would ever imagine, and that they want to see us happy and peaceful, period.

(Just my views, if someone thinks I am nuts, its ok... this is just my experience/feelings.... )

Hugs to you.

PS The guy did not deserve you.
PPS There is no magic eraser that works. Denial does not remove any unprocessed emotion nor memory from anyone. As MB says "we all pay, sooner or later". I no longer feel sorry for XABF. He made many conscious decisions that hurt me deeply. He is not a helpless victim. And he also went out with a younger naive woman. Modus operandi. They need someone to get energy from and feed their egos and disease. When she wakes up from Fantasyland, she will leave, and the next day he will get someone else. Not personal.

I am glad I am not enabling/helping anyone in their slow suicide anymore.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:44 AM
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PPPS I would not ask for it once again and I would ignore him in facebook and everywhere else. He knows you want it and if was a half decent person he would have given or sent it back already. One more try won't change anything IMHO.

:codiepolice:

PPPPS Ah yeah everything is a show, I have read people with really low self worth are the ones that spend most time in Facebook. They need to demonstrate things to others, they don't feel valuable if they don't. Active alcoholics seek alcohol because they crave real warmth, alcohol gives an illusion of contact with human beings, laughter, ease, "happiness", "sincere talks" etc. etc. that is all they know or all they can imagine. Their whole world is illusion & fantasy so why would FB be any different? I suffered for MONTHS seeing such updates... my life improved once I was no longer part of the audience.... honestly? it was not worth it. God at work sent me a day when all this became boring and I remembered I was alive and had my own life to live, create and plans to look forward to. So in that note... good luck in your move!!! a fresh start!!
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:06 AM
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One day, you may choose to have another ring made in your father's honor...that would be very special, too! I am sorry for what you are going through and wish you the best in your future.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:27 AM
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I know I should just let it go, but it's just not fair dang it!! And I know everyone's going to say life isn't fair, especially life with an alcoholic, but sometimes it's just plain frustrating. I do NOT understand why it is so difficult to reciprocate the kindness, patience, and respect I have been giving him. I consider myself to be a very simple person and like to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Really I haven't been anything but sweet considering that he's the one who had been acting so vile. Lord knows how crazily he would be acting if I had cheated on him like that towards the end and gotten with someone else so quickly. There's really no excuse he can use. I haven't been rude, and I've offered possible alternatives that make it easier for him. SO FRUSTRATING.

WILL HE EVER GET IT?! How hard is it to just be nice and rational about things sheesh.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:39 AM
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When I place expectations upon others (being nice and rationalize) only leads into a resentment for me.

Accepting this situation just as it is, him just as he is is the answer, IMHO.

I no longer try to figure out why people can't act the way most civilized people do, I no longer expect them to act or react the way I would.

This lends to keeping me sane, serene and sober!
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:00 PM
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Bruingirl. You gave the ring to him. It is his. He has no obligation to give it back.

Remember, it is just a ring. The memories are already yours. You already have and own them.

Your friend,
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:11 PM
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You are moving physically in a couple of weeks, might be time to also move on, emotionally.

Mike said it all, it was a gift to him, let it go. To me, if it had so much sentimental attachment, I would have never given it to anyone, it's too late now.

He doesn't need any excuse to not return the ring, it's his.

I must agree with Anvil, I believe that you want to be in contact with him, and, the ring is a good excuse.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:38 PM
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The above posts seem harsh... but I see the truth in them....

bruingirl are you going to therapy...? you sound so much like me... giving giving and not receiving much in return... I feel so much better after talking with mine, I wish everybody went to a good one. It has been my #1 source of support. You are worth feeling better...

You are going to the HW store for bread.
Perhaps you are angry with yourself for trusting someone who did not deserve it? well, that is how I felt anyway, I couldn't believe I trusted a JERK plain and simple. In reality I was angry with myself.

Still am but working on it.


Go to therapy

Write a letter to your dad if you feel bad about losing the ring, get a new one, mark the occasion, make it a very special one too.

Write to the EXABF and how all he does has made you and is making you feel. (Don't send it)

Keep reading "Codependent no more" by MB.
Alanon, for people affected and people who were affected by alcoholism.

Get the anger out, maybe with sports?


Forgiveness is a huge healer. You need to forgive XABF, forgive yourself and realize your dad has already forgiven the loss of this ring (I hope XABF sends it but I wouldn't count on it). Forgiveness is a huge one. In my family there are resentments that have been kept well and alive and have gone on for 30 YEARS. I hope you let them go. Otherwise they will turn into illness later, I am convinced of this.

We have to let it all go. Things, people, and the most difficult one for me, ideas of people that we had in our minds and are no longer(or were never) reality.

Zen books/zen reading online has also been of huge help, to realize the temporary nature of...well, everything.

Living in the here and the now is much more rewarding than living in the past. The past... has to stay there, it is already there, in the past. But this can't sink in rationally, there's a lot of inner emotional work to do to let it go (and I can't do it by myself, need a pro to guide me through these changes)

HUGS.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:22 PM
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Yeah I agree that some of the above posts seem harsh but have taken them as they are meant for my good. I hope?? And I assume they are just written rather quickly and to the point as an answer is probably so clear to people looking in from the outside and not as clear to me.

I know what the "right" thing to do is like many of the posts have stated, but it doesn't mean I like it. And like you mentioned TakingCharge, I feel like I still need help with dealing and have a long way to go in my recovery.

I know you all will be really disappointed but I happened to read his wisdom laden status of the day and it was, "It is true that when one door closes, another opens. It's the hallway that is the real b!tch". Made me feel sad and hurt all over again, because I felt he was referring to me. But you all are right and I need to start learning to STOP touching the hot stove over and over again/ going to the hardware store for bread...the whole shebang! I just need to cut the cord.

It's just sad for me. I feel like I'm so used to giving him and everyone the benefit of the doubt. And the fact is that I still love him and miss him very much, even when I KNOW I would never want to be with him again.

TakingCharge you mention that my problem might be that I feel badly for trusting a jerk, but my problem is just the opposite I think. I spend so much time thinking that genuinely their is some good inside him that I am always willing to forgive and willing to get caught up in the idiocy and check up on him because I think the good will seep through at some point. But that really just makes me the idiot I guess?

It's also really interesting that you bring up therapy TakingCharge, because I've actually been meaning to post a separate thread about that for some time now. Like I said, I think I have a far ways to go and feel like a lot of the changes going on in my life right now have been very overwhelming. I REALLY REALLY have been wanting to start seeing a therapist but have been unsure of how to approach everything because I can't afford it at the time. Anyway I'm actually just going to post this in a separate thread now, so the two don't get mixed up.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:59 AM
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Update:

So I thankfully opened my eyes to some of the posts here and sure enough, XABF finally admitted that he must have "misplaced the ring recently". He said he was scared to talk to me because he thought I would be angry and didn't want to deliver any more bad news along with the recent passing of my dog. He also admitted a few times around that he was being a coward. I told him that I would not be angry if he actually kept me updated and was actively looking for it. His ignoring me out of nowhere was the thing that really got me angry and confused. He said he hadn't looked in a few places and would today. He also said that he'd keep me posted today.

That stuff is all fine. But now there is something else that is bothering me. Of course haha, it never ends does it. When we were texting about the ring, he was becoming more friendly sending smileys and lols, etc. At one point I asked him if he wanted to talk or not talk because he had been ignoring me and he said "yes ". I feel like this whole time I was wondering why he wasn't reciprocating friendliness and kindness and making more of an effort. But now that he does APPARENTLY want to stay on speaking and friendly terms, I'm kind of angry. I don't really want to talk to HIM anymore. Up until this point like I had mentioned I felt my problem was that I was too forgiving of him, and now that he is finally saying he wants to be friendly, I don't feel the same way anymore. I kind of don't want to talk to him at all again and kind of want to yell at him for being such a jerk if I see him (I know that's bad!). It finally seems as thought I've gotten what I thought I wanted-him being friendly, lighthearted, and staying in touch- only to realize I don't know if I want that after all!

I'm confused..


A big portion of the above feelings I think are related to him being with new GF. I'm not sure if I would feel okay personally forgiving him and being friends with him if he is with the person he cheated on me with? How would you all feel? Would you be able to stay on good terms with someone who did that?
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