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Confused about the concept of God's Will

Old 06-07-2011, 10:24 AM
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Confused about the concept of God's Will

After thinking about it and reading about it all weekend, I am still stumped on this concept and what it means in AA and Al-Anon.

And when I mean confused...I am thinking more along the lines of active vs. passive...it seems a passive approach to life to turn something over to God's Will or pray to find God's will without taking any action of your own. However, I get the idea between self-will (fitting everything to MY desires) and God's will in the sense that maybe how I want things to be aren't as they are going to be. Just not sure how to connect it all together when it comes to taking any action.

Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated...I know I have to find my own way just as we find the HP of our understanding... I am curious to see how others interpret God's will so maybe I can find a new way to incorporate this into my thinking.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:15 AM
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I figure my HP wants me to honor and nurture myself in all ways. Physically, mentally, and spiritually. I think of HP's will as me doing what I need in good conscience. When I do that to the best of my ability, I end up honoring others, too.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:15 AM
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This is a sticky concept to grasp isn't it? And I think it will being about a GREAT conversation. So first up, thanks for posting this.

To me (raised Lutheran, I believe in God but view my relationship with him to be very personal and more spiritual, rather than blindly following dogma), I believe God's will involves helping us to be the best human we can be. I do not believe he has every step of our lives pre-ordained. If He did, where would free-will fit into the equation, and I do believe he has given us free-will.

I also believe that pure self-will sets us up to be controlling and to believe WE are God. Not a good thing and it usually doesn't work out too well. So, my take is that God's will and free-will are in a fine balance and go hand in hand. I pray for guidance that I am on the right path and make decisions based on the knowledge I have at the time. If it's wrong, it is revealed and I make adjustments. If I'm on the right path with my actions, it works out and I take it my will and God's will are in agreement.

Does this help at all? Looking forward to others' take on this subject and exploring it further.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:19 AM
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Wow, this is a tough one to answer and I’m probably not the best person to try and answer this, but I’m doing it in part for me.
I am an atheist so I don’t believe in god. But I do find myself drawn to Zen and Taoism.
To me letting god is living with and within the flow of events that happen in your life. It is not passive at all. It is recognizing that are things you can control and things you can’t and focusing on the things you can control and accepting those that you can’t.
Example: If I plan a picnic for Saturday and it rains there is no sense in me getting upset about the weather, it is what it is. I don’t like it but I accept it for what it is. It doesn’t mean that I can’t plan a different activity for Saturday though, or even have a picnic on the porch.
It means (to me) owning your life, words, thoughts and actions and letting go of the rest. They’re not yours to own. This is something I forgot for a long time.
It goes very well with the 3 c’s.
It’s one of those things you “get”. You’ll know it when you feel it. That’s the best I can describe it for me. And just because you get it once doesn’t mean you can’t lose it again. Like recovery it one of those things you have to work on hanging on to.
This was a good question for me because I was having trouble letting go of some baggage today. I think I’ll just put it down, the baggage isn’t mine and I don’t feel like carrying it any more.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:38 AM
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In my experience, following the will of HP is a very active process, not passive. It involves the energy of love of the life we have been given; we, in a sense, "exchange" love to HP for giving us the gift of life, when we ask what HP's will is for us to follow.

HP's perspective is the ultimate big picture - HP sees how our individual lives fit together as a whole, and HP wants the highest and best for each of us individually as well as for creation as a whole.

So following HP's will involves asking what my Next Step is. What is my next step in bringing about the Heaven that life was meant to be, for myself as well as for all of Creation? Sometimes, that answer is abstract and I don't fully understand how it fits in. I know that HP has the ultimate Big Picture, and when I do my part - a very active process - it makes my world, and everyone else's, the best it can be. My personal goal is to be doing this 24/7.

Truly a work in progress.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:09 PM
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I think the conclusion I've come to (for now) is that God is about true relationship and not about power. So it's not about God bossing me around like a minion -- it's about God nudging me gently in the direction that is the best for me to go.

I think of God as a good parent encouraging his/her children to make decisions that are good for them. And I think of me as the kid in the car going "are you SURE we're on the right way? Why aren't we there yet? I need to pee! Are you sure we didn't miss our exit?" LOL

I've seen the bumper sticker that says "If God's your co-pilot, you're in the wrong seat" but I don't think that's right. I think God wants me to drive, but God wants to give me directions on where I would like to go. Like a really good travel guide who knows what I'm really looking for, even when I don't.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:23 PM
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Okay, here is how I looked at Step 3 and then put it into action.

I made a decision. That is all Step 3 is asking us to do. Do we believe enough in an HP, whom we cannot see, feel, or touch to make a DECISION. The decision is are we willing to turn our will and our life over to the care of "God" as we understand him/her/it?

The next thing that came for me, was to learn how to first, thing each morning ask my HP to guide me throughout the day to do THE NEXT CORRECT THING. For me that means stopping and thinking and analyzing the 'options.' And then listening for a moment or two. Usually the thought that comes into my head is the next correct thing, even if I don't see it at the moment. In other words I go with my gut.

At night right before retiring I thank HP for helping me through the day.

Now, this does not mean that once in a while, I get into a 'self will run riot mode' and do what I want to do, when I want to do it, knowing full well that this is not the correct decision and I will end up paying the consequences including a Step 10 that evening.

J M H O that has worked for me these many years now.

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:02 PM
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Thanks all... this is very helpful. It is easy to get tangled in 'God's will' and 'Let go and Let God' if you look at it as a cop-out to not deal with something that you should actively own and take part in. I think over the years my agnostic side of me has overruled my spiritual side on the concept of 'Letting go and letting God'.

That is my primary concern...finding the balance between being led by my self-will versus God's will. I can be pretty assertive. I am also very goal oriented. And I recognize that this is one of my defects that is also one of my assets...and moderation is the key. I can also get controlling and try to force my needs onto someone else when in fact, they are mine to deal with. I guess in that sense God's will would be for me to keep it on my side of the street?!
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:04 PM
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The difference between God's will and my will is that my will hurts.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:10 PM
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Oh, and if we're talking Step 3, it became a lot easier for me when I read it and saw that it said (my bolding)
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.
For someone who's been in an alcoholic marriage as the codependent party, the idea of "handing over" control over anything is friggin SCARY. I mean, that's what I just got out of. No way am I handing over the reins to anyone else!

But it says... turn our will and lives over to the care of.
Not the control of.

God cares. God doesn't control.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:37 PM
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“Letting go” is similar to floating in water. When we first learn to float, someone often has to put their hands under us at first before we learn to trust the water to hold us up. When we first learn to trust God in this way, we may have to have someone walk it with us who has been there before. We gradually, a step at a time, learn to trust that letting go of control of our own lives, to a God we can’t literally see, will work. God will hold us up just as the water does when we float.

We need to learn from others’ experiences. We can start by reading the Bible and looking at the many stories where people surrendered control to God and He came through for them. Letting go seems unnatural for most human beings. So, as we study the lives of others, we begin to see God’s hand at work, as we similarly would watch others float before we tried it in the previous analogy.

Can you imagine when David walked up to a Giant with just a sling-shot and a stone? Can you imagine when Noah and his sons began to build a giant boat in the middle of dry land? Can you imagine when Daniel continued to pray to his God, leaving the consequences to Him, even though it meant a fiery furnace? Can you imagine a young single woman finding herself pregnant with God’s child just as she is about to marry her future husband? All of these people had to lean on God, and God held them up every single time.

Practice letting go. When learning to float, we often do it in short bursts at first, allowing fear to take over a few times before we finally get to that point that we no longer fear the water. Letting go sometimes works the same way. It takes practice. When we let go of something, we learn something from it, making our faith stronger for the next time. How many times has life been so totally out of control and in hindsight we can admit that God worked it out in His own way and in His own time. Each time, faith is strengthened and fear is lessened.

It takes practice to let go. When learning to float, we often do it in short bursts at first, allowing fear to take over a few times before we finally get to that point that we no longer fear the water. Letting go sometimes works the same way. It takes practice. When we let go of something, we learn something from it, making our faith stronger for the next time. How many times have our lives been totally out of our control and God worked it out in His own way and in His own time? Each time, faith is strengthened and fear is lessened.

Only total surrender to God’s will in God’s way and in God’s timing will allow a life that truly honors Him. As humans, we may not have what we need to surrender at the beginning, but as we learn about God and His ways, practice letting go and then move to full surrender, God will do what He says He will do.

Once a person has truly experienced the wonder of letting go and letting God, he or she is forever changed. Remember the wonder the first time you realized water would hold you up? Multiply that by many times and you will begin to understand how great a life God will supply. Will everything be easy? No way. It may even be harder by the world’s standards. But, God promises to always walk with us through the pain and to work things for good to those that love Him and are called by Him.

God doesn't put us in a situation which He won't accompany us through.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:34 PM
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I really like this thread. As someone who has always had faith but yet never fully trusted God, the concepts in AA or Alanon involving giving into God's will, Letting go and letting God etc have been a little bit of a struggle for me. There is part of me that is angry with God, he took my mother when she was 47 just a few days after my first child was born. I explained this to my brother who is very religious and he simply said to me that God did not take mom, he just welcomed her into heaven when it was her time to be there. My mom made choices (her free will) to act in ways that more than likely caused her to die early in life (smoking, stress). I am also certain that God encouraged her many times to make better choices. How this relates to God's will is simply allowing him to guild you to making choices that are the best, even if you don't feel it is the way you want things to work out. I want my AH to find recovery and I want to live happily ever after, but my AH may not be following that path so I have to accept that God will see me through if I let him. As I struggle with the next steps I need to take in life I have found that if I give it time and listen to my gut (which I think is God) the answers are coming. I find that when the pieces fall into place I am on the right track. If I am really struggling to make things fit it is likely my will that is taking over.

Right now I am struggling with going back to work full time. It is a step in the direction of seeing my marriage failing. I would only be doing it because I don't feel that things will get better. BUT I really don't want to go back to work full time. I really want my AH to "get it" and get better. The signs I have been given so far tell me that I really should go back. I have been in contact with a friend who can help me. We started talking again and meeting for lunch after many years of just exchanging Christmas cards. I really believe God put her back into my life now for a reason. Every discussion/talk with my AH makes my gut scream "this is not getting better", "there is nothing he is saying which tells me to give it more time". So I keep taking baby steps toward getting back to work and every step I take makes me feel better, not worse. It makes me see that I am on the right path and it gives me strength to take more steps. There is nothing passive about finding a job!

I hope my rambling helped a bit. I think little by little I am starting to understand more about how Alanon works. There is a balance in life we all should strive to have. Our HP can help us through to find this balance even in our darkest hours.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Darklight View Post
...Except for women, Jews, and gay/bisexual/lesbian people.
I've often gone into the inner planes - meditation and asked HP, "Was this a man interpreting, or was this truly You?" I prefer to get the information directly from HP instead of second-hand through someone who wrote about HP.

The responses I get are ALL in alignment with: HP wants the best for each of us. HP doesn't discriminate on who deserves the HP's love. It is we who become disconnected. And that does not depend on one's earthly definitions, including sex, sexual preference, religion.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Darklight View Post
That's a good way to put it.



Except for women, Jews, and gay/bisexual/lesbian people.
And He has, and he will, come through for women, Jews and gay/bisexual/lesbian people also. In ways which we do not readily recognize. And He's not done being on their side. He obviously has lessons he needs to teach the rest of us first.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lillamy View Post
Oh, and if we're talking Step 3, it became a lot easier for me when I read it and saw that it said (my bolding)


For someone who's been in an alcoholic marriage as the codependent party, the idea of "handing over" control over anything is friggin SCARY. I mean, that's what I just got out of. No way am I handing over the reins to anyone else!

But it says... turn our will and lives over to the care of.
Not the control of.

God cares. God doesn't control.
(((((lillamy)))))))

Thank you for that!! I just love what you said!!

I really think God wants me to have a joyful, happy life. I think about what I want for MY son and I just want him to be happy no matter what he does or where he goes in life. I don't want to chart his path for him. I want him to chart it himself. In the end, I just want him to find true peace and contentment.

I think God feels the same way about us.

We're going to make mistakes and mess things up royally. (don't I know it!!) And that's okay. God doesn't love us any less. But I think he's always standing there...at the ready...hoping that we listen to our hearts and listen for his voice as he whispers love and encouragement in our ears. We just need to be open to the message he is sending. Every day I pray that I will be open to his love and guidance. For me, this is what turning my life over to his care means.

Great post...thanks for starting it Tuffgirl!!
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:26 PM
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I remember reading this somewhere. "Pray for potatoes, but you need to do some work with the hoe".

This rings true for me - I need to put the effort in (I'm responsible) but I cannot be hung up on the outcome. That I have no control of.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:04 PM
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I've always struggled with the concept of a HP, of the whole God thing, the concept that there is an entity looking out for you. I turn it over in my mind and when I think I have found an answer, my mind goes off on another tangent and I find myself right back at square one.

I have really enjoyed this thread, reading everyone's thoughts, ramblings, feelings on a HP and I think something struck me when I read Alone22's post, being mad at God. I had the same feelings when my dad passed away, when my beloved dog passed away and other things in my life that I questioned the existence of God. I've been questioning that for a long time but slowly, through going to Al-anon and following the Steps, Traditions and Concepts, my perspective is slowly shifting.

When Alone22 talked about "listening to her gut", it was like the "ah-ha" moment I had when I finally figured out a particularly pressing problem I had in my Accounting course. It drove me crazy, I looked for answers for so long and when I finally found a website that explained it simply, it was that moment when things finally clicked. Maybe my Higher Power is my instinct that has been there all along, the one I have ignored many times as I returned time and time again to EXABF and his promises of recovery.

I still think to myself why this time (almost three months ago) I ended things with EXABF after all of the other times I believed his promises, in spite of my instinct telling me to beware. I still can't explain it other than a concept of the 3 A's - I had the awareness, had taken the action in the past but had not got a handle on the Acceptance part - to me, that was a key to my instinct kicking in, that the acceptance of the fact that his sobriety is not a priority for him and in doing so, our life together falls on the same plane.

This acceptance has been hard for me to deal with but after being in touch with EXABF and trying to sort things out, things have not changed nor will they. In talking to him, my instincts kicked in like never before, telling me that this is the way things will be and that we have reached the fork in the road. he wants the status quo, I don't and the more I moved on, the more right it felt.

I'm back at school, getting a certificate so I can press ahead to work in the Accounting field. That's step one, while I do on-line courses for a CA designation. It's hard, a lot of work, but rewarding. It has kept me focused on me, on my path and has brought me new friendships and a chance to be out in the real world, dealing with things that I had put aside being on the emotional roller coaster I had been on for the past three years. It's brought me out of my shell, given me a new confidence that had long been buried and given me one thing I had been lacking for a long time - hope.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:11 PM
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I also feel conflicted with this concept. I am pretty independent and goal oriented so I feel like I need to take action. Giving up my will seems like...giving up. And it is difficult to do when you have been a caretakers (wife, mom, teacher) all your life. But I think that MY will usually has to do with changing someone else, not taking care of me. My HP will makes me take a step back and let others around me focus on their own lives on their own time. And I do feel like my HP is taking good care of me so I am developing that trust that I don't always have to have a plan or take action. Sometimes just the right thing comes my way when I need it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:23 PM
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Regarding the gut feeling...I like to think that it is God/HP whispering to me.
.++
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:34 PM
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I took the dictionary out and defined 'will'.
Both webster ... and Oxford.

*I* tend to go with Oxford definitions
Webster can be a bit dogmatic for my taste.

Then I looked up 'willful'.

Try it.

You're going to be surprised
at what most people think 'will' is -
when they're in fact
being 'willful'.

It's amazing.

THEN _
I hand wrote the definition
actually the one I liked 'best'
and put it on the fridge.

When I put a word on the fridge
I tend to begin to 'see' the word in action
in the world around me.
I call it 'percolating' on the word
because it's not really a 'meditation'.

Anyway - amazing things happened.

And it gave me a deeper understanding of the word.

An understanding I could relate to
and be comfortable with while within this world.
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