Mambo Queen

I have been divorced from XAH for almost 2 years now, and separated for 2.5. I have not been no contact with him except for a few periods here and there when I couldn't deal with it at all anymore...when I knew he had gone homeless, basically, and didn't want to have to deal with what he would say to me. I have helped him, enabled him, to not go homeless and to continue drinking on many an occasion. I gave him enough money in our divorce to get situated again if he were a clear thinking individual, but of course he isn't, and the money got pissed away. I helped set him up another time when he had nothing until he had a job and a place to stay (a hotel room, but still, a roof), but then he got fired for drinking and that's when my first bout of no-contact began. My second bout began when he got thrown in jail by his sister who he was living with, and then bailed out by another sister, and then went homeless for a few days until he drank himself into a heart attack, went to the er, and then went to a state-sponsored rehab driven by a friend from his first rehab. Since he got out, in April of this year, I helped him with a job that he had, which was basically a writing job that can be done from home. Actually, I had helped him with it from Feb. of that year, then just did all the work myself the month he was in the rehab. Then when he got out, I took the checks he had from that job, along with some of my own money, and helped him get a computer, and a new place to stay (again a hotel, but an extended stay one).

Since his latest set-up, courtesy of me, I have continued to help him with this job, and he has gotten another free-lance gig as well which I have not helped him with. I have backed out of his life on every other level...not calling or emailing unless it entailed the job or our daughter, but as he has gone back to drinking, the daughter calls have curtailed on his end to the point where I only maybe talk to him once a week about the writing job. I have continued to do that for him because I don't believe he has the discipline to keep the job without my help. And I don't want to have to deal with the call that says "I lost the job and I need money or I'm going to be homeless." Which he would be, because he for sure does not have anyone else to turn to, no relatives or friends are going to take him in. I have gotten that call before, and turned him down before, and to me, doing this job which I found easy was a simple solution to that problem. Now he has the money to live, and it doesn't come out of my paycheck, and he has a good reference, and so I don't have to examine it too closely...he's got a roof over his head, all is well.

Except for today he basically said (via email) if you are so willing to help me economically with this job, you should be willing to help me mentally and physically as well, by giving me a chance with you again and having sex with me again. He has never, ever, let go of the idea that we will be together again, even though I have been very clear and consistent on the fact that I don't want to be with him, that I am in fact with someone else, and I will not be having sex with him again. This all sounds so stupid to me even as I type it, but it all stems from the fact that I don't trust him to do right by himself, and I don't want him to be homeless, and I know if he loses this job I am the only person he has to hit up for money, and I don't want to put myself int he position of having to tell him, no, you can't have my money, go out on the streets. I think I would have that strength if he was drinking, but if he was sober, or fresh out of rehab, I would feel like I had to give him some monetary foothold. And since I find this job easy, and lucrative, I always viewed that as the foothold--like see, I 'm not giving you what you want, but I am giving you something because I don't want to see you destitute and miserable.

But it's gone on too long and he's not even grateful, just pissed that I won't also give him sex and companionship. So I know it has to end, but I'm scared. I'm scared he will turn to homelessness. I'm scared he won't understand that I do care about him, but can't enable him anymore. I'm scared he won't do right by himself, and that one is almost a given, because even though he could right now, with what he's been given, he won't, I can almost guarantee that.

I don't want to think of him in a homeless shelter. and miserable. but I guess I don't have a choice, because him using my free labor has to stop at some point, and I guess the point should be when he isn't even grateful for it, but is instead berating me for how I'm not tending to his emotional needs too.

And he has not ever let up, after 2.5 years, with the whole, I love you, I know you love me, I know you'll come back to me. I know it doesn't seem like it, but I have seriously told him point blank maybe 100 times that I'm not coming back to him, I don't love him romantically but I still care about him. Because I do still feel that "unconditional love" that the Cyranoak thread spoke of, but I do want very much to move on. I'm just scared that if I finally leave him to his own devices, he'll die, and die miserable, penniless, and heartbroken. And I don't know if I can bear that.

I know this is a lot of rambling, so thanks for sticking with it, and as always, any and all thoughts will be appreciated. I want so much to just let the whole situation go and live my life, but he seems to have so few survival skills I feel that he will just wither and die without my interferance. and honestly, he's so lazy I'm almost certain he will, at least in the short term. how's that for a CODIE alert?

chicory

Mambo,

You surely are caught in a web here. I understand it too. That is why i havent put my son out. but my son can surely be resourceful if he wants to. once, when his dad sent a check, he trucked his bike miles to get it cashed. but he wouldnt consider traveling on it daily to a job, that isnt close by. does not want to arrive sweaty and tired. he is 40. i am preparing an intervention of sorts, with the local mental health agency. if he does not accept the terms, he will have to be homeless.
he was in a shelter once. two years ago. he began to change his thinking. and wasnt blaming anyone else, for once. understood why he got police called on him, etc. he wasbeginning to try to do something for his self, tho it was a christian(supposedly) organization, and if you prayed, attended certain classes, you could stay in all day, instead of having to leave until 5pm. he is not sure about belief in God, so he refused to kiss butt, and i dont blame him really. he did get a job, but it was a tough situation, one shower for 30 men, and only an hour before breakfast ,to take one. but he needed to understand that his lack of self reliance had gotten him there.
it was hard on me, to think of him there, but i had no choice. he had no choice. he was drinking and abusive, verbally, so he had to leave, and lived in his car, etc. hard times.
now, i face it all again.
will your x go to any recovery programs? what about if you refuse to help him, unless he does go to aa or something? the homeless shelters are filled with women and children too, so, these men are not the only ones fearing it.
how are you going to continue this way? perhaps an intervention of sorts would make a difference. ultimatums, with a plan. i can understand why he keeps hoping that you might take him back. he sees you unable to turn away, and perhaps thinks this means more .
i am so sorry you are in this position. was he ever able to keep a job? has he had some mental health evaluation? perhaps talking with them might help you too, as you probably feel as i do, that you are stuck forever. there has to be a way, there is a way, but are we prepared to live with the consequences, and resume our lives, even if they choose to pi$$ theirs away?

feeling for you,
chicory

Freedom1990

He doesn't have to be self-sufficient in all areas because of what you do for him.

It is possible to love someone to death.

Where does he find any dignity when his entire job/living situation is dictated by you?

By robbing the A of opportunities for growth, we are enablers.

I no longer rob my AD of the opportunities for growth should she make the decision to seize them.

dollydo

To me, he will never understand because you are sending him mixed signals. On one hand, you want a life of your own and on the other you are still totally enmeshed in his.
I understand why he thinks you will get back with him. I would too.

The longer you keep enabling him, the longer it will be before he reaches his bottom, and has any chance whatsoever at recovery. You are trying to control his life, and he is a willing participant. You treat him as a child and for some reason do not want him to grow up and become a responsibile adult.

My exabf always waivers between having a roof over his head or being on the street. That is his choice, I am not responsible for his behavior or problems, he is 46 years old, an adult, and he is my ex, meaning, out of, not, former.

Don't have any real advice, however, if it were me, I would consider going into therapy.

Best of luck to you!

Seren

(((Mambo Queen))) How can he let you go if you cannot let him go?

I hope and pray things will get better for you soon.

Jazzman

Why do you do this? What is the payoff for you? You know the healthiest thing to do is no contact but you just can't get there on a consistent basis. As soon as you decide he has no other recourse you swoop in and rescue him. It must be satisfying a need you have on either a conscious or subconscious level?

I would try to get tot he bottom of that. Maybe a skilled therapist could help you out? I think a recovery board will do little more than frustrate you.

Freedom1990

I also wanted to add that any decisions I have made that are fear-based have always backfired on me.

LexieCat

I think Jazz has an interesting idea. How about getting some INDIVIDUAL support for yourself from a therapist? Someone who will work with you, one-on-one, to help you to let go of your need to constantly "be there" for someone with whom you are enmeshed in an unhealthy way?

You KNOW what you need to do, you just can't seem to DO it. It's obvious that you know, you spelled it all out here. You've been posting here for a long time, gotten the feedback, but somehow it isn't enough to get you to DO.

Give it a shot--find a therapist who will listen to you, accept that your goal is to extricate yourself from this unproductive and unhealthy situation, and work with you to achieve it.

Mambo Queen

Well, I guess this is the part where I pathetically state that I have been in therapy, once a week, the entire time since my separation. And that I still go. Believe it or not, I do feel I've gotten better with the situation. I've gone from feeling scared to have my ex find out when I was doing things with my boyfriend and really feeling like maybe he would get sober if I would just give him a chance, to knowing that I don't want to be back with him, that he would not get sober with my "love", and really limiting contact with him. I don't worry about it nearly as much as I used to. But is it really so difficult to understand why I would find it difficult knowing he is homeless and penniless? In the past, when he has found himself in that situation, he has ramped up the desperation by calling me a million times at work (I have no way of blocking his calls there), a million times at home (which I ignored), and getting his sister to call me on his behalf. Now, I ignored these calls as much as I could, but it was still hard. Although I did it. Then, both times, when he was truly homeless, he went into rehab. But of course, when he got out of rehab with nowhere to go, no job, and no money, he turned to me for help again. And I have not been able to be strong enough to refuse his help when he was sober, so both times I helped. And both times he stayed sober for a while. And now he's again back at square one. Why do I feel the need to help? Because if I was a person fresh out of rehab, I would have my parents to help me. Or a few of my friends, whose places I could stay at until I got back on my feet. He doesn't have that, and it makes me sad, so that emotion feels so uncomfortable I help him in that scenario.

I think for me what I really need to realize is that I HAVE given him the help a compassionate friend would give him, a few times, and that HE has pissed the opportunity away, so now HE has to rely on just himself, because clearly, my help isn't helping.

Can I just say one last thing? I know I must be annoying with this, because I have posted about this exact dilemma before. That is why I was so glad to read Chicory's post, because she seems to have the same kind of yucky emotions surrounding her son's scenario as I do with my XAH. But I do still want people's advice about this or I wouldn't post here. I know I have been stuck on this issue for a while. But I don't think I'm the only person on these boards that is still not where they want to be with regards to the A in their life. And I did divorce him. And I have limited contact with him. I know my progress is slow, but it still feels like progress to me.

LexieCat

I think we all understand those "yucky emotions" but still, you aren't able to do what you say you want to do.

When the alcoholic "wants" to stop drinking, the only way to do it is to DO it. Seriously. To the extent they wait until they feel "OK" about it, they will NEVER stop. Because it NEVER will feel "OK" to stop drinking. Usually the alcoholic has to hit some kind of bottom--a point of desperation (physical, emotional, mental, whatever) where they cannot imagine going on as they have.

Al-Anons also seem to have to hit a point of desperation before they are able to truly let go. Maybe you haven't hit that point. You are still "OK" with things as they are--maybe not great, but not bad enough to do what intellectually you know you should do.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked others: What if you were to drop dead tomorrow? Would he not find some way to survive, at least long enough to get help if he wants to? You are thinking of yourself as the only lifeline he has. Wrong. There is a whole network of social services designed to provide the same kind of assistance you are providing. BUT it will be HIS responsibility to take advantage of them. Those services will not be spoon-fed to him as you do.

Don't you think he is capable of doing what he needs to do? Isn't he choosing not to because you are willing to do it with minimal effort on his part?

Mambo Queen

Thanks for that reply, LexieCat. I like that question a lot, actually. It does help me to realize that I'm not really the only life line that's available, just the easiest.

Freedom1990

That is exactly what my AD did when no one was enabling her anymore. She turned to the resources through social services out there.

He's got a higher power too, and you're not it, Mambo Queen.

I didn't let go of my AD either until I was battered and bleeding emotionally.

Apparently you aren't there yet.

Sending you hugs of support.

chicory

Mambo,

I know how you feel. I hate to post sometimes, fearing that I am annoying others simply because I have not followed their advice yet. As Lexie said, some of us have to reach our bottom, before we can let them go.

Don't feel so badly about yourself, or your inability to stop helping. I found that a few of the ones who came down so hard on me, were actually not taking their own advice. Only a couple of people, but it made me realize that there are those who struggle as I do, yet dont admit it. We get there when we get there. That was told me a few times, when i expressed feeling badly about my weakness in this situation.

I cannot understand why some will twist the fact that we are tender hearted, and cannot say no, to someone without any other means, or so we feel. They will make it sound like you are getting some sick satisfaction somehow, some power from the control. that could not be farther from the truth. these people cannot shame me into doing what they believe is right. i don't trust those who shame others.

I realize that I am sick from being in this situation. and that I need help. I believe that sometimes it is like that. we need professional help, to figure out how to get out of this trap. and we dont want to let go without trying to help.

I contacted the local mental health organization, and NAMI, and am talking with them about myself, and my son. They have given me some very good ideas, and none of them have been the sort to say "throw him out". they encourage getting together information, numbers, and programs that we can offer to this person we care about, perhaps using interventions of some sort, with family. If they choose, they can reach out to these sources, and save themselves. they can get treatment, if they wish. they will have someone to call, and they will know that we are taking ourselves out of the equation.

I was so afraid of throwing my son out, and mentioned to my daughter, that it was like taking a child, throwing him in the ocean, and hoping he would learn to swim. My wise girl said, "NO mom, it is like throwing him out into the ocean, when he can swim, and where there are life preservers that he can catch onto. And it will be his choice to catch onto them or not."

They probably become so dependent on us, and they probably feel like they can't do it their selves, for we must not think so. I am struggling with being able to see that he is resourceful, and can do things. and he will get his dignity back, even if he chooses crummy things, he will be the master of his fate- good or bad.

I will give him information on options- treatment centers, dual diagnosis ones too, and local shelters, and the programs they offer. If he does not use those, then that is his choice.But i will know that i helped all i could, and that he has information about help, should he want to change his life.

What I am doing now is not working, and is hurting him more. And I can't let that continue. I know that it is going to be a long battle for him, I am not wearing rose colored glasses, and thinking that this will solve things for him. But it will help me, and it is the only healthy thing i can do for him. and it does hurt, but I want him to have a chance, and I want peace. This is no life for him or me.

hugs
chicory

Ladybug0130

I guess I have become cold-hearted because my STBXAH has become such a monster that I am okay with him being homeless if he so chooses, since he has been offered all the help in the world and won't take it. But, I digress...

I think you know that you have to let this go and let the chips fall where they may, it's just creating a bad situation for you, and like you say, he feels so entitled. That's the problem, he will just take and expect more and more from you. To a normal person, you think, the NERVE of that man to act as if you owe him sex and companionship since you are already helping him keep a job, but to an alcoholic, it makes total sense that you should help him, since in his mind a lot of the bad things that have happened to him are probably your fault anyway!

You know what you have to do, but like with so many things in life, the problem is actually doing it. That's a problem for everyone.

dollydo

Mambo,

I see that you are in therapy. What does the therapist have to say about what you are doing?

Just curious, as I too, was in therapy for a few years learning how to correct my codependcy/enabling issues.

TakingCharge999

Hi MQ!

Some humble ideas -

Perhaps try a different therapist? I don't know MQ, my mom had one and went for 10 years yet I still see many destructive patterns. I say this from my point of view here, where I see you have repeated behaviors for months now. Perhaps other techniques would help. I know at times, rationally everything makes sense, but we are tied to people in subconscious/emotional ways and those ties are the ones who keep us in "our place".

Perhaps the fear is not that he won't be able to cope without you and die - but quite the contrary,

that he will be totally fine without you;
perhaps even better (even seek sobriety);
perhaps even get emotionally healthier;
perhaps get a "new" partner (just like you?);
perhaps live the life you imagined with him, only with someone else and "after all you did for him" (martyrdom)?
perhaps then, you would have no option but to let him go and his life would no longer be up to you?


My impression here is that you are getting a false sense of importance by playing the "healthy one" "the one that has it together and poor him not doing anything right". Perhaps you believe only one of you can get happiness and its you, so he has to be stuck? if without your help, he recovers and is happy, would that take something away from you?

Behind codependency lies a huge sense of grandiosity, in my view. I truly hope you can let go one day soon.

BTW asking for sex is low.
Just 2 cents. I hope the best for you MQ. Hope this didn't sound blunt or offensive.

Jazzman

I can see you've made progress and recognize and validate your pain, experience and growth. I'll also say I feel you have gone way above and beyond by any reasonably compassionate persons expectations for your ex. I drew the line in the sand a couple times with Mel. I know why I did it, I didn't want to be seen as the bad guy. I gave her more chances than she deserved and that cost me plenty in the long run.

You are not his only recourse for help, he will always have the free of charge Salvation Army or a host of free faith based recovery programs available to him. My sisters ex attended no less than three different free of charge faith based long term recovery programs, (who is currently homeless some where in the continental US)

I've said it before, my heart goes out to parents that post here because I could get divorced and move on. I have no idea how I would handle it if one of my sons was the addict in my life.

transformyself

I think you're amazing. Really.

I think you're balancing good boundaries with compassion in a way that you are comfortable. Clearly you're making progress, again, at your own pace.

Some folks snap and say that's it and cut off all contact. It's simply not realistic for all of us to behave the same, or think we should all behave the same. To me, the whole path of recovery is summed up on one word: boundaries. YOUR freaking boundaries. Not mine or any one else's.

I know there are folks here that would harshly judge me if I were to tell every detail of my slowly changing relationship with AH, that's why i and hundreds of others don't post honestly! Even on this anonymous site.

So just keep being kind to yourself and moving that boundary line where it does the best to help you heal. You've always been an inspiration to me Mambo. Thank you for posting so honestly.

Love, Transform

Fandy

I've read through this thread and some others you have posted about your ongoing struggle. one thing that jumped out at me was that you were "scared" at one time that he would find out your activities with your current BF.

from my perspective it shows a lack of respect for your current relationship and that your X has a tremendous power and very strong tenicles...(like an octopuss)....he's choking the life out you....and your are letting him.

I'm willing to bet that if you simply cut off your contact with him for an EXTENDED period (say 6-8 months), and concentrated just on your needs and current relationship...he would find someone else to latch onto with a chokehold. And you would be happier, with a lot more $$ and feel less stressed.

I know it's easier said than done, but he is using you to get exactly what he wants.

chicory

Oh my gosh TC. I think that I can speak for Mambo and myself, in saying that we would be so freaking thankful if these things actually happened!!! I am sorry Mambo, for presuming that you feel as I do. please correct me if i am wrong.

sorry TC- but I do not understand how anyone can think this of those who are helping, out of fear of the persons death or homelessness.

are you saying that people who run homeless shelters are doing it in order to keep the homeless dependent on them?
or that they don't want them to get better?

We may not be doing the best thing for this person, but perhaps this person is preying on our limitless compassion, and our fear for them. Perhaps that is why my son is using me to a great degree, and so it seems the same for Mambo. Some people are an easier mark.

I think that people who do control their loved one,by making them dependent on them, are not going to be on this site, trying to get help. they are probably as happy as clams, and not wanting anything to change.

I would be so very happy if my son were well and able to take care of his self. I pray each night for this situation to be helped and changed. I don't want him to be thrown away, tho.
If throwing people out , and making them homeless would make them get their lives together, there would not be many homeless would there?
sometimes they need mental help, and may not be able to get it without someone championing their cause. I wont stop helping until I feel that it is a detriment to him.

I dont know why people are so anxious to see someone thrown out. Do they get some sick satisfaction from that? Do they perhaps want this person to be homeless? Will this give them a sense of superiority?

See, we can ask crazy things too. And how would it feel if someone attributed less than good intentions to your suggestions? How does it feel to have to defend yourself on a public forum?