Angry at my HP
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
Angry at my HP
I am. I'm trying to work step 3 which requires a decision to turn my life and will over the a HP of my understanding. My HP happens to be God.
I have always thought of myself as a spiritual person. Unsure how to deal with my exah's alcoholism, I prayed many, many times that God would show my what to do...that he would shine a light and lead me where he wanted me to go (in terms of staying and trying to work things out or leaving or what...). I really tried to be open to his will and trust that he would lead me in the right direction.
I went down a path of enabling and insanity with my exah. I did things that I thought were the right at the time only to realize that my decisions were in fact harmful to me, my exah and our son. They subjected me (and worse, my son) to my exah's addiction and we became sick. I didn't know it until just recently.
So I lay in bed in the morning now and I say a prayer and I ask my HP to help me. I try to turn my life and my will over to him but I'm angry. Very angry. Angry that I trusted Him and the signs he gave me (if he gave me any at all) over the years have been very subtle and damn near impossible to decipher.
But ya know...I don't trust my HP. And I don't trust myself. So how do I turn my life and my will over to him? I don't think I can until I figure out my relationship with him.
I think its okay to be mad at God. Its better than being indifferent, right?
I just don't know if I can turn things over to him when i' m this mad at him. And honestly, mad at myself too.
Any thoughts?
I have always thought of myself as a spiritual person. Unsure how to deal with my exah's alcoholism, I prayed many, many times that God would show my what to do...that he would shine a light and lead me where he wanted me to go (in terms of staying and trying to work things out or leaving or what...). I really tried to be open to his will and trust that he would lead me in the right direction.
I went down a path of enabling and insanity with my exah. I did things that I thought were the right at the time only to realize that my decisions were in fact harmful to me, my exah and our son. They subjected me (and worse, my son) to my exah's addiction and we became sick. I didn't know it until just recently.
So I lay in bed in the morning now and I say a prayer and I ask my HP to help me. I try to turn my life and my will over to him but I'm angry. Very angry. Angry that I trusted Him and the signs he gave me (if he gave me any at all) over the years have been very subtle and damn near impossible to decipher.
But ya know...I don't trust my HP. And I don't trust myself. So how do I turn my life and my will over to him? I don't think I can until I figure out my relationship with him.
I think its okay to be mad at God. Its better than being indifferent, right?
I just don't know if I can turn things over to him when i' m this mad at him. And honestly, mad at myself too.
Any thoughts?
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 821
I used to hate God for the rough life I lived so I know what you mean.
I've been learning how to hand over my life to a HP. It may not be a God in the typical sense but it was more about acknowledging that I'm not powerful enough to make things happen.
I talk about this with my therapist often. One thing she told me is to pray for awareness. God may be giving signs all the time. I just might be too foggy to see them. I think we're not supposed to ask for signs and proof. That doesn't mean they don't exist. So for me, asking to be aware may be helping me see those signs I otherwise ignored.
I've been learning how to hand over my life to a HP. It may not be a God in the typical sense but it was more about acknowledging that I'm not powerful enough to make things happen.
I talk about this with my therapist often. One thing she told me is to pray for awareness. God may be giving signs all the time. I just might be too foggy to see them. I think we're not supposed to ask for signs and proof. That doesn't mean they don't exist. So for me, asking to be aware may be helping me see those signs I otherwise ignored.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
When people ask me about my relationship with my HP, I refer them to the movie "The Apostle" where Robert Duvall plays this preacher who spends a night in his mother's attic talking to God loudly enough that the neighbors call and complain.
He says something like, "I know your ways are better than my ways, I know you are God and you're in charge, and I trust you, Lord, but I don't have to like the way you do things, and right about now, I'm really wondering what you're doing..."
I feel your anger. I've been there. The point where I started allowing God to turn me around was when I decided to throw out everything I thought I knew about God, and just sit down and say, "OK, let's start fresh: Who are you, and what do you want with me?"
Because I found that so much of what I thought and believed about God was stuff that other people had told me. Sort of like listening to the town gossip rather than getting to know him myself. Now, I really want that bumper sticker that says, "I'm on good terms with God, it's just his fanclub I can't stand."
I also found that all the time I had thought God was telling me to stay and support my AH, the real reason I stayed was my own pride. I was not going to admit I had made a bad choice. Or that I was married to an alcoholic. Or that my life had become unmanageable because of it. I was going to stand by my man like a good Christian woman so that everyone could see what an upstanding, righteous person I was. (Very godly of me, right?)
I don't know if any of this helps, but as I don't feel like I have ANY advice... at least I can share my experiences...
He says something like, "I know your ways are better than my ways, I know you are God and you're in charge, and I trust you, Lord, but I don't have to like the way you do things, and right about now, I'm really wondering what you're doing..."
I feel your anger. I've been there. The point where I started allowing God to turn me around was when I decided to throw out everything I thought I knew about God, and just sit down and say, "OK, let's start fresh: Who are you, and what do you want with me?"
Because I found that so much of what I thought and believed about God was stuff that other people had told me. Sort of like listening to the town gossip rather than getting to know him myself. Now, I really want that bumper sticker that says, "I'm on good terms with God, it's just his fanclub I can't stand."
I also found that all the time I had thought God was telling me to stay and support my AH, the real reason I stayed was my own pride. I was not going to admit I had made a bad choice. Or that I was married to an alcoholic. Or that my life had become unmanageable because of it. I was going to stand by my man like a good Christian woman so that everyone could see what an upstanding, righteous person I was. (Very godly of me, right?)
I don't know if any of this helps, but as I don't feel like I have ANY advice... at least I can share my experiences...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
God may be giving signs all the time. I just might be too foggy to see them.
i think my point is God's will doesn't HURT me, beat me down, cause me to question my own sanity. MY WILL does that.
which reminds me of one of my favorite poems...
As children bring their broken toys
With tears for you to mend
I brought my broken dreams to God
because he was my friend
but then, instead of leaving him
in peace to work alone
i hung around and tried to help
with ways that were my own
at last I snatched them back and cried
how can you be so slow
my child, he said, what could i do,
you never did let go.
Thats me...the child who won't let go.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
lilamy...wow...you blew my socks off. thank you for sharing your perspective on this. My thank you button disapperared suddenly...you are so right.
i really thought i had a personal relationship with God. I really did. Now I wonder if I did/do. I feel very unsure right now. I guess its back to the drawing board like you said...
i really thought i had a personal relationship with God. I really did. Now I wonder if I did/do. I feel very unsure right now. I guess its back to the drawing board like you said...
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sometimes I've gotten wrapped up, too, in trying to DECIPHER what it is I'm supposed to be doing. And, in truth, that's still me trying to exert my own powers of discernment. Trying to read tea leaves.
What does work for me, more and more, is to just try to turn OFF the thinking. Just do. Or be. (Or, if you're into Sinatra, do-be-do-be-do.) Let the other stuff simply happen. I can't tell you how often of late I've done that, only to have whatever it was work out in a way that I can handle (even if it's something I never would have foreseen). IOW, getting out of my own damn way. And my HP's way. Lots less stress for me.
Of course, I don't manage this wondrous feat all the time, but it is working out for me often enough that I am starting to seriously trust it.
It's hard to explain--it takes a little willingness to experiment, and a modicum of courage. But the results are very cool.
What does work for me, more and more, is to just try to turn OFF the thinking. Just do. Or be. (Or, if you're into Sinatra, do-be-do-be-do.) Let the other stuff simply happen. I can't tell you how often of late I've done that, only to have whatever it was work out in a way that I can handle (even if it's something I never would have foreseen). IOW, getting out of my own damn way. And my HP's way. Lots less stress for me.
Of course, I don't manage this wondrous feat all the time, but it is working out for me often enough that I am starting to seriously trust it.
It's hard to explain--it takes a little willingness to experiment, and a modicum of courage. But the results are very cool.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
My first year of sobriety my HP was a Harley Davidson Motorcycle because I was so 'angry' with 'God' and what 'God' had allowed me to do to myself.
It took me that long to understand that HP was not some omnipotent being that would reach down from the sky and magically pull me out of whatever mess I had gotten myself into.
Step 3 finally became clear to me, after I read many many times
"Footprints In The Sands"
Over and over and over.
I finally came to understand that Step 3 was just a decision. That because of that decision my prayers would change if I was sincere. My morning prayer each day is a very simple "Thy will be done not mine. Thank you."
Now how do I do HP's will and not mine. I have learned through practice, practice, practice that each day to the BEST of my ability (and some days are better than others, I am not perfect) I practice Thoughtfulness, Kindness, and Consideration to all who cross my path and I treat all who cross my path as I would like to be treated.
Now I am not perfect, far from it, still practicing here folks, but most days it works very well. Even this last year when my first love did a pretty good job at first of 'pulling the wool over my eyes' as to his current alcohol problem (he is an alcoholic narcissistic azzhole) and I only slip right before I was getting on the plane to return to NM for the last time from his place, and even then I was to NOT rip him a new one. Just said what I needed to say, no yelling, very firmly, and walked away.
I have learned over these years to be very careful 'what I pray for', as HP can have a very off the wall sense of humor.
To me, 'making the decision' meant doing the next correct thing as I believed it to be. HP would not punish me if it was wrong, and if it really was a very bad decision HP would carry me.
Being mad at 'God', 'HP', 'The Great Spirit', or whatever you call your HP is nothing new.
I have come to understand that at leat my HP understood my anger.
I hope the above ramble helped you a bit.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
It took me that long to understand that HP was not some omnipotent being that would reach down from the sky and magically pull me out of whatever mess I had gotten myself into.
Step 3 finally became clear to me, after I read many many times
"Footprints In The Sands"
Footprints in the Sand
One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.
This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.
So I said to the Lord,
"You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during
the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one
set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most,
you have not been there for me?"
The Lord replied,
"The times when you have
seen only one set of footprints,
is when I carried you."
Mary Stevenson
One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.
This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.
So I said to the Lord,
"You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during
the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one
set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most,
you have not been there for me?"
The Lord replied,
"The times when you have
seen only one set of footprints,
is when I carried you."
Mary Stevenson
Over and over and over.
I finally came to understand that Step 3 was just a decision. That because of that decision my prayers would change if I was sincere. My morning prayer each day is a very simple "Thy will be done not mine. Thank you."
Now how do I do HP's will and not mine. I have learned through practice, practice, practice that each day to the BEST of my ability (and some days are better than others, I am not perfect) I practice Thoughtfulness, Kindness, and Consideration to all who cross my path and I treat all who cross my path as I would like to be treated.
Now I am not perfect, far from it, still practicing here folks, but most days it works very well. Even this last year when my first love did a pretty good job at first of 'pulling the wool over my eyes' as to his current alcohol problem (he is an alcoholic narcissistic azzhole) and I only slip right before I was getting on the plane to return to NM for the last time from his place, and even then I was to NOT rip him a new one. Just said what I needed to say, no yelling, very firmly, and walked away.
I have learned over these years to be very careful 'what I pray for', as HP can have a very off the wall sense of humor.
To me, 'making the decision' meant doing the next correct thing as I believed it to be. HP would not punish me if it was wrong, and if it really was a very bad decision HP would carry me.
Being mad at 'God', 'HP', 'The Great Spirit', or whatever you call your HP is nothing new.
I have come to understand that at leat my HP understood my anger.
I hope the above ramble helped you a bit.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Angry at God. I agree with that. It's okay, God can take it.
The signs for me were definitely there. In hindsight now, I can see them so clearly. When I first sought recovery and began to see the destruction my own decisions had on my life and the length I went to in order to control things beyond me, I was infuriated. With myself, with my X, with God, with the universe at large. My blame held no bounds.
As my understanding grew and I began to forgive myself for not knowing any better, I could see a higher power's influence in my life. In time, I began to be grateful for that influence and accepted its presence. No apologies needed for my anger, my willingness to listen is all it took.
These days, I see signs everywhere and I am grateful when they appear and show the way. I am far less frustrated and happy I no longer have to know the path and all the twists and turns before they come. I take the road as it lies and I am grateful each day for the help the universe tosses my way.
Give it time.
Alice
The signs for me were definitely there. In hindsight now, I can see them so clearly. When I first sought recovery and began to see the destruction my own decisions had on my life and the length I went to in order to control things beyond me, I was infuriated. With myself, with my X, with God, with the universe at large. My blame held no bounds.
As my understanding grew and I began to forgive myself for not knowing any better, I could see a higher power's influence in my life. In time, I began to be grateful for that influence and accepted its presence. No apologies needed for my anger, my willingness to listen is all it took.
These days, I see signs everywhere and I am grateful when they appear and show the way. I am far less frustrated and happy I no longer have to know the path and all the twists and turns before they come. I take the road as it lies and I am grateful each day for the help the universe tosses my way.
Give it time.
Alice
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Martinsville, Ohio
Posts: 79
Are you sure you aren't angry at yourself? I could be angry with myself but I am not. I never could be angry with God and sounds like you aren't either.
Now if you lost your son over his alcoholism I could see where you would have anger against God even though He always takes something bad and makes something real good from it.
I guess I have been blessed as I never felt that way but I am a man, not a woman and know my wife looks at things differently than I do.
God's Blessings either way and thanks for the post. Just writing it really helps.
Now if you lost your son over his alcoholism I could see where you would have anger against God even though He always takes something bad and makes something real good from it.
I guess I have been blessed as I never felt that way but I am a man, not a woman and know my wife looks at things differently than I do.
God's Blessings either way and thanks for the post. Just writing it really helps.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by outonalimb 
But ya know...I don't trust my HP. And I don't trust myself. So how do I turn my life and my will over to him? I don't think I can until I figure out my relationship with him.
I think its okay to be mad at God. Its better than being indifferent, right?
I just don't know if I can turn things over to him when i' m this mad at him. And honestly, mad at myself too.
Any thoughts?
I think its okay to be mad at God. Its better than being indifferent, right?
I just don't know if I can turn things over to him when i' m this mad at him. And honestly, mad at myself too.
Any thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Sometimes I've gotten wrapped up, too, in trying to DECIPHER what it is I'm supposed to be doing. And, in truth, that's still me trying to exert my own powers of discernment. Trying to read tea leaves.
What does work for me, more and more, is to just try to turn OFF the thinking. Just do. Or be. (Or, if you're into Sinatra, do-be-do-be-do.) Let the other stuff simply happen. I can't tell you how often of late I've done that, only to have whatever it was work out in a way that I can handle (even if it's something I never would have foreseen). IOW, getting out of my own damn way. And my HP's way. Lots less stress for me.
What does work for me, more and more, is to just try to turn OFF the thinking. Just do. Or be. (Or, if you're into Sinatra, do-be-do-be-do.) Let the other stuff simply happen. I can't tell you how often of late I've done that, only to have whatever it was work out in a way that I can handle (even if it's something I never would have foreseen). IOW, getting out of my own damn way. And my HP's way. Lots less stress for me.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
I have been "angry" with my dad, my mum, my kids and on occasions, with God,.....and they have been angry with me.......but bless them, they still loved me.
I figure God has had millions of angry, p***ed off folks over the centuries so another one is no hassle to Him.
If not listening to him, or putting my own slant on what I felt He was saying to me, caused things to go belly up, then it should have been Him who was annoyed at me.
Of course He just kept on loving me, helping me, and trying to get my attention.
I have a relationship with God who is my HP, and tho I feel His words and feelings in my heart........I have never had Him speak vocally to me, and if He ever does I would probably head for the nearest shrink.
I figure God has had millions of angry, p***ed off folks over the centuries so another one is no hassle to Him.
If not listening to him, or putting my own slant on what I felt He was saying to me, caused things to go belly up, then it should have been Him who was annoyed at me.
Of course He just kept on loving me, helping me, and trying to get my attention.
I have a relationship with God who is my HP, and tho I feel His words and feelings in my heart........I have never had Him speak vocally to me, and if He ever does I would probably head for the nearest shrink.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I don't believe in god so I have no one to be mad at, other than my exabf and myself.
1) my exabf is in the throes of a disease. It's not that he can't be blamed for his actions or I don't have some justified resentment, but so much of his horrible behavior was because of the disease, so when I remember that, it diffuses a bit of the anger.
2) I fell in love with someone who is sick. I tried to fix him. Why did I do this? Because I too was sick when we met, and I got even sicker being with him. Is this something I should be angry with myself about? Trying to love someone is a noble act. I did not do it in a healthy fashion-I know that is because I experienced some trauma during my divorce and was not in a good place when I met him.
Once again, I can't really be TOO angry at myself..I know so much more now than I did then.
There were good things that came out of my relationship, when I really look at it objectively. It led me to where I am today in a lot of ways, which is doing what I want to do career-wise, and considering a future career as an addiction counselor.
So what's the point of being angry?
I do believe in a higher power because I've had spiritual things happen to me. I don't know how to define it, but I think there's some order to the universe that takes us where we need to be. Although you can't see it now, your relationship with your AH may have served a purpose..made you stronger, more compassionate, more sympathetic to sick people, helped you identify your own character defects that now through doing the steps, you will become a healthier, happier person.
As they sang in that MOnty Python movie, Always look on the bright side of life
Start singing that song, and you just CAN'T feel angry any more
1) my exabf is in the throes of a disease. It's not that he can't be blamed for his actions or I don't have some justified resentment, but so much of his horrible behavior was because of the disease, so when I remember that, it diffuses a bit of the anger.
2) I fell in love with someone who is sick. I tried to fix him. Why did I do this? Because I too was sick when we met, and I got even sicker being with him. Is this something I should be angry with myself about? Trying to love someone is a noble act. I did not do it in a healthy fashion-I know that is because I experienced some trauma during my divorce and was not in a good place when I met him.
Once again, I can't really be TOO angry at myself..I know so much more now than I did then.
There were good things that came out of my relationship, when I really look at it objectively. It led me to where I am today in a lot of ways, which is doing what I want to do career-wise, and considering a future career as an addiction counselor.
So what's the point of being angry?
I do believe in a higher power because I've had spiritual things happen to me. I don't know how to define it, but I think there's some order to the universe that takes us where we need to be. Although you can't see it now, your relationship with your AH may have served a purpose..made you stronger, more compassionate, more sympathetic to sick people, helped you identify your own character defects that now through doing the steps, you will become a healthier, happier person.
As they sang in that MOnty Python movie, Always look on the bright side of life
Start singing that song, and you just CAN'T feel angry any more Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Been mad at God? Oh yeah, btdt. Have asked "THAT is your answer?!?!" when I've prayed for things to get better, and they only get worse. What I've learned, over time, is that stuff happens for a reason (something my mom always told me, but took me a while to accept it). Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people.
I heard Joyce Meyer talk, once, about the people who spent 40 years going around a mountain (sorry, but not very up on biblical stuff) and that she found herself ending up in the same situation over and over, and she prayed "PLEASE tell me what I'm supposed to do, 'cause I'm TIRED of going 'round this mountain".
I'm like ((Jadmack)) - never have had him speak directly to me, and it would probably scare me to death, but I have "God-shots" when I just KNOW what is happening is because of Him. I've always had a strong faith, but going into addiction then recovery from that and codependency, I had my doubts. I had to look, and look hard for signs that He really was there. I started by saying "thank you" for simple things...gorgeous flowers on the side of the road, seeing deer in my front yard (and NOT running into the ones who crossed the road), etc.
I still don't understand His ways, and I still have anger at times. However, I realize that I am most often angry at myself (later..much later). My daily prayer is "help me to do what I need to do, to get me where you want me to be".
I just went to a funeral, today, of someone who has been a part of my life (good and bad) for 20 years. I don't understand why she had to die, my heart is breaking for her kids and mom...and for me. I don't get it, I didn't get it when my mom died either. I'm not angry, but I am hurt. I figure God knows that and he'll get me through it.
I think God has strong shoulders, and he can handle the anger, the doubts, and everything else. Today, I'm accepting things as they are. Tomorrow? I may be angry, but I get over it and will see the lesson I'm supposed to learn in hindsight.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I heard Joyce Meyer talk, once, about the people who spent 40 years going around a mountain (sorry, but not very up on biblical stuff) and that she found herself ending up in the same situation over and over, and she prayed "PLEASE tell me what I'm supposed to do, 'cause I'm TIRED of going 'round this mountain".
I'm like ((Jadmack)) - never have had him speak directly to me, and it would probably scare me to death, but I have "God-shots" when I just KNOW what is happening is because of Him. I've always had a strong faith, but going into addiction then recovery from that and codependency, I had my doubts. I had to look, and look hard for signs that He really was there. I started by saying "thank you" for simple things...gorgeous flowers on the side of the road, seeing deer in my front yard (and NOT running into the ones who crossed the road), etc.
I still don't understand His ways, and I still have anger at times. However, I realize that I am most often angry at myself (later..much later). My daily prayer is "help me to do what I need to do, to get me where you want me to be".
I just went to a funeral, today, of someone who has been a part of my life (good and bad) for 20 years. I don't understand why she had to die, my heart is breaking for her kids and mom...and for me. I don't get it, I didn't get it when my mom died either. I'm not angry, but I am hurt. I figure God knows that and he'll get me through it.
I think God has strong shoulders, and he can handle the anger, the doubts, and everything else. Today, I'm accepting things as they are. Tomorrow? I may be angry, but I get over it and will see the lesson I'm supposed to learn in hindsight.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I struggled with God and praying and all that jazz. Then I tried it. Now I can't live without it. Everyday I say a prayer. Yesterday - I was struggling hanging a new light fixture in my daughter's bedroom. And I mean in tears, swearing, trying not to throw tools and smash the lightbox out of the ceiling. I stopped, sat down on the floor and prayed. Just a simple request to "God and the Universe" to give me the patience and intellect to figure this out so I can move on with my day and my child will have a sweet new light fixture to come home to. Then I walked away from it for about 15 min, and when I came back and looked again, the whole thing made sense - where to put the crossbar, which screws went where, etc. It just fell into place. And it looks really nice!
It's been the little things like that where I can honestly say there is a power greater than myself.
When I stopped thinking so much and just sincerely did it - I found it worked.
It's been the little things like that where I can honestly say there is a power greater than myself.
When I stopped thinking so much and just sincerely did it - I found it worked.
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