Alcoholics Anonymous Killed My Marriage

Old 06-30-2011, 10:18 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Obviously she didn't spend enough time in Al-Anon if she is blaming AA for killing her marriage.
Seriously.
Hey, maybe I can sue Jack Daniels for ruining my marriage?
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:18 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I don't think it was AA that killed her marriage.

It was "responsibility" that killed their marriage.

when I was single, no kids, I felt free to roam the earth as I please without any fear for my life.

Once the kids came, I was "grounded" to live a "normal" life. School, work, clean, cook. Next day, same again. I had fear that I never experienced in my life. Fear that if anything happened to me, who would take care of my kids.

Then, ten years passed and I realized I was on the same treadmill day in day out. There's no more freedom after kids. It's a sobering reality. You have to sacrifice all you want to do, for them.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:31 PM
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I am glad that this article has sparked so much lively debate. I posted it here as a link without comment as I wanted to hear what members of the Forum think about it. Do please keep sharing your thoughts.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:19 PM
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I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and say that most of the responses I’ve read seem to validate opinions out there that AA/12-step groups in general are some kind of cult. Not everyone agrees with 12-step principles and despite what many of you may believe, AA is definitely not the only way to achieve sobriety and/or recovery.

I find it sad and counter-productive that most of you who follow the 12-steps lash out at those who disagree with its principals even if they appreciate the outcome. Statements like some of those I’ve seen in this thread don’t seem to be coming from “spiritually enlightened people” and seem to validate her assertion that AA/Al-Anon members do have an “us vs. them” mentality.

“Perhaps, in sobriety, he discovered what a self-centered b*tch you were.”
“Some people just don't want to recover.”
“Obviously she didn't spend enough time in Al-Anon if she is blaming AA for killing her marriage.”

Can I sympathize with a woman who instead of having to deal with her husband’s addiction to a mind altering substance she now has a husband so immersed in AA culture that he bears no semblance to the man she once knew? Absolutely! That may mean ”recovered” to many of you, but to some it seems more like a trade-off: booze swapped for endless meetings, speaking in slogans and the inability to function in life outside of AA circles.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockedGF View Post
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and say that most of the responses I’ve read seem to validate opinions out there that AA/12-step groups in general are some kind of cult. Not everyone agrees with 12-step principles and despite what many of you may believe, AA is definitely not the only way to achieve sobriety and/or recovery.

I find it sad and counter-productive that most of you who follow the 12-steps lash out at those who disagree with its principals even if they appreciate the outcome. Statements like some of those I’ve seen in this thread don’t seem to be coming from “spiritually enlightened people” and seem to validate her assertion that AA/Al-Anon members do have an “us vs. them” mentality.

“Perhaps, in sobriety, he discovered what a self-centered b*tch you were.”
“Some people just don't want to recover.”
“Obviously she didn't spend enough time in Al-Anon if she is blaming AA for killing her marriage.”

Can I sympathize with a woman who instead of having to deal with her husband’s addiction to a mind altering substance she now has a husband so immersed in AA culture that he bears no semblance to the man she once knew? Absolutely! That may mean ”recovered” to many of you, but to some it seems more like a trade-off: booze swapped for endless meetings, speaking in slogans and the inability to function in life outside of AA circles.
Wow - you just did to us what you accused us of doing to the author.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ANEWAUGUST View Post
AA saved my life, and my marriage...

Just my experience.
OMG, THANK YOU! My husband is 3 days sober and I am getting so discouraged by the instant conclusion people are coming to when we have reached out. We are getting the very clear message that the marriage is doomed before they even ask about us, how we got here, what tools we have and how we have been approaching this.

At this point, I think we are going to look for a professional addiction therapist or two, a combination of individual and family. We have a large family support group, as both of our families are close to each other, and both of our families love both of us.

I'm concerned because B seems to be in "circle the wagons" mode to protect his family instead of focusing on himself. Three days in, though, maybe the distraction is welcomed? He's not saying he will do it by himself, but I fear him closing a door, especially one so widely available and easy to access. However, I am alarmed to feel I have to defend our family, and we are both feeling a bit attacked.

There has been no open hostility, don't get me wrong. No one is screaming at me to go away and let him hang with his own kind, but that is certainly the feeling we are both getting.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:07 PM
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Oh, I knew it wouldn't be a "worthwhile" read, but I was interested to hear about this person's reasoning that brought her to that conclusion. Heck, I read the Orange Papers, too. I like to know what the "haters" have to say. Sometimes SOME of the criticisms have SOME legitimacy. It is also helpful to know what is being said because you know there are potential newcomers to 12-Step programs that base their uninformed opinions on this sort of thing.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:18 PM
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Good post ShockedGF. I've got to say I see exactly where the writer of the article is coming from and am very upset by many of the comments on this thread. The fact is AA (and al-anon) came very, very close to ruining my marriage, making me a widow or, in all likelihood, both. AA, not alcoholism.

My husband's drink problem was enormous, he made himself seriously ill but still had huge problems stopping drinking. When he decided to throw himself into AA I was delighted, I'd already been attending al-anon for a year and was pleased that he was going to get some help. Yet with each passing week he got worse and worse, what self-esteem he had plummeted. He threw himself further into the steps, went to meetings all over the city (a huge selection of them), was constantly reading his Big Book, got a sponsor, other AA friends and a counsellor who was from the fellowship. But he was getting worse and worse. Drunk or sober, all that was left of him was a giant ball of torment and pain.

All this time I was continuing on detaching, focussing on me. Tbh, I was even forcing myself to try to come to terms with the fact that he would probably die soon, as his doctor was making very, very clear. Then two things happened. The first was that I stopped going to al-anon. Al-anon had never, ever felt right to me, my instincts screamed against it when I first started. It wasn't the people, they were all lovely, friendly people. But the programme was so counter-intuitive. I had to work really hard to work it. Yet nothing got better, in fact the person I loved was basically screaming in pain and I wasn't supposed to reach out and help him through it. Eventually I could take to more. When he hurt I held him, I told him how much I loved him, how much others loved him, how we all knew how much better he could be. At first he didn't believe it, the detachment I'd practised had served to increase his fear and self-loathing, but little by little it penetrated him. There is nothing in my life that I regret more than following the al-anon programme for so very, very long. I look back in retrospect and see how very much I hurt the person I love the most in the world at a time when he was so vulnerable.

The second thing that happened was that he took up a yoga course, one night a week. It meant he couldn't go to AA on Mondays any more. Initially he'd hoped to make early morning or lunch time meetings instead but he'd gone back to work and was too busy. Monday nights were always fantastic. A mellow, relaxed and happy husband always came home to me. Obviously the yoga played an huge part in that. But over time it became clear that not being in AA that day had a role in it. His work became busier and he missed more meetings. He still drank way too much (though less than he did while in AA) but his misery was less pronounced.

I started researching addiction heavily. Not the AA dogma, but the science, the neuro-chemistry, how substance abuse causes addiction, what it does to the body and brain on a molecular level. The damage done to the GABA(b) receptors, how GABA interacts with the body, muscularly, neurologically, emotionally. The damage to thiamine production, the dangers and signs of wernicke's encephalopathy. How the brain can fully repair itself if the critical point of severe brain damage has not been reached. And then what factors could support the brain in this repair work. I subtly tested him to work out the extent of his brain impairment and was relieved to find no signs of permanent neurological damage. I also researched the best and most proven psychology. Anything with significant success rates in addiction treatment stresses the incredible necessity of empowerment and the detrimental effect of powerlessness. Other common factors in successful treatments were supportive real world peer groups, spouse, family and friends, people who will help you back into your life, not keep making you feel different. I'm also sad to say I researched the success rates of AA and found that it's not at all effective for most people. Not very surprising when it runs counter to 21st century bio-chemistry and psychology.

Eventually one night when he was sober I sat him down and asked him if he wanted to continue with AA. I asked him to be completely honest with me and not give me the answer he thought I wanted. He admitted that he hated it, that he felt worse and worse after each meeting. That the thought of spending the rest of his life in those meetings for the sake of sobriety made him choose drunkeness. That he felt helpless there, that the only choice was AA, jail, institutions or death, but he felt that if that was so, he'd take any of the latter three. He felt so unhappy, so abnormal, so unable to achieve that which he wanted more that anything, to be normal, to fit in with everyone else. It was feeling like something was wrong with him which was a huge motivator for drinking in the first place, being told that his old fears were correct made him not want to live.

So he stopped going to AA and we started applying my research to his recovery. Diet, vitamins, exercise, endorphin release, empowerment, reassurance, love and support. At the time I hoped that things would slowly get better, bit by bit, even if it was 2 steps forward 1 step back, and hopeful if it did we would eventually be able to pick up what was left of our marriage and put it back together, maybe with time and counselling. It didn't happen like that.

Sure at first things slowly improved, it was positive but hard work, but then, almost whoosh-click, it was better. He didn't want to drink any more and that was it. Practically everything fell back into place almost immediately after that. It was occasionally rocky, we argued sometimes, I was so used to him being a monumental screw up that I had to stop myself from brushing aside whatever he said when we disagreed. I had to learn to listen to him properly as now he talks sense (well most of the time, he'd still a man ). And it was long time before I let myself first him trust him and then the seeming renewed solidity of our marriage. But it's there. I let my guard down and everything held. I let myself get used to it, and it still held. I take it for granted half the time now and it's still holding. And the other half of the time it's still so marvellous that I can't help but be in awe of the complete 180º turn our lives have taken.

We don't work at our marriage any more because it's not work. It comes naturally, not 100% of the time because nobody's does. Occasionally it takes an effort but a good effort like when you've held a yoga pose for longer than ever before and it stretches you drastically, but then you get through it and feel beyond excellent. We support each other and we get that support returned a thousandfold. I don't worry if he works late or gets delayed on his journey home because he always comes home sober. He always rushes straight to greet me with a kiss, like we did before his drinking took away our intimacy (and before he couldn't risk me tasting his vodka breath by kissing me). We cuddle on the couch, we watch tv together, we laugh and tease each other, we hold on tight in bed, we have a fabulous sex life. Even his career is back on track properly, though he is considering taking a sideways move to a 39 hour a week job so that he can be home more as we are giving some serious thought to starting a family in the near future. Because I don't have to worry any more about how his drinking or even recovery could affect our future children. It won't because it's not a factor in our lives.

I debated many, many times as to whether I'd post this here. I typed out variations of this post 6 times today. In fact most posts I make here result in this internal debate now. I don't want to gloat, I don't want to undermine anybody else's efforts, I certainly don't want to knock anyone else's successes in a programme that made my marriage so unhappy. But I see so much misery on these pages, so many threads asking if happy endings are possible - which always get answered in a way that qualifies what a happy ending is - when we all know what the OP was asking and almost no answers of the type the OP was hoping to read. Then today, I was baffled to see so much derision of this poor woman's feelings, because lets be honest, there are plenty of threads with people who feel just like her here too. Her experience and feelings are far from uncommon, yet because she tells her story, her experience, her feelings, she gets insulted? So I decided to tell my story, to back up her gut reaction because it was mine. And to let people know that there are alternatives and people should not only keep on trying to improve their lives, but accept that sometimes something isn't working for them and try something else. The former president of most people on this board, Franklin Roosevelt put it so nicely I adopted it for a motto last year, "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." Because if you do you may not get a happy ending, but you just might get a fabulous new beginning.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:23 PM
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I didn't read the article at all, but I figured it was another one of those people who had to find something to blame without looking deep within themselves.

I know that the demise of my relationship was not solely resting inside a bottle. I had a part in that. I'm dealing with that part. I'm not beating myself up about it or making it all my fault, for sure, but I am facing the parts of me that contributed to the unhealthy cycle in which we lived.

The growing process has some pains sometimes, but it's worth it so far. Part of the author's growth process could have been to brainstorm some thoughts and feelings, and she might as well sell copy while she's at it, right?

Whatever she said, that's up to her. I'm sure there's more for all of us to learn as we grow.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:53 PM
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Good evening folks,

It is true that there is more than one way to find recovery just as it's true there is more than one way to destroy a marriage. Early recovery is extremely hard for the addict as well as the addicts family.

If you find yourself getting angry, perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard and take a walk for a bit.

Thanks,
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:07 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Enough already.

This forum is for positive discussions about our personal experience. This is not the place to attack each other ( also known as "flaming" ) or to ridicule people's experience.

Until you cool off and behave this thread is closed.

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