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Old 07-03-2011, 08:45 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Chicory, I am a Mom, too. Mine are much younger than yours, but I know I would have the same feelings if I had to watch them self destruct right in front of me. I am praying that never happens.

I understand tough love and setting boundaries and all that. But I am wondering if an intervention would be a better tactic here. Involving some old-timers from AA maybe, or someone professionally trained in interventions...

We don't talk much about interventions here, and I know they can be epic fails or worse...but there are times when they have been very successful, too. I read a book a few months back by Debra Jay, think the title was "No More Letting Go" and the second half of the book was entirely dedicated to interventions.

JMHO...well, not even really an opinion...just thinking out loud.

Stay strong. Prayers today...
~T
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:16 AM
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I can't recall...are you attending al-anon meetings? They can really help you, hon. It's never a bad thing to get more information, and al-anon can arm you with information and help you look at things from other perspectives.

I don't think anyone blames you for what you are doing. Being a mom is the hardest job in the world, I don't care what anyone says. Please, take care of yourself.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
Chicory, I am a Mom, too. Mine are much younger than yours, but I know I would have the same feelings if I had to watch them self destruct right in front of me. I am praying that never happens.

I understand tough love and setting boundaries and all that. But I am wondering if an intervention would be a better tactic here. Involving some old-timers from AA maybe, or someone professionally trained in interventions...

We don't talk much about interventions here, and I know they can be epic fails or worse...but there are times when they have been very successful, too. I read a book a few months back by Debra Jay, think the title was "No More Letting Go" and the second half of the book was entirely dedicated to interventions.

JMHO...well, not even really an opinion...just thinking out loud.

Stay strong. Prayers today...
~T
T,

There is no money for an intervention, unfortunately. I am single and work for not a big salary. his dad can't do it either.
If you mean family getting together, perhaps that could happen, but i am not sure how it would help someone who is so defensive. He will argue til the cows come home that he is right. he has an argument for everything, and you cant get a word in edgewise. I have never known any one like that.
not to say that wont help, tho i am afraid that it would just give him stalling time. at my emotional expense.
I will look into that tho.

thanks T- i appreciate the support.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:40 AM
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BTW, my daughter is now 30...she pushed my buttons, ran up my credit cards ( igave her a card to use at school for emergencies,...LMF(little miss Fandy) HID THE 6K BILL FROM ME...until it was ready to go to a judgement and i found out while at work)...I paid it to protect my credit...at that point, she was 24 years old, living with her boyfriend i think....I changed the locks and told her she was "off my payroll"..and not welcome until she showed me some respect....she had not called me until her father died and then she asked me for $1200. planefare from Dallas to NJ...I told her she should ask her father's family...I did see her recently at my mother's funeral, she looks like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders...but she is managing, she inheirited 2 houses, one on a very nice beach...she is paying the taxes, working and grumbled that she had a gray hair....She is not partying and wearing expensive clothes. She seems to be an adult. (for now)....I am cauteously extending the olive branch...but all of my "Estate" is in the very capable hands of my brother in case something should happen to me, because I do not trust her...(she also previously went through another inheiritance of $40K in a year, after I paid the judgement...drugs, booze and living it up).

I can forgive financial mistakes, we all make them...but doing it over and over again is just something I do not have the tolerance for...she is an ADULT...not a smal child to be protected...it is her choice, i do not participate..she can tell all of her "excuses" to the mirror.

What would happen if your 40 year old son actually had to deal with real life???? like the rest of us???? You are not always going to be there to care for him...suppose YOU need care??? would he do the same for you???
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
I can't recall...are you attending al-anon meetings? They can really help you, hon. It's never a bad thing to get more information, and al-anon can arm you with information and help you look at things from other perspectives.

I don't think anyone blames you for what you are doing. Being a mom is the hardest job in the world, I don't care what anyone says. Please, take care of yourself.
Suki,
I couldn't find a meeting that is close enough. one far away, and I dont like to drive at night. cant believe that in this town, full of druggies and drinkers, that there is no meeting. used to be. but it dissolved.
guess i will look again. maybe there is a new one.
have wondered if online meetings would be good.
i tried to sign into one a couple weeks ago, that i had joined a long time ago, and no luck. I would love to find a meeting. i know that it would be a life saver.

thanks suki. thanks for understanding, and for the help.

love
chicory
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:51 AM
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I think online meetings would be better than nothing. Also, reading around on the al-anon site would probably give you a lot of good information. You can probably re-register online without any problem. I just think it would be a really good source of support for you in addition to SR.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Fandy View Post
BTW, my daughter is now 30...she pushed my buttons, ran up my credit cards ( igave her a card to use at school for emergencies,...LMF(little miss Fandy) HID THE 6K BILL FROM ME...until it was ready to go to a judgement and i found out while at work)...I paid it to protect my credit...at that point, she was 24 years old, living with her boyfriend i think....I changed the locks and told her she was "off my payroll"..and not welcome until she showed me some respect....she had not called me until her father died and then she asked me for $1200. planefare from Dallas to NJ...I told her she should ask her father's family...I did see her recently at my mother's funeral, she looks like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders...but she is managing, she inheirited 2 houses, one on a very nice beach...she is paying the taxes, working and grumbled that she had a gray hair....She is not partying and wearing expensive clothes. She seems to be an adult. (for now)....I am cauteously extending the olive branch...but all of my "Estate" is in the very capable hands of my brother in case something should happen to me, because I do not trust her...(she also previously went through another inheiritance of $40K in a year, after I paid the judgement...drugs, booze and living it up).

I can forgive financial mistakes, we all make them...but doing it over and over again is just something I do not have the tolerance for...she is an ADULT...not a smal child to be protected...it is her choice, i do not participate..she can tell all of her "excuses" to the mirror.

What would happen if your 40 year old son actually had to deal with real life???? like the rest of us???? You are not always going to be there to care for him...suppose YOU need care??? would he do the same for you???
Fandy,

boy, I only wish he had inherited a place to live! main worry is whether he eats or sleeps in a safe place. guess if he had money i would be worrying whether he was drinking his liver into mush.
guess worrying isnt going to change anything.

if i needed care, he would help if he could, but he would not go get a job to help me, he is proving that now. i dont know what will happen if he has to hit the streets. he would probably look for cigarette butts and starve for a while.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:06 AM
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Please don't forget about the Salvation Army. They have a free rehabilitation service and can provide him a bed and food in exchange for working. Some work in their store, other sort, repair or clean donations getting them ready for sale. Sure, he'd have rules to follow, but it's better than living on the street.

http://www.satruck.org/search-arc

Click on that link, enter your zip code or City/State and it will generate a list of SA Rehabilitation Centers closest to your area.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:25 AM
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Hey there Chicory, and have a big (((( hugs )))) cuz you have earned it.

A long time ago I was the wasted alkie. I lived from couch to couch until I ran out of people I could con into letting me in. As long as I had a couch and somebody else to feed me why bother with anything else? Eventually I ended up living in a trash dumpster, thinking I was better than the wino's because I was _not_ living in the gutter. I don't know for sure but I think I went into DT's in that dumpster. That's when I finally gave up my ego and asked God for help.

Whadya know, some guy came to toss trash in the dumpster and found me. I was in a dumpster behind a church, and they had a small shelter in the basement and AA meetings every day. Some people call that a "bottom", the definition of which is "pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization". A simpler term is "Oh my *** I am going to die if I don't stop this".

I haven't had a drink since then, and have stuck to the AA program of recoverly like glue. Had I found one more couch to sleep on I would have died of DT's.

Many years later my lovely wife became very ill and got addicted to pain pills. I got to see addiction from the other side. I enabled her for awhile, then got into al-anon and got myself out of that mess.

Today I believe that loving someone is not a crime. It's a gift. Reaching out to someone who is drowning in quicksand is not a crime, it's an act of heroism.

Jumping into the quicksand with them..... the way I did with my ex-wife.... now that is just plain foolishness.

The correct way to save somebody who is too far to reach is to throw them a life preserver, attached to a rope, and tie the other end to a tree. Once they grab on to the life preserver you can reel them in, or better yet, get some big, strong mountain man to reel them in.

Addiction is a type of quicksand. AA, or NA, or a hospital program, or a church-run program, or the Salvation Army or any one of many available programs are the "life preservers" that society has created for us to use. Sponsors and therapists and priests are the strong mountain men that reel in the drowning souls.

There is an abundance of help out there for alkies and addicts. But the help is _out there_. Not inside your home. Call up the closest Salvation Army, get their phone number. Call up the closest Emergency Room, get their number. Call up the local police and have them come help you.

As far as on-line meetings, we have a "Chat room" system right here on SR. PM a few people you are comfortable with and make your own on-line meeting any time you want.

As far as people sending you offensive PM's, contact any Moderator and we'll put a stop to that right quick.

Mike
Moderator, SR
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:28 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I think maybe it's best if HE started to worry about having a safe place to live and what to eat, to supply these basic functions for himself...maybe that is the key for him...everyone else seems to be doing everything for him and he has stuck to mama's nest....He is 40 years old...if he doesn't learn to fend for himself????? If you suddenly were abducted by aliens and taken to the mothership....and he had no one to fall back on, he would HAVE to sink or swim.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:50 AM
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(((Chicory)))- big ((((hugs))). I realize you also worry that he doesn't have the mental capacity to help himself, but sometimes that is just the "addict mind"...we can be pretty pitiful, put off doing stuff we should, etc. as long as we don't have to.

You know my story. Heck, I slept in empty apts (illegal), on the back porch if I couldn't get in, lived, literally, on the streets during my use. Was out walking the streets whether it was snowing or 110 degrees.

Yes, I did have a good upbringing, had a great career, etc., but addiction still turned me into someone I didn't even realize.

I understand the fear of making him go, the not knowing what's going to happen, the fear that he will die. Thing is, he may meet that same fate, living in your own home. Look at your friend and her son. Personally, I think finding her was a sign for you.

I spent 30 years on the codie side, a few years on the addiction side, and the codie is so much harder (for me).

You asked about "do you just jump?" I don't know the exact words, but one of my favorite sayings is something like "faith is know that when you jump, you will either fly or be carried on the wings of angels". I probably totally screwed that up, but that's what I remember of it, or how I interpret.

The jumping part is scary..no doubt. You know me and my story. I had to make a lot of blind jumps to get to where I am today.

As far as blame, it took me YEARS to stop blaming my 3 XABF's and realize that I had a part in it. To me, it's not so much blame, but acceptance that I was sick, too. You already know this, so that's a good step.

When I think of all of us who are struggling with a loved A, I think of (((Ann))) - she hasn't seen, nor heard from her son in over 6 years, I think. Yet the woman exudes peace and serenity. That is my prayer for you and all the others who are struggling (including myself).

Love, hugs, and prayers,

Amy
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:06 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Gosh, some of you dear people have been through so much. my heart hurts to hear it. but, you learned how to live.

I believe my son would choose to live in his car, till cops take him or it away, than to go to a rehab. he did stay at the homeless shelter for a month, when my sis and i took him. it was a pretty awful place, but it was a bed and two meals a day. he was beginning to sound like he knew that his choices had caused his situation. but he went right back to denial, as soon as someone rescued him.
i believe my son feels powerless. this runs in the family, obviously.

thanks kids. you are helping. what would we do without each other?
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:09 AM
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We're all in this thing together, Chicory!

Those of us addicts in recovery want you to know we survived, and finally got help!

I also know that deep aching pain of a mother's heart.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:10 AM
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Well, the point is, whatever he decides would be his choice. Taking your home off the table will require him to make choices, and whether he chooses to live in his car or go to available rehabs or whatever, he will be making his own choices.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:11 PM
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LOL,

A guy I see at a lot of my meetings, who has one of the strongest messages I've ever heard, tells about how his parents kicked him out of the house, and he started living in his car.

Not only that, he sublet the back seat and charged rent to another dude in the same situation.

I know people with over ten years of sobriety who lived in cardboard boxes ffor awhile. Don't ever underestimate the ingenuity of the survival instinct.

OK, so Chicory. He's living in his car until the cops tow it away (or him). He then has to make other arrangements. Or the cops or somebody else will make those arrangements for him.

I agree with Amy, I think you may be assuming mental illness when it is really mostly the alcohol. I think he's a lot more capable than you fear. It's to his benefit to appear helpless to you.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Suki,
I couldn't find a meeting that is close enough. one far away, and I dont like to drive at night. cant believe that in this town, full of druggies and drinkers, that there is no meeting. used to be. but it dissolved.
guess i will look again. maybe there is a new one.
have wondered if online meetings would be good.
i tried to sign into one a couple weeks ago, that i had joined a long time ago, and no luck. I would love to find a meeting. i know that it would be a life saver.

thanks suki. thanks for understanding, and for the help.

love
chicory
B (my dry AH) says they help him. His was either SMART or rationalrecovery, not alanon, but the format, ease and availability are helpful to him.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:30 PM
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I waffle back and forth, in my thinking on his mental capabilities. He is an air head, you could say, tho he can program a computer and helps people all the time.

He worked very hard in construction for five months, but some of the guys said he would not listen and did his own thing. i believe that, for he hates to admit that he does not know something. poor guy had no influence from his dad, except learning how to feel entitled and to be an a$$.

he was always biting nails , irritable, hates red tape, filling out apps. etc. makes poor judgement calls, like staying up all night, before he has to go to work. in order to play video games with friends . half life, other role games.

he cannot seem to manage the simplest things. he cannot even take time to wring out a cloth that he wipes down the counter with- he leaves it soaking wet. always did this!
if he makes a mess on floor, he gets a tiny piece of towel, and wipes it poorly, leaving a mess still. doing dishes? he leaves them dirty,usually. but he goes all the way through the motions.

he seems to have other things on his mind all the time. he cannot seem to make time for the normal things that most of do each day. he has always been this way. irritable, impatient, but he used to be a lot sweeter. He cant wait to get back to his world, the computer. he has been that way for as long as I can remember. as a matter of fact, his desire to have access to internet motivated many of his choices in life. the friends that had internet were the ones he wanted to be with.

He could go to school. but he says it is impossible. he is pissed at the economy and the greed and injustice. he would love to be someone and have something, but says that is impossible these days. he is so negative about any choices. he has had many jobs. in retail, construction, food, but he just does not want to go to bed, and get up and go to work, so his absenteeism loses him the jobs. he gets hired easily, for he is so well spoken and can act, but keeping it is the challenge.

he denies that he is avoiding work, but i dont believe that. he is never gone when i come home from work . is usually sleeping, in order to stay up all night.

i am gonna go sign up for al-anon online. i cant keep going on and on about him. it is not fair, it does not really matter, he is who he is. and intellectualizing does nothing to help. he is too complicated.

maybe he is just SUPER SELFISH, and also alcoholic.
hugs to all, and many many thanks, for sharing your stories of hope.

love
chicory
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:43 PM
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He doesn't HAVE TO pick up after himself or go to sleep at night...he suffers no consequences for his actions....

it sounds so ludacris that you said he is "Pissed at the Economy"????? that is his reasoning for not functioning like the rest of us????...OMG!!! he sleeps all day so he can play games on the Internet all night??? and you let him live with you rent free????

Cut off the internet service and he will move out, perhaps find a job and buy his own food, cigarettes and pay some bills. You have the patience of a SAINT!!! He would be long gone from my nest....with the imprint of my foot on his hindquarters...

good luck Chicory...please stop worrying about the 40 year old "child" and take care of yourself. I think he may be playing you....
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:14 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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I finally got enrolled in stepchat.com. an hour and a half. almost 30 ppl at one time. i did not get time to share, but the first three who did all had a/ad sons. the subject was "expectations".

it was just what i needed tonight.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:19 PM
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wooo hoooo Chicory, good for you

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