Actor
 

Does anyone feel like that the A's missed their callings and should have been actors? How do they do it? Lie straight to your face and look so convincing and believable. Except we know the truth an know it is an act. I can not lie, it shows in my face. My daughter is the same way. She said I can not lie because it shows in my face and this is so true. She said when I tried to lie, you always called me out on it. I said that is not a bad thing because when someone lies and gets away with it and makes it easier for them to lie again and who wants to be a dishonest person?

I feel looking back I knew the truth at the time but because he was such a great liar, I doubted myself. I also believe that he thought, heck this is easy. She fell for it. What is your take on the lying?

:DA

Lying is the worst thing, it hurts do much. When they lie you start to think you are nuts. After awhile you just think everything they are saying is a lie. Sometimes it is just easier to let the lie go not worth the fight you know the truth.

I don't think the lies are a conscious act. I think the lies that our A's tell us, are actually what they intrinsically believe to be the truth. You can pass a lie detector test if intrinsically, you actually believe that you are innocent and did not commit the crime. They are so convincing to us and make our heads spin because they're not "lying," they are telling their version of the truth, warped as it is. We see the truth in reality, they see it within the sickness. Ugh... this sickness just makes me ill.

Oh I know my AH's lies are conscious acts...lol. He lies because it has worked for him in the past and it kept me thinking things were okay or getting better. Once I caught on and could call him out on it he would nod in agreement. Funny enough I still think he has trouble understanding why I have trust issues with him.

My XABF definitely lied consciously. But then again, I also have extremely strong suspicions he's either a true narcissist or sociopath in addition to being an alcoholic. I would guess it depends on the specific person, as so much does.

Absofrigginlutely.

I had a long conversation with a lawyer today who said exactly that: He has seen many alcoholics pass lie detector tests because they don't think they're lying. They actually believe themselves...

Oh, I go back and forth on this one. I'm not sure if all of XAH's lies were conscious ones or not. I do think he can't help it; the cr-p just rolls off his tongue. I do know he's aware of at least some of his lies, because he can stick to his story months later. It's one thing that reminds me that his verbal and emotional abuse was intentional and not a result of having 'a few'.

I used to hate my AH's lying. My feelings about it didn't stop it from happening. I began to realize that he was trying to cover up for drinking because:

1. he was ashamed of it
2. he didn't want me to be angry with him
3. he wanted to keep on drinking
4. alcoholism is a disease and in his case, lying is part of the disease

I've realized my anger doesn't change his drinking; my actions don't change his drinking; my sadness doesn't change his drinking; only he can change his drinking.

I was watching Biggest Loser last night, and the two sisters each said, at separate times and regarding separate incidents, "IF (this) happens, THEN I'm going to be devastated." I thought to myself, "Hey - they're planning to be devastated!!"

It's so good to have Al-Anon.

I no longer look for empty bottles, planning to confront him with my anger and hurt. Planning to get angry. Planning to have a scene. Planning to feel bad. Et cetera.

I no longer put fear of his drinking at the center of my life. My Higher Power is at the center of my life. My Higher Power, my Creator, knows infinitely more about my happiness than I do. My Higher Power has better plans for me than pain and suffering.

I found this article to be really helpful, when trying to undestand my exabf's dishonesty:

Alcoholism Treatment

Here's my 'take' on this, having been a practicing alkie for many years and now having been in recovery from both my addictions and my codie ways for many years.

The A lives in an 'alternate' or 'parallel' reality. Steven King, whose writings I have always loved as I always understood where his 'ideas' for books came from is a recovering A. Before his recovery he wrote a whole series of books based on a parallel reality that the characters coul;d jump back and forth into from this world. I knew as soon as I was half way through the first book he was talking about me!

A's may be here physically in time and place, but their minds are not. They live in their own 'little world' and to them they are not lying, that is their truth. Yes, someone who actually really believes what they are saying can pass a lie detector test.

Actor? Sure. In denial? Sure. Con artists? You bet. That is why addiction is so all encompassing. It is a physical craving coupled with a mental obsession.

Many A's never find recovery. Many A's do. We can do nothing, absolutely nothing to help them. The only one we can help is self. The only one(s) we can protect are ourselves and our child(ren). Even after I found sobriety for myself, this was a very HARD CONCEPT for me to accept ................ that I could not help any of the A's in my life ......................... I could only continue to work on me and my peace and serenity, and hopefully someday they would or would not see my example. I stopped trying to 'figure' out the A (other than me). It helped tremendously with my own peace and serenity.

Hope the above helps a bit.

J M H O based on my own experiences.

Love and hugs,

My Higher Power is at the center of my life. My Higher Power, my Creator, knows infinitely more about my happiness than I do. My Higher Power has better plans for me than pain and suffering.

Meredith,
You may not realize, but what you wrote here is really lovely and I read it over like a little prayer.
Thanks

I've told AH he missed his calling as an actor or sleazy defense attorney (kinda like the one I just fired actually) several times!

And I tend to think, based on what he has said, that he's pretty aware of most of the lies and intentionally tells them as lies... He's explained it like this:

"I think about the costs and benefits of lying and if the benefit I will get from lying is greater-- and it always is bc I can always rationalize it-- then the potential costs of lying don't matter".

He's said this almost word for word for years when he gets "caught". So, that kind of makes me think that he's pretty darn aware that the lies are lies and he knows it's wrong as opposed to really believing what he says... But that's just him. Everyone's different.

It's like polar opposites attract isn't it? I'm like you-- I can't remember when I last tried to lie bc I am such a terrible liar it's pointless... I'm like the poster child for the stories on 20/20 about "heres how to know when someone is lying". I know better (for many reasons) than to even bother bc no one would believe me anyway. Being honest gets me in trouble at times and I need to learn the difference a bit better between honesty and telling too much but frankly, I'd rather err on that side than be like my AH who sober or not, would rather die than tell the truth.

Yup. Because it's easier to believe what you want to be true than to accept that what you know deep down is true, is really what's happening. Been there too.

That's my thought too-- if I bought it, why stop, right? And even when I did question it, he was so good at convincing me that I was crazy that it made it easy for him to keep lying bc he never felt "caught"... A few times I guess he did, and he came clean and had apologies up the ying yang but the promises of change never, ever, not even once, were matched with action. And when I'd point that out I'd be told "you think in absolutes, it's all so black and white with you isn't it" and it still was my fault. And yes, I'd tell him now (if I could go back and say what I should have when he'd say that instead of defending myself) I do think in absolutes in terms of lying and keeping your word and I don't apologize for that.

The past lies hurt the most and are what I am having the biggest problem getting past. I will continue to work on this but it will take a huge amount of time, renewed honesty from her and work from both of us. A real sorry from her regarding the past lies would not hurt either. Only time will tell.

I have to tell you, this had a profound effect on me. It's no-holds-barred truth about lying and the alcoholic/addict.

Meredith, that was a fantastic article. Thank you for sharing. I often asked my RAH why he would lie so much and now I have a better understanding.

I'm really glad I came back to this forum tonight. I'm having a rough time. My exabf is still with his ex...she drives down every weekend to stay with him...and I keep remembering how he said to me, a few weeks ago, "I'm not with her"; "I'm not in a relationship with her"...

I know he was lying to me, and/or lying to her, probably...making her think he IS in a relationship with her..wanting me to think he's not, so he could keep me as a backup (as if he doesn't realize, I'm so done with him..)

When I look back at everything, I truly see him for the manipulative sociopath he really is.

He's always played this chick. He doesn't respect her - but then again, there's not much to respect. She's a pot addict loser, pretty much. But she'll always rush back to him like a desperate puppy dog, no matter what.

I'm only seeing all of this with total clarity, in hindsight. I contrast all these games he's played, with the heartfelt, passionate letters he wrote me. He was writing me letters expressing a desire to change, even as he was re-igniting his weird bizarre game with this girl. All this stuff about "I love you and always will" ..hmm, was he still loving me when he got back into bed with her? funny.

I wanted to believe the words, not the actions. Now that I truly see the actions, and see what kind of person he is, it turns my stomach I stayed with someone like that as long as I did - 3.5 yrs, off and on.

I honestly wonder, was this behavior part of the alcoholism, or part of some freaky mental illness? Not that it really matters, since I'm moving on, but it's curious to me. Yeah-acting, dishonesty, denial...all part of the same package.

sandra the exes and GFs remind me of my dad and his wife...they have been married for 25 years or so.. will stick together no matter what... her family abused her...and he abandoned his family for her. Codie+rescuer.

Well, he did not divorce my mom for her (or at least that is what he says) but things like never having hearts to hearts, she ALWAYS answered the phone, controls his money, my dad did not go to my sister's wedding because she only wanted her close family in a private ceremony and the wife was not invited. He could have gone easily. He was an airline pilot and could have requested a flight to Paris and go. He did that for other things like plays, etc. But no, for some reason he couldn't be with my sister or us in that special day.

So two people can be together for a long time and have a life together. That does not mean its healthy. The last one was when he notified us he was moving to Finland. Its going to be very difficult to visit him. He never cared much. My therapist helped me realize this is what selfish people do. And that expectations hurt me. And that forgiveness is possible. I realize how much pain my sis,my mom and I have gone through. Its not that he did all that in purpose. He is just selfish. He can't think about how others are affected. No wonder I chose those "partners". So, so very sick...

I hope you can stop torturing yourself about "them". Your life and my life are much better without toxic people. I get sick thinking about them. Its time for US now. Its all about us now !! we imagine others are happy and we are not, but truth is that we will never know what is going on beyond the surface. Things may be much worse than what we know or what we realize. Perhaps its time to say thanks, instead of having a fantasy that makes us suffer and may not even be true.

I know. I guess I'm just disgusted. He plays people-uses them. Exploits them. Manipulates them. Lies. Lies to himself too. I see him as a snake. I don't know if that's the alcoholism, or he's just a bad person and the alcoholism makes it worse.

It's like I couldn't see the whole picture until now, of what he's doing and the games he plays. Now that I see them, it's making me ill. Ok, that's all I want to say. I'm not sure why working my 1st step seemed to have brought all this out.

Well being honest is not pretty at first. I vote for option #2. And yes I also think its just evil. I honestly don't get how others cope having it so much worse, my experience with an alcoholic was nothing, yet the pain was.. incredible. Still is sometimes. It also evoked the devil for me, given how there's no love nor compassion at all. The deceit. That is one of the promises of alcohol to the alcoholic: "I will steal your heart, give you one of stone". *Shrugs*

Wow, so true. Where did you find that sentence? Is it from a poem or something?