Need advice on how to proceed
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Need advice on how to proceed
My neighbor is in crisis, and I need advice from people who have been there on how best to proceed.
His brother sucessfully committed suicide about 6 weeks ago after a prior unsuccessful attempt. His gf comitted suicide 2 1/2 weeks ago. He was in the apt at the time, passed out, and found her body in the morning.
He has a prior history of alcohol and substance use, possibly addiction, though to my knowledge never diagnosed or treated.
The gf was a train wreck, with a long history of alcohol and substance abuse, behavioral problems, and attendent police problems. If he was heathier himself, he'd be better off with her out of his life, though it might have happened better in a less traumatic way. When she was alive and creating problems, he assumed a role of the healthier, more sober, more sane person in the relationship. With that millstone around his neck to anchor him, he was much more stable.
Since her death, he has been drinking non-stop for ~18 days. He is not working, not eating much, etc. I feel he is at risk of suicide himself, either directly or by drinking himself to death. He has mentioned suicide to me and at least one other person. Without her around to caretake for, he has begun making the problems himself.
He has money problems, and has leaned on me and at least the one other I am in contact with in that regard. His phone has been turned off, and he borrows mine from time to time. I have the other contact from caller id on my phone. She is seems sober, intelligent, basically healthy, and is concerned and would like to help.
But, like me, she's seen this before and while hopeful is unwilling to go much beyond what she's already done as she (as do I with respect to my 'help') feels this just allows him to continue destroying himself.
My questions:
How can I effectively help?
Do I need to just let him spiral out, lose his apt, etc and get desperate (despair-ate?) before I can effectively intervene? I cannot really find a sober moment to speak to him recently when something I say might be heard and considered.
He is on probation from a prior incident with the deceased gf, and his current bender violates the terms of his probation. I've hesitated to contact authorities regarding his current crisis for fear of getting him arrested. On one occaision, police had stopped by to check on him after the gf's suicide. I stopped up to see what was happening, and he was ********* and in the process of goading them into arresting him. The police skedaddled once they had me there to settle him down as they then had an option to leave, and would have had to arrest him if they stayed much longer.
I am now thinking that, given his current self-detructive arc, jail might be relatively positive option as would at least dry him out, and might bring on the self-reflection in a sober state that I think is required to allow him to start breathing again. I think it might could be his 'rock-bottom'.
But, I don't want to be responsible for getting him incarcerated. The criminal justice system is, in general, a pretty heartless one. Any involvement with it tends to lead to more. With as much on his plate as he already has, I don't want to add to it. But I'm starting to think he is reaching a dry out or die point.
Enough. You get the picture by now.
I'm posting because I think it likely that someone here who reads this will have been through something similar, either from my perspective or from his, and could offer some advice as to what, if any, action on my part might help end his descent instead of just prolonging it.
His brother sucessfully committed suicide about 6 weeks ago after a prior unsuccessful attempt. His gf comitted suicide 2 1/2 weeks ago. He was in the apt at the time, passed out, and found her body in the morning.
He has a prior history of alcohol and substance use, possibly addiction, though to my knowledge never diagnosed or treated.
The gf was a train wreck, with a long history of alcohol and substance abuse, behavioral problems, and attendent police problems. If he was heathier himself, he'd be better off with her out of his life, though it might have happened better in a less traumatic way. When she was alive and creating problems, he assumed a role of the healthier, more sober, more sane person in the relationship. With that millstone around his neck to anchor him, he was much more stable.
Since her death, he has been drinking non-stop for ~18 days. He is not working, not eating much, etc. I feel he is at risk of suicide himself, either directly or by drinking himself to death. He has mentioned suicide to me and at least one other person. Without her around to caretake for, he has begun making the problems himself.
He has money problems, and has leaned on me and at least the one other I am in contact with in that regard. His phone has been turned off, and he borrows mine from time to time. I have the other contact from caller id on my phone. She is seems sober, intelligent, basically healthy, and is concerned and would like to help.
But, like me, she's seen this before and while hopeful is unwilling to go much beyond what she's already done as she (as do I with respect to my 'help') feels this just allows him to continue destroying himself.
My questions:
How can I effectively help?
Do I need to just let him spiral out, lose his apt, etc and get desperate (despair-ate?) before I can effectively intervene? I cannot really find a sober moment to speak to him recently when something I say might be heard and considered.
He is on probation from a prior incident with the deceased gf, and his current bender violates the terms of his probation. I've hesitated to contact authorities regarding his current crisis for fear of getting him arrested. On one occaision, police had stopped by to check on him after the gf's suicide. I stopped up to see what was happening, and he was ********* and in the process of goading them into arresting him. The police skedaddled once they had me there to settle him down as they then had an option to leave, and would have had to arrest him if they stayed much longer.
I am now thinking that, given his current self-detructive arc, jail might be relatively positive option as would at least dry him out, and might bring on the self-reflection in a sober state that I think is required to allow him to start breathing again. I think it might could be his 'rock-bottom'.
But, I don't want to be responsible for getting him incarcerated. The criminal justice system is, in general, a pretty heartless one. Any involvement with it tends to lead to more. With as much on his plate as he already has, I don't want to add to it. But I'm starting to think he is reaching a dry out or die point.
Enough. You get the picture by now.
I'm posting because I think it likely that someone here who reads this will have been through something similar, either from my perspective or from his, and could offer some advice as to what, if any, action on my part might help end his descent instead of just prolonging it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
What a tough situation for him.
If he threatens suicide I would call the authorities. They will take it from there. I would also quit running interference for him. His actions may bring opportunities for help if you stay out of the way. How and if he takes advantage of that help is up to him.
My thoughts are with you and your neighbor right now.
If he threatens suicide I would call the authorities. They will take it from there. I would also quit running interference for him. His actions may bring opportunities for help if you stay out of the way. How and if he takes advantage of that help is up to him.
My thoughts are with you and your neighbor right now.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I have to agree with everyone else, there is nothing you can do to help him get better. You can be nice, show compassion and things of that nature but you can't make him want to get better. That is his choice.
I know this is an awful situation for you to be in but it is what it is.
You both have my sympathy and prayers.
I know this is an awful situation for you to be in but it is what it is.
You both have my sympathy and prayers.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
I am so sorry that this is happening to your neighbor. My thoughts are that if he could be found in a sober state, perhaps you could offer an ear, to listen to any thing that he might wish to talk about. He must have some really deep pain and I believe in the power of compassion- if he can be found sober, that is. Talking to a drinking person, or trying to get them to quit , as I am sure that you are wise enough to know, is useless.
As Thumper mentioned, alerting authorities if he is talking suicide is definitely a must. Right now he must be in a very delicate position. If he has had no one to talk to, it must be nearly unbearable. You are a caring person, and he is lucky to have someone who cares.
hugs
chicory
As Thumper mentioned, alerting authorities if he is talking suicide is definitely a must. Right now he must be in a very delicate position. If he has had no one to talk to, it must be nearly unbearable. You are a caring person, and he is lucky to have someone who cares.
hugs
chicory
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Call your local mental health authority - usuallly it's a county or city level department depending on where you live. This guy needs more help than you are capable of giving, but making a phone call or two could well save his life.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
God, that poor man... 2 suicides in his life in 6 weeks? Wow. And you are a lovely soul for caring and wanting to help... I certainly have no idea about what you could do that would make it better since I think that's up to him, but I'd second the suggestion that you bring a meal perhaps and a note saying that you're around to lend an ear if he needs to talk to someone?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Thank you all for your replies.
It was taken out of my hands to some extent a little while after I originally posted. Interesting timing; just when I decide things are headed for worse and start thinking about what to do about it, well, here it is.
I got a call from the out-of-state friend. He'd e-mailed her that he'd taken all of his prescriptions and 'see you in the next life.' She called me to go check on him.
He was still concious and coherent, but clearly in a bad way. Might have slept it off and might not have. I decided I couldn't take the chance, despite his telling me to leave him alone and let him go to sleep.
He'd eaten whatever was left in a bottle of xanax and another rx of something I didn't recognize. This on top of buckets more alcohol.
I got him to the ER. I decided since he was talking and making some sense and could walk with help that I didn't need to 911 and get an ambulance (and, undoubtedly, the police as well).
They are going to get him past the od risk, then assess whether he could do outpatient or needs inpatient psychiatric care.
Mostly, at the moment, I'm very very angry with him. As if he needed to go to this exteme to say 'help'. Maybe he needed to mess himself up this much to accept help. Most of all, I'm angry at him for the way he perked up a little once he had mama nurse cooing sypathetically to him. Yes; two suicides inside two months... I'm a hard person but I won't presume to guess how that'd play out for me. But I wouldn't be milking it. And I think, on a level, he is.
At any rate, I don't have to make any decisions about him for a bit.
It was taken out of my hands to some extent a little while after I originally posted. Interesting timing; just when I decide things are headed for worse and start thinking about what to do about it, well, here it is.
I got a call from the out-of-state friend. He'd e-mailed her that he'd taken all of his prescriptions and 'see you in the next life.' She called me to go check on him.
He was still concious and coherent, but clearly in a bad way. Might have slept it off and might not have. I decided I couldn't take the chance, despite his telling me to leave him alone and let him go to sleep.
He'd eaten whatever was left in a bottle of xanax and another rx of something I didn't recognize. This on top of buckets more alcohol.
I got him to the ER. I decided since he was talking and making some sense and could walk with help that I didn't need to 911 and get an ambulance (and, undoubtedly, the police as well).
They are going to get him past the od risk, then assess whether he could do outpatient or needs inpatient psychiatric care.
Mostly, at the moment, I'm very very angry with him. As if he needed to go to this exteme to say 'help'. Maybe he needed to mess himself up this much to accept help. Most of all, I'm angry at him for the way he perked up a little once he had mama nurse cooing sypathetically to him. Yes; two suicides inside two months... I'm a hard person but I won't presume to guess how that'd play out for me. But I wouldn't be milking it. And I think, on a level, he is.
At any rate, I don't have to make any decisions about him for a bit.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Darklight,
I'd thought about al-anon. Your link prompted me to consider it further. There is a meeting tomorrow noon near me. I'll be attending. I could use some advice on where to draw boundaries. He's a neighbor. In this world, that has mostly ceased to mean much. But I wish it had not and have to act accordingly. He's not a close friend; he's not terribly important to me, though (I think) I've become important to him. But I may just be another mark in a history of his using the people available to him. Certainly the discussions I've had with his freind have made me suspect that that history exists. Am I just going to have to put on the armor? I think so. I DO care. I'm just worried that he's toxic. I really have enough issues of my own; I'm not interested in making a project out of him. I think that is what he wants so that he can prove he's unfixable. I hope to meet some people who can help me set appropriate boundaries so that I can be available to help w/o compromising myself.
I'd thought about al-anon. Your link prompted me to consider it further. There is a meeting tomorrow noon near me. I'll be attending. I could use some advice on where to draw boundaries. He's a neighbor. In this world, that has mostly ceased to mean much. But I wish it had not and have to act accordingly. He's not a close friend; he's not terribly important to me, though (I think) I've become important to him. But I may just be another mark in a history of his using the people available to him. Certainly the discussions I've had with his freind have made me suspect that that history exists. Am I just going to have to put on the armor? I think so. I DO care. I'm just worried that he's toxic. I really have enough issues of my own; I'm not interested in making a project out of him. I think that is what he wants so that he can prove he's unfixable. I hope to meet some people who can help me set appropriate boundaries so that I can be available to help w/o compromising myself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Posts: 383
I think you are a very kind and compassionate person...and that's wonderful. I also applaud you for going to l-non to learn about boundaries. Because you will need strong ones with him. While it's heartbreaking what he's been through, he very well could be manipulating the situation to set you up as his next enabler. Good for you to nip that in the bud. Kudos for helping to save his life. However, even more kudos for recognizing that it is not your responsibility to save him from himself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by cynical one 
One thing to think about to put that anger into perspective is…he's not drinking AT you, he's not manipulating the nurses AT you, it's NOT personal, so try not to take it that way. He's just an acquaintance who is emotionally suffering, and you (none of us) are not equipped to deal with it.
To me providing resources to someone in a crisis is not enabling and not taking him on as a project. Giving him a list of crisis centers, suicide hotlines, and as someone mentioned above county or state mental health services phone numbers...but don't make those calls for him.
If he was a close friend, then yes an ear, but he's not…and I wouldn't want to risk my own serenity by hearing his woes and then not knowing what the proper thing to say is…that's what the professionals are for.
To me providing resources to someone in a crisis is not enabling and not taking him on as a project. Giving him a list of crisis centers, suicide hotlines, and as someone mentioned above county or state mental health services phone numbers...but don't make those calls for him.
If he was a close friend, then yes an ear, but he's not…and I wouldn't want to risk my own serenity by hearing his woes and then not knowing what the proper thing to say is…that's what the professionals are for.
Oh, I've given the ear. I've given the ear 'til it hurt and then some, and been circumspect in my response, which was very very difficult for me. I felt at first that he just needed somewhere to let it out, and that I could understand that, and that I could do that much. I sat with him while the police watched us on the am he found the gf, and let him talk, and then told him that they were going to need to look at him in regards to her death and rule him out, and to not get angry when they did; they HAVE to; it's their job.
But that was over two weeks ago. I've been around for him. I've gone over and checked on him. I've had him to dinner when my gf was over and failed to notice the inappropriate 'hugs' of 'sympathy' she endured rolling her eyes at me over his shoulder.
But 18 days of solid binge? That's not grief. That's a lifestyle choice. I outweigh him by ~70 lb and despite being borderline pro myself I can't drink like that and wouldn't want to try.
Sorry for the rant; I'm just so pissed off right now. Dumb baby is taking up bed space and resources at the er that he can't pay for because he declines to grow up. I'm seeing the layers that would have to be peeled back and addressed to even begin on his real issues. And wondering if it is even possible, let alone worth the effort. I mean, the suicides are a secondary, even tertiary triggering issue. The real problems are so much deeper. Again, sorry for ranting; I'm letting this out here, now, as I think it harmless here and that getting it vented may leave me more clear later.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Posts: 383
Glad you are seeing the red flags. You're right, he's had problems for a long, long time. And the only one who can fix them is him. I'd be nice when you see him since he lives next door, but I'd also keep my distance. His problems are his problems and you have your own life to live.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 82
i think at this point, MENTAL HEALTH issues are the main concern so i wouldn't be afraid of him going to jail. i've been in your shoes of having to go to the ER after finding someone attempting suicide. in actuality, this might be the best thing he's got going--because any time someone attempts suicide, they have a mandatory mental health evaluation. i hope he ends up getting the help he needs.
as for your role or what you should do... i am not sure if al-anon would be exactly the avenue. i understand it's free... but what you're dealing with is slightly different. clearly the issues are very deep with having experienced two very traumatic experiences within weeks of each other. i'd go seek the advice of a therapist or be proactive in getting information from the hospital. if he has to go to the psychiatric ward, you will most likely have access considering you're the one that brought him in... TALK to the people there and see if they have advice. they may be able to steer you to a therapist or a group counseling type situation regarding providing that particular kind of support.
i've had a friend attempt suicide who suffered from depression as well as an xabf that suffered from depression and is an alcoholic... although they do overlap, they each have a different dynamic.
as for your role or what you should do... i am not sure if al-anon would be exactly the avenue. i understand it's free... but what you're dealing with is slightly different. clearly the issues are very deep with having experienced two very traumatic experiences within weeks of each other. i'd go seek the advice of a therapist or be proactive in getting information from the hospital. if he has to go to the psychiatric ward, you will most likely have access considering you're the one that brought him in... TALK to the people there and see if they have advice. they may be able to steer you to a therapist or a group counseling type situation regarding providing that particular kind of support.
i've had a friend attempt suicide who suffered from depression as well as an xabf that suffered from depression and is an alcoholic... although they do overlap, they each have a different dynamic.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I'm in agreement that Alanon may not be the place,
but I've learned that people in recovery
are some of the most CONNECTED people on the planet
and their knowledge of resources
would be a great help; to you.
In many ways
his drinking has crossed
far more than mere 'property lines'
and invaded your life.
I think Alanon, while perhaps not
a long - term kind of answer for you
personally
would be a fabulous
resource circle for you
filled with compassionate ears
and active minds
that can help
find the answers you might
be looking for right now.
but I've learned that people in recovery
are some of the most CONNECTED people on the planet
and their knowledge of resources
would be a great help; to you.
In many ways
his drinking has crossed
far more than mere 'property lines'
and invaded your life.
I think Alanon, while perhaps not
a long - term kind of answer for you
personally
would be a fabulous
resource circle for you
filled with compassionate ears
and active minds
that can help
find the answers you might
be looking for right now.
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