How is your A relationship oppressing you? MAJOR realization!
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
How is your A relationship oppressing you? MAJOR realization!
This is long. Read it if you have the time, dont worry otherwise. This is me working this out. and it is big stuff for me. Maybe some of you know what Im talking about...
I was talking to an old friend yesterday.
She is one who has stuck by me, through thick and thin, known her for 20 years. I have been with RAH for 10 going on 11.
We were discussing my life, the turn it has taken, regret over lost opportunities, etc.
She was pointing out how the pattern has been so clear from the outside..
I was in a creative group, from my early 20s. There was a toxic, tyrannical situation there with a controlling and passive aggressive leader, who squashed a lot of my input out of jealousy, etc.
I was scapegoated by him.
My friend is married to one of the members of that group, and she knows everything. I should point out that said tyrannical coworker and I were a couple way back in the beginning, we were 21. I broke up with him, sfter less than a year, and he never forgave me.
It was amazing to me to hear the way that she sees and remembers it all, and that she claims most people also see it that way:
I was a strong female, with a clear creative intent, and a strong presence. I did not back down, or play into denial or games. THis enraged the group leader, who set about making things very hard for me until I left/ was forced out in exasperation.
As she sees it, it went on for so long that I started to see things the way he portrayed them, and abandoned my own clear view of dynamics, and situations. I was branded a difficult b*tch, and selfish, and after many years, I began to focus on avoiding being seen in that light instead of staying true to my truth, my beliefs.
When I got involved with my RAH, he set immediately about becoming best friends forever with this man I worked with. When we had a child, I was at home with son, while AH and coworker were out drinking, coworker was enabler #1, buying the rounds, taking AH on trips and tours out of town with him.
It was so unsafe and I was forced to leave the group eventually, because being a mom had restricted my ability to take part in our work as a band. My AH was useless, and would not keep son while I worked, Controlling coworker knew this, taunted me about this..."Why dont you just have your significant other handle the coparenting like the rest of us did when we had kids?" (evil smirk...)
My AH and controlling bandmate went out every night, while we were not on tour, drinking...and I brought son on tour with us, part time, because AH was a mess...had to hire a nanny, to help, 6 month old on bus...Then it became too much, son would go to MIL, I would work a week, have to fly home and miss some shows, then Coworker cited this as grounds for my leaving.
It was an intolerably unfair dynamic, and it was orchestrated. I was a full partner in the group, had my rights, and the rest of the band were too frightened of him to stand up. (note:They (including tyrant) all started their families earlier than I did, I was a late mom...When they had young children, they all brought them out on tour with us.)
Ultimately, I lost enough work, and missed enough shows that when he started his campaign to sort of democratically oust me, I had very little leg left to stand on. All the while AH would bask in the sunshine that coworker was blowing up his a**. He revelled in being fed such narcissitic attention from a famous musician.
My friend pointed out it was at this time, when my old bandmate/nemesis(lol), and my AH became cohorts, that my strength began to erode, that I started to buy what they were selling. The two of them driving around the country, getting loaded, playing music, and sleeping around...And they were tormenting me while I was at home with my son.
AH would confide in coworker about our personal issues, and coworker would lay it on, "Oh, I know, she is tough to deal with, and she is a b*tch..." Anytime we would argue, AH now had ammunition galore, some of which was wholly fictional, some was about me/him and our work dynamic at play.
It was terrible. At one point, after I had begun to lose shows over AHs inability to take up the parenting, I confronted him, saying that coworker was not a friend of our family or our son. And that it was not helpful for AH to be friends with him, that coworker was playing on the dynamic and creating stress and upheaval between us, trying to limit my income ability...
He finally began to refrain from taking coworkers calls when I asked him if he was going to get dry and start to work, when I lose my job over their games.
I also approached coworker, who, still had feelings for me, and I told him that his toxic interplay was costing me my livlihood, and that I was suffering abuse from AH, and that his fueling of the fire was dark and mean. He also agreed to refrain from the friendship, under the guise of no longer wanting to enable such a terrible alcoholic.
My friend reminded me how unfair the power play was, that she and many others were shocked that I sat by and let it occur, that they felt helpless, and that they wondered where my strong part went...
She just reminded me that I was a free flowing person, that I used to go get life! That I had created so many things, and that since AH came into the picture, at first I was an enabler, then I was a nurse, then I was focused on getting him help.
She asked me, "what will you do if an opportunity to play comes your way? Will an opportunity come your way with him in your life? Probably not."
I thought about this, and I began to cry. So hard.
I realize, while he was an active alcoholic I got more and more tethered to his sickness, managing and dodging and picking up slack...I did not take up many opportunities because he was ill, absent,and in this way he was controlling.
He was abusive in a direct way, back then, and now that he is sober, and not in active recovery, I am still being affected by his oppressive fear of my power.
My power. as a person, as a woman, as an artist, and musician.
I wonder, What if I get an opportunity to go to a different city to work with a songwriter, or to write with a producer, or to have a gallery show?
I literally would think first about how his fears and anxieties and controlling nature would frighten me. HOw F'ed up is that!? That is REALLY F'ed up.
Some things I came to realize last few days:
--I am writing a book, and it is meant to be this honest, real non fiction story about navigating years of being in the public eye, relationships, being a woman and expressing myself, not using sexuality to get ahead...
But, I find myself shying away from writing about key timeframes, and key relationships, because my controlling, insecure, and anxiety stricken RAH is so jealous, that he even has fits over me talking to my first boyfriend who has remained a family friend, and who I dated for a year 10 years (!) before I even MET RAH. I am afraid of how he will react, of what I will have to endure if I write about a relationship. I am afraid that he will be abusive and obsessive and ridicule me. So thats one way that I SUPPRESS myself for his comfort.
---I have a number of songs that are ready for publishing/ cowriting. I dont travel anymore, rarely perform on stage. I have a good chance at selling some songs, but this means that I would need to go to a different city, stay for a few weeks, work with a number of producers and/or writers. And when I think of that, I get excited, and then this sense of doom creeps in. It is him, and his fears and his anxiety. And it is infecting my ability to LIVE MY LIFE!!!
---I could be playing shows right now, in my city, but he does not/cannot/will not take son for any amount of alone time. I would have to pay a sitter, but starting a band and working with musicians (professionally) is a time commitment, and it has to be a consisitent one. I get excited about the idea of that, then that same sense of doom comes over me....And I just have what I guess I would call avoidant response to it. I would rather NOT fulfill that than have to endure his crazy sh*t over it. My heart races, my entire body locks up. I want to go to bed, and not get up.
---When I had my art gallery show in January he threw such a long term drama scene, refused to come watch me "***** myself out to sell paintings" He threatened to show up drunk, accused me of sleeping with my dear old friend, who was also showing his art at the show. I could not have a beautiful night and enjoy the fruits of my work. And it was a lot of work. I was scared the whole time.
I do nothing, now, really. I stay home.
He is threatened by my interviewing for a jobby job.
If I dont answer my phone, for an hour or two, maybe Im busy, maybe napping, it has gotten to where he will call between 6-15 times, frantically texting, because he "thinks something bad has happened"
Bullsh*t. He is not feeling like he knows where I am. (this is a new thing, and is happening nore frequently) He does not even live with us!
He is having contol withdrawal. I told him it was excessive, and to please seek the help he said he was going to get after rehab, which was his main reason for going....so that he could address his mental health issues.
HOw did I get here?
WTF?
How did I become this shell of a person afraid to live a full life, stricken with an anxiety that does not even belong to me?
There is so much I should be doing.
I have been limited contact again for over a week, since he freaked about the job I went for.
I know this is a bad situation, so...you know. I have a son with him, and I am afraid of him. NOt in the way that I think he will come attack me, but I am definitely having avoidant behavior around just living my life the way I would if there was not this oppressive force hoovering up my joy, my trust of the flow of life, my excitement and thrill at taking chances, at living FULLY.
I just needed to write out my realizations around it.
My friend validated me so deeply, and she reminded me that I have been allowing men to keep me down for a long time. And she reminded me that I never was that selfish b*tch they painted me to be, but that they were/are firghtened little men.
I need to make a big change.
How are you being oppressed by the controlling addict in your life?
I was talking to an old friend yesterday.
She is one who has stuck by me, through thick and thin, known her for 20 years. I have been with RAH for 10 going on 11.
We were discussing my life, the turn it has taken, regret over lost opportunities, etc.
She was pointing out how the pattern has been so clear from the outside..
I was in a creative group, from my early 20s. There was a toxic, tyrannical situation there with a controlling and passive aggressive leader, who squashed a lot of my input out of jealousy, etc.
I was scapegoated by him.
My friend is married to one of the members of that group, and she knows everything. I should point out that said tyrannical coworker and I were a couple way back in the beginning, we were 21. I broke up with him, sfter less than a year, and he never forgave me.
It was amazing to me to hear the way that she sees and remembers it all, and that she claims most people also see it that way:
I was a strong female, with a clear creative intent, and a strong presence. I did not back down, or play into denial or games. THis enraged the group leader, who set about making things very hard for me until I left/ was forced out in exasperation.
As she sees it, it went on for so long that I started to see things the way he portrayed them, and abandoned my own clear view of dynamics, and situations. I was branded a difficult b*tch, and selfish, and after many years, I began to focus on avoiding being seen in that light instead of staying true to my truth, my beliefs.
When I got involved with my RAH, he set immediately about becoming best friends forever with this man I worked with. When we had a child, I was at home with son, while AH and coworker were out drinking, coworker was enabler #1, buying the rounds, taking AH on trips and tours out of town with him.
It was so unsafe and I was forced to leave the group eventually, because being a mom had restricted my ability to take part in our work as a band. My AH was useless, and would not keep son while I worked, Controlling coworker knew this, taunted me about this..."Why dont you just have your significant other handle the coparenting like the rest of us did when we had kids?" (evil smirk...)
My AH and controlling bandmate went out every night, while we were not on tour, drinking...and I brought son on tour with us, part time, because AH was a mess...had to hire a nanny, to help, 6 month old on bus...Then it became too much, son would go to MIL, I would work a week, have to fly home and miss some shows, then Coworker cited this as grounds for my leaving.
It was an intolerably unfair dynamic, and it was orchestrated. I was a full partner in the group, had my rights, and the rest of the band were too frightened of him to stand up. (note:They (including tyrant) all started their families earlier than I did, I was a late mom...When they had young children, they all brought them out on tour with us.)
Ultimately, I lost enough work, and missed enough shows that when he started his campaign to sort of democratically oust me, I had very little leg left to stand on. All the while AH would bask in the sunshine that coworker was blowing up his a**. He revelled in being fed such narcissitic attention from a famous musician.
My friend pointed out it was at this time, when my old bandmate/nemesis(lol), and my AH became cohorts, that my strength began to erode, that I started to buy what they were selling. The two of them driving around the country, getting loaded, playing music, and sleeping around...And they were tormenting me while I was at home with my son.
AH would confide in coworker about our personal issues, and coworker would lay it on, "Oh, I know, she is tough to deal with, and she is a b*tch..." Anytime we would argue, AH now had ammunition galore, some of which was wholly fictional, some was about me/him and our work dynamic at play.
It was terrible. At one point, after I had begun to lose shows over AHs inability to take up the parenting, I confronted him, saying that coworker was not a friend of our family or our son. And that it was not helpful for AH to be friends with him, that coworker was playing on the dynamic and creating stress and upheaval between us, trying to limit my income ability...
He finally began to refrain from taking coworkers calls when I asked him if he was going to get dry and start to work, when I lose my job over their games.
I also approached coworker, who, still had feelings for me, and I told him that his toxic interplay was costing me my livlihood, and that I was suffering abuse from AH, and that his fueling of the fire was dark and mean. He also agreed to refrain from the friendship, under the guise of no longer wanting to enable such a terrible alcoholic.
My friend reminded me how unfair the power play was, that she and many others were shocked that I sat by and let it occur, that they felt helpless, and that they wondered where my strong part went...
She just reminded me that I was a free flowing person, that I used to go get life! That I had created so many things, and that since AH came into the picture, at first I was an enabler, then I was a nurse, then I was focused on getting him help.
She asked me, "what will you do if an opportunity to play comes your way? Will an opportunity come your way with him in your life? Probably not."
I thought about this, and I began to cry. So hard.
I realize, while he was an active alcoholic I got more and more tethered to his sickness, managing and dodging and picking up slack...I did not take up many opportunities because he was ill, absent,and in this way he was controlling.
He was abusive in a direct way, back then, and now that he is sober, and not in active recovery, I am still being affected by his oppressive fear of my power.
My power. as a person, as a woman, as an artist, and musician.
I wonder, What if I get an opportunity to go to a different city to work with a songwriter, or to write with a producer, or to have a gallery show?
I literally would think first about how his fears and anxieties and controlling nature would frighten me. HOw F'ed up is that!? That is REALLY F'ed up.
Some things I came to realize last few days:
--I am writing a book, and it is meant to be this honest, real non fiction story about navigating years of being in the public eye, relationships, being a woman and expressing myself, not using sexuality to get ahead...
But, I find myself shying away from writing about key timeframes, and key relationships, because my controlling, insecure, and anxiety stricken RAH is so jealous, that he even has fits over me talking to my first boyfriend who has remained a family friend, and who I dated for a year 10 years (!) before I even MET RAH. I am afraid of how he will react, of what I will have to endure if I write about a relationship. I am afraid that he will be abusive and obsessive and ridicule me. So thats one way that I SUPPRESS myself for his comfort.
---I have a number of songs that are ready for publishing/ cowriting. I dont travel anymore, rarely perform on stage. I have a good chance at selling some songs, but this means that I would need to go to a different city, stay for a few weeks, work with a number of producers and/or writers. And when I think of that, I get excited, and then this sense of doom creeps in. It is him, and his fears and his anxiety. And it is infecting my ability to LIVE MY LIFE!!!
---I could be playing shows right now, in my city, but he does not/cannot/will not take son for any amount of alone time. I would have to pay a sitter, but starting a band and working with musicians (professionally) is a time commitment, and it has to be a consisitent one. I get excited about the idea of that, then that same sense of doom comes over me....And I just have what I guess I would call avoidant response to it. I would rather NOT fulfill that than have to endure his crazy sh*t over it. My heart races, my entire body locks up. I want to go to bed, and not get up.
---When I had my art gallery show in January he threw such a long term drama scene, refused to come watch me "***** myself out to sell paintings" He threatened to show up drunk, accused me of sleeping with my dear old friend, who was also showing his art at the show. I could not have a beautiful night and enjoy the fruits of my work. And it was a lot of work. I was scared the whole time.
I do nothing, now, really. I stay home.
He is threatened by my interviewing for a jobby job.
If I dont answer my phone, for an hour or two, maybe Im busy, maybe napping, it has gotten to where he will call between 6-15 times, frantically texting, because he "thinks something bad has happened"
Bullsh*t. He is not feeling like he knows where I am. (this is a new thing, and is happening nore frequently) He does not even live with us!
He is having contol withdrawal. I told him it was excessive, and to please seek the help he said he was going to get after rehab, which was his main reason for going....so that he could address his mental health issues.
HOw did I get here?
WTF?
How did I become this shell of a person afraid to live a full life, stricken with an anxiety that does not even belong to me?
There is so much I should be doing.
I have been limited contact again for over a week, since he freaked about the job I went for.
I know this is a bad situation, so...you know. I have a son with him, and I am afraid of him. NOt in the way that I think he will come attack me, but I am definitely having avoidant behavior around just living my life the way I would if there was not this oppressive force hoovering up my joy, my trust of the flow of life, my excitement and thrill at taking chances, at living FULLY.
I just needed to write out my realizations around it.
My friend validated me so deeply, and she reminded me that I have been allowing men to keep me down for a long time. And she reminded me that I never was that selfish b*tch they painted me to be, but that they were/are firghtened little men.
I need to make a big change.
How are you being oppressed by the controlling addict in your life?
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
While the details are different, Buffalo66, I identify completely with the emotions behind it.
I was an assertive woman who figured out how to get my job before I graduated, how to get them to pay for the remainder of my undergraduate degree and the entirety of my master's degree, and using the money from this job to pay off all my college loans before I even graduated. I had friends, hobbies, a good job, and a life that I enjoyed - and I let him take that all away from me, through his bullying, verbal abuse, and emotional insecurities.
I stopped going to church because the last time I went, he left me five nastygrams about why is my phone off, he thought he could rely on me, he needed a ride because he was getting his tires changed and he was bored, and where was I???
I stopped playing my instruments or spending time with friends because he was offended that I would do something without him.
I stopped saving money and got into debt instead, because I was constantly bailing him out after he decided to spend every cent he could squeeze on clothing, expensive dinners, hotels, and expensive gifts for me that I didn't need. And all the while he's demanding all my time at work, so of course my performance is suffering, and I'm so lucky I put in a great year of work before it got really bad or I am sure I would have lost my job. And as soon as I had a vacation day we had to take the day off, and rush all over the place, and spend more money we didn't have. And at home, I'd do all the chores, and he'd sit and read his paper and complain that I took too long to do everything and that his mother would have been done by now. Well, yeah, his mother is retired, she does this all day, not in addition to a full-time job!
Have you read the "Why Does He Do That?" thread?
XABF was never physically abusive, but he was very verbally and emotionally abusive, and I am feeling the same feelings I felt around XABF written into your post. You may find some clarity there.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-chapters.html
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
YEs, LTD, I believe it does go above and beyond alcoholic behavior, on BOtH of these mens parts...Does that mean that I am wayyyy sicker than JUST co dependent?
And I have been living in his fearful world, and I have been allowing it to control my life.
And what to do?
I will never be free of him? We share a child, with the responsiblity and the financial need I am now in.
I am angry at this realization. I am sad at myself, for losing my self.
It needs to end here, but how? I am in counseling, cannot seem to get to the bottom of the fear for me. What is the problem here?
We have talked about this before, LTD, my reluctance to believe that "someone can be that cold, or that mean, or that sick..."
What is my problem. HE is, He has been. I am just as sick?
I have done EMDR, I have removed him, then took him back, I will not accept that my fear is of my inablilty to do it alone. I have always been alone. Do I borrow money and move with no forwarding address? Dont have the money for that now, but....
It is nuts. The whole damn thing has been nuts.
And I have been living in his fearful world, and I have been allowing it to control my life.
And what to do?
I will never be free of him? We share a child, with the responsiblity and the financial need I am now in.
I am angry at this realization. I am sad at myself, for losing my self.
It needs to end here, but how? I am in counseling, cannot seem to get to the bottom of the fear for me. What is the problem here?
We have talked about this before, LTD, my reluctance to believe that "someone can be that cold, or that mean, or that sick..."
What is my problem. HE is, He has been. I am just as sick?
I have done EMDR, I have removed him, then took him back, I will not accept that my fear is of my inablilty to do it alone. I have always been alone. Do I borrow money and move with no forwarding address? Dont have the money for that now, but....
It is nuts. The whole damn thing has been nuts.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
YEs, LTD, I believe it does go above and beyond alcoholic behavior, on BOtH of these mens parts...Does that mean that I am wayyyy sicker than JUST co dependent?
I think it means letting go of the idea that sobriety will make him a good partner and father.
I understand being tied to him by a child, I have two children with a (now sober) A myself. Like yours, mine is not very interested in stepping up and being a parent. At first, that really pi$$ed me off. But, now that I've come to accept it, it's actually turned out to be a blessing. I don't have to arrange my life or my children's lives around him. We get on with it. We do what needs to be done without input or involvement from him. If he wants to involve himself, he has to make the arrangements, not me. One of the most freeing gifts I have given myself is to remove all expectations I ever had surrounding him being a parent to our children. It's sad, but it's based in reality, not my fantasy about him being a "good dad."
Being a single parent is hard, no doubt about that. But, not as hard as trying to arrange your life and priorities around someone who clearly does not have your best interests at heart.
L
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I did not experience that level of control from my xah so I fully admit I may be wayy off base with my thoughts.
I did not feel fully free of my xah until I no longer counted on him or needed him in my life. If I needed him, I was tethered to his decisions and actions. I could not fully 'let go' of my feelings and frustrations over his decisions when those decisions had such a profound impact on my life.
I was able to truly let got when I arranged my life so I was not financially responsible for his decisions, did not rely on him to parent, and could survive without his $$. I expect nothing from him. I do not tell him of my personal milestones etc. and do not invite him to acknowledge them in anyway. We are divorced so that part is easier for me I suppose. It does not matter if he understands. It does not matter if he thinks I'm sleeping with half the town or any of that. I don't need, ask, or except input into jobs, houses, or any other decision in my life.
It took a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice, and what feels like a monumental task of organization and planning to pull off single parenting with no co-parent and no family support. It doesn't always work perfectly but it works 110% better then trying to make it happen with an alcoholic.
ETA: LTD and I cross posted. She says That is certainly the truth for me and my posts here from a year ago show how much I struggled with that.
I did not feel fully free of my xah until I no longer counted on him or needed him in my life. If I needed him, I was tethered to his decisions and actions. I could not fully 'let go' of my feelings and frustrations over his decisions when those decisions had such a profound impact on my life.
I was able to truly let got when I arranged my life so I was not financially responsible for his decisions, did not rely on him to parent, and could survive without his $$. I expect nothing from him. I do not tell him of my personal milestones etc. and do not invite him to acknowledge them in anyway. We are divorced so that part is easier for me I suppose. It does not matter if he understands. It does not matter if he thinks I'm sleeping with half the town or any of that. I don't need, ask, or except input into jobs, houses, or any other decision in my life.
It took a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice, and what feels like a monumental task of organization and planning to pull off single parenting with no co-parent and no family support. It doesn't always work perfectly but it works 110% better then trying to make it happen with an alcoholic.
ETA: LTD and I cross posted. She says
If he wants to involve himself, he has to make the arrangements, not me. One of the most freeing gifts I have given myself is to remove all expectations I ever had surrounding him being a parent to our children.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 837
Buffalo66, I have been oppressed by my AH for 39 years of marriage. They are just so good at mind games it's hard to stay steady on your feet. Hopefully you will get out of this situation long before you're in it as long as myself. Do you have anyone besides RAH to turn too? My biggest regret for all of those yrs spent with him is that I put my kids through the same hell I went through.
Be kind to yourself and your son, there is always a way of escape.
Be kind to yourself and your son, there is always a way of escape.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Thanks Thumper - your post really resonated with me today. I have been working on setting up the very same thing...really it wasn't that hard... my kids are my own and my money has always been mine (we never had joint anything). But making that final step of letting go of all expectations is a hard one. I am still struggling with that one.
B66, your post reminded me of something my Dad said a few years back. He told me I would have trouble finding a man who could "handle" a woman like me - successful, independent, forthright, educated, etc. He said most men find that intimidating in a woman. We may be in 2011 but some societal expectations haven't changed much. He thinks I am an amazing woman, but he also acknowledges I intimidated him as a teenager, with my headstrong personality. He said, "you didn't out up with any BS from anyone, including me. You would not be controlled by anyone but yourself"
I go back to that conversation often. I try to temper that assertiveness so it doesn't become aggression. I've worked hard to find that fine line between my boundaries and respecting others. I know I have the tendency to be a steamroller and I work hard to tone that down. But give up who I am that has taken my far in life? Never.
I like me. I may not like the choices I have made in the past, or certain moments where I have behaved badly or said things I didn't mean or were just mean out of anger. But underneath it all - I like me. I like the woman I am. I thought I would find a man who appreciated a strong, independent woman who he didn't have to "worry" about or "take care of" all the time. I prided myself in thinking this was what my RAH wanted. He said it was. But in the end - I think it made him feel "not needed". But I also think the idea of "needing someone" escapes him anyway - thanks alcoholism - and his perspective of being needed will never match my perspective of needing.
What I hear in your post is that you are a talented woman who has a great opportunity at a very full and rich life. Take it. Don't wait. We are not getting any younger or any better looking here while we wait on the A's to get their crap together. Life is waiting.
B66, your post reminded me of something my Dad said a few years back. He told me I would have trouble finding a man who could "handle" a woman like me - successful, independent, forthright, educated, etc. He said most men find that intimidating in a woman. We may be in 2011 but some societal expectations haven't changed much. He thinks I am an amazing woman, but he also acknowledges I intimidated him as a teenager, with my headstrong personality. He said, "you didn't out up with any BS from anyone, including me. You would not be controlled by anyone but yourself"
I go back to that conversation often. I try to temper that assertiveness so it doesn't become aggression. I've worked hard to find that fine line between my boundaries and respecting others. I know I have the tendency to be a steamroller and I work hard to tone that down. But give up who I am that has taken my far in life? Never.
I like me. I may not like the choices I have made in the past, or certain moments where I have behaved badly or said things I didn't mean or were just mean out of anger. But underneath it all - I like me. I like the woman I am. I thought I would find a man who appreciated a strong, independent woman who he didn't have to "worry" about or "take care of" all the time. I prided myself in thinking this was what my RAH wanted. He said it was. But in the end - I think it made him feel "not needed". But I also think the idea of "needing someone" escapes him anyway - thanks alcoholism - and his perspective of being needed will never match my perspective of needing.
What I hear in your post is that you are a talented woman who has a great opportunity at a very full and rich life. Take it. Don't wait. We are not getting any younger or any better looking here while we wait on the A's to get their crap together. Life is waiting.
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Yes, Life is waiting!
And the waiting place is a most terrible place, as Dr.Seuss says.
I think ,y realization is another peel on an ongoing onion, because I have seen this, and known this, and gotten this stuff before.
But, I seem to have a mental block or a blind spot in some critical place, unknown to me.
Why? Why cant I get past this? I did remove him, and he is not in my day to day living space anymore, BUT HE IS STILL IN MY HEAD!
WHy? In taking responsibility for our lives and inventory of our choices we have to ask "what is my deficit?" I am a strong willed, clear and smart person, what is this glaring deficit?
And I am in counseling. I have "escaped" to certain degrees, but, always with a look back, and an extended hand to him, if he wants to try a different mode of operation...
Its the "give up" point. This is where I become frantic. Giving up on someone? Giving in to the idea that he is a lost cause, that I cannot help to facillitate a change.
Or, at the very least that I will "be there for him" when he wants to make better choices, to make strides, to stop controlling and abusing.
My blind spot seems to be around the idea of walking away cold, from someone who needs help to get healthy or clear. And what a trick of the mind this is, because it implies that I am some kind of force above RAHs higher power.
I need to go back to square one, because I feel like I have not really accepted that I have no control here. And why do I need that control over him? I abandoned control over my own life and my own choices to "rescue"?, to stay in limbo?
Why? Why do I do that?
Easier to look at his defiicits than to face mine, to do the work of getting on with my own life, taking control of my own destiny?
I am really disappointed in myself, here, and I feel like I have not cme very far at all...I know I have, but, man... I just saw some things last few days that make me feel like I am not a strong person at all, just a willing victim.
And the waiting place is a most terrible place, as Dr.Seuss says.
I think ,y realization is another peel on an ongoing onion, because I have seen this, and known this, and gotten this stuff before.
But, I seem to have a mental block or a blind spot in some critical place, unknown to me.
Why? Why cant I get past this? I did remove him, and he is not in my day to day living space anymore, BUT HE IS STILL IN MY HEAD!
WHy? In taking responsibility for our lives and inventory of our choices we have to ask "what is my deficit?" I am a strong willed, clear and smart person, what is this glaring deficit?
And I am in counseling. I have "escaped" to certain degrees, but, always with a look back, and an extended hand to him, if he wants to try a different mode of operation...
Its the "give up" point. This is where I become frantic. Giving up on someone? Giving in to the idea that he is a lost cause, that I cannot help to facillitate a change.
Or, at the very least that I will "be there for him" when he wants to make better choices, to make strides, to stop controlling and abusing.
My blind spot seems to be around the idea of walking away cold, from someone who needs help to get healthy or clear. And what a trick of the mind this is, because it implies that I am some kind of force above RAHs higher power.
I need to go back to square one, because I feel like I have not really accepted that I have no control here. And why do I need that control over him? I abandoned control over my own life and my own choices to "rescue"?, to stay in limbo?
Why? Why do I do that?
Easier to look at his defiicits than to face mine, to do the work of getting on with my own life, taking control of my own destiny?
I am really disappointed in myself, here, and I feel like I have not cme very far at all...I know I have, but, man... I just saw some things last few days that make me feel like I am not a strong person at all, just a willing victim.
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Buffalo66 - I can totally relate to this. In my own relationship I've also given up:
1. career opportunities - because I knew he would not be supportive by jumping in to help out with the kids or housework, or anything else. Also because I knew he'd criticize and undermine me.
2. friendships - he seems jealous and lonely when I do things on my own. I haven't made any friends in a long time and even now feel afraid to make my own plans.
3. My confidence and joyful spirit - because I never know what the mood is going to be like, I'm always on edge. Always watchful.
I hate this. I am working on me now and going to alanon; I hope it helps me to rediscover the strength I used to have.
1. career opportunities - because I knew he would not be supportive by jumping in to help out with the kids or housework, or anything else. Also because I knew he'd criticize and undermine me.
2. friendships - he seems jealous and lonely when I do things on my own. I haven't made any friends in a long time and even now feel afraid to make my own plans.
3. My confidence and joyful spirit - because I never know what the mood is going to be like, I'm always on edge. Always watchful.
I hate this. I am working on me now and going to alanon; I hope it helps me to rediscover the strength I used to have.
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I'm sorry you are having a rough time with this. You have made amazing strides.
It is just my opinion that if you take some significant time of no contact (or limit contact to emails regarding co-parenting only and be really strict with that) that you will be able to work through this stuff.
That is not giving up. That is taking 6 months to get your thoughts clear and together - and for him to do the same.
You are no longer living together but your lives still seem to be very entangled with the daily phone calls, spending occasional time together with child, how you interact with each others personal affairs etc. Those are all fair enough - you aren't even divorced - but it was my experience that I needed the rigid no contact to clear the fog. He emailed all kinds of terrible things but I responded only to child stuff. I think I'd still be going in circles with him, and in my head, if I had not done the rigid no contact - divorce or no divorce.
I do not believe that 6mos of no contact automatically means divorce or giving up. It is simply giving you a chance to think.
I can see and interact with my ex now without the confusion. The confusion is the worst. I also believe that you'll let loose of your need to control once you have real freedom from his actions. You want to control your life, but you are going about it in an impossible way. Focus on what you are really wanting control over. I believe that what you really want control over is your own life, not his.
It is just my opinion that if you take some significant time of no contact (or limit contact to emails regarding co-parenting only and be really strict with that) that you will be able to work through this stuff.
That is not giving up. That is taking 6 months to get your thoughts clear and together - and for him to do the same.
You are no longer living together but your lives still seem to be very entangled with the daily phone calls, spending occasional time together with child, how you interact with each others personal affairs etc. Those are all fair enough - you aren't even divorced - but it was my experience that I needed the rigid no contact to clear the fog. He emailed all kinds of terrible things but I responded only to child stuff. I think I'd still be going in circles with him, and in my head, if I had not done the rigid no contact - divorce or no divorce.
I do not believe that 6mos of no contact automatically means divorce or giving up. It is simply giving you a chance to think.
I can see and interact with my ex now without the confusion. The confusion is the worst.
I also believe that you'll let loose of your need to control once you have real freedom from his actions. You want to control your life, but you are going about it in an impossible way. Focus on what you are really wanting control over. I believe that what you really want control over is your own life, not his.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
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Buffalo66...Get this book..."Face the Fear and Do It Anyway." He is controlling in a very mentally ill way. If I remember correctly from my lurking days, you were sexually assaulted. These 2 things are MAJORLY traumatic and completely erode your self-esteem and self-confidence. I know, I've experienced both things myself. You do not have to be "the good girl who doesn't rock the boat" a moment longer. Let him control (and I mean that let him say whatever) but do what YOU want and need to do to live your life. You no longer need his permission and you certainly no longer have to throw yourself on the sacrificial alter to appease him. It's hard, but I know you can do it. I KNOW It.
And here's the thing about being called a bitch. That used to cut me to the bone. It made me feel like a bad person. I finally realized that insecure, self-loathing people who need to control and define others use that word when they don't get what they want. So now I do what my best friend has done for years when that term has been hurled at her...I smile and say "Thank You." It disarms them completely. BTW, my friend is a nuclear engineer who gave it up to go into finance. Both male dominated fields. Shes wildly successful as well as brilliant and she's laughing all the way to the bank!
And here's the thing about being called a bitch. That used to cut me to the bone. It made me feel like a bad person. I finally realized that insecure, self-loathing people who need to control and define others use that word when they don't get what they want. So now I do what my best friend has done for years when that term has been hurled at her...I smile and say "Thank You." It disarms them completely. BTW, my friend is a nuclear engineer who gave it up to go into finance. Both male dominated fields. Shes wildly successful as well as brilliant and she's laughing all the way to the bank!
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66
And when I think of that, I get excited, and then this sense of doom creeps in. It is him, and his fears and his anxiety. And it is infecting my ability to LIVE MY LIFE!!!
Your post is really making me wish I had some one to tell me the outsider's POV on the relationship with XAH... *sigh* we moved too much though. I can't think of any steady, constant friends who were around enough to see.
Oh, my, god, Buffalo66. This is HUGE. Please don't let that little voice convince you that you were a willing victim or that you haven't come a long way. There are so many reasons we stay.
Easier to look at his defiicits than to face mine, to do the work of getting on with my own life, taking control of my own destiny?
I also think that we (partners of alcoholics and/or abusers) have a habit of taking their deficits as our own, of letting the small voice that they've whispered into our ear become one we think of as ours... It's so hard to weed that voice that isn't ours out, to find our own voice again. I truly think you're doing that.
This thread is HUGE. AMAZING. Thank you for sharing it with us.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
IOne of the most freeing gifts I have given myself is to remove all expectations I ever had surrounding him being a parent to our children. It's sad, but it's based in reality, not my fantasy about him being a "good dad."
Being a single parent is hard, no doubt about that. But, not as hard as trying to arrange your life and priorities around someone who clearly does not have your best interests at heart.
L
Being a single parent is hard, no doubt about that. But, not as hard as trying to arrange your life and priorities around someone who clearly does not have your best interests at heart.
L
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I used to believe and act as if people calling me a bitch was a slur of sorts, because it perpetuated stereotypes, it implied that there was emotion behind my action instead of logic, clarity, and conviction.
Needless to say, most of the people in my life who have categorized me this way have been men.
And the men in my career field who have strong opinions, who wield power, who call it like they see it are considered people who just know what they know, they are convicted and strong. They know what they want, and know how to get it, and dont take any bull.
But, as a woman, acting with the same type of strength can easily be demeaned and devalued by throwing out the emotional B word.
Needless to say, most of the people in my life who have categorized me this way have been men.
And the men in my career field who have strong opinions, who wield power, who call it like they see it are considered people who just know what they know, they are convicted and strong. They know what they want, and know how to get it, and dont take any bull.
But, as a woman, acting with the same type of strength can easily be demeaned and devalued by throwing out the emotional B word.
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I can relate:
--I got accepted into the graduate program at NYU--and didn't go because ABF (at the time, now AH) asked me to marry him and I was too tied up with the wedding
--I was a very devout Catholic from early childhood, but got married in a Presbyterian church because his family hated Catholics
--I stopped drawing and painting
--I got a crappy job because we needed health insurance, even though he sabotaged his own job because he didn't like his boss.
--I gave up all my friends
--What's worse, I never gave my mother the attention she needed and deserved because he didn't like her
Yes, how do we get that way?? When I went to my codie rehab, I felt the signals that were calling me back to me. I'm DETERMINED to follow those signals.
As for you, I want to hear your music! The world is waiting for your God-given talent to show itself! It is YOUR JOB to be the person God made you to be. I don't know if you believe in God, but I do, and I believe that it is your purpose in life to follow your (he)art. Please connect with your HP and ask him/her/it to guide you in that path.
Your RAH is not your HP
Your HP is your HP
Your HP put you here to share your gifts, so do it!
BTW: When AH is drunk, he calls me a b*tch. He called me that in front of my adult daughter, horrifying her. He called me that in the hospital after I had sat at his side for 3 days straight because I let the nurse take his clothes when he got up and left the floor. All I can say is, I wish I could own the title in a good way. I wish I COULD be that strong, self-possessed woman who goes for it no matter what. When he says it, he means it in a perjorative sense, but I say, give it to me!
--I got accepted into the graduate program at NYU--and didn't go because ABF (at the time, now AH) asked me to marry him and I was too tied up with the wedding
--I was a very devout Catholic from early childhood, but got married in a Presbyterian church because his family hated Catholics
--I stopped drawing and painting
--I got a crappy job because we needed health insurance, even though he sabotaged his own job because he didn't like his boss.
--I gave up all my friends
--What's worse, I never gave my mother the attention she needed and deserved because he didn't like her
Yes, how do we get that way?? When I went to my codie rehab, I felt the signals that were calling me back to me. I'm DETERMINED to follow those signals.
As for you, I want to hear your music! The world is waiting for your God-given talent to show itself! It is YOUR JOB to be the person God made you to be. I don't know if you believe in God, but I do, and I believe that it is your purpose in life to follow your (he)art. Please connect with your HP and ask him/her/it to guide you in that path.
Your RAH is not your HP
Your HP is your HP
Your HP put you here to share your gifts, so do it!
BTW: When AH is drunk, he calls me a b*tch. He called me that in front of my adult daughter, horrifying her. He called me that in the hospital after I had sat at his side for 3 days straight because I let the nurse take his clothes when he got up and left the floor. All I can say is, I wish I could own the title in a good way. I wish I COULD be that strong, self-possessed woman who goes for it no matter what. When he says it, he means it in a perjorative sense, but I say, give it to me!
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Maybe if we, women, start taking "bitch" as a compliment instead of a slur, it'll lose it's power. Wouldn't that just **** off the little boys who use it as a way "to keep us in our place?" Please know, this is ONLY in relation to men who use this word as a way to gain power. You enlightened and secure men are wonderful!!!
YouTube - meredith brooks bitch
YouTube - meredith brooks bitch
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We allow someone to take our power, it comes on so gradual that we don't even realize that they have taken it until we have no power left. Then we wonder how we ever got to that point in our life. When it comes on gradually, we accept it little by little, the more we give them control, the more they take. There are only two kinds of people in this world, givers and takers. Takers will take and take until the giver has nothing left of themselves.
I allowed someone to control me with fear, emotional and mental abuse. I always tried to justify in my mind that it really wasn't that bad. I had NO opinion unless it was the one he wanted to hear. I now realize that once I allowed him to take my opinion, the rest was easy for him. I lived that life for 25 years and had given up everything I had passion for. It has taken a while, but once your remove the obstacles that hold you back, you will find your passions and what ever makes you happy have not been lost.
I allowed someone to control me with fear, emotional and mental abuse. I always tried to justify in my mind that it really wasn't that bad. I had NO opinion unless it was the one he wanted to hear. I now realize that once I allowed him to take my opinion, the rest was easy for him. I lived that life for 25 years and had given up everything I had passion for. It has taken a while, but once your remove the obstacles that hold you back, you will find your passions and what ever makes you happy have not been lost.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Why? Why cant I get past this? I did remove him, and he is not in my day to day living space anymore, BUT HE IS STILL IN MY HEAD!
When someone mentally and emotionally abuses us over and over again, even if they are removed from our lives, their words leave an imprint on our hearts and minds for a very long time, until one day we believe in ourselves more than we believe that voice of negativity in our heads. Don't put your life on hold because you are afraid of how he is going to react. He is not putting drinking (his life) on hold because he's afraid of you.
P.S. The word B*tch stands for BABE.IN.TOTAL.CONTROL.OF.HERSELF
When someone mentally and emotionally abuses us over and over again, even if they are removed from our lives, their words leave an imprint on our hearts and minds for a very long time, until one day we believe in ourselves more than we believe that voice of negativity in our heads. Don't put your life on hold because you are afraid of how he is going to react. He is not putting drinking (his life) on hold because he's afraid of you.
P.S. The word B*tch stands for BABE.IN.TOTAL.CONTROL.OF.HERSELF
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