Someone please explain this to me

Old 07-06-2011, 06:37 AM
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Someone please explain this to me

Yesterday I told AH I am divorcing him. That we would let a judge decide if he can have the kids, because he wont' stop drinking. I felt, if you read my post, crystal clear and solid about what I and the kids need. Ready

I sent him an email while he was at work and he called me freaking out for an hour. I was on a conference call and he kept demanding I hang up and talk to him, that I not take the kids away from him.

I shouldn't have sent it to him while he was at work, but wasn't thinking. We had several conversations last night, none of them very productive. Last night I dreamt I found three used condoms in the garbage and when I asked him about them he laughed at me. I've had dreams like that about AH for years.

This morning I got this email:

I want to avoid confrontation. I don't know why you say I am "blaming " you. You are threatening to keep my boys from me. That's fact. We are not happy together. That's all. I don't want to feel our issues anymore. It will be fine. We need to sit down and goal set soon. Let's not get the boys involved at all please.

Talk to you later
It's like a switch has been thrown inside of me and now I'm fighting hysteria, feeling abandoned and panicking, trying to figure out what I did wrong and why HE'S LEAVING ME. WTF!?!

At least I have the intellectual capacity now to see the stark difference between how I felt yesterday and how I'm triggered today.

Cunning baffling and powerful I tell ya. That's the only possible explanation.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:49 AM
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Have you read this? Major AHA for me.....

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-triangle.html

L
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:52 AM
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O yeah, that rings a bell. I'm going through the same thing with my AW, just check out my "Shields are holding" threads. Its like nothing you say gets through. I met her at the hospital to tell her again that there is no hope of reconciliation and this will end in divorce. Her therapist asked me to do this because she thought it was best if it happened in place where they could help her deal with it.. It ended up with me hugging her, telling her I love her (which I do) but I can't live with her, I just can't do it. Her response was to cry and say "please don't say that". Even though earlier in the week when I talked to her on the phone she said she loved me enough to let me go.

I have now given up on trying to understand how anyone thinks, A's or not. And that includes me. I will simply observe it and respond to the actions, not the words.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:18 AM
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((transformyself))

Maybe the ole "Fear" monster took up residence in your mind? Especially with the dreams you have had recently. . .

I hate so much you are going thru this - it is a very painful experience, my recovery friends gave me the reassurance that although I was going to have lots of different emotions - I didn't need to allow those emotions to take me off the path of what I really wanted - PEACE, SERENITY AND SANITY in my home and life.

Feel the feeling, let it go, do the action to get the result of how you want your life to be.

Praying for strength, courage and widsom for you!

PINK HUGS,
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:36 AM
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I think the drama triangle is in Co-Dependent No More too and it also really hit home for me when I first read it. I could see the triangle in several relationships and I am not a 'needy' person either. I'm seen as quite the opposite but my independence is really a dysfunctional coping mechanism (ie codependent behavior) that prevents intimacy in order to protect the very vulnerable inner person that doesn't come out to play - ever. There is a lot of fear and no trust (in anyone not even always in myself) in that kind of independence.

Transform - I totally get what you are saying. I had same/similar experiences. I wish I had some insight for you but not so much. Will share a little.

I promised myself I would move forward with plans and move on things I thought in my head, things I knew - not the crazy stuff I was feeling. Eventually I went pretty much no contact (except about kids or necessary logistics) and just quit engaging in or pursuing the discussions. I got off the merry go round and refused to step back on. I wish I could say the crazy feelings just stopped but that merry go round goes fast! and I was dizzy for awhile. It was a physical feeling of panic like you describe. I was so afraid of making a mistake (I was paralyzed for some time because of that fear) and I was afraid of his feelings. Not him, his feelings. It scared me (massive understatement!) to do something that made him so mad/sad/whatever. That is my brand of codependency. I'm not like that with everyone but I was with him.

I separated codependency feelings from healthy thoughts. My codependency feelings are really just that - physical feelings and sensations accompanied by some fear based spinning 'tapes' I played in my head. Often these were in direct opposition of what my smart girl self knew and it made me nuts (fueled my wishful thinking fantasy). The healthy thoughts were those things that were not 'tapes'. The healthy thoughts were logical, reality based, and made sense intellectually. They were not spinning. I had the help of a counselor and SR at that time. The awareness gave me the strength and information to separate them out and move forward with the healthy thoughts and not the codependent feelings/tapes.

You are much further along in your recovery then I was when I filed for divorce (or even now!) so a lot of that was preaching to the choir. You have that awareness already. I guess I'm just sharing so you know you are not alone. I wish there was a way to banish those feelings. I think that sometimes there is no way to recover enough to not have them - we just get strength to get through them. Having survived the situation gives us more experience etc to handle life's next stage with less pain. I hope!
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:54 AM
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Hi Transform!

Oh, did I go through several large mood swings each day for a while when going through my divorce. My xH cheated on me and he initiated it, then stopped it, then wouldn't go to counseling, then I told him if he did not finish the divorce I would, then I panicked and cried for days......well, you get the picture.

I think what you are feeling is perfectly natural and normal. It helped me to acknowledge the feeling, then do what I could to let it pass by (journaling!).

HG
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:11 AM
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I am feeling exactly what you are right now. It's awful.. He has harrassed me every day for a week since he was served the papers. Yesterday was the first time I had a night with no calls or messages from him. It was lovely; until this morning. I felt sad and hurt. I just keep telling myself that I'm doing the right thing.

You know what the right thing for you is but it doesn't stop the flood of emotions. Stay strong - you can weather this storm just like you have all others in the past. Sunny skies are ahead!

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Old 07-06-2011, 09:16 AM
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Thanks everyone. Really.

I sorted it out. This is only about my fear of abandonment. It's so strong, I'm amazed. I think it's time to pick up my book about healing my abandonment again. It was powerful work. I worked on it over the winter, but haven't been paying attention to it.

My AH is a ******* brilliant passive aggressive drunk. it's like war, honestly, and most of the time I just want to be rid of it all. I've found out how to do that over the past year, through the program, detaching and making my life better. I thought I was strong enough to not get hooked back into the very sick dance and I guess honestly I haven' because I'm not communicating any of this to him, just myself and you guys.


I don't know how sincerely "codependent" I am because so much of the things LTD posed to not apply to me- all though I appreciate you posting it and trying to answer my what the hell is wrong with me question . I've read it regularly, honestly, over the years and to be honest, this
Rescue
(Forever willing to help out, the one who does it all, doing for others what they could do for themselves, worry what people think, know what others need without being asked, "people please", so forth and so on....)

Persecute (resentment)
(Feel helpless, frustrated, and "resentful" because they won't: change, accept your help, appreciate your help, understand that you're just trying to help, etc. You become HURT and ANGRY.)

Victim
(Why does this keep happening to me? I was only trying to help. Who do they think they are? Doesn't anyone appreciate me? Why do I keep doing this? ....)
makes no sense to me. While I have certianly been resentful when AH woudln't change, all the other language about just wanting to help, being forever willing to help out and doing things for others and especially not being appreciated for meddling in others business have never been a part of my life. These readings have always confused me.

yes, I am resentful when AH wouldn't stop drinking, but the more therapy I've received the more I've learned that it's really been deep ACOA abadonenment and rejection issues, which probably is the same core reasons codies behave the way they do, but for me it's manifested in controlling behavior, not because I want to be helpful or recognized, but because I'm so freaking afraid of abandonment and rejection.

Why then, you ask, did I seek out a man who has clearly, from day one, wanted nothing to do with me? Why did I chased him and get pregnant?

At that time, I wasn't aware of these internal dynamics. I couldn't stop myself from chasing someone who doesn't want me. Someone who pays more attention to other women. I was acting out my very sick abusive childhood. Yummy.

He's left me three times and had sex with other women, the last one as I was finally getting ready to leave him, so that twisted the game beautifully. Moved down the street with her, living in bliss and insisting he was "in love," with the woman of his dreams- a homeless alcoholic who worked with him. When I filed for divorce in August 2008, he wanted to come home. Wanted to rebuild our marriage. I had done so much work on myself! I was a real catch.

But reuniting solved that problem. I became a pathetic, terrified shell of my former self. it makes me sick to think of that person now. Only by leaving him again, working as hard as I could on my own recovery, have I found true happiness. Enough to think I am strong enough to finally end this mess.

The worst part is how ashamed I am that I choose such a pathetic, disengaged, manipulative drunk to have children with. If I had it all to do over, outside of me acting out my sick unresolved childhood issues, I would NOT pick this person to procreate with.

So now that I know it's abandonment, it's a little easier. The book taught me some techniques for dealing with that. Also, its PTSD from my childhood and his affairs, triggered into this highly anxious state that keep me terrified and waiting for the next horrific thing to happen.

Good news: My amazing, beautiful, rock star sister is driving here right now with her 9 year old son. I miss her so much. She is brilliant and wise and is the one person I know loves me. I trust her utterly and she will be here for a month. I'll try to attach a picture of us, but never can figure that stuff out.

Help, and sanity i hope, is on the way.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
me dora watch band.jpg (30.6 KB, 127 views)

Last edited by transformyself; 07-06-2011 at 09:31 AM. Reason: to thank LTD and post the picture. And because I'm obsessive.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:54 AM
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Sorry about that. I was on my way to the shower and did a quick search on "Karpman Drama Triangle" and posted the first link that came up. Now that I look at it, I see that you not only read it, but participated when it was posted.

There is a lot more about it available if you google it. The explanations posted on that particular thread also didn't ring true for me, but the Karpman Triangle is something my therapist worked with me on, so that is what I was relating to.

Here's how I see it. The positions of persecutor and rescuer are the positions of power. That is why they are on top of the inverted triangle. However, I cannot maintain the power roles without occasionally slipping into the victim role. For me it looked something like this:

I would "win" and argument, belittle my AH, catch him doing something clearly wrong, or whatever. (me as persecutor, him as victim)

Then he would get all remorseful, promise to stop drinking, profess his love, or whatever. I would believe him and get on board with "helping" him to be a better person. (now I'm the rescuer and he is the victim)

Pretty soon, he's sick of my self-righteousness and decides to drink, or leave, or tell me what a bitch I am, or whatever. (now he's the persecutor and I am the victim)

Then he gets to throw me some crumbs of affection which I gladly and eagerly take because I am afraid of losing him. (now he is the rescuer and I am the victim)

So, when you announced that you wanted a divorce, you were in the power position, or persecutor if you will. Divorcing him because he doesn't meet your standards for a spouse. Then, he turned it around on you, and all of a sudden he is the persecutor and you are the victim.

It's like a switch has been thrown inside of me and now I'm fighting hysteria, feeling abandoned and panicking, trying to figure out what I did wrong and why HE'S LEAVING ME. WTF!?!
There are many ways to play out the cycle, and it does fit perfectly with abandonment fears. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify why I posted the link. I'm sure if you look around the internet, you will find a description of the Karpman Triangle that you can relate to. It plays out one way or another in nearly all dysfunctional relationships.

L
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:58 AM
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Ah. yes, this explanation fits crazy ol me. Thank you.

I participated in the last time you posted? Goodness knows wth I said...
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:18 AM
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To simplify it even further, it's really just a way of explaining the power struggle dynamic. In order to "win", one person moves into either the persecutor or rescuer role, putting the other person into the victim role. But, the victim must then change up the roles in order to be on top because they are "losing". And round and round it goes as each person tries to stay on top by victimizing the other.

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Old 07-06-2011, 10:22 AM
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Well there's a fine how do you do. I thought I was just breaking free of my own abandonment crap. But noooo. I still want to maintain the power struggle.

Mainly I'm going to help soothe the little girl in me that's wreaking havoc on my adult life.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:39 AM
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Transform, I'm sorry to read all of this. Given all the advice/thoughts you have shared in my thread, I wish I could do the same for you here.
Obviously you are not happy and have worked at this for a long time. It sounds like the love is gone and you have your answer.

I admire how much you are digging deep within yourself to understand and adjust, and I hope to get to that point with myself one day. Again, sorry to hear about your struggles. "Hang in there" would sound dumb, but I can't think of alternative at present.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:47 AM
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Ha! "Hang in there," is perfect. Thank you.

The good, or perhaps horrifying, thing is that there never WAS love in our relationship Not like yours. You guys were friends first, for a good long while. AH and I have never been friends. Only enemy combatants. Horrible really in retrospect.

It's all my fault, really. I followed him around, when he made it clear he didn't want me. I loved it. It fit perfectly with my abandonment/rejection issues.
I went back to him when we broke up early on and I started dating someone else and THEN he wanted me.
I took him back after multiple affairs.
I took focused on him for 14 years: his drinking, his attraction to other women. I didn't get a life. It was too scary looking within.

Now I prefer looking within. I really do. And I know my worth, I know this will be a long hard process that will give me freedom, finally.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:00 PM
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OMG I just had the most amazing realization!

If I give up on "healing" this marriage, it means, somewhere deep inside of me to that four year old little girl, that my chances of finally getting my parents to love me has failed.

I know it sounds crazy, but this entire relationship has been based on my inner childs drive to prove I am lovable.

God I'm relieved to recognize this. Now I can rationalize with that poor frightened little girl, show her what REAL love and respect is and take care of her.

Cause no one else will
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:05 PM
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Aww Transform.

I'm so thankful that you share your thoughts/process with us at SR.

You love, cherish, and respect that little girl. You have been doing that for a while now and you are getting very good at it. That small inner self is going to be less and less frightened as you continue to trust yourself to take care of yourself.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
Well there's a fine how do you do. I thought I was just breaking free of my own abandonment crap. But noooo. I still want to maintain the power struggle.
FWIW, I wasn't insinuating that you want to maintain the power struggle. Even when I was well and truly DONE playing that game with my AH, he still continued to play. He knew all my buttons so very well that he could push them at will and I would fall back into my victim role. He tried his very best to keep me dancing with him. And it worked, once in a while. It was such familiar territory to my subconscious emotions. It worked for him for so long, of course he continued to play me.

I was suggesting that maybe playing on your abandonment fears has worked so well for your AH that he is simply doing what has worked for him in the past.

Good for you for recognizing it and not getting caught up in it.

L
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:16 PM
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Thanks LTD, but I didn't think you were. I was just realizing it myself. And oh yes, playing on my abandonment fears has paid off handsomely for that man. Anytime I was ready to leave, or ignoring him, he would wake me up from a dead sleep to show me how he was taking off his ring, or tell me he was divorcing me. That worked. I would cry, hysterically for days. God I hate him.

*******. **** that guy.

I"m SO glad I can come here and process. I feel ready to get on with my life again! Round 5,098 down, only 40 more to go.

And I"m grateful for the automatic asterik out my swear words program...
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
Yesterday I told AH I am divorcing him. That we would let a judge decide if he can have the kids, because he wont' stop drinking. I felt, if you read my post, crystal clear and solid about what I and the kids need. Ready

I sent him an email while he was at work and he called me freaking out for an hour. I was on a conference call and he kept demanding I hang up and talk to him, that I not take the kids away from him.

I shouldn't have sent it to him while he was at work, but wasn't thinking. We had several conversations last night, none of them very productive. Last night I dreamt I found three used condoms in the garbage and when I asked him about them he laughed at me. I've had dreams like that about AH for years.

This morning I got this email:



It's like a switch has been thrown inside of me and now I'm fighting hysteria, feeling abandoned and panicking, trying to figure out what I did wrong and why HE'S LEAVING ME. WTF!?!

At least I have the intellectual capacity now to see the stark difference between how I felt yesterday and how I'm triggered today.

Cunning baffling and powerful I tell ya. That's the only possible explanation.
Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
And oh yes, playing on my abandonment fears has paid off handsomely for that man. God I hate him.

*******. **** that guy.

I"m SO glad I can come here and process. I feel ready to get on with my life again! Round 5,098 down, only 40 more to go.

And I"m grateful for the automatic asterik out my swear words program...

Dear transformy,


I have read all your posts since you joined SR. Oh, maybe I missed 1 or 2...

Although I know it is painful I am happy that you decided to divorce the man. How would a flower open up to its splendor during acid rain?

I have witnessed your stress and exhaustion, and frustration.

I only know the man through you and I don't see anything changing for him.

But you transformy, you have grown up SO MUCH, and sometimes that means to be the observer, to let reality be clear to you, even when it is sad. You are doing it already and moving forward into action. Hats off to you!

I am also shocked when I realize the depth of my abandonment and how much love, attention, PROTECTION, I have lacked. No wonder I ran away-I am also having AHA moments very often.... and nightmares, too... my mom is going through the same, its all about healing.

Here are some hugs (((((((TRANSFORM))))))))))))

PS
Let me try to translate his words.............

I want to avoid confrontation.

I am all about avoidance. Especially avoidance of consequences and situations that might make me feel uncomfortable. Been doing that all my life. And alcohol, women, etc. help a great deal. You are abandonment? I am avoidance. The difference is that you admit your issue and heal it- I am still deep in denial about mine.


You are threatening to keep my boys from me.

Maybe if I call you a BAD HEARTLESS MOTHER I can guilt-trip you enough for you not to see my faults, absence, addiction, defects, mistakes, etc.


That's fact.

Facts are facts only when its convenient for me.


We are not happy together.

I am not happy.


That's all.

If there are issues its due to the combination of the two of us; maybe it will work with someone else without the need for me to do any self introspection, as I alone bear no responsibility.


I don't want to feel our issues anymore.

Please leave me alone so I get another enabler.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:21 PM
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Wow TC, you're an expert Drunk Translator! Amazing. You and Naive can be our Master Translators. Figures. You write beautifully in English, though not your Native tongue.

Thanks Girl. I"m sure glad to see you.
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