A door opened ... then slammed shut :/
 

I have been wanting to talk to my AH for a while about his continued drinking. For those who don't know me yet - I'm new and my AH only drinks after work and on weekends starting about lunch time ... and doesn't stop until we go to bed. That doesn't make him any less of an 'A' even though he thinks he doesn't have a problem. Well last night he opened the proverbial door ...

We were talking about a person we know who is an A - this man's wife moved out about 8 mos ago and took the kids who only visited their dad occasionally. Well apparently he was talking to my FIL about how he lost a custody case and was deemed unfit. He asked my FIL if he thought his drinking was a problem ... my FIL (an retired cop) said "If I were in a cruiser right now and saw you get out of your truck I'd arrest you - yeah, it's a problem." The A then asked my FIL what my UIL did to get sober so my FIL gave him my UIL's number. My AH was flabbergasted that this other man had no idea his drinking was a problem until he lost the custody case (the other man's alcoholism is, I guess you could say, 'more obvious' to other people. I saw this as a possible opening so I took it - agreeing that it seems bizarre when somebody doesn't realize they have a problem with alcohol and then tried to explain about how the chemicals in the brain get so altered that the A may feel like they're a failure when they can't stop or cut down but it's because their brains are changed and it's not a matter of will.

As I was trying to comment my AH inturruped be a couple times with yeah, yeah, yeah I know it's a chemical thing (and when I continued with the part about not being able to stop/cut back) "okay I don't need to know about all the little crap I was just telling you about (the other A man) ..."

Shut down. Hard.

So I'm back to the drawing board. I obviously got too close for comfort but the more I educate myself about Alcoholism the more it all makes sense. I don't know if there is any easy way to approach this conversation (again) but I do want to try. I keep saying to myself something I read on another post that was really helpful to me (can't remember which post, sorry)

I didn't cause it
I can't control it
I can't cure it

But man, it would really help if he could admit that his drinking is not healthy and is messing up his family/home life (even if his work is not effected by it). How hard it is to see and not be able to help at all. I think of leaving but when i really consider it I get a panic response feeling from inside (NO! I don't want to leave!!) ... but I don't want to live on this merry-go-round anymore either :/

LadyM, (((hugs)))

I am sorry about the position you are in. I am willing to bet almost everyone here has been or is in a similar position.

There is nothing you can do or say that will get through to him. What you can do is stat taking care of yourself. Start attending al-anon and spend time here. Educate yourself on how you can fix you. He will decide to get better when he is ready. There is nothing you can do to change that.

Come back here as often as you like, we will be here.

Your friend,

Alcoholism is a disease that tells us alcoholics we don't have it.

Defense mechanisms are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get past in conversing with an alcoholic about his/her alcoholism.

The thing is, you can't make him see what he is doing.

Hey there LadyM....

I think we have all been there... in search of the perfect opportunity, the perfect combination of words... if all the stars would align for us - we could somehow magically get our A's to see just how right we are about their drinking. Oh, it sounds so easy - and if only... except...

it doesn't work that way. Let go of the thought that you need to have a conversation with him about his drinking. Let go of thinking that you can get him to "see" his problem.

It's hard to let go - I know. I've been there. Heck, I just had a conversation with my AH a few weeks ago (check my posts!)... I said my peace about how the drinking affects me, and then I let go. My AH is only going to see that his drinking is a problem - when it becomes a problem for HIM. That's it. Period. The problems I have with his drinking...well, they are MY problems. Mine to find a solution to... not his to resolve.

If being on the merry-go-round is a problem for you - what's your solution to it? (And please don't say - I have to get my AH to stop drinking!) When we look for solutions - we need to look for things that we can control. Other people's behavior/choices/actions? No control.

Accept the reality of your AH - and decide if you can live with that as-is. If not, what can you do to improve the living situation?

Freedom - I know i can't ... ant it drives me crazy because he can see it in others just not himself. And if it's too close to being like him he does get WAY defensive. *sigh*

I haven't been to alanon yet but I know it will help. I don't want my AH to know since it will only bring out the worst in him. I'm too exhausted with all this stuff right now to deal with the snit that will ensue about how I'm just imagining it, how I'm a prude who refuses to have fun anymore (since the birth of our daughter) and how he doesn't have a problem, I just want attention ... quack, quack, quack - blah, blah, blah. God I can hear it now... I don't want to hear it out loud. >.< :lala I don't want to defend myself to him. :wild

Sadly there is no "waking up" the alcoholic. I've tried, believe me I've tried. Had really down to earth heart to heart discussions about it. One day he'll admit to being an alcoholic, and the next second be in complete denial.

THEY have to be the ones to realize it's a problem, no one can tell them otherwise.

Lady,
I'm going to "what if" with you based on the average alcoholic.

What if he never takes your bait and admits he is an alcoholic when you try to get him to?
What if he continues behaving the way he has been?
What if his alcoholism gets progressively worse?
Is that an acceptable relationship and/or life for you?

It may be. You get to decide that. But if its not, what can you do to take care of you? To decrease your stress? To detach from worrying about him cutting back or figuring it out?
Its time for you to put you on the front burner. What do you want in life? How do you want to be treated? What can you focus on in your life?


He may listen to you one day.
He may miraculously cut back.
Chances are, he won't. That's just the way of alcoholism.

So what if you LET GO of trying or even wanting him to get it
and focused on you?

Check out Melody Beattie's Codependent No More. It really helped me.

We're here for you!
p

The only person who can talk to an alcoholic about alcoholism, is another alcoholic.

Attempting to discuss it with him will drive a wedge further between the two of you. I get really annoyed when someone who doesn't suffer from my disease (co-dependancy) attempts to discuss it with me, because they've 'read some books and stuff'. No thanks.

Keep your eyes on your side of the street, and you'll be fine.

I know I have tried the same thing looking for any opportunity to "educate" my AH, a couple of weeks ago I even posted here why can they see others alcoholism but not their own, I have since figured out it is not my job to "educate" him, because he don't see that he has a problem. So I have had to concentrate on my own recovery. It has not been easy, because when I say I try to fix things I mean it, we own a construction company together and up untill a few weeks ago I was the office/project manager, I handled all the schedules, and the problems and the money. So in order to focus on me and take my focus off him I had to turn over my responsibilities to him for now. That has been tough, but worth it in the long run. I know that I must focus on my recovery first and foremost. Alanon has been the best thing I have did for myself in a long time. Wish I had found it years ago.

They have helped me with believeing
I didn't cause it
I can't control it
and I can't cure it

I've been there. And not so long ago.

I talked and explained and babbled and argued and analyzed. Over and over and over again. I kept thinking that if I just explained myself better...if I was more articulate...if I could clarify my words...there had to be something/someway to get through to him.

The only result was further frustration. His denial is the most obvious when he is challenged to evaluate his situation.

You must learn acceptance. Acceptance doesn't imply that change isn't desirable or possible. It doesn't signal defeat. It's not the end of your hopes and dreams. It simply means that you recognize and accept the reality of your life as it actually exists at this moment in time.

Frustrating I know but it wasn't your words or feedback that 'shut him down'. It won't make that much of a difference to him until he is ready to seek recovery on his own.

The interesting part in your story is that I read somewhere where (outside of AA) neutral third party professionals (like a cop, nurse or judge) seem to be able to get messages across to the alcoholic about the damage they are doing to themselves.

Probably because they don't have the emotional investment so the alcoholic doesn't go on the defense. Who knows, maybe some of what the in-law said sunk in.

Regardless, it is what he does with any information that matters. If he isn't ready to commit to stopping then I'd not waste my time researching or educating no matter how valid the info is that you want to share.

That packed a punch and I felt was worth repeating in this thread. Thank you Miss! :)

Al-Anon will help you learn to detach and set boundaries so this doesn't drive you insane or send you into panic mode. It will also teach you that you don't have to defend yourself to him. When those quacks and blah blahs come up, you won't engage in the dance. You will have leaned how to acknowledge without getting sucked back into the insanity.