New, confused, sad, but determined
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 17
New, confused, sad, but determined
I've been reading as a guest for some time and took a deep breath and registered...I didn't turn into a frog or anything, so it's good so far.
Briefly, I came out of denial about three years ago, and recognized that I was living with an alcoholic. I have stayed with him. The drinking is getting worse and worse.
I hear things like, "it's ok for me to get passed-out-drunk every night if I want to, I'm an adult." Or, "The only drinking problem I have is that you make me feel guilty."
There are multiple mental issues in his immediate genetic family, primarily anxiety disorders and chronic depression. He was raised by alcoholics so maybe the ability to conceptualize 'normal' is different for him than for me. My fear is that he is self-destructing. I'm fairly sure he is depressed and I know that drinking makes him much more worse; I hate it, but I can't do anything about it.
OTOH I get so tired, exhausted really, with listening to repeat complaints when the behaviors that trigger the complaints never, ever change.
Will they, ever?
I've never been an Al-Anon meeting, though I did drive by the local meeting a few times, ha. I'm trying to get up the courage to go.
I guess that I've decided to live with this, with him, but I don't know how to go about establishing boundaries and enforcing them. I'm afraid of damaging his ego when he's already depressed, but I have to keep our children, and myself, safe (no violence physically, lots of verbal abuse to me). How do I go about this?
Briefly, I came out of denial about three years ago, and recognized that I was living with an alcoholic. I have stayed with him. The drinking is getting worse and worse.
I hear things like, "it's ok for me to get passed-out-drunk every night if I want to, I'm an adult." Or, "The only drinking problem I have is that you make me feel guilty."
There are multiple mental issues in his immediate genetic family, primarily anxiety disorders and chronic depression. He was raised by alcoholics so maybe the ability to conceptualize 'normal' is different for him than for me. My fear is that he is self-destructing. I'm fairly sure he is depressed and I know that drinking makes him much more worse; I hate it, but I can't do anything about it.
OTOH I get so tired, exhausted really, with listening to repeat complaints when the behaviors that trigger the complaints never, ever change.
Will they, ever?
I've never been an Al-Anon meeting, though I did drive by the local meeting a few times, ha. I'm trying to get up the courage to go.
I guess that I've decided to live with this, with him, but I don't know how to go about establishing boundaries and enforcing them. I'm afraid of damaging his ego when he's already depressed, but I have to keep our children, and myself, safe (no violence physically, lots of verbal abuse to me). How do I go about this?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
I'm new here too! Welcome!
I do go to Al-Anon. I was afraid too, but I didn't turn into a frog and found happy people there full of support for me. Someone suggested 6 meetings before you make up your mind, which is good. Because, I would have probably quit after the first, second or third. I have "Higher Power" issues, but I've worked out a way for me to still go and benefit anyways. And all accept that my Higher Power may not be their God.
I do go to Al-Anon. I was afraid too, but I didn't turn into a frog and found happy people there full of support for me. Someone suggested 6 meetings before you make up your mind, which is good. Because, I would have probably quit after the first, second or third. I have "Higher Power" issues, but I've worked out a way for me to still go and benefit anyways. And all accept that my Higher Power may not be their God.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Welcome,
Some people decide to live with their addict and suffer in silence, all their life. That of coarse is their and/or your choice. I take no exception to that, if there are no children involved.
Children put a whole new spin on everything. Children hear and see everything, although they suffer in silence. They are affected by living in a toxic home. Children do not understand what is going on around them, and, adult children of alcoholics/adicts suffer from many disorders such as aggression,impulsivness, negative self worth, and 50% end up marrying addicts/alcoholics. The trauma that they are exposed to in their childhood will haunt them all their adult life. I know this firsthand as I was raised by two alcoholics, alot of verbal abuse...I still bear the scars today.
As for meetings, they were a lifesaver for me when I was dealing with my exabf (yes, in adulthood I either married or had relationships with addicts), I took what I wanted from the meeting and left the rest.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease that has no cure, he will be an alcoholic all his life, it is just a matter of whether he is drinking or not.
You cannot fix him, read around the forums there are alot of posts about bounderies.
Keep posting, we are here for you!
Some people decide to live with their addict and suffer in silence, all their life. That of coarse is their and/or your choice. I take no exception to that, if there are no children involved.
Children put a whole new spin on everything. Children hear and see everything, although they suffer in silence. They are affected by living in a toxic home. Children do not understand what is going on around them, and, adult children of alcoholics/adicts suffer from many disorders such as aggression,impulsivness, negative self worth, and 50% end up marrying addicts/alcoholics. The trauma that they are exposed to in their childhood will haunt them all their adult life. I know this firsthand as I was raised by two alcoholics, alot of verbal abuse...I still bear the scars today.
As for meetings, they were a lifesaver for me when I was dealing with my exabf (yes, in adulthood I either married or had relationships with addicts), I took what I wanted from the meeting and left the rest.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease that has no cure, he will be an alcoholic all his life, it is just a matter of whether he is drinking or not.
You cannot fix him, read around the forums there are alot of posts about bounderies.
Keep posting, we are here for you!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Ogilve
I just wanted to say welcome and that I am sorry for where you are in life.
I have found a lot of support in Al-anon though I am also working through my own Higher Power struggles as someone else has shared.
It is nice though to have a place that I felt automatically accepted. That I did not have to "guess" if they would wonder about me or not . We all had been impacted by addiction in some way shape or form. I needed that acceptance in my life.
I also did a lot of reading on the disease and codependency. I see an individual counselor and am grateful for the opportunity that this has created for me. Though it hurts and I have rough days what an opportunity to help me to help myself to heal.
I just wanted to say welcome and that I am sorry for where you are in life.
I have found a lot of support in Al-anon though I am also working through my own Higher Power struggles as someone else has shared.
It is nice though to have a place that I felt automatically accepted. That I did not have to "guess" if they would wonder about me or not . We all had been impacted by addiction in some way shape or form. I needed that acceptance in my life.
I also did a lot of reading on the disease and codependency. I see an individual counselor and am grateful for the opportunity that this has created for me. Though it hurts and I have rough days what an opportunity to help me to help myself to heal.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 115
I'm not so new but you got further than me if you drove by a meeting! I looked up the times and places on the web but that's as far as I got. I've heard great things about Al-Anon. I know you're hurting right now, but you've got friends and support on here. Hang in there. Stay determined. Thinking of you. 
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ashland Oregon
Posts: 256
I'm glad you finally took the plunge! What I've found is that the forum really encompasses the whole spectrum of families in recovery, from people shell-shocked from living with an abusive alcoholic to families finding new ways to live peaceably (sometimes together, sometimes not).
I encourage you to go to a face to face AlAnon meeting You might try another one if the first one isn't a great fit. I'm learning a lot, including:
- how to define my boundaries,
- words that I can use inside my head (self-talk),
- words I can use to express my boundaries kindly
I've got a long way to go. But I am safer now than I have been in months. I'm edging toward happiness.
Keep posting!
- Sylvie
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Originally Posted by Ogilve 
I guess that I've decided to live with this, with him, but I don't know how to go about establishing boundaries and enforcing them. I'm afraid of damaging his ego when he's already depressed, but I have to keep our children, and myself, safe (no violence physically, lots of verbal abuse to me). How do I go about this?
Please try al-anon, I honestly believe that it is the only way you will be able to continue to live with an active, progressive alcoholic, if that's what you choose to do.
I lived with a verbally abusive, controlling alcoholic husband for 23 yrs. I came out of denial about 18 months ago when someone listening to me complain about how much beer my husband drank suggested that I try Al-anon. Since then I have found this website, been to Al-anon, done lots of therapy and read lots of books on the subject of alcoholism and verbal abuse. I have spent the last 18 months trying to live with my husband and his alcoholism by detaching but it hasn't worked out for me. I think it became more than the drinking for me and I was unable to truly let go, so felt like the disease was swallowing me whole. I came to believe that I was important, my health was important and that I deserved more from my relationship than I had been getting for a long time.
I have just left my AH about 5 weeks ago and now live on my own for the first time in my life.
I can tell you one positive thing that came about for me going to al-anon and learning to detach was the verbal abuse slowly stopped. The more I stood up for myself and said 'stop, I dont have to listen to your abuse' and called him on it, the less he would do it. The less I argued with my AH about his drinking, the less he had reason to 'defend' himself by verbally abusing me. My AH would still try to control me and was doing other unpleasant things like visiting porn websites and smoking behind my back but the verbal abuse certainly reduced significantly.
I know of a few ladies at Al-anon who have continued to live with their alcoholics - warts and all, I commend them because I just couldn't do it and I tried real hard.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 351
The inability to conceptualize 'normal' is part of alcohol addiction ... for ALL alcoholics. Alcoholism clouds the ability to think clearly or behave rationally.
As well as never ending ...
~ Blaming others for problems their drinking creates
~ Denial that they have a problem hoping everyone would just leave them alone and let them drink in peace.
~ Lying to conceal how much they drink
~ Excuses made to make unacceptable behavior, seem acceptable.
~ Anger often misdirected at those closest to them, due to frustration with their own destructive choices
~ Promises made to keep people hanging on, hoping and believing they will change.
On and on ....
These traits and behaviors are inherent to nearly all alcoholics - no matter how they were raised or whether or not they think they are depressed. Many alcoholics believe they are depressed - in part due to alcohol being a depressant and in part due to how messed up their lives have become because of alcohol. It is my belief that the people living with an alcoholic are the ones that should be depressed - especially if they share children because so much more is at stake. Also, those living with an alcoholic are the ones that should be worried about developing low self esteem. Living with an alcoholic is an extremely difficult life filled with unpredictably, blame, chaos, mood swings, irrational behavior and often anger and arguments over situations created by alcohol abuse. All your energy is focused on the alcoholic’s exhausting irrational behavior ... instead of you and your children’s needs and well being. It is the sober spouse’s self esteem that’s plummeting due to receiving continual misdirected blame for alcohol created problems and by being treated so poorly by the someone they thought cared for them.
In my case, my AH was never exposed to alcoholism prior to developing his own addiction ... yet he had a boatload full of excuses for all his inappropriate behavior - just like nearly every other alcoholic. And he had even a bigger boatload of blame and accusations to hurl at me and others to divert blame from being put where it belonged ... on the alcohol. These are all techniques used to protect the continuation of the addiction - the alcoholic's number one priority.
Sometimes when we spend so many years around alcoholism ... gradually we also develop distorted abilities to conceptualize normal. The irrational behaviors start to become acceptable ... and we then come to accept the unacceptable. I lived miserably in "crazyville" for decades ... I knew it wasn't healthy, but I was never really aware of just how totally crazy and unacceptable it was until it was no longer a part of my life.
Regarding children, if you are aware of the damage being raised around alcoholism may have done to their father ... you must consider if want your own precious children to grow up thinking this toxic behavior is “normal” also.
When raising children with an alcoholic parent, it can become a daunting challenge to somehow find a way to separate from the insanity ... to provide financially for them with the likelihood of becoming a single parent. In most cases it is not easy. In a perfect world the alcoholic would choose the well being of their family and find sobriety ... but with alcoholism it is an unlikely outcome. Once I realized my AH was truly an alcoholic, after many years of turmoil and mind games ... I could no longer allow the insanity in our home. What I had tolerated for myself in the past, was no longer acceptable for my children. I had to realize I could not stop my AH's self destruction, but I could try to minimize the damage to my children. I am also the child of an alcoholic ... and we are forever changed by it.
Please keep reading all the amazingly insightful information from those who have lived your life and faced your same problems. With knowledge comes the power to make healthier choices for you and your family ... and find the peace and serenity you so deeply deserve.
As well as never ending ...
~ Blaming others for problems their drinking creates
~ Denial that they have a problem hoping everyone would just leave them alone and let them drink in peace.
~ Lying to conceal how much they drink
~ Excuses made to make unacceptable behavior, seem acceptable.
~ Anger often misdirected at those closest to them, due to frustration with their own destructive choices
~ Promises made to keep people hanging on, hoping and believing they will change.
On and on ....
These traits and behaviors are inherent to nearly all alcoholics - no matter how they were raised or whether or not they think they are depressed. Many alcoholics believe they are depressed - in part due to alcohol being a depressant and in part due to how messed up their lives have become because of alcohol. It is my belief that the people living with an alcoholic are the ones that should be depressed - especially if they share children because so much more is at stake. Also, those living with an alcoholic are the ones that should be worried about developing low self esteem. Living with an alcoholic is an extremely difficult life filled with unpredictably, blame, chaos, mood swings, irrational behavior and often anger and arguments over situations created by alcohol abuse. All your energy is focused on the alcoholic’s exhausting irrational behavior ... instead of you and your children’s needs and well being. It is the sober spouse’s self esteem that’s plummeting due to receiving continual misdirected blame for alcohol created problems and by being treated so poorly by the someone they thought cared for them.
In my case, my AH was never exposed to alcoholism prior to developing his own addiction ... yet he had a boatload full of excuses for all his inappropriate behavior - just like nearly every other alcoholic. And he had even a bigger boatload of blame and accusations to hurl at me and others to divert blame from being put where it belonged ... on the alcohol. These are all techniques used to protect the continuation of the addiction - the alcoholic's number one priority.
Sometimes when we spend so many years around alcoholism ... gradually we also develop distorted abilities to conceptualize normal. The irrational behaviors start to become acceptable ... and we then come to accept the unacceptable. I lived miserably in "crazyville" for decades ... I knew it wasn't healthy, but I was never really aware of just how totally crazy and unacceptable it was until it was no longer a part of my life.
Regarding children, if you are aware of the damage being raised around alcoholism may have done to their father ... you must consider if want your own precious children to grow up thinking this toxic behavior is “normal” also.
When raising children with an alcoholic parent, it can become a daunting challenge to somehow find a way to separate from the insanity ... to provide financially for them with the likelihood of becoming a single parent. In most cases it is not easy. In a perfect world the alcoholic would choose the well being of their family and find sobriety ... but with alcoholism it is an unlikely outcome. Once I realized my AH was truly an alcoholic, after many years of turmoil and mind games ... I could no longer allow the insanity in our home. What I had tolerated for myself in the past, was no longer acceptable for my children. I had to realize I could not stop my AH's self destruction, but I could try to minimize the damage to my children. I am also the child of an alcoholic ... and we are forever changed by it.
Please keep reading all the amazingly insightful information from those who have lived your life and faced your same problems. With knowledge comes the power to make healthier choices for you and your family ... and find the peace and serenity you so deeply deserve.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
hey there, olgilve.
welcome to this forum.
the best advice i can give you, is to come to this site. come often, post as much as you feel you want to, and listen.
there is so much wisdom and experience here, you can gain greatly.
about attending al-anon:
what are you afraid about? it is anonymous, it is full of people just like you, and it is a community of support.
some people have a hard time making that step from "is he an a?" to firmly stating it, which going to a meeting might be for them. you have already stated the obvious.
go to the meeting.
welcome to this forum.
the best advice i can give you, is to come to this site. come often, post as much as you feel you want to, and listen.
there is so much wisdom and experience here, you can gain greatly.
about attending al-anon:
what are you afraid about? it is anonymous, it is full of people just like you, and it is a community of support.
some people have a hard time making that step from "is he an a?" to firmly stating it, which going to a meeting might be for them. you have already stated the obvious.
go to the meeting.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by Seeking Wisdom
The inability to conceptualize 'normal' is part of alcohol addiction ... for ALL alcoholics. Alcoholism clouds the ability to think clearly or behave rationally.
As well as never ending ...
~ Blaming others for problems their drinking creates
~ Denial that they have a problem hoping everyone would just leave them alone and let them drink in peace.
~ Lying to conceal how much they drink
~ Excuses made to make unacceptable behavior, seem acceptable.
~ Anger often misdirected at those closest to them, due to frustration with their own destructive choices
~ Promises made to keep people hanging on, hoping and believing they will change.
On and on ....
These traits and behaviors are inherent to nearly all alcoholics - no matter how they were raised or whether or not they think they are depressed. Many alcoholics believe they are depressed - in part due to alcohol being a depressant and in part due to how messed up their lives have become because of alcohol.
As well as never ending ...
~ Blaming others for problems their drinking creates
~ Denial that they have a problem hoping everyone would just leave them alone and let them drink in peace.
~ Lying to conceal how much they drink
~ Excuses made to make unacceptable behavior, seem acceptable.
~ Anger often misdirected at those closest to them, due to frustration with their own destructive choices
~ Promises made to keep people hanging on, hoping and believing they will change.
On and on ....
These traits and behaviors are inherent to nearly all alcoholics - no matter how they were raised or whether or not they think they are depressed. Many alcoholics believe they are depressed - in part due to alcohol being a depressant and in part due to how messed up their lives have become because of alcohol.
I'm going to print this out and put next to my bathroom mirror to remind me everyday of what is was like being with XABF.
Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 428
Welcome! I completely understand being nervous to go to an Al-anon meeting. It took all that I had to go to the first one. I recently went to a new group and that too was hard for me. I have to say the people there are amazing. They understand exactly what you are going through and it has been a complete blessing for me to attend. If you don't like it you could always get up and leave. I STRONGLY encourage you to just walk in and sit down. You don't even have to say one word if you don't want to. Just about every meeting I go to there is at least one new person and most of the time a few. Some new comers talk and some don't say anything. The wisdom in those rooms is incredible. It is the only place I have even been that I don't feel judged. Just support and help.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 17
Thank you everyone! I am so appreciative of the welcoming environment. I have much to learn.
As for my hesitating about AlAnon, I have my own issues to get through -- pretty typical stuff -- "how did someone like me end up HERE?" and "it seems like I'm betraying him if I go to this meeting" and so on.
I'll get through them, though. At least enough to put my foot in the door.
As for my hesitating about AlAnon, I have my own issues to get through -- pretty typical stuff -- "how did someone like me end up HERE?" and "it seems like I'm betraying him if I go to this meeting" and so on.
I'll get through them, though. At least enough to put my foot in the door.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
There are multiple mental issues in his immediate genetic family
Keep posting. I have found it quite therapeutic, though I'm reluctant to go to Al-Anon. Some day, I hope to get up the courage.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by Ogilve
Thank you everyone! I am so appreciative of the welcoming environment. I have much to learn.
As for my hesitating about AlAnon, I have my own issues to get through -- pretty typical stuff -- "how did someone like me end up HERE?" and "it seems like I'm betraying him if I go to this meeting" and so on.
I'll get through them, though. At least enough to put my foot in the door.
As for my hesitating about AlAnon, I have my own issues to get through -- pretty typical stuff -- "how did someone like me end up HERE?" and "it seems like I'm betraying him if I go to this meeting" and so on.
I'll get through them, though. At least enough to put my foot in the door.
"How did I end up here?" was an especially big one for me, too.
Work on yourself at the pace you're comfortable working on yourself, and you'll find a meeting waiting for you when you're ready to attend.
I like to tell people that it's hard to go to the first meeting, but it's easy to go to the second.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ashland Oregon
Posts: 256
I really encourage the AlAnon meetings - I was hesitant to go, too, at first. My ABF (xABF?) is relatively famous locally, and 'everyone' knew I was his girlfriend. So, duh, everyone knew he was an alcoholic too. No one has even mentioned him. Because AlAnon isn't about him - it's about me, making better decisions, one day at a time.
- Sylvie
- Sylvie
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