lillamy

I think, largely, once we get to that point -- we don't need the help as badly and we're out DOING instead of talking about it.

KittyP

Or maybe most people do not feel they are with an "A" but feel they are with their husband/wife/lover. The person who they fell in love with. The person who gradually but suddenly became someone else, someone they don't (always) recognise. I doubt one single person came into their relationship thinking, "ooh I know, I'll get involved with a complete jerk who will be horrible to me until I feel compelled to share my woe over and over while keeping on letting him treat me like a pile of poo."

They fell in love with someone who seemed wonderful and over time that person became a nasty addict. They stay because a) the person they love is clearly in distress and they want to help them, and b) they desperately want him/her to get better so they can go back to how things were/how they think things could be.

That may or may not be possible for each particular person. Some (like me) will get what they wanted out of staying, others (like you) will change their goals and move on and sadly others will never give up but never get what they want either. And along the way each and every person, at each and every stage should feel free to share their feelings without being attacked for it, they have their own journey and deserve support on it, because no matter what you choose, or what the outcome, it's a damn rough ride.

m1k3

I love the irony of this thread. Whining about whining. LOL!

((((hugs)))) to all who posted here. We are the walking wounded.

Take what you want, leave the rest.

passionfruit

Actually, when I came here I had just left my AH. I moved completely out of the house into my own place taking all my things with me.

I NEVER went back to live with him.

I spent the next 2.5 months giving him a behavior modification opportunity. I reinforced the positive behavior with staying and spending time with him. I responded to the negative by leaving everytime he was ugly.

I set my boundaries and stuck to them, even if when I didn't want to.

I felt that I had been more than fair by giving him those couple of months to attempt real change. He chose not to and I went no contact for the next 2.5

I did not break that until yesterday when I spoke to him about filing for divorce.

So I am not sure how you figure I kept going back and getting stabbed.

That simply was not the case.

I made a plan of action and saw it through.

.As far as knowing I was abused. That was not the case. I fought back tooth and nail only to lose those battles big time. Those incidents were all because I was not going to take the way he treated me. When he was out of line. I always called him on it.

He didn't take too kindly to that.

I do not see myself as a victim, much less abused.

why did I stay 2 years? I did everything within my power to make that marriage work. I succombed when I should have not. I tolerated more from him than I had from any man ever.

I have only been married 2x in my life.

once for 15 years. Then spent 12 years single. Turned down numerous men and many marriage proposals in that time. I never intended to marry 2x. I had vowed to God at a very young age to never marry twice, much less divorce 2x. so I had to do everything i could to make it work. I gave it my best shot. That was all I could do. When it became too much. I left. God will forgive me.
.Anyway the point is I made my choice and did not cry about it. period.

passionfruit

I attend alanon once a week at least and have for the last 5 months or so.

We never sit around talking about what our A's did to us today.
.

skippernlilg

That's a beautiful thing!

I actively attempt to move the A's obnoxious behavior out of my thoughts and words every single day. I think words do have power, so it is an excellent practice to use those words in a more positive way.

It is nice, however, to have an outlet like here or in an Al-anon meeting where I can freely express my feelings if there is something bothering me. Sometimes it is the ABF who bothers me, so I like it that I can talk about that if I need to.

If I don't talk about it from time to time, I find myself 'stuffing' my feelings, and that's what got me to the sick point I've been.

But you're right, I'm designing my life to the level that ABF and his behavior is not a factor in any of my days.

passionfruit

guess you missed this post huh?

.
I came here because I made the decision to change. plain and simple. i needed tools to do so and recognized that as such.

People gave me suggested books and websites and lots of other tools which I promptly devoured, digested, and put into action.

When I felt weak, I came on here and said so. people responded. When i was struggling with a concept or struggling with a change I needed to make or understand, I came on here and said so. People gave me tools to help myself. I USED THEM.

I stay because I have much to learn and the tools hidden within the brains behind the screens have barely been tapped.

This is a utopian wellspring of self help knowledge that I can't drink from if I am not here.

I have clearly moved forward and intend to go as far as the eye can see and beyond.

LaPinturaBella

I like that Skipperling...you are "designing" your life.

24Years

I haven't analyzed any recent whine posts but I do think that the average "whine" is more about the choices we did not make; the things we cannot control that can be very painful. As you choose to give it your all, so many others do the same. It is not easy to see the forest through the trees when the whole picture is not understood. This site, al-anon, counselors and the like help to bring the whole picture into focus. I remember whining many, many years ago. I was looking for answers that I wish I found then (e.g. dry drunk behaviors that were learned...and not from being alcoholic on both of our parts)! My husband was a social drinker that turned alcoholic after many, many years. We all come from a huge variety of circumstances.

passionfruit

Have you ever heard of tough love? It was popular in the 80's me thinks. parents set clear boundaries for their kids. They locked the doors at a specified time that had been made clear to the kid....and other boundaries as well...
Then when the kid came home he was locked out. The parent had a location of a friend, neighbor or relative where the child could go. when the boundary was respected, they were allowed back home.


The truth is these particular kids have told me that their alcoholic mother packed up and moved a couple towns over and left them in a place alone.

They both are in secondary technical education and are going to school while still bouncing from house to house.

I don't know if the alcoholic mother bit is true, but i know for a fact they are in school and have expressed determination to see it through. They make it every day no matter where they have slept the night before and more often than not walk to school.

They clearly are trying to help themselves. I sure as hell dont see givng them food, shower, and an occasional bed as enabling. these kids are immature brats at worst. punks at best. If they were thugs, you might have a point.

Since they are helping themselves, while being punk kids. I fail to see what behavior I am enabling. these kids will outgrow this in time. They eventually will get tired of this life.

The sticking with school at all costs thing is clearly an indicator of that.

i think you are confused on the issue.

skippernlilg

[QUOTE=passionfruit;2993400]
When I felt weak, I came on here and said so. people responded. When i was struggling with a concept or struggling with a change I needed to make or understand, I came on here and said so. People gave me tools to help myself. I USED THEM.

QUOTE]

I like that Passionfruit. My motto in life is "Smart people utilize their resources."

Seems to me, you're pretty smart!

Nina Kay

I don't understand why you are putting down & picking on people who are weak & struggling just because you are strong & seem to have it all together. I'm happy for you, but can't you just have enough compassion or kindness not to judge & kick people who are down? Everybody can't be as strong or matter-of-fact as you. Maybe they want to, but just can't seem to find the strength that they need? Why do you want to make them feel bad about themselves on top of everything else they are dealing with? I'm not meaning to offend you but you don't seem to mind offending anyone else. Where's your compassion?

kittykitty

I clicked on this thread to see if Passionfruit was in a better mood yet. Won't be making that mistake again.

Has it ever occurred to anyone participating in this thread that a newcomer might read it, and decide not to share their story or ask for help in fear of being perceived as weak, illogical, stupid, or a 'crybaby'?

Just a thought. I know if I was new here, clicked on this thread, and read some of the things being said here, I would never have opened up and asked for help.

Passionfruit, you are obviously better, smarter, and stronger than others. You figured things out, stuck to your guns, and made the changes you had to in order to give yourself a better life. Just because others have more trouble than you did, doesn't make them any less of human beings. Just different. Degrading others for not being able to do what you did is wrong.

m1k3

OK, PF, recovery, like enlightenment only comes when the recipient is ready. Before I came here I didn't even know recovery was possible. Some will come here and read and post for years before they 'get it'. That is their path, yours was different.

To everyone responding you have to remember just because someone is strong in their recovery doesn't mean what they are saying is useful for you. PF is walking her own path and presenting her own experience.

As I have seen posted here many times.

Take what you want, leave the rest.

forgotten1

kittykitty--i have the same concern... mainly because i started holding myself back from posting---so who knows how a newcomer would feel.

i always thought that when you were in a position of power, the virtuous thing to do was to be responsible... and certainly not put others down. it's like that whole scenario where you want to get "in" some exclusive place and so does everyone else--who you've been empathizing with, but when you finally get in... you shut the door behind you, laughing at everyone you left behind.

m1k3

This is not a good forum for basing your posting on the opinions of others. It is a good place to feel free to vent without worry. Remember, they won't always get your posts and you won't always get theirs, especially when the other person is venting.

It is possible that she is projecting something she is dealing with on to other peoples posts.

"Take what you want and leave the rest" is more than a saying.

HeyImme

So, while I totally get the whole "do something or quit whining" thing in all aspects of life, I also like to embrace the whole "people are where they are, and I am not the judge of that" thing. Over time, I have begun to view these sorts of posts as an opportunity to practice my "non-Codie" skills. Not sure I'm doing a great job of that right now, because here I am responding But the point is, I don't have to take this post personally, and in fact, shouldn't...it is not about me...it is about the original poster. I can look at it and think, "wow, she's having a rotten day!". Or something's up with her recovery that needs addressing and I wish her well". But in no way is it about me...her declaring that her recovery process is somehow superior does not make it so...it is her opinion, and we all have them. Sometimes it can be hard not to accept things others say as truth, especially if it's being said with great confidence or authority, but it has served me well to sit with the statement for a bit and evaluate it before taking it on as a truth that requires action on my part. I hope this makes sense and also want to say that this is not intended as a slam against the original poster, but is just me sharing a mode of thinking that has helped me over time...

forgotten1

my thoughts on "tough love" is that i go to my long-time friends for that... the friends that haven't lived in the world we've all lived in--the ones with an outside perspective. with them, i expect a non-judgmental judgment precisely because they are giving me objective opinions.

i come to SR for not tough love but for compassion and understanding... for the subjective reality that we all shared... because after realizing that i cant just go to friends or family (since i dont know anyone that has dealth with alcoholism), i could come here among people that wouldnt judge my thought process and could understand the long journey it takes to deal with this particular kind of pain

m1k3

I don't look at what other people post here as judgmental. Some are offering sympathy and support, others are offering experience and others strength or hope. Some are just venting.

When I read something here I look for how it helps my recovery. Sometimes it helps by pointing out that there is more than one way to do it. Sometimes it helps by giving me the opportunity to share. Sometimes it helps by letting me know that I am not alone in this. Sometimes it just doesn't help. When it doesn't help me I move on to another post.

Not all the posts are going to be useful, helpful or even interesting to you.

As someone said earlier think about this as an exercise in detachment.

Kindeyes

I decided to stop at the concession stand. lol

gentle hugs everyone
ke