stella27

The hard truth for me was ultimately very simple, and I think it applies to most relationships with alcoholics:

They are going to lie and manipulate. They are going to accuse and possibly abuse you when you threaten the addiction.

They are going to do this to WHOMEVER they are in a relationship with.

All the helping, all the support, all the loving them comes down to one simple choice:

YOU get to decide if you want that person to be YOU.

Panther

While I do agree with most of your post - many alcoholics are controlling and abusive and they do not make for good partners, I disagree with the last part of it.

I think that you can still love the addicted person no matter what. You can still be there for them even if it is at a safer distance than a romantic relationship.

I think it is a mistake to frame this in an Either, Or decision. Either you stay with the person and suffer the alcoholism with them ... Or you leave. There are other options, and yes there are alcoholics who get sober. I have several cousins who were alcoholics who are all now sober. One has his PhD now, one is happily married with a big family, and the other owns a very successful restaurant.

I understand the bitterness on the threads. I know where it comes from. But, to be quite honest, it can become a little exhausting to read time and time again.

Panther

Fandy

BTW, I am an alcoholic, i stopped drinking in 2010. i am not manipulative, rude,or abusive....i may be controlling but I run a department for over 250 medical students...I am in charge of their welfare.

I read this portion of the forums to try to get insight to Mr. Fandy (#3) who has gambling addiction issues....sometimes it's helpful. Mr. Fandy #1 died in 2009 due to his alcoholism, (we were divorced, long before I started to drink). i sometimes post about a horrible long-drawn out abusive marriage that I couldn't escape fast enough.

I'm sympathetic to many of you and the terrible struggles you write about. but sometimes I feel like the stand is very rigid...and maybe you have to be that way, IDK, it's not for me to judge, but to read is very helpful.

fedup3

Fandy, I know a number of alcoholics but very few recovering ones so I am so impressed with you and can not even imagine the hard work it took and takes every day for you to remain recovered. Yes, you're right we agree our lives have become unmanageable and probably the reason the threads sound like they do.

bonami

The one advantage I guess I have is that I do not have to live with my RA friend, but only work with him. He always behaved well at work until his recent binge, when he disappeared for several days and which ultimately caused him to enter rehab. But I don’t have any idea how he behaved at home. I know his wife was threatening divorce, so it’s possible his behavior there was similar to what many of you here have experienced with your A's; not something I could ever imagine he would be capable of, but possible given what I am learning about this disease. He’s currently in recovery and from what I hear (second-hand-he still hasn't contacted me but that's another thread), he is done with rehab and doing alright, although he’s apparently not ready to come back to work full-time yet.

I am hoping he turns out to be one of the success stories like Fandy…

Fandy

please don't pat me on the back too much, because i am far from purrrfect...(just ask the cats)...I've had some slips, dips and flips that can lead to a 2 day pity-party. but for ME, that meant I allow my depression to take over and spend the day drinking feeling sorry for myself. After the 3rd time this happened, i began to chart what was a trigger for me.

Again, I stress that I am not rude, manipulative and abusive unless you count making myself sick...I'm one of those people that like to drink alone, not socially.

stella27

It's just based on my experience and it struck me after reading the millionth post (many of them my own!) about "he's saying this" and "he's saying that" and "what can I do" and "am I wrong or is he?"

It's just the point I got to living with active alcoholism, and since then, watching my AXH work his magic on the remaining enablers in his life. Without treatment, the self-centered behavior continues, and I had to decide whether I wanted that in my life.

I don't think I am bitter. I loved my husband and I am sorry our situation came down to what it did, but I spent so much time blaming myself and working myself into contortions trying to combat something that was never mine or about me in the first place.

that's all I am saying.

LaTeeDa

One of the most important things I've learned in recovery (took me long enough!) is that relationships are a choice. I have no obligation to continue any relationship with anyone if it's not working for me. That includes spouse, family, friends, or acquaintances. Doesn't matter if they are alcoholics/addicts or not. People who aren't addicted can behave unacceptably, too. I don't have to allow it in my life, regardless of WHO it is or WHAT their excuse is.

L

Fandy

I was bitter, angry(and still am sometimes) that Mr. Fandy chose the ponies over our LT live in relationship. it boggles my mind and i feel as frustrated as some of you sound....(reading all the information, I sometimes insert the word betting for drinking)

it so obviously led to huge financial problems, IRS penalties and dissolving his retirement $$$. But nope, he still thinks he is "winning". ID get it, win $1600.00 and pay the IRS $33,000 and you think you are on top of things? 3 mortgages on a condo you bought in 1984 and you are still paying taxes, upside down on the mortgage, max out the credit cards, driving a 12 year old car????

but then to quote someone who posted yesterday, I'm one of the "lucky ones...I never married him", I tossed him out of my house, I got sober and turn my drinking $$$ into double mortgage payments and a brand new bathroom remodel....all since Feb. 2010.

I appreciate you letting me vent.

lillamy

Oh absolutely. The question is, still -- if nothing changes, are you willing to be in the relationship to the alcoholic that you are now for the rest of your life?

Of course there are the ones who recover fully -- we have many of them here. But if they don't -- are you still willing to be there and support them while they lie, manipulate and eat you alive?

I wasn't.

jamaicamecrazy

Oh absolutely. The question is, still -- if nothing changes, are you willing to be in the relationship to the alcoholic that you are now for the rest of your life?

unfortunately I was...until he became a different person and decided that I was the person controlling him, making his choices, putting him down, disrespecting him, and that he was not going to put any effort into our marriage. I was devastated. It was the anger and the verbal abuse that I was not willing to live with. Now we have been separated for over a year and guess what? He still blames me for his life not going the way he wants.
Still not sure how much of it was the progression of his disease or mine. However now I can see more clearly that this person is not someone who I can have a healthy relationship with. He has become that manipulative, abusive person.

m1k3

I left my AW of 36 years. It was an incredibly difficult and painful decision. Even though it was finally clear that leaving hurt less than staying.

Stella was sharing her experience and her feelings. A big part of what this forum is here for. Why don't you share your experiences of how you are handling your relationship with your A and how you are dealing with their alcoholism without leaving?

Your friend,

Cyranoak

Excellent observation Mike and very useful for the OP and others... you keep this up and you'll be a Jedi in no time and snatching the pebble from The Master's hand (and I'm definitely NOT The Master). It seems you are taking to recovery like a duck to water. And you aren't even close to being an ******* like me while doing it- I can barely even understand how that's done.

Good work my friend.

Cyranoak

Panther

She shared her feelings, I shared mine. You are sharing yours.

Panther

stella27

that sums up my experience. Even after he walked out on me and 3 little children on vacation and left us to fly home alone, it's still all my fault, 2 years later.

bitter? actually I rejoice in my recognition that I had the ability to still have a great life. an easier one, actually. I have been liberated.

m1k3

Stella, take credit where credit is due.

Fixed that 4 ya.

Your friend,

yorkiegirl

". . .it was finally clear that leaving hurt less than staying." (m1k3)

It takes some of us a looong time to get there. It did for me. I think I saw somewhere in a post about "The difference between a codie and a pitbull is that a pitbull knows when to let go." (I think you may have posted that one too, Mike). I laughed. The laughter was a mix of sarcasm at myself, sadness, and a sense of relief. I so identified with that comparison to a pitbull!

Until my RAH found sobriety and recovery, I focused on him, not myself so I studied alcoholism, tried to find all of the ways to "help" alcoholics, etc. I just felt so much for the A & wanted to champion 'the cause' for him/for them . . . until it started to take a toll on me. (I think being an ACOA has a lot to do with this, wanting/needing to be the A's greatest advocate against this oh so unjust world.) But I do remember reading or hearing about how the pain of drinking has to exceed the pain of not drinking (or something like that) for alcoholics, in order to stop and to get help. I never thought about this for myself as a codie. I remember coming across "Co-dependent No More" and Co-dependent 12-step programs and brushing them off like "What is this? Another new psychology fad here? Pffft!"

I didn't really realize I needed to focus on me. By focusing on the A, I didn't have to deal with me. It makes me sad now (for myself) when I think back. I just kept focusing on him (his drinking, his smoking pot, his irresponsibility, his lies, his lack of follow-through, his health, his well-being, his everything. . . ) Before I knew it, insanity had wrapped itself around me and I was not seeing, thinking clearly. I didn't realize it for myself. My reality (crumbling all around me) finally forced it upon me (or so it felt) to say, "I failed. I can't do it anymore." It had finally become clear for me that leaving (as hard as it was) hurt less than staying with my AH in active alcoholism. I thought I was queen of the codies, but I too was capable of leaving.

We are back together --my husband & I-- after being separated for two years, *but* we are both in recovery (some days more consciously and actively, while other days not so active & conscious, struggling). I waited for my RAH to have one year of recovery under his belt before moving back home. That first year (first few months) of his recovery were really hard because it forced me to look inside of me, dig into myself & deal with my own co-dependency. I detached a lot and I hated, resented "detachment." (conscious detachment as a tool) I'm much better at it now. The better I get at it, the less I seem to need to detach.

It's hard to believe there was a time when "leaving" just didn't seem like an option for me.

stepsforward

yorkiegirl, what a great road to recovery for YOU and RAH. God Bless you and may you continue down that road

hwsm

My rational mind tells me that I can't accept this into my life. It's my heart that tells me maybe......just maybe. I'm trying to listen the the brain - and my friends & family. Thanks for your post.

Babyblue

I do get your point but there are varying degrees of what you are pointing out. Accuse and abuse are pretty strong words and I've not experienced that.