Alone22

Here is my AH's funny quack of the day.

AH: " because you have trust issues our trust issues happened because of a self fulfilling prophecy"

Me: "hahahah let me get this straight. You lie and have become untrustworthy because my trust issues force you by some sort of magical powers to do it?"

Eight Ball

They are pure gems arent they.

From Wikepedia: A self-fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to become true, by the very terms of the prophecy itself, due to positive feedback between belief and behavior.

That sounds a bit like Dr Phil to me! Dont get me wrong, I love Dr Phil but when he says this sort of thing he means that we should think more positively and reap those rewards in life. It has to do with ourselves not external forces such as your AH. Your AH has obviously read this and done a spin on it to make it about you. You have to admire their logic sometimes dont you. They are very inventive.

Its good that you are recognising it as quacking though and not taking it to heart.

24Years

My sister just told me her husband knows the reason she left him, it wasn't because of his drinking, it was because she has been dying her hair (to cover the grey) and it has ruined her brain... :rotfxko Funny...and sad that he can even put that out there.

Sylvie66

That makes total sense. I, for one, am "obviously having a midlife crisis."

And being me, I shot back with, 'Well then, where's my red convertible?!' He laughed too!

- Sylvie

StarCat

My favorite it still, after confronting me at work and "apologizing" in the form of telling me that everything that went wrong was my fault, but he'll take me back and give me another chance because he's such a great guy...

ME: How many more second chances do you think I should give you? You've used them all up. I don't have any left.
XABF (shouting to my back as I walk away): Yes you do! Don't lie to me! You've got lots left!


Let this be a reminder, the more we give, the more they want.

wanttobehealthy

The self fulfilling prophecy remark is a personal favorite of my AH too. It's a convenient way for him to compartmentalize all of his behaviors/actions/words etc... If I dare suggest that I expect him to behave as history shows he will, I get told that bc I am so convinced he's going lie/drink/break promises etc... I create the very thing I want to avoid.

I'm powerful huh!?

I used to point out to him when he'd say this that if I could "create" the negative self fulfilling prophecies, didn't he think I'd create positive ones too?

That usually shut him up.

Same with quacking about how I "cause" him to drink. If I cause his drinking then surely I'd be able to stop it too and we both know how well that's worked out I'd tell him and then he'd storm off and drink...

Obviously it was stupid to even engage in those conversations but it's hard to keep my mouth shut when such insanity is being spewed...

All of this is past tense fyi... I have no intention of having these conversations any more...

Alone22

If I dare suggest that I expect him to behave as history shows he will, I get told that bc I am so convinced he's going lie/drink/break promises etc... I create the very thing I want to avoid. WTBH this very conversation happened at my house this morning almost word for word! I told him I have very little hope that things will change. His response was something like "why should he even try to change if the likelihood of me believing it is so low". I pointed out to him that he should want the change for himself and how I respond to it or not should not be a deterrent from him wanting to do it. He either wants to be sober and recovered or he doesn't. Whatever I do, think or feel should not change his desire. I know how true recovery works now....they have to want it for themselves. BTW he quit drinking 2 weeks ago on Mother's Day when I told him he could not come with us to our family event.

wanttobehealthy

That's soooo familiar-- all of it. The "why should I bother" part especially. After lying since our marriage began, he tells the truth once or twice and then would say to me (in recent months) "why should I even bother telling the truth when you're not going to believe what I say anytime soon?". Clearly the ONLY reason for being honest is to get, what? Me saying "yay you're awesome, now I believe everything you say and go ahead back to lying and doing what you want and I'll pretend I don't see it?!" :rotfxko

Sorry you had such a miserable conversation this morning... It's like banging your head against a wall isn't it, having those kind of "talks" with an A, IMHO.

LexieCat

Obviously, it isn't logic that's at work, here. For them to acknowledge the truth of what we are saying would make it necessary for them to change. They can't afford to change (too scary, unthinkable, impossible), so it's deny, deny, deny. There is no "plausible deniability"--it's all totally IMplausible, but it's the only tool they've got.

wanttobehealthy

The odd thing is that my AH acknowledges with stunning clarity, what he does and why and continues to do it. It seems to me that that must make it that much harder to stay in denial, no?

Alone22

What is really sad is the reality of the disease. I know my AH really does want to quit and really does want life and his marriage to be better, but to really give into the recovery process is very scary to him I imagine. He wanted to know how to build back trust and pointed out he needed to be 100% transparent. After he took out $100 at the ATM this week I asked him what he needed it for. He stated he had no clue what he spent it on. He then proceeded to get all huffy about how he is not going to be micro managed. I pointed out that he needs to determine what he is more concerned with, building back trust or not being micro managed? Only reason to be uncomfortable with being 100% transparent is because he thinks he might slip and wants the ability to do it and possibly not get caught.

wanttobehealthy

alone- you are describing my marriage to a t... my H said he wanted to be married, wanted to earn back trust, wanted a lot of things... but then doing what was necessary for any of what he wanted-- well, that piece of the puzzle isn't what he wanted... we've had the transparancy conversation too and the huffy attitude when i am bothered about the on going deceit... the micro managed conversation is one we had way too often too-- he's right, being micro managed sucks and it just makes you crazy-- but he's unwilling to be honest and as you said, wants the freedom to slip without having to be called on it so he wants you to turn a blind eye... so for you to NOT micro manage and to accept that he'll do what he'll do is quite a lot to consider being able to do and still remain married... i realized that i couldn't do that. the whole cyle is maddening and enough to drive anyone insane...

CXR

I've often said that even when sober, the reality, the world, that exists around the alcoholic, can be very sick, delusional, and so on. I have seen my wife -- when not drinking or drunk -- tell me about something that happened the night before which isn't even close to anything true. Very sick and very sad.

I used to say this was one of the 'ism's -- the rage, anger, hatred, lying, and so on. Sometimes, it's very odd behavior.

I have found that even when sober -- logic is not part of their world. It's very sad.

Alone22

Not sure I can do it for much longer either. I have been giving a lot of thought about what makes sense for me. We have a tight budget without his addictions and with it we are plowing through savings. We have some other spending habits that need adjusting but they are minor in comparison. Before I looked at our finances this weekend I was in the mind set of give it a year, work on myself, put up more boundaries and then see how I feel. If I wait a year I am fearful of what will be left in our savings, which just puts me and the kids at more of a disadvantage for our future. The biggest difference between you and me WTBH is you work. I have been a stay at home mom for about 11 years now so I would have to make some major changes before I could move on. Going back to work would be a major overhaul to our family structure, but one that is needed if our marriage is in fact doomed. I feel like I need a few months to see where this attempt at recovery is going, see how I can control the finances, and I guess give it all one last attempt before making the change of me going back to work. I do feel like it might be the next right step to take. I would be doing it in preparation to separate and then divorce if all of that does not help AH find his bottom and really recover. The future just looks to bleak if I stay and nothing changes.

LaPinturaBella

^^^^AMEN! As I posted in another thread, I am in awe of those that do seek out, work on and achieve real recovery. I can only imagine how difficult it must be, as recovery from being a codie is hard as heck. Those A's who just get sober without the real recovery, without the necessary spirituality must be just miserable. It makes me sad that a human being would have to live like that, but it also makes me glad that I don't have to be involved with it in any way at all. I can chose to walk away and live in reality and serenity.

wanttobehealthy

Alone- Not to minimize your worry at all about having been a SAHM for 11 yrs... BUT... I lost my job this winter. It's been eliminated from my school budget and I do not have a job as of June 30. I've been teaching for about 15 yrs and have a Master's which ought to be a good thing but in the world of unions and teacher salaries makes me highly undesirable bc all that a district sees is "we'd have to pay her high on the union mandated payscale". So, I have no job prospects at the moment (one offer in MA is contingent upon the state renewing the schools charter which I learned about 2 weeks ago so even my "sure thing" is not sure anymore) and on paper it looks like this is the worst possible time to leave/divorce/end things/do what I'm doing.

BUT, the alternative is to continue to live as I have been and worse yet, to have my daughters continue to grow up watching me and learning to live as I have.

So, I may have to move in with my mom, we may lose our house, I may have to go to a shelter with them. But regardless of what I have to do, I am doing it bc the misery of changing and whatever that will entail is better than continuing as I am.

I do have work experience in recent years which you don't, but honestly, I'm not really in a much better position than you... Can you contact your state's unemployment office? They have counselors who help with job searching and getting back into the world of work. How about contacting day cares and seeing if they need help? You've got tons of experience in that area.... How about your kids' schools? Be a substitute teacher... And remember, your H will have to pay child support and alimony likely...

I know how daunting it is to try and think about making monumental changes when you can't predict what the future will bring or how you'll make it work, but what got me over that hump was asking myself whether I could really see myself able to continue to live as I had been. I can't and don't want to and so, anything is better than what was... I've accepted that it's going to suck. I won't have a comfortable home, lots of things will be different, I may need to get assistance with food etc... But anything is better than the current situation and I'm continuing to look for a new job and hopeful that something will come up.

Linkmeister

Here's yet another contribution to the quacking: This came in an email to me yesterday after I got in touch, trying to resolve an insurance issue. The spelling, grammar and punctuation are all his.

"...and I never ever discouraged you to go to alanon ever..."

"as far as my drinking I drink way less then i ever have...I had a good long talk with a counselor about this and he agreed that its been the best ive ever been...I havent lost work or needed any medication because I dont relapse anymore...look I know you are going to have your own thoughts and opinions and im sure you can play the victim card in alanon beacuse is that not want you want to be? ever since I met you thats what its been...it dumbfounded me that you jumped in headfirst in this mode and we had not even lived together."

...this now is just my opion to me you cant grow at all in AA...sure you can live the life talk the talk and spend your whole life seeing the same people saying the same things and its a tight circle personly I think its very imature and frankly quite stupid...my opion...I dont want to see the same people day in and day out for the rest of my life...I would rather move on and forward..."

And the beat goes on, quack, quack, quack.......all the way to his new address in Egypt-at De-Nial River.

FLsunshine

After enjoying sometime feeding the ducks yesterday.My RAH drives by a bar and says "We can go in there and have a few beers?"...I learned not to engage but I unintentionally fidget..which he sees then laughs.. I'm not at the point that I can joke with him about this hellish past drinking with most recent relapses.. -ts a quack, I know but very hurtful one..

StarCat

My "opion," if he doesn't want to see the same people day in and day out for the rest of his life, why is he arguing to stay in a relationship? How committed is he really to any relationship, which requires seeing that same person 'day in and day out'?

Linkmeister

Starcat-that was my EXABF opining on AA - seeing the same people day in and out. That's why he does not want to go.

It's the same principle as being in a relationship-if you'recommitted to sobriety, you go to your meetings day in and out.