mamaweasel

I keep reading posts from many well-intentioned, loving, supportive partners going to joint counseling. I haven't seen the following mentioned; if I missed something, please excuse me. But if this is something that is not talked about a lot, I must submit a warning. This unasked for advice is partly my personal opinion and partly not. So. . .

Don't do it.

Don't go to joint counseling. If you want, go to your own counselor privately, and the A to his/her own privately, just not together. Of course, only you can judge your own situation, but consider the following:

My own counselor told me this. The people at the domestic violence center told me this. A book I read on alcoholism said this. And a book on domestic violence/abuse says the same thing.

When the problem in a relationship is alcoholism and/or abuse, that is the 100% the responsibility of the person engaging in it. Now, we all know this. It's not our fault or blame or responsibility if they drink or abuse us. "Marriage counseling" is not what is called for in this situation. Marriage counseling is an entirely different thing from alcohol and abuse counseling. If we go to joint counseling, the A takes it as an acknowledgment that we are in some measure responsible for their behavior, and they can take this opportunity to attack us for our "wrongs" which contribute to their behavior and further avoid responsibility themselves.

Also, if we coerce them to go, it's likely to make matters worse. It did, indeed in my case. When we went together, it just stirred up ugly things and we always left feeling worse than when went in. He only went for the sake of appearance, to appear to be willing , but he never actually did the work. He was not willing to cooperate, negotiate, or even really hear me or acknowlege that there was problem and certainly not any problem he was reponsible for. When we got home, he would be in either a deep funk or a rage and of course, needed a drink. After a year, things were no better, not even stabilized, but definitely worse.

Then, when we are all sincere and open and honest, they can use what we say at the sessions against us later. They may feel no obligation to remain confidential and even tell other people what you say. They can grossly distort what you say and turn it against you.

If you do go for joint counseling, find one who specializes in alcoholism and/or abuse. Otherwise, typical counseling can consist of "feel good" therapy, in which each party is validated and encouraged to think positively about themselves, which then reinforces their alcoholic and/or abusive behavior. If you do go together, be careful what you reveal, and certainly, you should at least insist on occasionally meeting with the counselor individually.

Just something to think about.

osier59

AMEN Mama

Apparently we signed up for the same cruise. I didnt see that part on the intinerary either.

Mine did all of those things, especially taking things that were said in counseling and using and twisting in a fit of rage.The good news was that we also saw the counselor separately. She ultimately was the one who helped me get out of that horribly abusive and unhealthy environment and BACK into Al Anon!

Hugs
O59

Sandman

Glad to see a thread on this. Been wondering about this lately.

I've felt that my A's behaviour was so different between relapse and recovery that I really did not want to go through all the effort just to forge an alliance with her unless she was in recovery. Why do I want to negotiate with THAT set of behaviors?

I've also had my openness (which does not come easily) turned right back around on me mockingly or worse.

So, my position has been that I'll do anything counseling-wise if she is in a recovering state. That person I can work with and is worth all the work.

Perhaps a narrow view, but that's my .02 It will be interesting to see what others think

Summer

Counseling has never really helped me much. I've been to a few different ones and haven't found the "right" one I guess. I always end up going back to alanon because that's where I seem to fit the best. Nothing against counseling but I think finding the right one can be hard sometimes.
Summer

Judi

Mama, I agree with you 100%. How can 2 sick people get better doing it together? I think each person needs their own separate program to recover, then as they progress everything will fall into place. How can you lose with God NOW in control instead of 2 sick-os?? Lol
Judi

ajh60

Mama,

And everyone else, I am writing about alcoholism, not abuse. You say it is 100% the responsibility of the alcoholic. I am confused. If alcoholism is a "disease" isnt that like saying Cancer is 100% the responsibility of its victim.

I agree that going to anyone for help is silly when someone is still drinking. They have to want to be there and drinking idicates they have not made the decision. (not a relapse but continued) I think that as someone said, that to go when they are in a program works best.

I also have to agree when you say "its not our fault they are drinking". On the surface it is true. However if one ignores the behavior in hopes that it will go away we are at least enabling. I understand that no one will quit unless they want to but I do think that as spouses, BF, or GF, we do have an obligation to say hey "perhaps there is a drinking issue here". I am a new member to this board but I have found what appears to be a lot of people who will still have problems after the drinking has stopped.

Joint sessions may not work for you or me. However, they also may work for a lot of people. Perhaps the advice should be that if they are not working it is ok to get seperate help. Help is whatever will work. Alot of people are on this board and are new . I believe that the message should be that there are several things that work. The trick is to find them. My spouse drinks and it has not been easy and has hurt the family. Saying that I also realize she would fall in front of a mack truck to protect that very family she has hurt. It is far to complex a problem to say it is purely and soley thier fault. It is thier issue to deal with, But do we need to assign blame. I wont do it. It stinks, it is hell it is whatever you want to call it. I do hope there is light at the end of the tunnel and If I have to go to a counselor in front of everyone at an NFL game I will if that will help HER.
There should be no right or wrong do what works.

Sandman

ajh60,

Much food for thought. As for me I don't think I was placing blame. I was just addresing the question - about the husband.

I agree that there is an element of responsibility to speak-up and be honest. I also think that there is a time when its time to work on ourselves. In my case, I have intervened her into help, nursed her through detox (against my better judgment but when the choices are that or nothing, I'll take that chance), watched her detox in the hospital - anemia because her monthly would not stop because of damage to the liver, mental hospital (for threats of suicide). Again, I have never assigned blame. As you pointed out that would be as silly as blaming someone for having cancer.

But, there is assignment for responsibility. To continue your analogy, my taking chemotherapy will not help a cancer patient that I love. The cancer patient is responsible for talking treatment. Now, it is my responsibility to seek treatment for what is wrong with me. For my benefit and to be better able to support.

Finally, what a great point - whatever works - the trick is finding it. That, I think, sums-up the conundrum perfectly. I think we all know what really needs to be done - but how to get there? Is there a more complex riddle?

ajh60

Sandman,

I agree. I guess my point is that I do not think we should flatly rule out anything. My wife is in rehab. I honestly dont know how it will play out, but I am WILLING to try anything. I think for anyone to say "dont do this" is nuts. What has not worked for you just may work out for me.

If we could figure out what works wie would make millions.......

Sandman

ajh60,

I agree. Rule nothing out - except that which is destructive.

Best of luck with your wife's rehab. You and she will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Rose56

A very interesting thread. I have found in the past that when I am in counseling and my hubby knows it, that he will throw that up in my face in an argument. I know it is because he doesn't trust counselors and is afraid that I trust them more than I trust him. The important point here is that I have learned that I can be in an intimate relationship with someone and NOT share all of my thoughts, fears, and issues with that person. This is an important boundary for me.

I am not sure couples counseling works even when there is no alcoholism involved. Most people I know that have tried that have separated.

mamaweasel

"If alcoholism is a "disease" isnt that like saying Cancer is 100% the responsibility of its victim. " -- If my husband has cancer, they will put him in the hospital, give him radiation, etc.; they won't put me in the hospital, too. Also, it is his responsibility to actually go to the hospital, and some people refuse to do that, too. I was trying to say that his drinking--or not--is his responsibility and that me going to counseling is not going to change what he does. He is not be 100% responsible for our marital problems, but he is 100% responsible for his drinking.

I only wanted point out the potential dangers of joint, traditional marriage counseling, which I hadn't seen mentioned. But I though I also that, of course, each person would make the decision themself. Maybe I didn't present myself position clearly, but what I was trying to get across came from a lot of personal experience and other research, none of which I believe is "nuts."

ajh60

I am not saying anything other than what works for some may not work for all., and vice e versa. Hey im a newbie to this board Who knows, maybe Ill get a whole lot smarter sometime.........al