I need to confront my friend, and I'm TERRIFIED.

Old 06-22-2011, 06:14 PM
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I need to confront my friend, and I'm TERRIFIED.

I just registered here. On Friday, I'm going to confront my friend M. We have been friends half our lives.

Background info (this will be long; sorry). A few years ago, I started realizing that M had a drinking problem. I was too afraid to say anything to her about it, and I felt guilty because I often drank with her. It stopped being fun when she started passing out in my apartment, and I had to hold her up while she vomited in her sleep. And then I found out she was drinking at work, blacking out a lot at home, and I knew already she had been drinking and driving a lot. She also would show up for events completely drunk, and she acted like she thought nobody could tell. And she was constantly cancelling plans with me, because she was "too drunk to drive" (her words).

Eventually, she said she had realized she was an alcoholic, and that she was going to stop drinking. She said she joined the online group called LifeRing. For two years, she told me she wasn't drinking at all.

Well, last year, she told me she had lied. She was still drinking; she said she had actually only stopped for about 2 months, not 2 years. She said she had learned to moderate her drinking, that she never drove drunk anymore, she never went to work drunk anymore, etc. We had a big argument, because I felt very betrayed that she had been lying to me, and also because I was doubtful that she was someone who could drink moderately.

But she insisted she was not going to stop drinking, and said I needed to stop trying to "control" her. She said she wanted to earn my trust back, and to prove to me that she was now a moderate drinker. I agreed to this, and she agreed she would never show up drunk to my apartment, and she would not drive drunk. Also, she wanted to be able to drink with me again; I felt uncomfortable with this at first, but I eventually agreed, and she really DID seem to be drinking moderately when we drank together (which was only occasionally, not every time we hung out).

However, I started seeing warning signs a couple of months ago. She would text me and say she was drinking, we would text back and forth, and then she would abruptly stop responding for the night. Also, I noticed that almost every night, she would mention drinking in her texts (I almost wonder if she's subconsciously reaching out for help, but I doubt it). And, when we were hanging out together, she wanted to drink with me EVERY time, instead of occasionally. Once, while watching tv and drinking wine, she seemed to pass out, but she later claimed that she was just tired and fell asleep.

I tried to ignore the warning signs; I thought I was just being overly anxious. But then I found out from several people that M HAS been driving drunk, because she showed up at their house twice while completely intoxicated. They said she was sweating, could barely talk, and was almost falling over.
They said they watched her drink two bottles of wine, plus a few beers, and she made an inappropriate sexual advance toward someone (someone who is married; the spouse had to leave the room because she wanted to punch M in response).

I have no reason to doubt the friends who told me this about M. All their stories matched, and what they described was consistent with M's behavior a few years ago, when she was very obviously drinking heavily.

I know I need to say something to M. In fact, when she told me she was still drinking, but that it was now moderate, she ASKED me to tell her if I ever thought it seemed like she had a problem again. But she's always been the type of person to hide her vulnerabilities and problems, and she gets very defensive very easily. I suspect she is just going to accuse me of trying to "control" her, like she accused me before, and she is going to insist that she is drinking moderately. I don't know if she will flat-out deny what our mutual friends said, or if she will try to minimize those incidents as isolated mistakes.

I know I can't make her stop drinking. But I feel so lost; I don't know what kind of boundaries I should set; she has already violated the boundary I set about not wanting her to drive drunk. I can't stand people yelling and being angry with me (literally, I become unstable; I have my own problems and am in therapy). I KNOW she is going to be angry with me. Maybe she will even hate me. Despite this, I know I have to say something about her inappropriate drinking. But, dear God, how I dread it... I literally feel nauseated just thinking about it.

I think the best that I can hope for is that she will hate me and storm out of my apartment, but maybe, in time, she will think seriously about my concerns.

I hate this so much... She has always stood by me through my various emotional problems, so I don't want to cut off contact with her. But, I always knew I wasn't coping well; I always knew I had emotional problems (I used to self-harm). The thing with M is, she doesn't think she has a problem.

If anyone has any advice, words of wisdom, or even just hugs, it would mean the world to me. Also, after I talk to her, would it be okay for me to come here to vent and get support? I feel so alone, helpless, and useless.

I'm sorry this was so long. Thank you for reading it. I wish I wasn't crying right now:-(
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:21 PM
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Hi Cerulan

I am an alcoholic in the early stages of recovery.
First, I would like to say that you seem like an awesome friend and are very concerned for your friend M.
Second, you CANNOT stop M from drinking. I know that you have mentioned this in your post but it is the honest truth and a MAJOR stumbling block for many friends and family members of alcoholics.
What about mentioning about going to an AA meeting with her to give her support?
We are here for you. Best wishes xx
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:24 PM
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Hey Cerulean, of course you can come here to vent and get support anytime you need!

May I ask what you think confronting her will accomplish?
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:28 PM
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This is obviously effecting you and your friendship. I suggest you learn as much about alcoholism as possible and co-dependency. You may want to consider Al-anon for yourself to learn how to set good boundaries Wanting her to not drive drunk is not a boundary...it's a condition, a demand. A boundary in that case would be "I will never drive with you if you've had even one drink." There's a really good thread here on boundaries that will help you understand the difference.

I feel for you and your friend. But please know, she is an adult who will make her own choices. And you can't do a darn thing about it. You've found a wonderful place here full of smart, supportive people who've ALL been in your shoes.
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:30 PM
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You are definately in the right place for support and venting It is hard to watch someone we care about self destruct but you know now you need to have clear boundaries.

Boundaries, though, are about protecting yourself, not the drinker. You won't stop her actions. But you can set a boundary like you won't have her over if she is drinking, or you will not drink with her.

Sounds like you have a very close friendship. If one of my best friends started to have a problem with alcohol all I could do would be to encourage them to go to AA or see someone for help. Beyond that, it is about protecting yourself and your feelings.

Al-anon would probably help you a lot as well. It isn't just for family or spouses, anyone with an alcoholic in their life can attend.
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:41 PM
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I agree with babyblue, boundaries are to protect you, not her. For example a boundary that you set may be that you won't talk or text with her while she's drunk. If you think she's drunk you stop the conversation. It has nothing to do with controlling her as you can't control her.

I feel for you and believe you are a very good friend. Please come here often as we are here to help and do understand what you are going through.

Your friend,
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:48 PM
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Thank you so much for your replies...

Tuesday24, I actually offered to go to AA meetings with M in the past. But she's very anti-AA. She seemed to like that LifeRing group online, because it was secular and without the 12 Steps, but she obviously didn't stick with it.

Freedom1990, I'm not really sure what I hope to accomplish by confronting her. And maybe "confront" isn't really the right word. It just doesn't feel right to act like I don't think anything is wrong. I suppose my hope is that she will think about what I say, after her anger wears off.

LaPinturaBella, I understand what you are saying about the difference between boundaries and demands; I will look for the thread here that you mentioned, thank you! Is it generally considered bad to make demands in this kind of situation? She's never had a DUI or been in an accident, but I'm genuinely worried she will hurt herself or somebody else if she keeps driving drunk.

Babyblue, I'm kind of scared of Al-Anon, because I once attended a meeting for Adult Children of Alcoholics, and I felt really uneasy there (possibly because I have social phobia; I don't know). I had attended an ACOA meeting because my parents were/are alcoholics (my dad is no longer living). For the most part, though, my parents were "dry" drunks, and not actively drinking, although they stopped going to meetings, were very dysfunctional, and abused their pain medications. It's been several years since I went to the ACOA meeting, though, so maybe I should be more open-minded now and try an Al-Anon meeting. I will definitely consider it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:01 PM
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She may very well injure/kill herself or others while driving drunk, but I can assure you she will continue to do so. She may very well lie in the future and tell you she isn't driving drunk.

I understand the whole social phobia thing, but what I found was the more meetings I attended and worked on self, the more that social phobia eased up!

I really do hope you give Alanon a try. I know you said you were in therapy and that's good too. I've done therapy off and on most of my adult life since finding recovery.

I know you are concerned about your friend, but believe me (and right now I speak as a recovering alcoholic instead of a codependent), your words will fall on deaf ears.

We alcoholics protect our disease at all costs.

I'm so glad you found us, and please keep posting, okay? <---hug I forgot earlier
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990 View Post
I know you are concerned about your friend, but believe me (and right now I speak as a recovering alcoholic instead of a codependent), your words will fall on deaf ears.

We alcoholics protect our disease at all costs.
This is really hard for me to hear... I know you are speaking from experience, and I believe you. I guess I was hoping that my friend would EVENTUALLY think about what I said, that it would eventually sink in. But I guess that isn't very realistic:-(

And I feel guilty for multiple reasons, but one reason is, I used to self-harm, and I know it really upset the people who love me. And now I guess I'm finding out first-hand how much it hurts to watch someone you care about slowly self-destructing. It's such a terrible feeling, and this is what I did to them for a long time (except with cutting instead of alcohol). I guess it's karma.

M always stuck by me when I was in and out of hospitals, getting stitches, etc. I hate that there is nothing I can do for her now that she is the one in trouble.

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Old 06-22-2011, 10:52 PM
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Seems to me if you are going to confront, it should be like an intervention, I.e., tell your friend you have boundaries and if she doesn't get help, you are out of her life. You love her, but her addiction has affected you in negative ways. Let her make her choices and live with the consequences. Otherwise, it is a merry go round that will never end. AlAnon is a great program as is this site to find much needed support.

Take what you like and leave the rest. God bless and good luck!
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:56 PM
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[I)If anyone has any advice, words of wisdom, or even just hugs, it would mean the world to me. Also, after I talk to her, would it be okay for me to come here to vent and get support? I feel so alone, helpless, and useless. [/I]

Hey C,
Sure, I'll give you a :ghug3
Im feeling for you honey, I went through similar with my sister. Its so frustrating, to watch someone you really care about hurt themselves and others. I too came to these forums for help, someone who understood and there are many here who do. So, yes, keep posting , vent all you like, there is always someone who will listen and give you support here.
I always let my sister know I loved her and was kicking goals for her, but its true, we can beat our heads against a brick wall trying to convince them to stop. Something like a lightbulb moment might have to go off in her head, or she just gets sick of tired of being sick and tired.
Come back soon, JJ
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:15 AM
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"She's very anti-AA. She seemed to like that LifeRing group online, because it was secular and without the 12 Steps, but she obviously didn't stick with it."

May I offer a very personal observation on this? I made a friend in AA who quit coming to meetings because he didn't like the spiritual concepts of AA. Like your friend, he said he would use LifeRing online instead. I asked him if online meetings would be a suitable substitute for the face-to-face contact we enjoy in the rooms of AA and he said it would be.

Very soon after that, he was back in active addiction to alcohol, sex and cocaine. Whatever the pros and cons of Lifering (and not having been a member there I can't really judge) it would seem that for some people it enables them to deny the extent of their problem and I can't see how it can offer support which is comporable to regular AA meetings.

The same is true of this Forum, perhaps. As I say, I speak only from personal experience. But for me, SR works most effectively when I combine it with AA meetings. I only really started to go get to sober when I hooked up with a sponsor, agreed to work the steps and made a firm commitment to attend 90 meetings in 90 days. I am now on day 65 and I have not drunk.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:39 AM
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Cerulean,

Welcome to SR.

You DO sound like a really good friend. I know its hard to watch someone you love self-destruct.

The alcoholic in my life is my exhusband (exah). We have a son together. I've spent the last 10 years of my life trying to help him...make him see how his drinking effects him...our family...our son. My exah has been in and out of rehabs and psych wards and yet he is still out there...drinking.

THere is absolutely NOTHING you can do or say to make your friend see that she has a problem and make her want to quit. NOTHING. You can only take steps to protect yourself from the fallout of her drinking. If interaction with her when she has been drinking harms you (and it sounds like it does emotionally), you have a right to make a boundary that you won't be around her when she's drinking. Boundaries are to protect YOU...not her.

I know you worry about what might happen...she might get a DUI or she might kill herself or someone else on the road...You can probably sit there all day and worry about the 'what ifs'...but you have no control over the situation and no amount of worrying will prevent your friend from doing what she's going to do.

If it will make YOU feel better to confront her and tell her how you feel...then do it...but if you have any expectations that she will 'see the light' because of your words, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Your friend already knows she has a problem.

I know its tough.
SR is a great place to get support from people who have been there and understand. Keep coming back! And check out an al anon meeting or two or twelve. They help me so much!!

Hugs to you...
Mary
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:32 AM
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Your conversation with your friend might not make her immediately commit to sobriety, but it might add to the pile of alcohol-related issues she has been experiencing that together will one day lead her to recovery.

It's completely up to you whether you decide if she doesn't get help that you will cut her out of your life. It isn't a requirement, and only you can decide whether maintaining the friendship is so harmful to you that you cannot continue it. Either way, I think you would benefit greatly from Al-Anon for yourself.

Hugs,
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:20 AM
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It's all been so well said... i got nothin to add...

but hugs!!!!:ghug3
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:02 AM
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You are obviously very close to your friend. :-) I am sorry that you have to go through this. It is very hard to watch someone you care about harm themselves and possibly others including you (emotionally). I would have to agree that I could not stand by and say nothing, but do be prepared for an emotionally charged reaction from your friend and don't expect them to stop drinking. I didn't say don't hope and pray. One thing I have learned here is that the only one you can control is yourself. So protect yourself by setting up those bounderies and sticking with them. Offer to support them if they ever do decide to get help, but keep your emotional distance. As a person who has been touched by the pain of your own addiction (self-harm) you are extra vunerable to "feeling their pain". I hope the very best for you and your friend.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
I agree with babyblue, boundaries are to protect you, not her. For example a boundary that you set may be that you won't talk or text with her while she's drunk. If you think she's drunk you stop the conversation. It has nothing to do with controlling her as you can't control her.

I feel for you and believe you are a very good friend. Please come here often as we are here to help and do understand what you are going through.

Your friend,
I'm with M1k3 in the way you can set your boundaries. Not only is my exABF an alcoholic, but one of my best friends is too (I'm surrounded...hmmmm.)

Anyway, with her, I do exactly what is posted here. I have found my friend's pattern of drinking and drunk-texting/dialing, and I just don't answer her calls anytime after 9 p.m. That seems to work for us.

I don't drink at her barbeques, and I show up early and bow out early so that the amount of consumption there does not affect me. Some people may not even be able to attend them at all, but I'm ok as long as I leave within 2 hours. I never offer to get anyone a drink or serve anyone liquor at those functions and I usually drink bottled water myself.

This friend is someone I will meet up with for family functions out and about in our city, and I will care for her children (sleepovers at my house) because I genuinely like her children, but I will not let my child stay overnight there or be driven by her.

Al-anon does help any of us who have been affected by someone else's addiction to alcohol. There is a man in our group whose best friend is an alcoholic, and I've learned a lot from listening to him at meetings. You might find some good resources there, as well as here.

Also, remember, about alcoholism:

You did not cause it,
You cannot control it,
and You cannot cure it.

Your friend will have her own path of recovery when she's really ready. You are best served by finding a path and boundaries that are comfortable for you.

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Old 06-23-2011, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skippernlilg View Post

Also, remember, about alcoholism:

You did not cause it,
You cannot control it,
and You cannot cure it.
Thank you so much. I'm having a lot of trouble with these concepts right now... I feel guilty, because I had been drinking with her occasionally (however, I am not going to anymore; I wouldn't feel at all comfortable with that now that I know she has progressed again). I feel guilty that I believed her when she told me she had learned to moderate and to drink responsibly.

And I wish so much that I could make her all better. I wish I could wave a magic wand and turn her into the moderate/responsible drinker that she thinks she is, even though she isn't. Or I wish I could wave a wand and make her never want to drink again, because she is clearly not somebody who is able to drink responsibly.

I know, rationally, that I cannot cure her. I just hate feeling so powerless. I feel like I am a bad friend because there's nothing I can do.
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cerulean View Post
I know, rationally, that I cannot cure her. I just hate feeling so powerless. I feel like I am a bad friend because there's nothing I can do.
Don't ever underestimate the power of prayer my friend.

My loved ones' prayers were answered when they prayed for me.

It happened in God's time, and not theirs.

:ghug3
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:40 PM
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Also, I want to thank everybody SO MUCH for your responses. I'm truly touched and stunned at the amount of support you are all showing for me. I was afraid people might think I was naive or that it is my fault, because I had believed my friend and had agreed to drink with her in the past. I really appreciate how gentle and validating you are all being with me, as well as being honest with me about the fact that I can't fix my friend, etc. The combination of kindness and hard truth is probably exactly what I ned right now.

I have decided that I will definitely try an Al-Anon meeting. I found one that meets within a couple of miles from where I live, almost every day of the week. So I will try that one first, because I don't know how to drive (I'm old enough; I'm 30! I just never learned to drive; I walk and take buses everywhere).

But I don't know if I can handle talking to my friend about my feelings tomorrow, nor about the boundaries I need to set with her (which I haven't even figured out for myself yet). I had planned to talk with her tomorrow, because she was going to come to my apartment to hang out in the early evening. However, I think I am going to cancel, and make plans to meet with her later. I think it might be good for me to go to an Al-Anon meeting before I try to talk to my friend, so I feel more prepared.

I do know it won't go well; I do know she will be angry, and she might even walk out. And I just don't know how I am going to handle that, honestly. Like I've said, I have my own emotional problems, and I don't know how I am going to handle my best friend hating me, without sending myself into crisis mode (I know I won't self-harm as I did during past crises, but I feel that I need a plan to keep myself from breaking down).

Maybe I am just being a coward, putting this off. But I don't know what else to do. Earlier today, I had an actual panic attack while thinking about confronting my friend. I really, really hate this.
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