Blogs


Notices

asking for good vibes for strength

Old 05-13-2011, 08:19 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
asking for good vibes for strength

and courage, that I will be able to do what I know is right. even if it seems wrong.
my desire for peace and freedom is great. i cant even post my situation, for I am sure it will trigger everyone, and rightly so. I have been dealing with this situation for a while now, and have been unable to let go. it is so hard to put out a grown child who seems to be unable mentally to take care of his self, but who am I to make that determination? We make each other crazy, and that is pretty much unavoidable, since this situation should not even exist. He feels pretty helpless, and I am sure that I have contributed to his lack of any confidence. I grieve that, and grieve the lost time.

how hard this all is. I dont know how to get strong enough. but i know that things wont change if things dont change. i truly meant to help, but it became an alternative for him, I guess. tho he denies that.
making them literally homeless is truly hard, but i feel certain that he has not used this time wisely, tho he claims he has.
the stress is killing me, slowly, and is not doing him any big favors, except a roof over his head.

his problems, his health, and all the mess seems so huge, like a big tangle that i dont think he can fix. he probably needs some meds for some disorder. how do you let go and still feel like a loving parent? I believe that i have helped him know of resources, and things to try. but it is up to him to do so. and when he is so hateful all the time, i feel very sad and low. i am letting him do this, and i am swallowing my pride each time- this dysfunction is hard on both of us.

just needed to post. i have not, for a while, for i know i have not taken the advice of many. it is just so hard to put him out on the street. i was so angry today, i told him to pretend i am dead, and figure out what he would be doing then, and do that.

he got his license back today. dad paid his fines. his car wont run, most likely, but he says that now he could find a job and get things going with his license back.

do you give some one a little more time, when you figure he will do the same things again , like drink when he gets his first paycheck? he truly seems off kilter, his nerves shot, teeth hurting, etc.he knows the clinics are available, but he usually forgets to call, forgets appts, and fails to make efforts to get the help. all he has to do is make appts., ask, and I would take him to the doc. i refuse to do it for him anymore.


hugs
chicory
chicory is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
barb dwyer (05-13-2011), Cyranoak (05-17-2011), dbh (05-15-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), Kassie2 (05-13-2011), Opivotal (05-13-2011), RollTide (05-18-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:27 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
omg-he just told me that he called the clinic, where he had an appt set, to find out when it was. they say he has no appt there. he cant seem to do anything for his self. this kind of thing happens to him all the time!!!!!
and he wont consider that he may need meds to help him maybe adhd , or antidepressents. he feels he needs anxiety meds, of course, but he is just gonna have to get desperate before he asks for help i guess. not gonna get desperate enough here.
chicory is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (05-21-2011), barb dwyer (05-13-2011), Buffalo66 (05-15-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), Kassie2 (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:28 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
SoloMio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,107
My mother probably lived with the same stuff you are living with, because my brother had many of the characteristics of your son. When she kicked him out, she said "God takes care of drunks, fools, and children."

I have to say, my brother had an amazing capacity for survival, despite his "handicaps." They DO GET BY! And their HP IS working for them!

Chicory, as a mother, I feel your pain, and I don't want to minimize the difficulty of doing what it will take to restore you to sanity. You have to make up your own mind as to how you will live your life. But as I've told my own kids many times, don't make any decision just based on fear. Work through the fear and do it for a REAL reason.

Hugs back.
SoloMio is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SoloMio For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (05-21-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), stella27 (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:35 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
same planet...different world
 
barb dwyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,944
Blog Entries: 7
was wondering how you are cuz haven't seen you.

*prayers and posithoughts barrelling toward you*
barb dwyer is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to barb dwyer For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:42 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
My mother probably lived with the same stuff you are living with, because my brother had many of the characteristics of your son. When she kicked him out, she said "God takes care of drunks, fools, and children."

I have to say, my brother had an amazing capacity for survival, despite his "handicaps." They DO GET BY! And their HP IS working for them!

Chicory, as a mother, I feel your pain, and I don't want to minimize the difficulty of doing what it will take to restore you to sanity. You have to make up your own mind as to how you will live your life.
But as I've told my own kids many times, don't make any decision just based on fear. Work through the fear and do it for a REAL reason.
Hugs back.


SoloMio,
thank you, for this. I believe this with all my heart, but my fear is holding me.
Your children are lucky, to have such a wise mom.

Work through the fear- that is very good advice.

actually, I have been trying to do just that. I have been reminding him, that he has not much time here. that he needs to be thinking of what he is going to do. of course, i know he wont, until he is on the street, but I have to keep reminding him, as much for me as for him.

he chalks it up to my "moods"," psychological torture", "mental abuse", etc.
I told him today that I should have been in this mood long before now.

it is so hard not to take the horrid things he says personally. i am guessing it is his own fear that makes him talk that way. trying to force me to give in.

I am trying hard to keep thinking of the positives of letting go. for both of us.

thanks so much again, SoloMio. it means a lot.
hugs
chicory
chicory is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (05-21-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), Kassie2 (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:47 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
Originally Posted by barb dwyer View Post
was wondering how you are cuz haven't seen you.

*prayers and posithoughts barrelling toward you*
Thanks Barb,
I am gonna focus on feeling the posithoughts and believing in the prayers!
I have been around, mostly lurking and reading.
Thank God for this forum, and the good folks here. I truly dont know what I would be doing now, if I did not have this place to learn from. I may not be putting it into action yet, but i am getting courage, and sometimes feel hopeful

hugs
chicory is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
barb dwyer (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), TakingCharge999 (05-15-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 08:54 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
same planet...different world
 
barb dwyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,944
Blog Entries: 7
I am with you on that sentiment for sure.
these people have save me more times than I can count!

*Tsunami of Soothe* roaring your way lol
barb dwyer is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to barb dwyer For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), TakingCharge999 (05-15-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 10:57 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
ItsmeAlice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Knowing the path and walking the path are two different things entirely.
Does it mean we have failed because we haven't made the leap yet, absolutely not.
I read in your post that you know what you need to do, and that's big. You are not denying a problem. You are not hiding from it. You have in fact turned to face what scares you most in turning him out and letting him go. You just have not yet made your leap to shut the door.

Have faith. You can't conquer this fear if you run from it. Keep standing and facing it. Keep working it through and accepting the reality. The courage will come. Sometimes it is out of sheer desperation that we finally make the leap and go where we have feared to tread.

Alice
ItsmeAlice is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ItsmeAlice For This Useful Post:
bookwyrm (05-13-2011), chicory (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-16-2011), LS2 (05-16-2011), StarCat (05-13-2011), TakingCharge999 (05-15-2011), tjp613 (05-16-2011), wanttobehealthy (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 11:06 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Community Greeter
 
Impurrfect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,174
(((Chicory))) sending lots and lots of hugs and prayers your way. The old saying about putting the oxygen mask on YOURSELF before anyone else comes to mind. You can't "fix" him and the situation is harming YOU.

I know no parent wants to put their loved ones out on the street, and I don't have the mental issues your son does, but it took me, being on the streets, to get where I am today.

I can't promise you he'll get help, that it won't be hard on him, but I can promise you that we can learn that it is a gift we are giving them...the dignity to figure things out on their own, to stop being that "cushion" to fall back on, to give them opportunities to change...or not change.

I know it's hard, though I haven't been in the exact same position, but I also think of my uncle. He was a heroin addict and bipolar. It took him a LONG time before he finally decided he'd had enough, but he survived, got help, and is a totally different person today. I've always loved him, and because he lives in CA, haven't seen him in years, other than a short visit last year. Today? He is not only my uncle, but he's my friend. He's helping out my g'ma financially and is a wonderful companion to her (she's 94).

As long as they are breathing, I believe there is hope. We have no control of their future...that is up to them, but we DO have to take care of ourselves.

Love, hugs, and prayers,

Amy
Impurrfect is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Impurrfect For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-13-2011), dbh (05-15-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 11:58 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
blueblooms14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new state
Posts: 137
Hugs, ((((chicory)))). I had to do this "for" my DD20 (and myself, and DD24, and the rest of the family). It is so incredibly hard. We're all still working it through two years later, but have made progress- ups and downs but overall progress. Sending you strength and love and prayers.
blueblooms14 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to blueblooms14 For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), tjp613 (05-16-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 05:06 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Hi Chicory,

I was reading and a thought occurred to me so I will share... my son went through a difficult period also... I sat him down and talked... he had little to say except that he wanted things to get better...

I had many talks about what he was going to do... the steps it takes to get there... and suggested time lines... all of which he was agreeable to...

When I discovered he lied to me... he apologized and agreed to counseling. Nothing changed. We talked again and my gut said "he is comfortable here with me and therefore has no motivation to change". So I gave myself time to consider what I was about to do.

My son is a good kid basically - but I recognized as much as I wanted to support him - he was too comfortable to take responsibility on his own - so I made arrangements for him to live with someone else. Talked it over with everyone. Moving day came, someone else making all the arrangements and he is not packed! We all chipped in and packed him up - it took all day but we did that. He did not unpack at this new place for a long time. We did not communicate much.

But I had decided that he needed to figure out how to live on his own. And he did! That was two years ago - today he works two jobs -makes a nice living on his own terms -and he is happy at what he is doing. He is helping me out now when needed.

The point is this... I listened to my gut - I grieved the separation and I felt the guilt... and then he did what was needed! I wondered what would have happened if I did not listen to my gut? You give them what they need to grow up and survive... they either do it or not... but they can't begin to know what is possible if we keep doing it for them. If my son had not been able to make it I was prepared to see that and then take him back. I did tell him that I would be there for him and he never asked for a thing. Our situations are different no doubt but what I wanted to share is that we don't really know what they can do if we don't let go... I did a lot and saw no results until I let go. He could've sank as much as he succeeded and I just prepared myself to cope either way.

IDK if this helps, but appreciate your ability to be honest and to ask for help. We all do what we can, in our own time, and we have choices to follow or consequences to allow. Whatever we choose, it can be ok if we trust our HP and if we slip, it will still work out - it just might take longer. You can make mistakes and still be ok.

Hugs to you.
Kassie2 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kassie2 For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-13-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), StarCat (05-13-2011), tjp613 (05-16-2011), wicked (05-16-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 09:20 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
Thank you all , so much, really, you are an awesome bunch of people. It feels so good to have your support. I was so afraid to post, since I had not acted on what so many have kindly taken the time to share with me. I felt like a failure.
But your kind encouragement has brought a lump to my throat. Thank you for being here.

I read and reread all of your wonderful posts. I focused to find the common thing that may be a key. I came up with this - He does not know what is possible or what he is capable of . I am keeping him from learning to be able to depend on his self. That makes me just sick. What a gift it is, when we know how to find our way. and when we can count on our own strength to get us by.
That is no small thing. It is everything.

Heaven forgive me, for taking that away from him. It surely was not intentional, as my fears seem to keep me prisoner.

Sometimes I day dream, and I do it intentionally lately, that he is on his own, and struggles, but makes some progress and feels so good about it. And I have my little home back, can put up my oil painting again, in the spare bedroom. I can do my arobics again, without worrying about anyone seeing. And I can sit out on my little porch at night, and think about my son, who is beginning to become one with the world, instead of hiding from it. i keep thinking of the possiblities, to keep focused on doing this for his and my benefit.
I feel so very dysfunctional lately, and our relationship has deteriorated so very much. I am sure we are both getting sicker. We are at each others throats much of the time, and that is so wrong, it hurts so much.

your posts give me hope. you are all special.

hugs
chicory
chicory is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
dbh (05-15-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), ItsmeAlice (05-14-2011), Kassie2 (05-14-2011), StarCat (05-13-2011), tjp613 (05-16-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 09:42 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Community Greeter
 
Freedom1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,181
Chicory, I've heard it said that courage isn't an absence of fear. It's facing the fear, and doing the next right thing in spite of the fear.

I have felt fear many times in my recovery over the years. I have made decisions based on fear, and that ultimately blew up in my face.

But you know what? I learned from those times.

You're not on a time table dear, none of us are.

I just know God's got some really big hands, and when I find myself afraid, I place all that fear smack dab in the middle of his hands.

Gentle hugs to you on the Kansas winds.
Freedom1990 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Freedom1990 For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-14-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011), StarCat (05-13-2011)
Old 05-13-2011, 10:29 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
kittykitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
Blog Entries: 1
Chickory,
A good friend of mine told me the other day what fear means:
False
Expectations
Appearing
Real

Truth is, you won't know what will happen to him when you turn him out until you open the gate and take the halter off. He'll find his way, the way his HP has already planned for him. What that path entails is a mystery to all of us. Only God knows, and He ain't telling.

When you're ready, you're ready... try not to beat yourself up too much. I just want what's best for you, and want you to be happy. Keep coming back, we're always here for you!
kittykitty is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kittykitty For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-14-2011), dbh (05-15-2011), Impurrfect (05-13-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 01:23 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
dbh
Member
 
dbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 456
Dear Chickory:

Thinking of you and your son and sending positive thoughts your way.

I can only imagine how difficult this must be. For years, I struggled with not knowing what to do in order to help my brother. As I mentioned in a previous post, he's not an addict but struggles with the affects of growing up in a dysfunctional home and also has a mental illness.

For the longest time, I truly felt like it was my responsibility to SAVE him and I also sometimes felt that I was the ONLY person who could help him. Things didn't start to click for me until I started my recovery work.

When I was truly able to look at my family of origin for what it was, a dysfunctional family system that was keeping all of us locked in unhealthy patterns, I started to realize that I was probably one of the LAST people who could help him. I was able to detach from him with love because I truly believed that how I was treating him (how our whole family was treating him) was making him sicker not stronger. Detaching was no longer something that I should do, it was the only thing I could do if I wanted him to heal. I sort of thought of my family as being on a boat. If we all stayed in the boat together it was surely going down. The only chance any of us have at getting better is by jumping out of the boat.

A family system doesn't automatically get healthy when one person leaves. I became the scape goat for awhile, they were content with the way things were and didn't understand why I wanted change.

I'm at the point right now where I'm learning to respect everyone's choice to live the life that they want. I'm still trying to define me and figure out what makes me happy (at the age of 48!), so I'm in no position to tell someone else what they should do with their life.

My brother is currently estranged from the entire family. I haven't heard from him in months and I'm hoping that this means he's taking responsibility for his own life. I have to also accept that the life that he choses may not be the life that I would chose for him, but again it's not up to me to decide. I also pray a lot.

I found "The Soloist" to be a moving film about accepting the things you can and can not change when it comes to extreme mental illnesses.

Thank you for letting me share.

db
dbh is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dbh For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-16-2011), Impurrfect (05-16-2011), kittykitty (05-15-2011), tjp613 (05-21-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 02:35 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
I'm no angel!
 
dollydo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
I am sorry that you continue to struggle with making a decision that would set both you and your son free....free to live your own lives....as functioning adults.

Perhaps it is time for you to turn your dreams into reality.

You hold the key to your future in the palm of your hand, it is up to you to unlock the door and move forward, as for your son, until you allow him to have a key, he has no future, no chance.

As with everyone else, I wish you peace and happiness.
dollydo is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dollydo For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-16-2011), Impurrfect (05-16-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 03:27 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
A jug fills drop by drop
 
TakingCharge999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,783
I am sending you hugs and prayers chicory.
TakingCharge999 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TakingCharge999 For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-16-2011), Impurrfect (05-16-2011)
Old 05-16-2011, 07:47 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
Originally Posted by dollydo View Post
I am sorry that you continue to struggle with making a decision that would set both you and your son free....free to live your own lives....as functioning adults.

Perhaps it is time for you to turn your dreams into reality.

You hold the key to your future in the palm of your hand, it is up to you to unlock the door and move forward, as for your son, until you allow him to have a key, he has no future, no chance.

As with everyone else, I wish you peace and happiness.
You know Dollydo, I agree with you , that it is time, and also agree that I have the key to my future.

But, does not my son have a key, but he does not want to use it? I dont have to give him a key to his future, I cant do that. He is choosing to blind his self to his options. He is trying to find work, but I feel that he is taking me for granted and using me to a large degree. does not have to work, no real emergency. does not have to take whatever he can find, to survive. and that is wrong. that is what is getting me to wake up, the plain unfairness of his taking advantage of me and my weakness.

I guess what I can do is show him the door. I guess that is what you mean by his "key". Then he will have much more incentive to wake up his brain, and find his own way. I dont know how that will work, as living in a shelter wont give you any self confidence, but getting out of one would , I suppose.

I dont believe I am holding him here. I think we talked about this before. But I am supplying free rent and that is keeping him stuck. He fears he cant do it his self, and stays where the free stuff is. he does not say that his self, but I feel it. he is kind of holding me prisoner, by my emotions. i am stuck feeling i have to do more for him than he really needs anyone to. it is so hard to see through the fog of emotions I am in most of the time.

kind of like the little cat I feed outside. but that little cat really has no other options, except to scavenge somewhere else. so I feed him. if he has a home, they dont want him. but if he did, would he find his way home if i was feeding him? cant stand to see hunger, in a helpless animal. but son is not helpless! and the cat is innocent.

thanks for the support, I do appreciate it ,
hugs
chicory
chicory is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (05-16-2011)
Old 05-17-2011, 01:33 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,047
Every time I read one of your posts Anvil...

...I become more of a fan. I'm proud we both live in the Pacific Northwest as if that actually means anything.

This was a brilliant, illustrative post and I dig your writing style. Chicory and the rest of us were lucky to read it.

I wish I could get AW to call me Hercules. Or Stallion... Stallion would work too. What about Thor? I could handle Thor. I don't know that I could crush rocks, but I can open things, lift heavy objects, and fix **** too. Does that get me in the Hercules club?

Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranoak



Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
chicory....often helplessness can become a modus operandi....why? because it often works! i'll flounder and flail around here long enough getting absolutely nowhere and somebody will be along shortly to bail me out. i'll lose stuff, misplace stuff, forget stuff, and the caped crusader will swoop in and "rescue" me. i'll appear to not have a clue on how to manage my own affairs, and somebody else will step in and manage them for me.

that's a hard habit to break.....on both sides!!!

i don't know if it helps but maybe think of it like the Pickle Jar. if my husband is around, and if after a twist attempt or two i can't OPEN the pickle jar, i simply find him, hand him the jar, and Hercules turns the lid til it makes that little pop when the seal is broken and hands it back to me. usually without taking his eyes off the game, or ESPN or whatever he's watching on TV.

now if he is NOT there...i have some choices to make:


1) take the handle end of the butter knife and tap around the edge
2) gently whack the lid on the counter
3) grunt, groan, cuss and try to get the damn thing open
4) try my left hand
5) skip the pickles

if you were to be a fly on the wall watching me wrestle with the pickle jar, you'd very much want to try and HELP me. i don't have the proper hand strength or grip or whatever. however, if you leave me be, chances are up the 90th percentile that i will succeed!!! it just won't look super graceful!!! and certainly not as easy as Hercules makes it look! (i swear the man can crush cement with his hands).

maybe the way your son does things won't LOOK like he's being very successful, and won't look at all the way it would if YOU did it. but see it's not your stuff. it's HIS stuff and it will have his special modus operandi stamped on it.
Cyranoak is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cyranoak For This Useful Post:
chicory (05-17-2011), Chino (05-21-2011), MayaandMe (05-18-2011)
Old 05-18-2011, 04:39 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
chicory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,817
Blog Entries: 1
Cyranoak,
I so agree-
She bonked me on the head a few times , a while back, but I have learned a bit since then. and have found out what a hard head I have. sometimes a good bonk brings a halt to the "codie-go-round" -lol- even if only temporarily, it might let in something you need.


hugs,
chicory
chicory is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chicory For This Useful Post:
Cyranoak (05-18-2011), wicked (05-18-2011)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:40 AM.