m1k3

..wasn't the fact that my AW put me through hell and displayed some truly disgusting behavior, it was the fact that she was blacked out during these events and doesn't even remember them. You couldn't talk to her about it and even if she finds her own recovery you still wouldn't be able to because she wouldn't remember. I will never get an apology for what she did to me because to her it never happened.

I have pretty much let go of the anger but it still annoys me at times. I guess the I'm going to marry my ABF but don't worry I can handle it thread dug up some old memories. Glad to throw out some more useless junk.

LaPinturaBella

I an completely empathize with your anger. What makes me the angriest is my exABF wasn't blacked out during his atrocious behavior and he never acknowledges it either. Baffling and cunning is this thing called alcoholism. I hope you find a way to dispel that anger for you. And I too was triggered by that thread. It's such a sad situation. Makes me feel totally helpless. But it's not mine to fix.

m1k3

Actually the anger is pretty well dissipated. Since I've moved out I find myself feeling happy or content for no reason at all. That thread at least was an opportunity t0 clean out some more emotional baggage.

MissChievous

Look at it this way, mlk...even if she did remember it, her memory would be distorted...

LaPinturaBella

Amen! And I'm glad you are feeling happy, content and more centered!

passionfruit

I bought a video camera for exactly that point.

Did no good. He refused to watch it. Turned it off immediately.

Then denied it ever happened.

I still find myself battling the occasionally uprise of anger over his inability to acknowledge what a d*ck he was.

I have yet to find a real solution except to try and feel it.

Time, I guess, heals all wounds they say.

Good luck on that journey.......

dollydo

My exabf always claimed he didn't remember what happened, yet, eventually he would make a comment that would tip his hand. No, he did not remember everything, but he remembered alot more than he acknowledged. He was and probably still is in total denial.

The post you mentioned also triggered me, to me, this will not be a marriage made in heaven! Oh well, not my problem.

Tuffgirl

I have a different view...if my RAH remembered clearly the horrible things he did while under the influence, I think he'd be suicidal. I am glad he doesn't remember events the way I do. I am strong enough to handle the past and to deal with my anger in a healthy way - he isn't and doesn't. That's why he is the alcoholic and I am not.

If your wife stays in recovery, she will have to address some bad behaviors...maybe not all...but some. And it will be a very shameful, painful process.

So when I get really angry - I think of how it must feel to be him, and it helps me have some compassion.

But...I am glad I don't have to live with him anymore!

I don't have the patience....

GettingBy

You know Tuffgirl... that right there is how I feel, at times, too. I have compassion for my AH. I am able to "see" from his side of the street and appreciate the guilt and shame and to somewhat understand why he does what he does. I think that's part of the whole "separate the man from the disease" thing.

The problem with that (which is where I am stuck in my recovery and even hashed it out with my sponsor for almost TWO HOURS last night!!!!! )...

is that I feel like having compassion for him gets me sucked right smack dab into codie mode! I get so good at separate the disease that I am literally able to compartmentalize him in my mind and heart - and so I truly enjoy those moments when "he" is present.

It keeps me stuck.... and that makes me mad. I don't get nearly as mad about his "crap", but my inability to keep my damn head on straight. It's almost like I am too good at the forgiveness part... if that makes sense?!?


I don't know. So even after two hours with my sponsor... I'm still spinning. I'm glad that I am a time zone away from my AH for the next two days. Maybe the space will bring me clarity.

Sorry to hijack your thread Mike.

FreeingMyself

I agree...I think one of the hardest parts for me was that after my stbxah did all those horrible things and said those mean and nasty things (drinking or sometimes not), he NEVER apologized....unless I told him I thought he should, then he'd say Sorry - and move on like it never happened. I just want/wanted to understand how you could treat someone so horribly and not really care...or even fathom how badly you might have hurt them. He is so irrational and our of control anger wise still. Moving forward slowly, but this remined me how odd I find his behavior!!

Ponder

Even worse is when they think it's funny.

"I don't remember driving home.".. *laughter*

Yeah, it's a real knee slapper.

m1k3

GettingBy, not a problem on the hijack. Its all good. I just got back from an hour of jiu jitsu and I am soooooooo tired and sweaty and smelly but the 1st thing I do when I get home is to check the forum. Got to see whats up with my friends.

I feel so sorry for that girl going to marry her ABF. She's got so many people with experience telling her you really don't want to stick your tongue in the fan but .... see my avatar for the rest of the story, Well I've got to get a shower as Im sure some of you fine people can probably smell me.

Your friend,

m1k3

Freeingmyself, so far the only apology either me or my daughters ever got was "I'm sorry you feel that way". QUACK!

GettingBy

Thanks for the laugh... that little guy is perfect!!!

I think part of the "humor" they have... it's a deflection mechanism. I know for me... if I laugh off some major blunder, maybe it won't feel so crappy. Maybe I won't have really face just how crappy my choice/action/behavior was. I know for me - the mornings after drinking too much my reactions were either complete shame (ie. shut down and not talk), overly apologetic, or try and laugh at it even though I was freakin' mortified at what I had done (or at least the parts I could remember).

That crappy morning after feeling... is exactly what keeps my drinking to a minimum. (Damn, i am oozing compassion today... WTF is that!??!?!)


It's a complete waste of time to wait for and want an apology from an alcoholic. They are so buried in their own internal battle and their own pain, shame, and guilt... they can't even begin to face the reality of the hurt they are causing to those loved ones around them.

Tuffgirl

My therapist said this only happens well after the first year of sobriety AND a 12 step program, especially for men (sorry guys, not gender bashing). He also said that men who have been long time drinkers have no clue what they are feeling, let alone how to feel appropriate shame/remorse over the hurt they have caused. I say men because it was in the context of my RAH...and this is my therapist's most humble, educated, experienced opinion, take what works and leave the rest!

FreeingMyself

And laughter...oh that was my stbxah...I would play back the horrible messages he would leave me on my phone threatening me and calling me names.....and he would LAUGH like it was funny.....really??? funny huh??? His behavior is just SO bizarre.
And M1k3 - I hear you about that girl getting married....I think however that I was the same way...anyone could have said anything to me...and I wouldn't have listening because I was ready....I think for me it was a part of being codpendent, and thinking I could fix him...and everything else.

vujade

URGH! I used to get that from an XBF (not an A). That just sent my stomach churning. It was either that or "I didn't hurt your feelings. You let them get hurt."

***waves of nausea***

outonalimb

Mike,
Oh yeah...the anger. I evicted my exah from my home about 8 weeks ago. My exah has convinced himself and everyone who will listen to him that the reason I evicted him was because I was having an affair with our neighbor (I don't even know this man's name, mind you). He's even told people that I am pregnant with this man's baby.

Its just so bizarre. For a brief moment, it pissed me off... How many hours of my life did I try explaining to him in one form or another that his drinking was destroying our family? And yet he runs around telling people it was an affair that doomed our relationship. And I don't think its just a story he made up to save face. I think he really believes it. Its like he had to make something up...anything at all...to explain the demise of our relationship because if he admitted it was alcohol, there would be a corresponding obligation to address the problem.

Denial is a powerful tool. Not just for them but for us too. The whole I'm gonna marry an alcoholic thread but dont' worry I can handle it is a prime example.

They can't apologize for things they deny.

I don't feel like I need an apology...not anymore. And if he wants to run around telling people I slept with every man that lives on our street, I'm okay with it. As long as I can keep moving forward without all the baggage that comes along with his addiction, I'm going to be just fine.
You will too.

m1k3

skw, I really like that quote in your sig.

vujade

Mike - there is a really good passage in Codependent No More that talks about this phenomenon. The As have alcohol to numb their pain and make them forget. The codie, without the numbing substance, stands and bears the brunt of the pain.

I really identified with Lexie on this. I try to remember how horrible it must feel to be the man I love...the guilt and shame have got to be overwhelming. It really does hurt my heart for him. I can walk away knowing that I was kind and respectful...remembering it all. He has to wonder what he said this time and wait to hear the gory details.

All that being said...I really am enjoying a lovely evening at home with my kiddos. Because even though it makes me feel sad for him, I like being peaceful and happy too much to be sad WITH him.