A sorry sort of Impasse, have you been there?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 59
A sorry sort of Impasse, have you been there?
As you may have read my wife is asking me to move back in as "loving husband to support her" as this is what “she needs” to find sobriety. She has now stated clearly it is an “all-or-nothing” deal for her.
My girls and I, as you know, have asked to see a period of sobriety and recovery to start staying over and gradually come back. DSD16 is in full agreement. DD6 is just going along with it.
From what I can tell my wife is drinking more or less daily whilst she waits.
I offered for us to stay over for a night Saturday week if she can show 10 days of sobriety. (To be gauged by a phone call at 10:30 nightly).
She says she is into this in order to meet the informal requirement for there to be an adult present with DD6. The 10:30 call is not convincing however and I seem to just end up on the receiving end of vitriolic observations on her part.
Anybody been here before who can offer some ES&H?
(Going to hit an extra meeting today in a nearby town...)
My girls and I, as you know, have asked to see a period of sobriety and recovery to start staying over and gradually come back. DSD16 is in full agreement. DD6 is just going along with it.
From what I can tell my wife is drinking more or less daily whilst she waits.
I offered for us to stay over for a night Saturday week if she can show 10 days of sobriety. (To be gauged by a phone call at 10:30 nightly).
She says she is into this in order to meet the informal requirement for there to be an adult present with DD6. The 10:30 call is not convincing however and I seem to just end up on the receiving end of vitriolic observations on her part.
Anybody been here before who can offer some ES&H?
(Going to hit an extra meeting today in a nearby town...)
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 290
I'm sorry you and your kids are going through a difficult time. I haven't read any of your other post, but I think your idea of staying away until she can prove to you that she can live without a drink is a really good one! It's the best you can do for yourself, her, and most importantly your kids.
I can't tell you what the right thing to do is... but I can tell you what I did. I had heard empty promise upon empty promise, had temporarily moved out and then came back because AH "needed me back in order to find sobriety" (which lasted maybe 3 weeks and didn't start until after I had been back for a week and dragged him to a outpatient rehab). I finally ended up leaving him for real ... and stayed away (broke all contact). After a few month he called, apologized, and told me he's been sober a couple of weeks and going to AA and group therapy. It took me a while to believe him and I only hung out with him a little here and there, but he consistently showed me that he was committed to staying sober and whenever I called or got in touch with him all signs pointed to sobriety. I ended up moving back in after he'd been sober for 6 (?) months and it went well until tonight (I just caught him with an empty whiskey bottle... so there goes his almost year long sobriety).
I don't have kids, so I am not sure how things would be if I had kids along for the ride. BUT I do know that no one deserves to go through all the drama that active alcoholism brings. Do you have a good boundary in place when it comes to your wife and kids? Depending on your boundary make a decision. From where I am now, it would be unacceptable to me to have to check up on an adult just to make sure they are "behaving". It would drive me absolutely insane, if I had to, each night, try to guess whether my spouse was drinking or not based on a phone conversation. Especially, because I would believe they'd start drinking right after I'd hang up the phone and just "trick" me into believing they were sober.
I think having an adult present when your kids are over there is a must and if you chose to not have her see the kids unless she is sober would also be reasonable. But I'm wondering why you set the 10-day sobriety rule? To me, putting a rule like that into place may require you to constantly check up on her! Is that how you want to live your life (I know you probably have better things to do than to babysit a grown woman)? I think if it was me, it'd be more important for a spouse to show me that they are acting responsible and are consistent in their actions and then I would go from there and may entertain the thought of possibly spending the night. Just some thoughts based on my experience with my AH.
I wish you and your kids all the best... hang in there and continue to get support!
I can't tell you what the right thing to do is... but I can tell you what I did. I had heard empty promise upon empty promise, had temporarily moved out and then came back because AH "needed me back in order to find sobriety" (which lasted maybe 3 weeks and didn't start until after I had been back for a week and dragged him to a outpatient rehab). I finally ended up leaving him for real ... and stayed away (broke all contact). After a few month he called, apologized, and told me he's been sober a couple of weeks and going to AA and group therapy. It took me a while to believe him and I only hung out with him a little here and there, but he consistently showed me that he was committed to staying sober and whenever I called or got in touch with him all signs pointed to sobriety. I ended up moving back in after he'd been sober for 6 (?) months and it went well until tonight (I just caught him with an empty whiskey bottle... so there goes his almost year long sobriety).
I don't have kids, so I am not sure how things would be if I had kids along for the ride. BUT I do know that no one deserves to go through all the drama that active alcoholism brings. Do you have a good boundary in place when it comes to your wife and kids? Depending on your boundary make a decision. From where I am now, it would be unacceptable to me to have to check up on an adult just to make sure they are "behaving". It would drive me absolutely insane, if I had to, each night, try to guess whether my spouse was drinking or not based on a phone conversation. Especially, because I would believe they'd start drinking right after I'd hang up the phone and just "trick" me into believing they were sober.
I think having an adult present when your kids are over there is a must and if you chose to not have her see the kids unless she is sober would also be reasonable. But I'm wondering why you set the 10-day sobriety rule? To me, putting a rule like that into place may require you to constantly check up on her! Is that how you want to live your life (I know you probably have better things to do than to babysit a grown woman)? I think if it was me, it'd be more important for a spouse to show me that they are acting responsible and are consistent in their actions and then I would go from there and may entertain the thought of possibly spending the night. Just some thoughts based on my experience with my AH.
I wish you and your kids all the best... hang in there and continue to get support!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Val, for me it was when I reached the point of moving out. It didn't matter if she got sober or not I couldn't live like that any more. My AW told me the same things. She is in outpatient rehab and said her Doctor told her that. Quack.
I made my decision based on what was right for me, not her. I don't regret it at all.
Your friend,
I made my decision based on what was right for me, not her. I don't regret it at all.
Your friend,
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Hugs, Val,
She is trying to bargain, and once you start doing that, it's a slippery slope. Look at it this way, it is especially confusing to your 6 y/o. Consistency is important at that age. I also wouldn't be looking to the little one to be "on board" with what the grownup decides. Kids that age do not get a vote in what is best for them. I would keep her out of any negotiations concerning contact and visitation.
Your wife does not NEED you and the girls to get sober. That's a bunch of BS. As a matter of fact, she COULD be using this time alone as a gift to concentrate on her sobriety. I say this as an alcoholic in recovery. If I had to manage a family while I was getting sober (my ex and my kids were already living in another State before I started drinking alcoholically), it would have been more complicated.
Glad you are hitting meetings. They helped me a lot when the alcoholic in my life had my head spinning.
She is trying to bargain, and once you start doing that, it's a slippery slope. Look at it this way, it is especially confusing to your 6 y/o. Consistency is important at that age. I also wouldn't be looking to the little one to be "on board" with what the grownup decides. Kids that age do not get a vote in what is best for them. I would keep her out of any negotiations concerning contact and visitation.
Your wife does not NEED you and the girls to get sober. That's a bunch of BS. As a matter of fact, she COULD be using this time alone as a gift to concentrate on her sobriety. I say this as an alcoholic in recovery. If I had to manage a family while I was getting sober (my ex and my kids were already living in another State before I started drinking alcoholically), it would have been more complicated.
Glad you are hitting meetings. They helped me a lot when the alcoholic in my life had my head spinning.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
While some of the small details may be different my experience with my xah was very similar. Hindsight is 20/20. I can say that if I could change anything it would be that once we were in seperate homes - I would have kept it that way. My initial request was that we stay apart until he had 6mos sobriety and a solid recovery program. At 6mos I said I'd do marriage counseling and go from there. I caved because I was confused, guilt ridden, had basically no emotional or physical boundaries at all, - a number of things. Life with an alcoholic is never good for a child but my children's worst memories, the most heartache, the long lasting scars - came from that time and were a result of me not holding that boundary. It was a hellish time for all of us.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
I haven't had any experience with separation, but my AW has continued to drink whether we get angry at her, yell at her, bargain with her, lovingly support her, ignore her...
Of course, everyone is different, but from my own experience, and from what I've read here, what we do or don't do doesn't seem to have that much impact on our alcoholic's recovery, or lack thereof. From where I sit, it looks like the disease has a life of its own, and recovery depends primarily on the alcoholic's desire to stop.
But, I could be wrong.
Of course, everyone is different, but from my own experience, and from what I've read here, what we do or don't do doesn't seem to have that much impact on our alcoholic's recovery, or lack thereof. From where I sit, it looks like the disease has a life of its own, and recovery depends primarily on the alcoholic's desire to stop.
But, I could be wrong.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
Val...
I am sharing as an alcoholic wife and mother in recovery.
Stick to your boundary.
Love yourself and those girls enough to show them that their are boundaries to our behavior in life. I think a compromise for a Saturday night is wonderful if it is something YOU want to do.
I found my bottom when I knew that my husband had enough of my drinking. I knew that the next step would be one I truly didn't want. I had to get back to sobriety and working my program.
I needed to be sober, wether or not we remained married or not. My daughters needed a sober parent.
I am sharing as an alcoholic wife and mother in recovery.
Stick to your boundary.
Love yourself and those girls enough to show them that their are boundaries to our behavior in life. I think a compromise for a Saturday night is wonderful if it is something YOU want to do.
I found my bottom when I knew that my husband had enough of my drinking. I knew that the next step would be one I truly didn't want. I had to get back to sobriety and working my program.
I needed to be sober, wether or not we remained married or not. My daughters needed a sober parent.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 76
As a recovering alcoholic, living with an alcoholic, I can understand just where you are at.
The recovering alcoholic in me knows this: in order to get and stay sober, you have to want it more than anything. I got sober because it was killing me. I stay sober because I want to be there for my kids and because I NEVER want to go back to that black place. I don't think we recover unless we are willing to go to any lengths to stay sober. Even the big book of AA tells us that we cannot use excuses to keep drinking.
Look at your wife's ACTIONS, not her words. The fact that she continues to drink while she waits for you to decide whether to move back suggests that she doesn't want sobriety for herself.
As someone who lives with an alcoholic, I know just how difficult it is to be in your position. I have done everything I can think of to show him the benefits of sobriety and nothing has worked. He is currently dry and not working a program. I want to leave, but am filled with guilt at hurting him. I am afraid he'll go drink. blah blah blah. I'm working on it.
Peace - I know you'll find your answer if you trust your heart/spirit.
The recovering alcoholic in me knows this: in order to get and stay sober, you have to want it more than anything. I got sober because it was killing me. I stay sober because I want to be there for my kids and because I NEVER want to go back to that black place. I don't think we recover unless we are willing to go to any lengths to stay sober. Even the big book of AA tells us that we cannot use excuses to keep drinking.
Look at your wife's ACTIONS, not her words. The fact that she continues to drink while she waits for you to decide whether to move back suggests that she doesn't want sobriety for herself.
As someone who lives with an alcoholic, I know just how difficult it is to be in your position. I have done everything I can think of to show him the benefits of sobriety and nothing has worked. He is currently dry and not working a program. I want to leave, but am filled with guilt at hurting him. I am afraid he'll go drink. blah blah blah. I'm working on it.
Peace - I know you'll find your answer if you trust your heart/spirit.
Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
Posts: 217
No amount of support helps an alcoholic get sober. Sobriety is strictly up to the drinker.
Many alcoholics require a prime enabler in the early and crucial stages of the disease. When that enabler is removed from the picture a new one must be found or the old one retained. This requirement can result in a great deal of bargaining and manipulation.
Many alcoholics require a prime enabler in the early and crucial stages of the disease. When that enabler is removed from the picture a new one must be found or the old one retained. This requirement can result in a great deal of bargaining and manipulation.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by ValJester 
As you may have read my wife is asking me to move back in as "loving husband to support her" as this is what “she needs” to find sobriety. She has now stated clearly it is an “all-or-nothing” deal for her.
How many times have I heard stuff like this? Well...if I had a dollar for every time, I'd have been able to buy my house with cash instead of take out a mortgage.
I reached a point where I was tired of the "all or nothing" crap and began to call his bluff on it all. We are still married and he has really done an about face in the last 6 weeks since I dropped the papers off... has been really kind and honest lately...its been nice, but I am still wary!
His success in sobriety has absolutely nothing to do with me, living together, staying married, or the earth rotating each day. Is it his problem and only he can make that commitment and see it through. He doesn't need my support. He needs the support of other alcoholics to help him manage early sobriety.
When he grumbles about not living together, I remind him to take things one day at a time. I don't have a timeline set in stone here, either. Just taking it one day at a time myself. The marriage takes a backseat to recovery, period.
Hold your ground and protect your boundaries and stop trying to negotiate with an active alcoholic. If she wants the benefits of sobriety, tell her to go find them herself.
Stay strong!
~T
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
For the love of God don't do it. Dude, play the movie out to the end, think long and hard, and then make your decision. When it all goes to hell SR and Alanon will still be there for you-- just like AA is when alcoholics relapse. Make sure you post about it after so we can read it and be reminded before it happens to one of us as well.
Cyranoak
Cyranoak
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
Val -
You should be the one setting the standard, not her. Since you have her in this spot, you basically have a lot of leverage, and should use it.
Many alcoholics cannot get sober on their own. It is like someone with a broken leg trying to mend it themselves - it just doesn't work in the majority of cases. It seems that the best option for her at this point is rehab. They've done studies and they've found that the longer the rehab stay, the higher the success rate. So you should aim for at least a 2 month stay, possibly 3 if it can be managed. After that she can transition into a sober living home, and then eventually back into family life.
I think the mistake that many people make is not giving enough time for recovery. Your wife's body is very sick - think cancer patient. Most people understand that you cannot expect a person undergoing chemo to manage the same way a healthy person does, yet they do not understand this when looking at a recovering alcoholic.
The more time she gets in treatment, the better your chances will be of having your wife back and your family complete.
Panther
You should be the one setting the standard, not her. Since you have her in this spot, you basically have a lot of leverage, and should use it.
Many alcoholics cannot get sober on their own. It is like someone with a broken leg trying to mend it themselves - it just doesn't work in the majority of cases. It seems that the best option for her at this point is rehab. They've done studies and they've found that the longer the rehab stay, the higher the success rate. So you should aim for at least a 2 month stay, possibly 3 if it can be managed. After that she can transition into a sober living home, and then eventually back into family life.
I think the mistake that many people make is not giving enough time for recovery. Your wife's body is very sick - think cancer patient. Most people understand that you cannot expect a person undergoing chemo to manage the same way a healthy person does, yet they do not understand this when looking at a recovering alcoholic.
The more time she gets in treatment, the better your chances will be of having your wife back and your family complete.
Panther
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