Refusing to leave
 

AH is refusing to leave. He came back 2 weeks ago and I couldn't make him leave even though the lease is in my name (I called the cops - since we are still married, they said they couldn't do anything). He is drinking as usual, not following any rules or respecting any boundaries - being very depressed/drinking/sleeping. I am meeting with the divorce lawyer tomorrow to give the retainer check and go over the forms. In the meantime I am finding it intolerable to live with him. The kids don't want him around either now, after their initial happniness at seeing him. He is either passed out drunk or tries to hug them too hard (depressed and he needs human contact) or orders them to do things for him - I am forever rescuing them.

I found another unit that we could move into in the same apartment complex - but that is available only on June 16th. Even if I move into the new unit - what do I do if he tries to come in? I called the cop who came when I tried to get AH to leave 2 weeks ago and left a message for him yesterday - he has not called back. I wanted to ask what papers would they need me to show in order to help me (lease in my name, divorce papers filed enough?) if he tries to move into the new unit with us and I called them for help? I asked my divorce lawyer - she said moving to new unit + new lease in my name + divorced papers should give me more grounds in my support but suggested that I consult an landlord/tenant issues lawyer for this.

Along with the divorce papers, my lawyer said she would include vacate house request and I typed out a summary of all that AH does that makes it intolerable for the kids and me to live with him. I really hope it works .

Sorry for the jumbled rambling but I am so frustrated and so tired. I just want him out and I want to live in peace with my kids. I informed his family but am not on counting them much for help. I don't have family around either with whom I could move in for a little while. I am even considering moving into a hotel..

Appreciate any and all thoughts.

Thanks.

Oh I feel for you, that has got to be hard wanting him gone and he refuses. I think getting an attorney to help is a really good idea. Meanwhile do your best until you can move and keep him out!

Ask your lawyer if there is anything else that can be done. I am not sure of the details, laws, etc. -- but if there is an incident, he's drunk, etc. -- then I would think this changes things and the police could take action. Again, ask the lawyer.

Once you file, can you get him to leave then? Change the locks? I don't know, but don't leave any stone unturned with your attorney. Good luck. All the best.

Thanks Alone and CXR - I will ask the lawyer again tomorrow when I meet with her.

On the legal stuff, I've just been there -- and with California courts. The divorce papers by themselves won't be enough to force him to move; what you want to do is file an OSC (Order to Show Cause) "ex parte". Your lawyer should be able to help with all of this. You want to ask for temporary possession of the family residence and (most likely) temporary custody of the children. 24 hours after the paperwork is filed and AH is given notice, there is an "emergency" hearing. You leave that same day with a decision.

As far as I know, that is the only way to force a spouse out of a shared residence unless there are threats of violence, in which case you'd be looking for a restraining order.

I went to an attorney because I wanted my xah to leave too, and he refused. Divorce wasn't even my primary goal at that time. In the state I live in, they could grant me temporary use of the marital home (and as Jayscott said - custody/child support) - and he would have to leave, escorted by the police if that is the way he wanted it. That was part of filing for a divorce. I could have stopped the divorce at any time if I wanted to but that would have gotten him out.

I hope your attorney has some answers for you tomorrow.

good advice given. changing apartments does not change anything. same problem, different address.

so sorry you're going through this.

what about moving to a youth hostel? they are quite cheap and maybe could give you a family room. use an official one YHA...they provide access to the kitchen, laundry, computer, phone, etc.

alternatively, you could also move into a shelter...but if you have a bit of money, the youth hostel would permit you your independece...

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Thanks Jay and Thumper. I will check with my lawyer tomorrow. She suggested that we apply for custody/parenting schedule along with request for vacating the house (maybe this is what she meant?) when filing for the divorce. I will specifically ask her about "Order to show cause" exparte.

Thanks Naive - I will check it out. I so value your advice - you have such good advice. Money is ok right now - I am in IT and get paid ok and I am quite prudent - I will check out the youth hostel.

I am again rethinking my decision about going ahead and filing for divorce. Maybe I should have just moved out of state (east coast) to be near my sister and stayed at her house for a little while (she offered) - so AH wouldn't try to come live with me and the kids. I just didn't want to prolong this marriage anymore (and get into legal trouble vis-a-vis taking the kids out of state) but looks like AH is going to make this very ugly.

re: divorce filing. you don't need to make that decision today. perhaps move forward with the temporary custody, temporary possession of family house, etc.

that will get him out of the house.

after some peace, you can make the other decisions.

beproactive, please get your important docs off-site...birth certificates, passports, deeds, contracts, etc., especially if you go to the hostel.

i've had marvelous times at the youth hostels. i see you are in the bay area...i've stayed in hostels around there (near san jose)...it was lovely, in a gorgeous forest. the other people staying there were very nice. i imagine it would be fun for you and the kids. you can ask for a private room for your family. cheap, clean, everything you need plus normally in gorgeous geographical spots. i've stayed in lots of hostel, but the ones in california tend to be "green" and sometimes, everyone staying there has to do a chore to contribute, to keep costs low.

i don't know where you are in the bay area, but there's a nice hostel near the beach in santa cruz....http://www.hiusa.org/hostels/usa_hos...nta_cruz/60119

perhaps a wee holiday for you and the kids is just what the doctor ordered?

the hostel in monterey, california looks nice. you could relax on the beach and work on your tan.

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i was thinking also that your human resources department might be able to assist you in some way if you explain the situation to them that you have a drunk husband who won't leave YOUR residence and you need to separate the family right now.

i would render a guess that they might possibly assist you with a week or two off, effective immediately. big IT companies normally have a corporate policy on this that you could look up in some corporate manual before you meet with your human resources department.

it benefited me to begin to speak plainly about what was going on at home to my friends and family, even if they were far away. it opened up some doors for me.

if i may ask, what's your sister's counsel?

Thanks for all the info, naive. I am a contractor, so don't have access to those kind of facilities at work. I joined a new job 6 months ago, after being with my previous employer for 7 years and I work for the client as a contractor. The kids school is 2 weeks more, so need to stick closer to home. Looked up some extended stay kind of hotels nearby (with kitchen, etc) but they are quite expensive ($500) for a week. Can afford it for now (especially for my peace and sanity and if things get bad) but woud rather save that money. Santa cruz / Monterey would be too far work/school unless I take off (but off means I don't get paid)

My sister really wants me to go and stay with her. But I feel like I just want this whole marriage done with and not worry about any potential legal issues if I move out of state and don't want to delay the divorce process for more than a year (residency requirements). I guess I am finally really ready for the divorce (after being in limbo for so long) and I can't wait for it to be done.

I met with the lawyer today - till the last minute very confused whether I want to go ahead with the filing or just up and leave out of state to my sister's. I asked the lawyer about the "order to show cause ex parte" (thanks Jay) and this is what she is filing, as I suspected. But she had not prepared it to be emergency (regular filing could take upto a month) and she said she could make it emergency after I told her how hard I and the kids are finding it living with him. If this does not work, next option is to move to another unit. I went to the sheriff's office and the lady there said If I say we are seperated and I filed for divorce and show the lease in my name - I should be good. Feel better now that I have option A and option B - hope either of those works out. Sis is coming first week of June, school should be done and I should be able to move then if it comes to that.

AH is still being bloody minded. I told him that I have the papers ready and my lawyer will be filing them, does he want to go to Rehab and get help and I might reconsider (not get back together but rethink filing now). He refused saying he doesn't believe in Rehab, he is strong and doesn't need help to quit!!! Yeah right - whatever. From then on, things went downhill and it was a crappy evening. I am finding it extremely difficult to detach - I just want him out and am feeling frustrated that I am having to put up with him. I think I need to get back to theraphy (have not been going due to lack of time) and Alanon (I know I should).

WAIT! Before you move out, I know that in New York if you move out, you're considered the one "abandoning the home", meaning you won't be able to get him to leave the apt. later on, you'll only be able to take a new apt. Try going to family court and finding out if you can petition for a restraining order. Most family courts have offices in the building run by non-profits and lawyers who provide service to low-income petitioners. Good luck!

I'm in NC but after talking to the lawyer I learned that I was not "abandoning the home" due to the amount of abuse and difficulty living with my husband. I was VERY afraid of that - but once you have legal advice then you can stay/leave according to their counsel.

I let the fear of "abandoning my home" keep me as a hostage for years....once I talked to a lawyer I learned that there are ways that you can leave without giving up your rights. I know each state might be different but that's why just even talking to a lawyer is well worth the consultation fee.

You are making amazing steps.....I'm thinking about you as I go about doing the very same thing. My movers come tomorrow.....

Given the bright woman you are...
 

...why in God's name would you, even for one second, rethink this? Please spend some time reading your own posts, then ask yourself if any rational person would make any other decision than to divorce and leave.

Why in the world would you prolong the pain and damage being caused? If not for you, for your children please remove them from this toxic environment. I did not do that for my daughter, and now we are all paying the price.

Cyranoak

No, Cyranoak. I am not rethinking leaving AH and removing kids from the toxic environment at all. I am trying to decide whether I should file for divorce and figure out a way to get him out of the house or should I just move away with kids out of state to my sister's. I am 110% committed to leaving him.

Filing for divorce and getting him out of the house are two differnt legal issues. AH can get really ugly (given the depths he has proved he can go to) and I am worried how it would affect the kids to see all this happening in front of them. There are various things he could do and am worried about the kids being exposed to the ugliness.

So, for now - decided to take the kids to my sisters and leave them there for their summer vacation (after their school ends in two weeks), I come back alone and figure out a solution to making him leave the house. And either start divorce process or pack up and go back to my sister's.

BTW, I love your brand of advice - to the point (sometimes bitter, but oh so right)

California laws are so ... wacky.

but the abandoning the home thing
happened to me here in Montana.
SO I'd be well educated on that one.

I liked this part:
It's a great relief to have 3D support.
She's going to be a Godsend.

Hang in there - we're here!

it might be prudent to run all that by a lawyer, as you are taking the kids out of state and leaving them there, without either parent. i'm not sure that is legal if the father is not in agreement and you are still married.

it could be viewed as abandonment by you in court.

everyone here understands it is not abandonment, it is leaving them with a loving adult to get them out of a toxic environment, but if he wants to get ugly with a good lawyer, it might not be within your legal rights to do so.

if you go to your sisters with the children, what would you do for work? can you work remotely from there?

You sound so strong and your head is in the right place but I second the suggestion of talking to a lawyer and also with a domestic violence counselor if he's going to get ugly. Between the two of them they can help you find a plan, with all the t's crossed, that keeps you and the kids safe both legally and personally. If he has the potential to get ugly, you need both those bases covered.

Thumper - Thanks, I will call domestic violence center. By ugly, I mean - he could things like - live in his van near the home (which is his grand plan if I manage to get him out the house), try to get the kids from daycare, school (claiming it is his right, even if he is not drinking I do not trust him to be responsible with the kids), keep knocking on the door and try to enter home, embarass the kids, etc, etc. I know I could call the cops and look for legal solutions but how is this going to effect the kids to see all this? He thinks he is above the law - he in general disregards rules/laws..I can foresee that it is going to be nightmare if he is around after the divorce and we would have to take turns with the kids, etc. Always pushing buttons, boundaries, not listening to what I say is best for the kids (He bought the kids an ipad!!!! after he came and even after I told him DO NOT buy the ipad for the kids. he is on unemployement, he claims he needs to be careful with money and he buys an IPAD????) I don't think kids need an ipad - this is just spoiling them and "buying" their love.

Naive - I am seriously worried now. I told AH about the summer vacation plan for the kids - that they will stay with my sister for a month and that she would bring them back. Why would sending kids for their summer vacation to their aunt's for a month be counted as abandonment? I am planning to either join them or bring them back home after a month.. I did inform the lawyer about my plan and she said it sounds fine.. work - my boss said I could work remote for a week and will also take couple of days off.

I know for a fact that CA cops frown on people living in their van
just to harass their ex wives.

Even though CA laws are far and away from MT laws
I do know that much.
Even if he DOES 'live' in his van
CA law will make him do it
in a RV park or public land camping type stuff.

I'm glad you're attorney if putting all these considerations
into your paperwork.

whew on that one!