Tell me we can do this, people!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Tell me we can do this, people!
I'm having one of those days.
You know, one of those days when I'm wishing AXH would just drop dead because it would make things so much easier for everyone.
I'm anxious and agitated and glaring up at the heavens where I think my HP resides and sort of going "um, you really ARE on your own time schedule here, aren't you???"
So your topic today, friends, Romans, is: Sharing custody with an active A: How you do it without becoming a wreck of epic proportions.Go!
You know, one of those days when I'm wishing AXH would just drop dead because it would make things so much easier for everyone.
I'm anxious and agitated and glaring up at the heavens where I think my HP resides and sort of going "um, you really ARE on your own time schedule here, aren't you???"
So your topic today, friends, Romans, is: Sharing custody with an active A: How you do it without becoming a wreck of epic proportions.Go!
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I didn't really have that problem
because their father never wanted them.
I remember nights the oldest son
would be standing by the window
with his little GI Joe backpack packed
at ten pm thinking his daddy was coming.
I wanted to murder him for hurting my boy.
There's not an easy way.
I wish I'd have had SR back then.
At least there'd have been someone to talk to.
because their father never wanted them.
I remember nights the oldest son
would be standing by the window
with his little GI Joe backpack packed
at ten pm thinking his daddy was coming.
I wanted to murder him for hurting my boy.
There's not an easy way.
I wish I'd have had SR back then.
At least there'd have been someone to talk to.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Barb -- that's a heartbreaking image.
I think mine is, as well: the children who every time they see their father, think "this time it will be different" and each time, they call me (or text me) in tears, hiding in the bathroom, because if he sees them cry, he yells at them more, saying "Mom, please, I can't be here anymore, he just yells."
He's outlawyering me in order to have the right to yell and belittle his children (who are too young for their opinions to count in court). Basically, he's bought himself a couple of victims.
I know it will work out. I know that right now, my money is better spent on therapy than lawyers. But it breaks my heart and makes me borderline homicidal that he would fight for the children so hard, only to be emotionally abusive to them when he has them.
And I know it's a disease.
And I wish he would have taken me up on my offer -- to let me have full custody while he works on his recovery, and to look at it again in a year or 18 months when he's further down the road and in better balance and has more sobriety under his belt.
But no dice
I think mine is, as well: the children who every time they see their father, think "this time it will be different" and each time, they call me (or text me) in tears, hiding in the bathroom, because if he sees them cry, he yells at them more, saying "Mom, please, I can't be here anymore, he just yells."
He's outlawyering me in order to have the right to yell and belittle his children (who are too young for their opinions to count in court). Basically, he's bought himself a couple of victims.
I know it will work out. I know that right now, my money is better spent on therapy than lawyers. But it breaks my heart and makes me borderline homicidal that he would fight for the children so hard, only to be emotionally abusive to them when he has them.
And I know it's a disease.
And I wish he would have taken me up on my offer -- to let me have full custody while he works on his recovery, and to look at it again in a year or 18 months when he's further down the road and in better balance and has more sobriety under his belt.
But no dice
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
lillamy, yup, that's the question... i sure don't have an answer... i've dragged my feet for years about ending my marriage bc of the fact that i don't want to deal w the custody battle. i don't want to share time with my kids when i know that when they are with him they are all but ignored (bc that's what he did when we were still together under the same roof).
and it's unfortunate that offers like yours, let you have sole custody while he works on recovery and re-visit it down the road are just scoffed at by your AH. doing what is best for the kids clearly is not in the mind of your AH or mine.
i do feel the need to say, though that while alcoholism is a disease, child abuse is not. your AH can't hide behind the alcoholism label to excuse how he is treating his kids... making kids cry and being intentionally malicious toward them is not a disease. it's abuse. the bancroft 'why does he do that?' book really opened my eyes to the excuses i made for AH's behavior for a long time and how blaming all his abuse on the disease was really just a lie to myself.
and it's unfortunate that offers like yours, let you have sole custody while he works on recovery and re-visit it down the road are just scoffed at by your AH. doing what is best for the kids clearly is not in the mind of your AH or mine.
i do feel the need to say, though that while alcoholism is a disease, child abuse is not. your AH can't hide behind the alcoholism label to excuse how he is treating his kids... making kids cry and being intentionally malicious toward them is not a disease. it's abuse. the bancroft 'why does he do that?' book really opened my eyes to the excuses i made for AH's behavior for a long time and how blaming all his abuse on the disease was really just a lie to myself.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I hope you can find a therapist for your children.
When they become comfortable with said therapist they will open up and therapist can testify at any time in court to get any visitation and/or custody changed regarding what is 'safe' for the children.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
When they become comfortable with said therapist they will open up and therapist can testify at any time in court to get any visitation and/or custody changed regarding what is 'safe' for the children.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Hugs, Lillamy. I will be eagerly sitting on the edge of my chair for any and all words of hope from all who post. Because sometimes, like right now, I truly do not think I can do this. Yes, I know me being in DS's life is what he needs, that I need to be there to balance his life, but sometimes I feel I just can't put up with the continued cr-p from XAH.
Sometimes the thought that I have to suck it up and deal with continued emotional and verbal abuse from XAH or his visitation supervisors on a weekly basis is nearly too much even weighed against DS. The court, life, HP, whatever is asking far too much of me. Feelings of panic set in and I just want to run, RUN, RUN. Drop everything, including DS, lovely car, great job, contact with my family, and take off. (Yes, I know how absolutely horrid it is to think about just handing DS over to his abusive father.)
So any way. How do I do it? Personally, I panic, I freak out, I worry.... I'm trying to find constructive stuff to do, but I truly have no clue. I literally sometimes just sit and breathe. In, out, 1, 2, 3, 4.... 1,000... DS... sunlight through the window, breathe, silly cat dropping his ball at my feet to play fetch, breathe, promise to wait until tomorrow to throw stuff in a suitcase, breathe.... promise to make no decisions greater than lunch while my heart threatens to jump out of my chest... breathe....
Sometimes the thought that I have to suck it up and deal with continued emotional and verbal abuse from XAH or his visitation supervisors on a weekly basis is nearly too much even weighed against DS. The court, life, HP, whatever is asking far too much of me. Feelings of panic set in and I just want to run, RUN, RUN. Drop everything, including DS, lovely car, great job, contact with my family, and take off. (Yes, I know how absolutely horrid it is to think about just handing DS over to his abusive father.)
So any way. How do I do it? Personally, I panic, I freak out, I worry.... I'm trying to find constructive stuff to do, but I truly have no clue. I literally sometimes just sit and breathe. In, out, 1, 2, 3, 4.... 1,000... DS... sunlight through the window, breathe, silly cat dropping his ball at my feet to play fetch, breathe, promise to wait until tomorrow to throw stuff in a suitcase, breathe.... promise to make no decisions greater than lunch while my heart threatens to jump out of my chest... breathe....
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I did not think I could do it the entire time I was doing it.
That kind of thinking also took away from time
that I could have been enjoying my kids
instead I was forced to work three jobs
and worry on all my off time.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
You can pick up what you need from us
I give mine freely -= if it'll help someone
avoid the mistakes I made.
I made enough of them for THREE people...
That kind of thinking also took away from time
that I could have been enjoying my kids
instead I was forced to work three jobs
and worry on all my off time.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
You can pick up what you need from us
I give mine freely -= if it'll help someone
avoid the mistakes I made.
I made enough of them for THREE people...
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3
im currently working on this as well. he was sober for about 15 months. i wouldnt trade the last 6 months for anything. he was the father my kids deserved. they were/are so happy to see him regularly. he was putting them first (even above his side jobs). it was heaven. i forgot that it can all come to an end so quickly.
right now im trying to take it day by day. visit by visit. its none of my business what he does when our kids are not with him but it is when they are with him. at this moment he is saying he does not drink when he has them (generally about 36ish hours on the weekend).
i knew the personality change would come roaring back, i just hoped i would have more time before it did. at least when he was actively drinking and by himself he didnt have other people's opinions in his ear. now he has the addition of a girl friend who quite frankly has no business adding her two cents. she and her family all drink.
but again i really am trying to take this day by day and trying to keep reminding myself of that when i start worrying about the future.
right now im trying to take it day by day. visit by visit. its none of my business what he does when our kids are not with him but it is when they are with him. at this moment he is saying he does not drink when he has them (generally about 36ish hours on the weekend).
i knew the personality change would come roaring back, i just hoped i would have more time before it did. at least when he was actively drinking and by himself he didnt have other people's opinions in his ear. now he has the addition of a girl friend who quite frankly has no business adding her two cents. she and her family all drink.
but again i really am trying to take this day by day and trying to keep reminding myself of that when i start worrying about the future.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,017
Originally Posted by lillamy 
I'm having one of those days.
You know, one of those days when I'm wishing AXH would just drop dead because it would make things so much easier for everyone.
You know, one of those days when I'm wishing AXH would just drop dead because it would make things so much easier for everyone.
You have the grief, the guilt, the whole job to do on your own, and the 'affairs' to sort out, 2 and a half years on we still aren't finished sorting things out!
The reason it was all so dificult is because I didn't have the balls to sort things before he died. I could have had all the legal stuff tied up and sorted, but I was holding back for him to get better. It never happened.
If I had that time again I would sort everything just in case, and I'd be hard with it!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
1) I said the serenity prayer 100 times a day. I'd pick apart my concern of the moment and work it into the serenity prayer to help guide me.
With a little more recovery and more time and distance away from xah I can see that I should have done more to protect them from him. My xah is king of emotional manipulation and abuse, and passive aggressive punishments, but he's pretty worthless at actually fighting for something. It wouldn't have been that hard. He plans to move back to the area in 6mos or so. If he does, and if he starts drinking again, I'll probably burn SR up with requests for guidance and support in doing the right thing.
2) I literally did not talk to him. We emailed. I asked him for NOTHING. Not one single thing. I eventually learned, after a few hard lessons, to quit contacting him at all. I sent him a copy of the court ordered visitation schedule all mapped out for a year and left it at that. If he wanted to see them, he had to contact me to make the arrangements. If I had somewhere to be on 'his weekend' I would email him and say I was leaving the house at 11am (which was the morning after he was suppose to pick them up) and if he wasn't there, the kids would be coming with me. I tried once to handle that like a normal person and it was a 12 hour drama fest. Hard lesson but it worked the first time
This old dog learns faster and faster!
The crappy emotionally abuse, manipulative, and controlling emails (where was i going, with whom, what kind of terrible behavior was I exposing the kids to, awful mother, quitter, terrible wife, home wrecker, ruining my children, b%&$ch blah blah blah) were all ignored. I thought the emails would never stop but they eventually did. As time went on they no longer hurt like they once did either. SR helped me a lot with that.
I did (and still do) send him copies of things and updates of things that are specified in the visitation orders.
I'm so sorry for you and your children. This is such a painful time. Your xah is a horrid man for what he is doing. Your kids are so lucky to have you. You can help them navigate their emotions, get them a counselor, and they will learn from you by watching how you handle it too.
I don't think my xah behaves like that with our kids. He neglects them and he says (or used to say - don't think he does anymore) bad things about me and how I don't care about him or the boys, how I left him to starve, how he can't see them because I won't buy them food (for at his house), how I don't care about the family etc. etc.
Life has been better since he moved - so I hope he stays gone. Wishing all crazy xah's would just move away!
With a little more recovery and more time and distance away from xah I can see that I should have done more to protect them from him. My xah is king of emotional manipulation and abuse, and passive aggressive punishments, but he's pretty worthless at actually fighting for something. It wouldn't have been that hard. He plans to move back to the area in 6mos or so. If he does, and if he starts drinking again, I'll probably burn SR up with requests for guidance and support in doing the right thing.
2) I literally did not talk to him. We emailed. I asked him for NOTHING. Not one single thing. I eventually learned, after a few hard lessons, to quit contacting him at all. I sent him a copy of the court ordered visitation schedule all mapped out for a year and left it at that. If he wanted to see them, he had to contact me to make the arrangements. If I had somewhere to be on 'his weekend' I would email him and say I was leaving the house at 11am (which was the morning after he was suppose to pick them up) and if he wasn't there, the kids would be coming with me. I tried once to handle that like a normal person and it was a 12 hour drama fest. Hard lesson but it worked the first time
This old dog learns faster and faster! The crappy emotionally abuse, manipulative, and controlling emails (where was i going, with whom, what kind of terrible behavior was I exposing the kids to, awful mother, quitter, terrible wife, home wrecker, ruining my children, b%&$ch blah blah blah) were all ignored. I thought the emails would never stop but they eventually did. As time went on they no longer hurt like they once did either. SR helped me a lot with that.
I did (and still do) send him copies of things and updates of things that are specified in the visitation orders.
I'm so sorry for you and your children. This is such a painful time. Your xah is a horrid man for what he is doing. Your kids are so lucky to have you. You can help them navigate their emotions, get them a counselor, and they will learn from you by watching how you handle it too.
I don't think my xah behaves like that with our kids. He neglects them and he says (or used to say - don't think he does anymore) bad things about me and how I don't care about him or the boys, how I left him to starve, how he can't see them because I won't buy them food (for at his house), how I don't care about the family etc. etc.
Life has been better since he moved - so I hope he stays gone. Wishing all crazy xah's would just move away!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by theuncertainty
Hugs, Lillamy. I will be eagerly sitting on the edge of my chair for any and all words of hope from all who post. Because sometimes, like right now, I truly do not think I can do this. Yes, I know me being in DS's life is what he needs, that I need to be there to balance his life, but sometimes I feel I just can't put up with the continued cr-p from XAH.
Sometimes the thought that I have to suck it up and deal with continued emotional and verbal abuse from XAH or his visitation supervisors on a weekly basis is nearly too much even weighed against DS. The court, life, HP, whatever is asking far too much of me. Feelings of panic set in and I just want to run, RUN, RUN. Drop everything, including DS, lovely car, great job, contact with my family, and take off. (Yes, I know how absolutely horrid it is to think about just handing DS over to his abusive father.)
So any way. How do I do it? Personally, I panic, I freak out, I worry.... I'm trying to find constructive stuff to do, but I truly have no clue. I literally sometimes just sit and breathe. In, out, 1, 2, 3, 4.... 1,000... DS... sunlight through the window, breathe, silly cat dropping his ball at my feet to play fetch, breathe, promise to wait until tomorrow to throw stuff in a suitcase, breathe.... promise to make no decisions greater than lunch while my heart threatens to jump out of my chest... breathe....
Sometimes the thought that I have to suck it up and deal with continued emotional and verbal abuse from XAH or his visitation supervisors on a weekly basis is nearly too much even weighed against DS. The court, life, HP, whatever is asking far too much of me. Feelings of panic set in and I just want to run, RUN, RUN. Drop everything, including DS, lovely car, great job, contact with my family, and take off. (Yes, I know how absolutely horrid it is to think about just handing DS over to his abusive father.)
So any way. How do I do it? Personally, I panic, I freak out, I worry.... I'm trying to find constructive stuff to do, but I truly have no clue. I literally sometimes just sit and breathe. In, out, 1, 2, 3, 4.... 1,000... DS... sunlight through the window, breathe, silly cat dropping his ball at my feet to play fetch, breathe, promise to wait until tomorrow to throw stuff in a suitcase, breathe.... promise to make no decisions greater than lunch while my heart threatens to jump out of my chest... breathe....
To the original poster:
I finally got to the point where XAH can only contact me by email or text. Even then, I have learned (slowly and very painfully) not to respond to either for AT LEAST 24-48 hours: unless it absolutely has something to do with a visit happening in 12 hours.
I also informed him that our kids use my phone and thus, sending me nasty texts...they read that. That cut down on quite a bit of the drama/crap messages. He's not allowed to speak to me alone at drop off and pick up. Just by email and text.
Then when I do respond, no matter what he's written I start with "It is best for the kids if we....." "This change doesn't work for the child...." Not one personal thing in the email/text. Just cold. Pretend a judge is reading every single thing you write/say and this judge can decide to take your kids away and give them to AXH (or worse AXH's mom LOL!). I don't respond to anything he says bad about me. That's all personal projections of his issues and I'm no longer his wife so I don't need to address them. Besides, I would never be able to convince him he's wrong anyways. Alcoholics are so delusional why waste my energy.
And you better darn well bet I save all those emails and texts for if he ever tries to get custody changes.
It takes practice. Lots of practice. Lots of walking away from the phone/computer, lots of lost sleep wanting to argue back about that I am a good parent, etc. But not going there makes it better. Because when my kids grow up, they will know who took the high road. They will see it for themselves.
And ya', it sucks. I think there should be a special parents day for parents who's ex' are users. We deserve a parade.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
i do feel the need to say, though that while alcoholism is a disease, child abuse is not
I just wish that child abuse -- the kind without visible bruises -- could be proven in court.
And that my kids didn't behave like three-year-olds when I say the word "Therapist"... (they refuse.)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by lillamy
Absolutely true. And honestly? I really just threw that thing about disease in there to appear to be compassionate. In reality, I think he's an utter a## and would be with or without alcohol.
I just wish that child abuse -- the kind without visible bruises -- could be proven in court.
And that my kids didn't behave like three-year-olds when I say the word "Therapist"... (they refuse.)
I just wish that child abuse -- the kind without visible bruises -- could be proven in court.
And that my kids didn't behave like three-year-olds when I say the word "Therapist"... (they refuse.)I get really annoyed (not with you!) but with AH and other non R A's who chalk up every behavior to the disease and think that excuses their abuse.
Plenty of A's aren't abusive (to anyone but themselves that is). Abuse and alcoholism don't go hand in hand (though it seems with many of our SO's that is the case).
As for the kind of child abuse that you can prove in court-- god do I hear you on that. AH does nothing that I can prove insofar as how he screws with the girls heads (and mine). He's very bright and charming and charismatic and is the most dangerous type of abuser (IMHO) bc of that.
I hope that you and your kids will be able to stay safe and protected from his abuse. Is there any way to petition the court to listen to your kids input even though technically they are too young as you said?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I love LTD's quote that I have in my sig. Because that's basically it.
The only way the courts will listen to children is if you have a child advocate interview them -- this is in my state, at least: They use a panel of three (a police officer, a child development expert, and a social worker?) and if I ask for it, I get to pay for it.
Same thing with a custody investigation. If I want the courts to determine whether XAH is unfit to care for children, we get to split the cost for that.
Each of those things is approximately $10K.
And while I don't particularly want other taxpayers to foot the bill for my stupidity to marry an A, reality is, I can't afford that.
And Lucy -- I didn't mean to offend, and I'm glad you didn't take offense.
The only way the courts will listen to children is if you have a child advocate interview them -- this is in my state, at least: They use a panel of three (a police officer, a child development expert, and a social worker?) and if I ask for it, I get to pay for it.
Same thing with a custody investigation. If I want the courts to determine whether XAH is unfit to care for children, we get to split the cost for that.
Each of those things is approximately $10K.
And while I don't particularly want other taxpayers to foot the bill for my stupidity to marry an A, reality is, I can't afford that.
And Lucy -- I didn't mean to offend, and I'm glad you didn't take offense.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by banisheggshells
Can I ask, what in the world are his visitation supervisors saying to you? Because they are supposed to be there for the kids. Not to take sides, not to berate the parents. The kids. That's it. Is there something in your agreement where you get right of first refusal on a particular supervisor? Also, he shouldn't be saying "boo" to you in front of the kids, at all.
I have no say in who is a supervisor, because XAH never hit me, he 'just used the emotional style of man who knocks a woman out' (the court's words) even though he admitted in the hearing to r-ing me and the court acknowledged that admission. There is no court ordered alcohol or drug testing, because the visitation supervisors are supposed to report to the court if XAH drinks or uses, just as they're supposed to report if XAH engages in angry or abusive behavior.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Jack away!!! 
I spent the day in a botanical garden... and walking a maze and praying... and somehow, the maze looked so long and complicated when I started... and then before I knew it, I was at the center. I took that as a sign. I just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and I will get to where I'm going. Before I know it, I'll be there.
Peace again. For now.
I spent the day in a botanical garden... and walking a maze and praying... and somehow, the maze looked so long and complicated when I started... and then before I knew it, I was at the center. I took that as a sign. I just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and I will get to where I'm going. Before I know it, I'll be there.
Peace again. For now.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
The only way the courts will listen to children is if you have a child advocate interview them
A few investigations by CPS and a report by CPS to Family Court and I suspect his 'visitation' will be changed by the Court. And if you get a 'Social Worker' that does not seem to be doing their job, go to their Supervisor and if need be to the Head of the Agency in your state capitol.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
I did not think I could do it the entire time I was doing it.
lillamy, I like laurie´s idea!
My mom sent my sister and I to child/teenage therapists and we turned out good.. well at least we did not end up in jail, or anything major lol... I can clearly see now, who was there for us every.single.time and who let us down time and time again.
What helps and helped me MOST was seeing my mom peaceful, she likes color and flowers and seeing her painting her flowers was the most wonderful example I remember from those tough times after my dad asked her for a divorce.
Take care of yourself! you are a wonderful Mom. Somewhere I read that when Mom is happy everyone is happy- keep giving them a good example of self care, of what love looks like (including the love you have for yourself) and everything will be OK... that is my belief.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
