Don't know what to do with my brother . . .
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2
Don't know what to do with my brother . . .
My brother went to rehab in 2006. He hit rock bottom just prior - wife kicked him out and filed for divorce, lost his job, lost just about everything. He was an active participant in AA for several years. He claims to be continuing to go. He lost his new job in 2008 and lived off unemployment until it ran out at the end of last year. He tends to be rather lazy - spends quite a bit of time watching TV, sleeping. He has always put the least amount of energy necessary into anything that he does. The unemployment was perfect for him because he didn't have to work, but still had some cash to live on.
Our mother passed away in 2008 and left each one of us some money. He has used up every cent of this to live on and to pay off astronomical credit card bills that he racked up prior to rehab. He has also used up his retirement account. My mother also left us some real estate, however, that hasn't sold due to the housing market. We have a small amount of cash that we put aside to maintain the real estate. In February, my brother got a new sales job but had a cash flow issue and asked for some money from this small reserve. We gave it to him, but now three months later he is asking for more.
We believe he may be drinking again, but at this time he is still holding onto the job. We have recently found out that he is in mega trouble with the IRS. My siblings and I are very tired of his antics. We know that if we give him this requested cash, he will be back again in a couple of months. Technically, the money is his, but we all agreed that we would leave a reserve to maintain the real estate until it sells.
My siblings and I are tempted to just buy him out of the real estate. None of us like being in this role. We are nervous what the IRS could do to this asset that we jointly own.
I also am nervous about giving him a large check because if he is drinking again -- who knows what he will do.
Any advice?
Our mother passed away in 2008 and left each one of us some money. He has used up every cent of this to live on and to pay off astronomical credit card bills that he racked up prior to rehab. He has also used up his retirement account. My mother also left us some real estate, however, that hasn't sold due to the housing market. We have a small amount of cash that we put aside to maintain the real estate. In February, my brother got a new sales job but had a cash flow issue and asked for some money from this small reserve. We gave it to him, but now three months later he is asking for more.
We believe he may be drinking again, but at this time he is still holding onto the job. We have recently found out that he is in mega trouble with the IRS. My siblings and I are very tired of his antics. We know that if we give him this requested cash, he will be back again in a couple of months. Technically, the money is his, but we all agreed that we would leave a reserve to maintain the real estate until it sells.
My siblings and I are tempted to just buy him out of the real estate. None of us like being in this role. We are nervous what the IRS could do to this asset that we jointly own.
I also am nervous about giving him a large check because if he is drinking again -- who knows what he will do.
Any advice?
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,868
You are probably right about him continuing to ask for more. I agree with your thoughts about just buying him out and being done with it. If he's in trouble with the IRS, I wouldn't want any of my business tied up with him. Other than that, there's nothing you can or should do for him. He's an adult and if he wants to squander his money and his life, he has the right to do so.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 427
The IRS could already have a lien on the property, I would try to find out if I were you.
It's a hard situation, I know and I have been there plenty. In my experience, the money will go toward alcohol. I personally wouldn't donate a dime to his drinking fund. That's just me. Sounds like that rock bottom is on the horizon......again.
Good luck to you. There are a lot of smart and experience people here. I imagine you will receive a lot of feedback!
It's a hard situation, I know and I have been there plenty. In my experience, the money will go toward alcohol. I personally wouldn't donate a dime to his drinking fund. That's just me. Sounds like that rock bottom is on the horizon......again.
Good luck to you. There are a lot of smart and experience people here. I imagine you will receive a lot of feedback!
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,868
If the money is technically his, then you have no right to keep it from him. What he plans on doing with it is none of your business. If he wants to drink, he's going to drink and it has nothing to do with whether or not you give him a big check. If he was asking for YOUR money, then you would have every right to say no, I'll not contribute to your addiction. Since the money is legally his, you don't have that right in this case.
What we need to learn is that we cannot control our addicts. They are going to do whatever they are going to do and it has absolutely nothing to do with us.
What we need to learn is that we cannot control our addicts. They are going to do whatever they are going to do and it has absolutely nothing to do with us.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
There is plenty of advice on this forum on how to deal with an alcoholic. I believe in this case you need to talk to a lawyer and do it quick. These are legal issues you are dealing with that could have a big impact on you and your family. Get legal advice to determine what your rights and obligations are especially about jointly owned property.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
To me, it depends how the home is deeded, if you all on the deed as owners, his mishaps can effect you. If he is on the deed, the home is up for grabs if he is slapped with an IRS lien, the home is in jeapordy.
What he does with the money is his business, however, if it were me, I'd protect myself.
What he does with the money is his business, however, if it were me, I'd protect myself.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2
Thank you all for your responses. The real estate is owned by a trust that is owned by my siblings and I. If he doesn't pay this IRS debt (which he can't because he is flat broke), they could lein the property and prevent a sale until the debt was paid. The safest thing to do is to buy him out and have him relinquish all claims to the trust. We are working on all of the legal issues right now. We can also buy him out with the cavat that he pays his IRS debt with the buy out.
My struggle is giving him a large check. I know what he will do with it. But - as many of you have said - I can't control him and the money is his. I feel selfish because a huge part of me wants to buy him out just to get out of the involvement in his financial affairs.
My struggle is giving him a large check. I know what he will do with it. But - as many of you have said - I can't control him and the money is his. I feel selfish because a huge part of me wants to buy him out just to get out of the involvement in his financial affairs.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Personally, I'd structure it that any more cash advances of his rightful money is tied to his signature on the buyout. You have every right to protect yourselves, and his problems do not belong to you if you separate them out legally. It's a reasonable trade off, to require release from any future problems in conjunction with his access to his portion. If he takes his portion of cash, but retains the possibility of robbing you and your siblings of yours (via his financial problems, for example a creditor putting a lien on the commonly owned asset), that is not fair. He should not be able to threaten the security of your (plural, you and other siblings) portions while ALSO having free cash flow. Don't let him hedge his bets both ways.
We already know what he will do with any money, it's a matter of HOW MUCH money, and whose it is.
It is not of your doing, nor should it be your problem to solve, his financial dilemmas.
CLMI
We already know what he will do with any money, it's a matter of HOW MUCH money, and whose it is.
It is not of your doing, nor should it be your problem to solve, his financial dilemmas.
CLMI
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,868
I feel selfish because a huge part of me wants to buy him out just to get out of the involvement in his financial affairs.
That is no reason to feel selfish. It's called self-preservation and it's inate within us. Do whatever you have to do to keep yourself and your other siblings from feeling any consequences of his actions, then be done with it. The legal route is the way to go. Once you buy him out or pay him or whatever, it will be the last time you'll have to worry about it.
Good luck! Hope it all works out for you.
That is no reason to feel selfish. It's called self-preservation and it's inate within us. Do whatever you have to do to keep yourself and your other siblings from feeling any consequences of his actions, then be done with it. The legal route is the way to go. Once you buy him out or pay him or whatever, it will be the last time you'll have to worry about it.
Good luck! Hope it all works out for you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: By a River
Posts: 83
For his sake, I'd buy him out with the cavat that he pay the IRS with the buy out.
For your sake, and peace of mind, I'd do whatever I had to do to get him to relinquish any legal rights to the property.
As you said, the money is legally his. What he does with it is up to him. If he knows you will bail him out, he will continue to expect to be bailed out. He needs to face the consequences of his own actions.
I'm sorry that you're in this situation...I know it's hard.
For your sake, and peace of mind, I'd do whatever I had to do to get him to relinquish any legal rights to the property.
As you said, the money is legally his. What he does with it is up to him. If he knows you will bail him out, he will continue to expect to be bailed out. He needs to face the consequences of his own actions.
I'm sorry that you're in this situation...I know it's hard.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
I agree with many others on here... get his name off any and all paperwork that you can, and wash your hands of it. If some of that money is rightfully his, he can do whatever he wants with it. If he chooses to pay the IRS, good for him. But don't be disappointed if he doesn't. That's where detachment comes in.
It's not your fault, and even if you gave him money in good faith a couple of months ago and he chose to drink it away, you are not responsible for it. As long as you learn from the experience, that is what is important.
My ASF did something very similar. The debt he racked up was huge over the last couple years, from drinking and buying drugs. My sister and I were in denial, and were helping him out. My sister was even paying half of the mortgage on the house. When he got arrested, we had to go home and deal with the house, and uncovered all the debt and other issues he had gotten himself into. We did all the dirty work, calling people who owed him money, begging them to repay so we could make his bail. I gave money, she gave money. He went in 'recovery', court mandated AA and community service. He finally sold the house, and with is new buttload of cash he is now drinking until he dies, as he so eloquently put it at my sister's wedding. And as an adult, that is his right. I haven't talked to him in months. We will never help him again. He will need it soon, but that's no longer my problem.
Some people's bottoms are lower than we could ever imagine. What seems like the most devastating consequences to us are a drop in the bucket for them, because of course as long as they have the drink, nothing seems that bad.
I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. Do what is best for everyone else, and let him fend for himself. That's the best thing you can do, for yourselves, and for him.
It's not your fault, and even if you gave him money in good faith a couple of months ago and he chose to drink it away, you are not responsible for it. As long as you learn from the experience, that is what is important.
My ASF did something very similar. The debt he racked up was huge over the last couple years, from drinking and buying drugs. My sister and I were in denial, and were helping him out. My sister was even paying half of the mortgage on the house. When he got arrested, we had to go home and deal with the house, and uncovered all the debt and other issues he had gotten himself into. We did all the dirty work, calling people who owed him money, begging them to repay so we could make his bail. I gave money, she gave money. He went in 'recovery', court mandated AA and community service. He finally sold the house, and with is new buttload of cash he is now drinking until he dies, as he so eloquently put it at my sister's wedding. And as an adult, that is his right. I haven't talked to him in months. We will never help him again. He will need it soon, but that's no longer my problem.
Some people's bottoms are lower than we could ever imagine. What seems like the most devastating consequences to us are a drop in the bucket for them, because of course as long as they have the drink, nothing seems that bad.
I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. Do what is best for everyone else, and let him fend for himself. That's the best thing you can do, for yourselves, and for him.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belton, MO
Posts: 18
I am sorry that you have to go through this difficult situation. It is always complicated when someone dies and leaves property to more than one person. You should definately buy him out and protect your interests. Hopefully he will pay off his debts and get his life back on track. He probably lost ground on his recovery due to the unemployment deal. I am not an A and I become very depressed easily because I haven't been able to get a job in this economy. I can't imagine struggling with addiction issues at the same time. Tell your brother how you feel and then leave him to think about it. If he went into recovery one time, maybe all he needs is for someone to call him on his bad decision making. When people are in bad situations, they rarely know the damage they are doing until its too late. If he continues to drink, know you said your peace and take care of you and yours.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
We are all stabbing in the dark here. Trusts are complicated things--there are probably provisions about sale of the property in the trust. My first husband (good friend) recently went through the process of extricating himself from property he shared (in trust) with his late mother's ne'er do well husband. You need legal advice about the tax issue and about the sale, or you could have some nasty surprises. Find a good estate lawyer and get some sound advice.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Are you seriously considering giving him the money? Really? Good God.
Cyranoak
Cyranoak
After being through that wringer, yes, I would say if he is legally entitled to it, give him the money because we can't make moral judgements about things like this when there are in fact legal judgements in place. I didn't think my mentally ill brother had the right to the house and the money that he essentially stole from my parents...but it was legal. There was nothing I could do but follow the law.
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