Getting married, & scared

Old 07-06-2011, 05:25 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Occasional poor taste poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by salamand View Post
And who he used to be. I've known him a long time though we were out of touch for awhile. Things are perfect between us most of the time...I really believe and everyone says we were made for each other.
I knew Mel from when we were kids growing up in the same neighbor hood and previous dating history. Who she had turned into twenty years later had nothing to do with who she was (according to my crystal ball). Surely it was because she was dealing with a horrible divorce from jerk of an ex husband (because I'm so much better and it will be different this time). I rationalized her occasional heavy drinking was due to that temporary situational stress (denying the reality staring me in the face). Surely I could alleviate that stress for her and remove all obstacles to our happiness (arrogantly assume I could fix all her problems and shape the future).

I was wrong.
Jazzman is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:44 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
You shouldNOT be "scared" to marry anyone.....Fear and apprehension should not be anywhere in the mix for spending the rest of your life with someone....I can understand your concerns for $$ and plans...but PLEASE believe me when I tell you that it is a LOT more difficult and expensive to divorce than it is to lose your deposits...and you cannot put a price on your emotional well-being and upset.

postpone and see what happens perhaps a year from now....change your plans for another trip and switch the deposit to that trip...go by yourself and get some rest...do not worry about others opinions...this is the rest of your life and happiness involved...if you cannot walk away, try taking a step back...if it was someone else what would you tell them????
if he's breaking furniture and items, one day he WILL start on you, i would bet $$ on it...I asked a drunken husband to "turn down the TV" and "feed the cat"....this enraged him, he pinned me to the couch and tried to choke me....it was "my fault"....I got the restraining order the next day and served the papers soon after...I had a 5 year old.

this sounds like something you can not deal with with the pressure of a wedding in 2 months.
Fandy is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:14 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Member
 
tjp613's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Have you been honest with YOUR parents about this situation?

If you were my daughter I wouldn't give a flying **** about the money. Your happiness and welfare would be my ONLY concern.
tjp613 is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:13 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I strongly suggest, no matter how hard it is, that you put the wedding on "indefinite hold". If you think things are scary and upsetting now, imagine how much worse if you are legally tied to him with no way out except one involving a possible legal battle?

If you want to try to stick around to see whether things will get better, I hope you will do so without the nuptials.

Meantime, I suggest you educate yourself as much as possible about alcoholism, and that you start going to Al-Anon meetings.
LexieCat is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:46 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
 
Eight Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Hi Salamand and welcome to SR,

I have had a quick read through everyone responses but I dont think anyone has touched on the bit of your post that stood out to me. It stood out to me because it is something that I am coming to terms with.

Originally Posted by salamand View Post
now he is almost always mean, insulting, and sometimes violent, never violent towards me but has destroyed things in the house. The last time he went out drinking all night and did not even come home, but called and texted me all night about how it was my fault and how angry he was at me and how everyone in his life had let him down and that was my fault too for not understanding, in between him saying that he loved me one minute and insults the next. When he came home he didn't remember anything he'd said or done most of the night. He still seems to think it's my fault and wants me to just let go all the personal attacks and doubts he's put out there.
Your 'husband to be' is abusive IMO (insulting and mean). At the moment it sounds like it is mostly verbal abuse, but he is showing signs of becoming a violent abuser too e.g. by destroying things in the house. I know we are on a sober recovery website for alcoholics but sometimes the two completely separate problems come hand in hand.

I have just left my AH of 23yrs because he was an alcoholic but also because he was verbally abusive too.

The verbal abuse started very early on in our relationship and marriage (we met at 15yrs old, married at 22yrs) and nearly always when he had been drinking. I listened to put downs, insults and to begin with I would argue back but then I 'learnt' not to respond to his negative comments towards me as he would eventually stop quicker if I didn't, whilst I cried myself to sleep. I also told myself that it was the beer talking and he didn't mean it.

My therapist explained to me that alcoholism and abuse are two completely separate issues. Not all alcoholics abuse and not all abusers are alcoholics. My therapist had worked in prisons, where many prisoners would 'blame' their crimes on drinking. She explained that a lot of people drink but dont rob banks or beat their wives. We all have core morals and values that make us the persons that we are. Our moral values are the standards of good and evil and governs our behavior and choices.

When my AH began to verbally abuse me, he didn't have his internal morals and values telling him that it is wrong to treat woman that way and to him it was acceptable or at least became acceptable. More alarmingly, it became acceptable to me too.

Even if my AH stopped drinking, he would still likely abuse me (maybe less as he wouldn't have the alcohol to loosen his lips) because his morals and values are obviously so poor in that area.

I am currently reading a book by Lundy Bancroft called 'Why Does He Do That?' it has a chapter in it about addiction and abuse that says it much better than me.

What I am trying to say is that you have two serious problems to face if you choose the journey of marriage with this man. It took me 18 months of therapy, Al-anon and SR to realise that I am important and deserve better.

At 45yrs old, I am living on my own for the first time in my life. I still love my AH (I feel let down by him), I still wish he would stop drinking, I wish he had chosen me and not alcohol, but I know that even if the alcohol wasn't a problem anymore then his morals, values and the abuse would be. It a double issue of which both need to be addressed and coming out of a 23yr marriage to an alcoholic, abusive and controlling man, I certainly wouldn't start from that point.

Save yourself a lot of heartache to come.
Eight Ball is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:20 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 837
"If I try to confront him directly he walks away and won't speak to me."
Denial is one of the symptoms of Alcoholism and blaming someone or something else for why they drink is another. Here is something you need to think about and that is you can not stop him from drinking it has to come from him and only him. So many of us here suffer from trying to detach so we are trying to recover ourselves.

Be good to yourself and to him because your thinking is a lot clearer than his that's why you found this site.
fedup3 is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:13 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7
"Let alone the question later down the road.., WELL, WHY DID YOU MARRY HIM, if you knew he drank like that???"

mmhmm, true enough.



"Have you been honest with YOUR parents about this situation?"

No, I haven't talked to anyone about it in case word got around. Don't want him to have problems at work or be looked at differently.



"Your fiance has a very serious disease. It is NOT psychological. It is NOT because he has mental issues. It IS a physical, genetically based disease, that he did not ask for and did not expect to get. There have been countless studies that prove this point."

To me cancer or another disease would be completely different because then we'd be fighting it together. I quit smoking so I know how hard it is, but if he had the motivation it is possible. I'd do anything to help him out, but there is nothing apparently that I can do except either decide to stay or leave. Accepting him as he is makes sense. I could live with it unless it gets worse. Spoke to him point blank yesterday, instead of saying "I know it's none of my business, but..." I just said, do you think you can quit or not? He said if it would make me happy he would. Never said that before, so I'm taking it as a very good sign, but will wait for time to tell. Don't have the nerve to call of the wedding unless he'd said he wouldn't try. Actions would be much better than words but I guess only time will tell.



"At 45yrs old, I am living on my own for the first time in my life. I still love my AH (I feel let down by him), I still wish he would stop drinking, I wish he had chosen me and not alcohol, but I know that even if the alcohol wasn't a problem anymore then his morals, values and the abuse would be. It a double issue of which both need to be addressed and coming out of a 23yr marriage to an alcoholic, abusive and controlling man, I certainly wouldn't start from that point."

You're right, I really hadn't thought of that. I'm sorry for what you went through. Can't imagine 23 years of it.
Is there anyone who WOULD do it again even knowing what you know now?
salamand is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:26 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
RIP Sweet Suki
 
suki44883's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,726
Alcoholics lie. They manipulate. They say whatever they think you want to hear so you'll just STFU already. His words mean absolutely nothing. You can choose to believe that he'll quit drinking if it will make you happy. He won't. I can promise you that. None of us have any reason to lie to you. It doesn't affect our lives in any way if you marry an alcoholic. You came here asking for our advice and we've given it freely. You'll do whatever you want to do. If you want to be married badly enough, you'll marry someone who you already have reservations about. It's a guarantee though...things will get much worse.
suki44883 is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:29 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by salamand View Post
You're right, I really hadn't thought of that. I'm sorry for what you went through. Can't imagine 23 years of it.
Is there anyone who WOULD do it again even knowing what you know now?
20 years of it here, and two children.

If I could have a do-over on only ONE thing in my life, getting married would be it. When I think about how much further ahead I should/could be financially right now, at the age of almost 49, it makes me sick. That's something no one has brought up so far. Being married to an alcoholic is VERY expensive. So is divorcing one. Go ahead and have a relationship with him if you want, but giving him ownership of half your assets, present and future, is not a good idea IMHO.

Yeah, it will get worse. More so than you can even imagine right now.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:39 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7
"define WORSE for me......"

Yeah, I know. It has only been once in the past five or six months so I guess that's what I meant, if it was only once in a while or if it continued to get better.

Right, I know you're all being honest and have no reason to lie and I'm very grateful for your help... I'm still thinking about what to do and should think more before mentioning it again as I'm just going in circles. Never before considered calling it off so it is taking a minute to come to grips with it.
salamand is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:42 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Member
 
Happiness Fairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 49
I would do over in a heart beat if I could still have my kids!

I would not wish this tortured existence on ANYONE. My motivation for finally leaving him was my kids. I didn't want them to grow up believing that this is normal - it's not.

Somebody made reference to the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. Amazing book - you truly should read it. Your current situation sounds so familiar to mine it's spooky. Truly listen to what you read here - it doesn't get better! I hoped for four years and it only got progressively worse! I realized there was some real anger issues in addition to drinking when we had to go home early from being out w/ friends because our middle child wasn't breathing well and my mom called us home. He punched a wall!!!! Turned out that he actually broke his hand. Hmmm... scary stuff... I kept thinking that could be me or one of the kids some day.
Happiness Fairy is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:05 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
Member
 
Lunakim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 24
I feel for you i really do. I am in the same boat as you but went thru with the wedding. Contact me if you want to talk off the record
Lunakim is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:29 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
Member
 
m1k3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Look, do or don't do. You asked for advice and you got it.

Take what you want and leave the rest.
m1k3 is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:47 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Occasional poor taste poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Why not live together first? Give it a long engagement period. No reason to rush things unless you're in a hurry to have kids?!?

Originally Posted by salamand View Post
Is there anyone who WOULD do it again even knowing what you know now?
My second marriage was to an alcoholic. We had two good years then two really bad years. I don't regret the relationship but I do regret getting married. That cost me a butt load of money that I'll be paying off for years, or until I sell this house.

Slow down, stick around and read, learn all you can about addiction and what you face as a loved one. Knowledge is power.
Jazzman is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:48 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
Member
 
theuncertainty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Welcome to SR, Salamand. It has been so hard for me reading through your posts. I’ve read a bit, read the responses, gone back and read more of your post, read the responses, read more of your post… This thread is what I SHOULD have written about 10 years ago; I wish I’d had the clarity to find this board or something like it and lay everything out and ask questions during our engagement and not after nearly 10 years of marriage, because your post has a lot of the same red flags that I can see now when I look backwards.

Has he taken any responsibility after his angry outburst(s) for his behavior? Apologizing doesn’t necessarily count, nor do *promises* to not do it again. Saying “I’m sorry” is cheap and easy; it doesn’t cost anything, just like it doesn't cost an alcoholic anything to say "I can stop".

Some one who is truly remorseful for their actions does not expect the person they hurt to “just let it go.” Some one who is truly remorseful will understand that time will be needed to rebuild the trust they broke by hurting you (verbally, emotionally or physically). Some one who is truly remorseful will give you that time, even if they don’t understand why you need “so much” time.

I'm sorry for what you went through. Can't imagine 23 years of it.
I’m not sure how to say this but bluntly: I get the feeling you might have missed the point of EightBall’s post. (perhaps I’m mistaken, though) I don't think she was laying it all out there to show you how bad 23 years of her life were, but to show how it progressed from him being a guy who hurled occasional insults while drunk to being a controlling and abusive alcoholic.

He said if it would make me happy he would. Never said that before, so I'm taking it as a very good sign, but will wait for time to tell.
This is so… shaky. He’s putting all the onus of his success at recovery on you, not on himself. Nor does it sound like a promise to quit. It just sounds like an IF…THEN statement.

Keep on reading and posting. I hope you’re able to do the introspective work and find your answers before the wedding date. Because, IMO, no one should go into starting a marriage with a sense of obligation but with a feeling of joy and hope for what the future together holds.
theuncertainty is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:30 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
Member
 
kittykitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
"He'll quit drinking if it will make you happy"

This will be used against you in a future argument, he will remind you how he has given up so much to make you happy. This is called manipulation.

He can't quit drinking for you, or for his parents, or for anyone else. He has to want to quit himself in order for it to actually stick. And it's obvious he doesn't want to. Are you expecting him not to drink on your wedding night? On your honeymoon? That's alot to ask of someone who seems to enjoy the booze as much as he does.

You've already stated that he has told you to love him the way he is. So if you don't love him the way he is, right now, then don't marry him. If you do love him the way he is now, then get married and have a wonderful life together.

I think the most important question to ask yourself is, why do you think you should settle for someone who goes out all night and doesn't come home, and when he does blames you for all of his problems, gets violent, and breaks things? Why is it okay that he drives drunk, and puts his own lives and the lives of others at risk? (Imagine your future child in the back seat of his car while he is doing this) Why is this acceptable to you? Are you under the impression that he is the best that you can do? I'd like to tell you that you deserve more than this as a life partner. We all do, all of us here have come to this realization at some point in our journey... we just deserve more. Some of us took longer to realize this than others.

I understand that 'most of the time' he is perfect. Are you going to be satisfied living a life and raising a family with someone who is only there 80% of the time? As others have said here, it will get worse, it always does, so eventually that percentage will drop, and the "not perfect" percentage will rise.

I hope you don't feel obligated to marry him, simply because a few thousand dollars have been put down already. Take some time, there is no hurry. If he truly loves you and is worth keeping, he'll understand, and give you all the time that you need.
kittykitty is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by salamand View Post
I'd do anything to help him out, but there is nothing apparently that I can do except either decide to stay or leave. Accepting him as he is makes sense. I could live with it unless it gets worse. Spoke to him point blank yesterday, instead of saying "I know it's none of my business, but..." I just said, do you think you can quit or not? He said if it would make me happy he would. Never said that before, so I'm taking it as a very good sign, but will wait for time to tell. Don't have the nerve to call of the wedding unless he'd said he wouldn't try. Actions would be much better than words but I guess only time will tell.
People "in recovery" have what I like to call an impulse to punish - they want to punish the "bad" alcoholics so that they hit their bottom faster and get into recovery - which is why people are telling you to leave now. You don't necessarily need to do that, though, and it won't help either of you.

You can tell him that you will not marry him unless he gives up drinking for good. Zero tolerance. He has two months to prove it, but you could even postpone the wedding. This could provide the necessary wake-up call he needs to reflect on what is happening to him, and to protect you as well. If you really want to make it stick, you can have an attorney draft a pre-nuptual agreement that gives you certain protections (ie, the house, etc) if he goes back to drinking.

In the meantime, get a copy of the book "Under the Influence" by James R. Milam, read it, and make him read it. It will clarify a lot of things, for both of you.

There are various avenues to "recovery", some of which you will not find mentioned on most recovery forums, but feel free to PM me.
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:53 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
Member
 
Thumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I also married a man that I had reservations about. We had been living together and I wanted children so we got married. I thought it wouldn't matter, I thought I could live with it, I thought I could just walk away if it got bad enough, I thought I could work around it, I thought he'd change.

It did matter. Once we were legally bound it mattered financially. It has been a huge financial loss for me. Not only in the security and things that I did not accrue during my late 20's and 30's, like most families, but when I divorced, at 40yo, I started out at zero. I actually felt lucky with zero because many are in debt.

I can't even describe how things mattered more once I had kids. All kinds of things I thought didn't matter suddenly did. A lot. I would never wish away my children but, like mentioned already, if there was one thing I could go back and do over - I would not have gotten married. I thought getting married was the right thing to do to have kids. I missed the only really important decision - and that is picking the right man to be their father. My xah isn't mean or abusive. That is a different thing from alcoholism but a man that is an alcoholic that is sort of not there, sort of tired, sort of lazy, sort of half asleep, sort of broke, sort of desperate, sort of depressed and self consumed, sort of negligent is still a not there, tired, lazy, half asleep, broke, desperate, depressed, self consumed, negligent father. Those traits don't make for a very good husband either. Yet, I found walking way the single hardest thing I have ever ever done.

Being married to an alcoholic is a slippery slope. 10yrs later I was so lost. I gave up one small tiny value at a time, one small tiny unacceptable thing became acceptable at a time. This was only a shade worse then that and if I accepted that, why wouldn't I accept this? I had give up so much, I was accepting incredibly unacceptable things and it all slipped away like sand in your hand - one grain at a time and without even feeling it, your hand is empty. I would have never dreamed I'd be 'that woman'. I swore I'd never be in that spot and didn't understand how it happened. I do now. It happens one grain of sand at a time.

I once described being married to an alcoholic running in quick sand. You run and you run and you run and you don't get further away from the bad, or closer to the good. You sink down until you can no longer breath or think straight. You are so exhausted from trying to survive, and so panicky trying not to go crazy, that you live in only those two places. The only thing bigger is the ocean of resentment and anger.

I wish I could convince you that safe, loving, respectful, secure, confident, joyful relationships do exist. I don't have it but I believe it now (not sure I did then) and I will accept nothing less. You are beautiful and worthy of having one - but you have to go after it. You can never get that relationship if you latch on to one that isn't.

I didn't respond initially because your post left me feeling so sad and helpless. I'm not sure there is anything that can be said to really get our message across. These are our stories, not yours. Please, listen to your voice inside you that prompted you to post. That voice has your best interests at heart. It is sometimes hard and painful to make the decision that is in our own best interest, but we must because no one else will or even can.

PS: Words are like fairy dust. They do nothing but feed the hopeful fantasy and wishful thinking in our head. Watch the actions. The actions tell you who a person is. Believe them.

Thumper is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by AVRT View Post
People "in recovery" have what I like to call an impulse to punish - they want to punish the "bad" alcoholics so that they hit their bottom faster and get into recovery - which is why people are telling you to leave now. You don't necessarily need to do that, though, and it won't help either of you.
That's quite a broad brush to paint with AVRT.

I can only speak for myself, but I have no desire whatsoever to punish alcoholics. The ones I know punish themselves quite enough as it it. I was married to one for 20 years and I still care about him and his well-being. Like many on the F&F boards however, it came to a point where it was him or me. I was drowning in his disease and there was nothing I could do but save myself. My biggest regret is that I didn't do it sooner. So much of the suffering I experienced (and my children experienced) could have been prevented if only I had enough self-worth to stop trying to take care of him and start taking care of myself.

And, FWIW, I never told the OP to leave now. My best suggestion would be to slow way down and make sure that this is the person and the life she wants before making a legal commitment. That's not punishment, that's just sensible.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:52 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
That's quite a broad brush to paint with AVRT.

I can only speak for myself, but I have no desire whatsoever to punish alcoholics. The ones I know punish themselves quite enough as it it.
Possibly a bit much. I was not including the non-A's in that statement. I think you'll find that I don't lack empathy for what you guys go through.

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
I was married to one for 20 years and I still care about him and his well-being. Like many on the F&F boards however, it came to a point where it was him or me. I was drowning in his disease and there was nothing I could do but save myself. My biggest regret is that I didn't do it sooner. So much of the suffering I experienced (and my children experienced) could have been prevented if only I had enough self-worth to stop trying to take care of him and start taking care of myself.
I don't blame you in the least. You did what you had to do to protect your family.

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
And, FWIW, I never told the OP to leave now. My best suggestion would be to slow way down and make sure that this is the person and the life she wants before making a legal commitment. That's not punishment, that's just sensible.
I agree.

However, I do think a man should be given the opportunity to quit, though. People give up far more for their families than drinking - often their lives. If a man will not sacrifice for his wife, or for his family, then who is he going to sacrifice for? What kind of husband would he make? Where is his honor?
Terminally Unique is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:32 PM.