Codependent No More, or...?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Florence 
My confusion and defensiveness -- and I apologize for getting snippy -- is because the "he's a loser! worthless!" advice doesn't apply, and because the codependency literature doesn't speak to me. There's a lot of What Not To Do advice out there, but not a lot of guidelines on what *to* do, and I find that incredibly frustrating.
When someone asks "do you consider drinking and draining the bank account trying?" You interpret that to mean he's a loser. Maybe, maybe not, but the point is--is this the kind of behavior that's acceptable to you in a partner? If so, then carry on.
As far as codependent literature saying what not to do, but failing to specify what to do, I again see this as interpretation. Most of the literature I've read says step back from the addict, stay on your own side of the street, listen to the actions rather than the words, put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror, etc. These are all things YOU can do, but if your looking for suggestions of what to do FOR HIM, you will probably be disappointed.
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by Florence
So I don't know, it's not clear cut, and I guess I had this picture in my mind of what alcoholism looks like, and it's uber-dramatic with DUIs and arrests and abuse and blah, and I also had this picture in my mind of what the spouse looks/feels like, and I'm not experiencing that either. .
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Maybe the perspective
"Do I want this for the rest of my life"
is more accurate.
That places the decision making
back on the person who needs to be making it.
Because the deeds of another
should not be determinate of the rest of anyone's life.
Only our own deeds determine that.
But when we're hooked into the drama
we don't realize
we aren't making our own decisions
we're just making adjustments.
The truth will truly set us free
bit first it's going to really **** us off.
That's how we know it's the truth.
"Do I want this for the rest of my life"
is more accurate.
That places the decision making
back on the person who needs to be making it.
Because the deeds of another
should not be determinate of the rest of anyone's life.
Only our own deeds determine that.
But when we're hooked into the drama
we don't realize
we aren't making our own decisions
we're just making adjustments.
The truth will truly set us free
bit first it's going to really **** us off.
That's how we know it's the truth.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
Maybe the perspective
"Do I want this for the rest of my life"
is more accurate.
"Do I want this for the rest of my life"
is more accurate.
See, that was easy, right? *cough*
Based on several addiction resources, I've heard it said that one year sober is probably the best benchmark they have for making it, so I've had that in my head as the goal. I'm still not certain that that's a reality, but I've got maybe a year in me before I get fed up with it, and that's WITH the momentum he's had in early recovery.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I am a double winner
a recovering alcoholic
and I can attest to the roller coaster that first year is.
Everyone anywhere NEAR me
got sucked in and dragged at least a little ways down the track.
there's no rule that says
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
some people manage it better
in separate domiciles during that time
and I've seen the whole 'halfway house' setup
work for a few.
This will be YOUR first year of recovery as well.
like my friend Betty Davis used to say -
"buckle your seatbelts... it's going to be a bumpy ride."
What we focus on here in F&F
is what do we need to do
to keep our OWN train on the track
and sometimes it's
where the heck did I leave my own track anyhow?
So it's not about what we can to do keep them stopped.
It's about where did *I* go in all this
and how do I get *me* back.
When did whatever he does change my entire world.
And we try to lend support
while we find that place again.
Sometimes it works out that it can't be done
with two trains under the same roof.
a recovering alcoholic
and I can attest to the roller coaster that first year is.
Everyone anywhere NEAR me
got sucked in and dragged at least a little ways down the track.
there's no rule that says
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
some people manage it better
in separate domiciles during that time
and I've seen the whole 'halfway house' setup
work for a few.
This will be YOUR first year of recovery as well.
like my friend Betty Davis used to say -
"buckle your seatbelts... it's going to be a bumpy ride."
What we focus on here in F&F
is what do we need to do
to keep our OWN train on the track
and sometimes it's
where the heck did I leave my own track anyhow?
So it's not about what we can to do keep them stopped.
It's about where did *I* go in all this
and how do I get *me* back.
When did whatever he does change my entire world.
And we try to lend support
while we find that place again.
Sometimes it works out that it can't be done
with two trains under the same roof.
I Finally Love My Life!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 648
My 2 cents on recognizing and identifying codependency.
I can only speak from my experiencing recovering from it.
For me, codependence is addiction to controlling people and situations. I didn't become this way due to XABF as all my relationships were codependent (friendships, coworkerships, familial relationships). Most of my friends needed fixing or came from emotionally unavailable backgrounds or abusive homes. I would be the work martyr who would work 14 hrs a day, never speak up and then secretly steam in silence when I wouldn't get recognized. In my family I held myself responsible to make sure my parents were happy even though they can't stand each other - but I was never allowed to bring this up.
The sickest thing is that I was obviously getting something out of it (though I would have vehemently denied it at the time) as I kept doing it. It was familiar to me. It was comfortable because it was familiar. These days, it's neither.
Being able to spot codependency before I had a handle on recovering from it is like trying to describe colour to someone who has never been able to see.
Before I was able to recover from it, I would denial my way into believing I did terribly codependent things for non-codependent reasons. I have done enough work over the years to realize the motivation behind my behaviour will "give away" its true intent if I am willing to honestly look at myself.
Being honest was also a challenge. I wasn't waking up and saying, "oh I see the sky is blue but I'm going to say red." My dishonesty resided where I would wake up, see a red sky and say it was red, believe with all my heart it was red...but the sky was actually blue. Denial is the worst type of lie in my book. Recovering from it was waking up and seeing the world as it actually is for the first time.
Speaking of honest reflection, I give special attention to things that p1ss me off - as those things hold great importance for me and are typically things I'm in denial about that need addressing.
Some folks here have replied to some of my posts in the past that left me fuming - to those of you who did...thank you! I get it
I can only speak from my experiencing recovering from it.
For me, codependence is addiction to controlling people and situations. I didn't become this way due to XABF as all my relationships were codependent (friendships, coworkerships, familial relationships). Most of my friends needed fixing or came from emotionally unavailable backgrounds or abusive homes. I would be the work martyr who would work 14 hrs a day, never speak up and then secretly steam in silence when I wouldn't get recognized. In my family I held myself responsible to make sure my parents were happy even though they can't stand each other - but I was never allowed to bring this up.
The sickest thing is that I was obviously getting something out of it (though I would have vehemently denied it at the time) as I kept doing it. It was familiar to me. It was comfortable because it was familiar. These days, it's neither.
Being able to spot codependency before I had a handle on recovering from it is like trying to describe colour to someone who has never been able to see.
Before I was able to recover from it, I would denial my way into believing I did terribly codependent things for non-codependent reasons. I have done enough work over the years to realize the motivation behind my behaviour will "give away" its true intent if I am willing to honestly look at myself.
Being honest was also a challenge. I wasn't waking up and saying, "oh I see the sky is blue but I'm going to say red." My dishonesty resided where I would wake up, see a red sky and say it was red, believe with all my heart it was red...but the sky was actually blue. Denial is the worst type of lie in my book. Recovering from it was waking up and seeing the world as it actually is for the first time.
Speaking of honest reflection, I give special attention to things that p1ss me off - as those things hold great importance for me and are typically things I'm in denial about that need addressing.
Some folks here have replied to some of my posts in the past that left me fuming - to those of you who did...thank you! I get it
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
I stood firm, telling him that I was unwilling to let him back in the house without a plan to a) stay sober or b) get employment.
i'm wondering where AH is living now? is he homeless? with you? with his parents?
as for the parents in denial, a few weeks having him stay with them might go a long way to having them understand your position.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
there's no rule that says
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
Its as if you have danced tango all this time and now you want to dance salsa... but you are still onstage dancing tango... maybe you CAN learn salsa...but the easiest thing would be to
1 stop dancing tango,
2 go buy salsa CDs and salsa attire
3 go to a salsa teacher, learn some steps
4 see if the other person knows the new salsa steps
5 if he doesn't, get a partner that knows them.
6 or go back to the old tango
BTW I just bought a new salsa CD and I am a happy woman while driving
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Originally Posted by LuvInDaisy
.
Never the less, when one of my daughters call and ask me for money...there I go
down to the w-mart standing in line sending moola....
Never the less, when one of my daughters call and ask me for money...there I go
down to the w-mart standing in line sending moola....
Originally Posted by LuvInDaisy
They don't always call me for money. They call me just to talk to me
or about whatever is going in thier lives or just to chit, chat. I'm very grateful that
my girls will reach out to me and tell me everything without afriad of being judged
or condemn.
or about whatever is going in thier lives or just to chit, chat. I'm very grateful that
my girls will reach out to me and tell me everything without afriad of being judged
or condemn.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
I am a double winner
a recovering alcoholic
and I can attest to the roller coaster that first year is.
Everyone anywhere NEAR me
got sucked in and dragged at least a little ways down the track.
there's no rule that says
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
some people manage it better
in separate domiciles during that time
and I've seen the whole 'halfway house' setup
work for a few.
This will be YOUR first year of recovery as well.
like my friend Betty Davis used to say -
"buckle your seatbelts... it's going to be a bumpy ride."
What we focus on here in F&F
is what do we need to do
to keep our OWN train on the track
and sometimes it's
where the heck did I leave my own track anyhow?
So it's not about what we can to do keep them stopped.
It's about where did *I* go in all this
and how do I get *me* back.
When did whatever he does change my entire world.
And we try to lend support
while we find that place again.
Sometimes it works out that it can't be done
with two trains under the same roof.
a recovering alcoholic
and I can attest to the roller coaster that first year is.
Everyone anywhere NEAR me
got sucked in and dragged at least a little ways down the track.
there's no rule that says
anyone has to go through that first year
joined at the hip with anyone else.
some people manage it better
in separate domiciles during that time
and I've seen the whole 'halfway house' setup
work for a few.
This will be YOUR first year of recovery as well.
like my friend Betty Davis used to say -
"buckle your seatbelts... it's going to be a bumpy ride."
What we focus on here in F&F
is what do we need to do
to keep our OWN train on the track
and sometimes it's
where the heck did I leave my own track anyhow?
So it's not about what we can to do keep them stopped.
It's about where did *I* go in all this
and how do I get *me* back.
When did whatever he does change my entire world.
And we try to lend support
while we find that place again.
Sometimes it works out that it can't be done
with two trains under the same roof.
This is my boundary. And I got more flak for it again on Monday. I ruined any chance to "have a marriage" by moving out and buying my own house. Whatever. So its ruined. Go away and leave me alone, then.
This is a roller coaster full of unexpected surprises of the anger and denial still right below the facade of Mr. Recovery. I can not live with that nor should my daughters have to live with that everyday. I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I am on the right track for me now, not him. He has to go find his own track. If our tracks coincide some day in the future, well, we can talk then.
Stand firm on your boundaries. That is the only way anything changes.
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