New Here~ A sober couple in a family of alcoholics, needing support :(
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
New Here~ A sober couple in a family of alcoholics, needing support :(
I moved in next to K 5 years ago. We were best friends for 3 of those years, and although I knew she had a drinking problem, she seemed to maintain it well. She held down a job and would often ask me to drive her places when she had been drinking, which I never minded doing.
There were signs of abuse, such as when her then 9 year old daughter would tell me about how her mom had passed out (again) and she and her friends would play a 'game' of screaming into her mom's ears to try to wake her up (she would be too drunk on alcohol, zanax, and muscle relaxers to wake up, but I was always told after the fact.)
2 years ago I left my long term controlling marriage, and she hooked me up with her son, Scott. We were both shy and had the wrong impression of each other, so we didnt like each other very much, but she kept pushing for us to hook up, and eventually we got to know each other and started dating.
Early on in our relationship, I told her that I was starting to fall in love with him, and she assured me that he would never have strong feelings for me back, because I have children. She told me that she had only pushed for us to get together because she wanted him to have a sexual relationship with a girl who was safe, because it would put him in a 'better mood'. (Yes, we are aware of how strange and sick that is.)
When she realized that he had strong feelings for me too, she became very jealous and told him to break up with me. She began telling him constantly that I was ruining his life because I had kids, and she had always planned that he would have kids of his own with some other fantasy girl. I cannot even begin to tell you how much that hurt me.
Our relationship progressed, and we moved in together. The one time she came to our house she was drinking, and actually slapped him across the face because he wouldn't kiss her, but he would kiss me. (He has this thing where he will not kiss any other person but me.)
A couple of nights before our first Christmas together, we recieved a drunk phone call from her, saying she was stuck on the side of the road. We went to rescue her, and she was so drunk that she couldnt tell us how to get to her new house. But that was never mentioned again.
We still tried spending time with her, and even set up a dinner date at her house. We went shopping, and brought food over to cook for her. She was gone when we got there, and showed up an hour later, drunk, because she had been at her friend's house drinking. She knew we were waiting for her, but I guess she didn't care.
I still tried to maintain a relationship with her, because I still loved her very much, but it became impossible. Through the last 2 years, it has become a pattern of her calling our house drunk, insulting me and telling lies about me (but never to me, always to him), then she would apologize later (again to him), things would be kind of quiet until another month or two later she would do it all again.
She also tells lies about me to people she and Scott know, but I dont, so whenever we run into someone who knows him and his mom, they are very sweet to him but incredibly rude to me. However, she denied this when he brought it up to her.
After the last time she called drunk and told him that she wanted to kill me, we blocked her calls. I cannot even count the number of major fights we have had because of K, and it was really stressing our relationship. Plus, the stress was making us sick. After another episode, we would both be fighting over stupid things, really exausted, not sleeping well, and we would finally get past it, just to have it happen again. It got so that we were both on edge, waiting for the next time, and knowing it would be soon.
Scott and I came up with a plan to minimize the stress, while still allowing him to maintain a relationship. He would call her house every few days to see how she was, but only when I wasnt home. It worked very well and for a while we were doing so much better, and were so happy.
But despite him asking her not to call us, he would call her, she kept calling and eventually came over to see why she couldnt get through. She was drunk again. He calmly told her that he had blocked her calls because when she drinks, she calls and says horrible things, and this was to protect everyone. She threw it in his face he didn't have a father, told him that now he had lost his mother, and left.
We were shocked that she did this, and didn't know what to do. We wanted to make sure she had gotten home okay, but didn't want to call her and 'reward' her by giving her attention after acting this way (her mind works like that.) So he called his grandma, told her what had happened, and told her he was concerned that she was still drunk driving.
His grandma (who also has a drinking problem) wasnt concerned about the drunk driving, and kept telling him to unblock K's calls. He refused.
That happened Friday night, and we still haven't recovered from it. We honestly cannot take anymore. This is ruining our lives. We went to a meeting for children of alcoholics, and while it wasn't what we were looking for (we thought it was like Al-Anon) it did help us realize the effect it was having on us.
Another thing we are concerned about is that his little sister has been drinking and smoking since she was 11, she is not only 13, and his mom just says "she's going to do it anyways." She is too caught up with her own drinking that she is neglecting his little sister, and she needs help.
We decided that for our own sanity, we need to take a break from her for a while. Last night he called her and told her that he loves her very much, and she has to get help for her drinking problem. He said he would not have any contact with her for 6 months, because he couldnt deal with it anymore, and he wants her to start going to AA. She never apologized for the horrible way she acted the other night, and blamed it all on me, saying she would never like me or get along with me. She told him that his Grandma has heart problems and he is killing her by getting her involved in this. She never took responsibility for the drunk driving, and he ended up telling her he didnt want to see or talk to her anymore, and he hung up.
Not even 5 minutes later, his Grandma called and we let it go to voicemail. She left a message saying "Stop the ********, you're killing your mother. Call me." He hasn't called her back, and we don't know what to do. We just know that we want a normal, stress free life, and we cannot continue being attacked like this. Setting bounderies didn't work. We really could use some support, because we don't know how to feel, what to expect, or how to get past this. He is losing his entire family, and it isn't right, but we are powerless.
There were signs of abuse, such as when her then 9 year old daughter would tell me about how her mom had passed out (again) and she and her friends would play a 'game' of screaming into her mom's ears to try to wake her up (she would be too drunk on alcohol, zanax, and muscle relaxers to wake up, but I was always told after the fact.)
2 years ago I left my long term controlling marriage, and she hooked me up with her son, Scott. We were both shy and had the wrong impression of each other, so we didnt like each other very much, but she kept pushing for us to hook up, and eventually we got to know each other and started dating.
Early on in our relationship, I told her that I was starting to fall in love with him, and she assured me that he would never have strong feelings for me back, because I have children. She told me that she had only pushed for us to get together because she wanted him to have a sexual relationship with a girl who was safe, because it would put him in a 'better mood'. (Yes, we are aware of how strange and sick that is.)
When she realized that he had strong feelings for me too, she became very jealous and told him to break up with me. She began telling him constantly that I was ruining his life because I had kids, and she had always planned that he would have kids of his own with some other fantasy girl. I cannot even begin to tell you how much that hurt me.
Our relationship progressed, and we moved in together. The one time she came to our house she was drinking, and actually slapped him across the face because he wouldn't kiss her, but he would kiss me. (He has this thing where he will not kiss any other person but me.)
A couple of nights before our first Christmas together, we recieved a drunk phone call from her, saying she was stuck on the side of the road. We went to rescue her, and she was so drunk that she couldnt tell us how to get to her new house. But that was never mentioned again.
We still tried spending time with her, and even set up a dinner date at her house. We went shopping, and brought food over to cook for her. She was gone when we got there, and showed up an hour later, drunk, because she had been at her friend's house drinking. She knew we were waiting for her, but I guess she didn't care.
I still tried to maintain a relationship with her, because I still loved her very much, but it became impossible. Through the last 2 years, it has become a pattern of her calling our house drunk, insulting me and telling lies about me (but never to me, always to him), then she would apologize later (again to him), things would be kind of quiet until another month or two later she would do it all again.
She also tells lies about me to people she and Scott know, but I dont, so whenever we run into someone who knows him and his mom, they are very sweet to him but incredibly rude to me. However, she denied this when he brought it up to her.
After the last time she called drunk and told him that she wanted to kill me, we blocked her calls. I cannot even count the number of major fights we have had because of K, and it was really stressing our relationship. Plus, the stress was making us sick. After another episode, we would both be fighting over stupid things, really exausted, not sleeping well, and we would finally get past it, just to have it happen again. It got so that we were both on edge, waiting for the next time, and knowing it would be soon.
Scott and I came up with a plan to minimize the stress, while still allowing him to maintain a relationship. He would call her house every few days to see how she was, but only when I wasnt home. It worked very well and for a while we were doing so much better, and were so happy.
But despite him asking her not to call us, he would call her, she kept calling and eventually came over to see why she couldnt get through. She was drunk again. He calmly told her that he had blocked her calls because when she drinks, she calls and says horrible things, and this was to protect everyone. She threw it in his face he didn't have a father, told him that now he had lost his mother, and left.
We were shocked that she did this, and didn't know what to do. We wanted to make sure she had gotten home okay, but didn't want to call her and 'reward' her by giving her attention after acting this way (her mind works like that.) So he called his grandma, told her what had happened, and told her he was concerned that she was still drunk driving.
His grandma (who also has a drinking problem) wasnt concerned about the drunk driving, and kept telling him to unblock K's calls. He refused.
That happened Friday night, and we still haven't recovered from it. We honestly cannot take anymore. This is ruining our lives. We went to a meeting for children of alcoholics, and while it wasn't what we were looking for (we thought it was like Al-Anon) it did help us realize the effect it was having on us.
Another thing we are concerned about is that his little sister has been drinking and smoking since she was 11, she is not only 13, and his mom just says "she's going to do it anyways." She is too caught up with her own drinking that she is neglecting his little sister, and she needs help.
We decided that for our own sanity, we need to take a break from her for a while. Last night he called her and told her that he loves her very much, and she has to get help for her drinking problem. He said he would not have any contact with her for 6 months, because he couldnt deal with it anymore, and he wants her to start going to AA. She never apologized for the horrible way she acted the other night, and blamed it all on me, saying she would never like me or get along with me. She told him that his Grandma has heart problems and he is killing her by getting her involved in this. She never took responsibility for the drunk driving, and he ended up telling her he didnt want to see or talk to her anymore, and he hung up.
Not even 5 minutes later, his Grandma called and we let it go to voicemail. She left a message saying "Stop the ********, you're killing your mother. Call me." He hasn't called her back, and we don't know what to do. We just know that we want a normal, stress free life, and we cannot continue being attacked like this. Setting bounderies didn't work. We really could use some support, because we don't know how to feel, what to expect, or how to get past this. He is losing his entire family, and it isn't right, but we are powerless.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
whew -
take a deep breathe honey & welcome to the SR family!!
First let me say I hate so much that you and your family have been so affected by the disease of alcoholism
It is difficult when our loved ones won't acknowledge they have a problem and also when other family members refuse to see the problem also.
Hopefully you & your BF can continue to seek help for yourselves, reading here and maybe thru counseling, Al-Anon and other sources to set boundaries, limit contact, and detach with love ~ to help both of you be able to live your lives with out her disease affecting your happiness.
It's not easy but it can be done.
Hope you keep coming back - there is a lot of help here and lots of great suggestions.
PINK HUGS (hope, unity, gratitude & serenity)
Rita
take a deep breathe honey & welcome to the SR family!!
First let me say I hate so much that you and your family have been so affected by the disease of alcoholism
It is difficult when our loved ones won't acknowledge they have a problem and also when other family members refuse to see the problem also.
Hopefully you & your BF can continue to seek help for yourselves, reading here and maybe thru counseling, Al-Anon and other sources to set boundaries, limit contact, and detach with love ~ to help both of you be able to live your lives with out her disease affecting your happiness.
It's not easy but it can be done.
Hope you keep coming back - there is a lot of help here and lots of great suggestions.
PINK HUGS (hope, unity, gratitude & serenity)
Rita
New to Real Life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: I come in Peaces
Posts: 2,071
Call CPS for the 13 year old and cut all ties? The whole thing just seems rotten to the core, honestly. Even your original relationship with her is kind of setting my teeth on edge.
IDK. I wish I had more to offer.
IDK. I wish I had more to offer.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Holy drama Batman! No wonder you're both exhausted...
It really sounds as this no contact rule you've both agreed upon is the best course of action. It may get hairy for a time, while Scott's AM (alcoholic mother) thrashes about, looking for a way back into your lives, but it'll settle down eventually.
I strongly recommend Al-Anon and individual counselling. Having face to face support is invaluable.
It really sounds as this no contact rule you've both agreed upon is the best course of action. It may get hairy for a time, while Scott's AM (alcoholic mother) thrashes about, looking for a way back into your lives, but it'll settle down eventually.
I strongly recommend Al-Anon and individual counselling. Having face to face support is invaluable.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 23
I agree that no contact with her is probably the best plan for now.
I strongly agree that CPS should be called about the daughter. (i'm not sure what they would be able to do but hopefully they could help! and if not at least it will put their names in their records incase things get worse for the daughter later.)
i know thats probably difficult emotionally but a childs well-being is far more important than anything else.
i hope things get better for you one way or another.
I strongly agree that CPS should be called about the daughter. (i'm not sure what they would be able to do but hopefully they could help! and if not at least it will put their names in their records incase things get worse for the daughter later.)
i know thats probably difficult emotionally but a childs well-being is far more important than anything else.
i hope things get better for you one way or another.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
Hey there, Marie,
You are really in the thick of it, huh?
Welcome to this forum. There is a lot of support, other people's experience, and guidance through this dark place you're in.
The thing that jumps out at me most - other than just (as noday so eloquently put it) Holy Drama, Batman! - is the idea you've suggested that setting boundaries won't or didn't work.
You have only begun to set boundaries. It is indeed a process, and the longer and firmer you stick to yours, the more effective it will be.
Think of a flood pushing up against a wall that was constructed to keep the water away. The water will push and push, the force becomes greater, and then eventually it recedes. If it had a mind, it will have understood that there's no way it's gettin through that wall.
You guys definitely do need some distance. Most recovering alcoholics will say that they knew their loved ones did still love and care, but that they needed to be away. No matter what she says (threats, drama, manipulations) don't worry that she will think Scott or you don't care for her.
I think that it will be challenging for Scott to truly get away, and you two guys take care of your relationship during this stressful and possibly conflict-filled time.
The grandmother's garbage is just another manipulator in your life. Ignore it, she doesn't know any better.
Peace...
You are really in the thick of it, huh?
Welcome to this forum. There is a lot of support, other people's experience, and guidance through this dark place you're in.
The thing that jumps out at me most - other than just (as noday so eloquently put it) Holy Drama, Batman! - is the idea you've suggested that setting boundaries won't or didn't work.
You have only begun to set boundaries. It is indeed a process, and the longer and firmer you stick to yours, the more effective it will be.
Think of a flood pushing up against a wall that was constructed to keep the water away. The water will push and push, the force becomes greater, and then eventually it recedes. If it had a mind, it will have understood that there's no way it's gettin through that wall.
You guys definitely do need some distance. Most recovering alcoholics will say that they knew their loved ones did still love and care, but that they needed to be away. No matter what she says (threats, drama, manipulations) don't worry that she will think Scott or you don't care for her.
I think that it will be challenging for Scott to truly get away, and you two guys take care of your relationship during this stressful and possibly conflict-filled time.
The grandmother's garbage is just another manipulator in your life. Ignore it, she doesn't know any better.
Peace...
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
You found a great place
Hi welcome to SR.
Check out the Sticky section, lots of good info in there.
The book "Codependent no more" by Melody Beatty is good reading and also talks about boundaries. "The language of letting go" by the same author is also wonderful.
What others think of you is none of your business, but an alcoholic ex that I had also badmouthed me with our common friends, and some believed him. When I decided I was not going to waste energy "convincing" anyone, or worrying about other people's lies/fantasies/gossip, my life improved. I hope you make a point on seeing the true friends that you have in your life. That is what it has taken for me to heal from that situation. (I am not saying you are behaving the same way I did, just sharing my own experience...)
Which family? they keep on dragging him down.
I am now into the concept of "spiritual family" as hard as it is to cut ties with family members sometimes its needed to keep our own health and sanity. Recently I was sad about "losing my dad" then I realized - WHICH DAD?? he was NEVER there when I needed or in the important events of my life. He is more like a pen-pal nowadays. And very often his words and actions hurt me and make me angry when I am otherwise OK. Yet for instance, the lovely Jadmack far away in Australia gets me and has supported me emotionally through my worst. I count her as spiritual family, she and SR members who have helped me way too much to heal from contact with an active alcoholic.
Yes, you are powerless. We are all powerless. No one can change, cure or control anyone else. BUT you have power over your life and your decisions, and you have the right to do what is best for you, even if it hurts at first...
Check out the Sticky section, lots of good info in there.
The book "Codependent no more" by Melody Beatty is good reading and also talks about boundaries. "The language of letting go" by the same author is also wonderful.
Originally Posted by SCOTTandMARIE 
She also tells lies about me to people she and Scott know, but I dont, so whenever we run into someone who knows him and his mom, they are very sweet to him but incredibly rude to me.
Originally Posted by SCOTTandMARIE
He is losing his entire family, and it isn't right, but we are powerless.
I am now into the concept of "spiritual family" as hard as it is to cut ties with family members sometimes its needed to keep our own health and sanity. Recently I was sad about "losing my dad" then I realized - WHICH DAD?? he was NEVER there when I needed or in the important events of my life. He is more like a pen-pal nowadays. And very often his words and actions hurt me and make me angry when I am otherwise OK. Yet for instance, the lovely Jadmack far away in Australia gets me and has supported me emotionally through my worst. I count her as spiritual family, she and SR members who have helped me way too much to heal from contact with an active alcoholic.
Yes, you are powerless. We are all powerless. No one can change, cure or control anyone else. BUT you have power over your life and your decisions, and you have the right to do what is best for you, even if it hurts at first...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
The thing I like about your story is your boyfriend is willing to set boundaries with mom.
He has to set his own boundaries for himself, but you have a right to say mom needs to stay out of the picture for you to have a healthy relationship with your guy.
It is not either of your fault or responsibility that mom AND grandma are dysfunctional.
Try to step away and love them from afar.
You need to take care of you.
Peace.
p
He has to set his own boundaries for himself, but you have a right to say mom needs to stay out of the picture for you to have a healthy relationship with your guy.
It is not either of your fault or responsibility that mom AND grandma are dysfunctional.
Try to step away and love them from afar.
You need to take care of you.
Peace.
p
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
Thanks for all your support. The drama isnt over yet. K had his little sister call from her friend's phone and leave him a message, so he messaged her on FB and told her that he wouldnt be calling her back because he didnt want to talk to his mom, but he would talk to her on FB instead. He explained to her that the reason he wasnt talking to his mom anymore was because he was hoping she would get help for her drinking problem. He said she is very disrespectful and just isnt the same person that she used to be.
She responded by telling him that "you cant stop talking to someone just because they get drunk. And I bet Marie is the one who really has the problem with it. You could have done so many great things with your life, and I know I keep telling you that you deserve better than Marie, but its true." Blah, Blah.
I just love how his 13 year old sister gets to tell her adult brother (who just got hired on at a very successful construction company and is learning an amazing new trade as I type) that he could have done 'great things' with his life. REALLY??? Cuz I think he is really great right now, just as he is, and I am so incredibly proud of him!!!
And once again, I am to blame. For everything. Everytiime he says something they don't agree with, they either say "Wow, brainwashed much?" or "I bet Marie told you to say that." And just for the record... the brainwashed comment was in response to him telling his mom that he really enjoys living out in the country, instead of in town where we used to be. But he apparently is so weak minded that I tell him where he can enjoy living, too. Grrrr.
Sorry to be venting, I am just so tired of all this drama and dishonestly, and just really childish games. I mean, really, are we back in middle school???
So, I picked him up a Mothers Day card to send to his mom, but upon learning that he had never sent her one before, it probably wouldnt be the best time to start. We both could just hear how it would go: "Scott sent me a mothers day card for the first time ever! He really cant live without me! I bet Marie doesnt even know he sent one... she is the one who is not letting him talk to me...." Blah Blah Blah.
And after the wonderful conversation with his little sister where she parroted all her mother's lies (You deserve better! I keep telling you this but its true!) that he has never heard her say before, he decided not to call his mom for mother's day. Instead we had a really quiet and very nice weekend together. But still feeling all the stress. I wish it would all just go away.
How much of this, do you think, is because of the alcoholism, and how much of it is just craziness? Do you think that her going to AA and getting a handle on her drinking will solve all the family drama? Because at this point, they are all just telling crazy lies about me, because they cant come up with a real, honest reason for hating me. I am hoping that if she stops drinking, we can be a normal family. And I can't help but get angry at them for causing us all this stress, and wonder in the back of my mind if Scott is going to end up resenting me somehow for all his family's drama. After all, if I hadn't 'stolen' him away from them, there would be no problems, right?
She responded by telling him that "you cant stop talking to someone just because they get drunk. And I bet Marie is the one who really has the problem with it. You could have done so many great things with your life, and I know I keep telling you that you deserve better than Marie, but its true." Blah, Blah.
I just love how his 13 year old sister gets to tell her adult brother (who just got hired on at a very successful construction company and is learning an amazing new trade as I type) that he could have done 'great things' with his life. REALLY??? Cuz I think he is really great right now, just as he is, and I am so incredibly proud of him!!!
And once again, I am to blame. For everything. Everytiime he says something they don't agree with, they either say "Wow, brainwashed much?" or "I bet Marie told you to say that." And just for the record... the brainwashed comment was in response to him telling his mom that he really enjoys living out in the country, instead of in town where we used to be. But he apparently is so weak minded that I tell him where he can enjoy living, too. Grrrr.
Sorry to be venting, I am just so tired of all this drama and dishonestly, and just really childish games. I mean, really, are we back in middle school???
So, I picked him up a Mothers Day card to send to his mom, but upon learning that he had never sent her one before, it probably wouldnt be the best time to start. We both could just hear how it would go: "Scott sent me a mothers day card for the first time ever! He really cant live without me! I bet Marie doesnt even know he sent one... she is the one who is not letting him talk to me...." Blah Blah Blah.
And after the wonderful conversation with his little sister where she parroted all her mother's lies (You deserve better! I keep telling you this but its true!) that he has never heard her say before, he decided not to call his mom for mother's day. Instead we had a really quiet and very nice weekend together. But still feeling all the stress. I wish it would all just go away.
How much of this, do you think, is because of the alcoholism, and how much of it is just craziness? Do you think that her going to AA and getting a handle on her drinking will solve all the family drama? Because at this point, they are all just telling crazy lies about me, because they cant come up with a real, honest reason for hating me. I am hoping that if she stops drinking, we can be a normal family. And I can't help but get angry at them for causing us all this stress, and wonder in the back of my mind if Scott is going to end up resenting me somehow for all his family's drama. After all, if I hadn't 'stolen' him away from them, there would be no problems, right?
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
How much of this, do you think, is because of the alcoholism, and how much of it is just craziness? Do you think that her going to AA and getting a handle on her drinking will solve all the family drama? Because at this point, they are all just telling crazy lies about me, because they cant come up with a real, honest reason for hating me. I am hoping that if she stops drinking, we can be a normal family. And I can't help but get angry at them for causing us all this stress, and wonder in the back of my mind if Scott is going to end up resenting me somehow for all his family's drama. After all, if I hadn't 'stolen' him away from them, there would be no problems, right?
I really am sorry but his family makes mine look normal, WOW.
If I were you or your husband I would go complete NO CONTACT with all of them (and yes I had to do that for over 5 years). Stay out of the Day to Day even through Facebook. Unfriend any family members on Facebook. Don't Call. Don't Take Their Calls.
I know this may be hard at first for your husband, but I think he will feel better about it, if y'all (as in both of you) either get some counseling and/or try AlAnon for at least 6 meetings.
I have 'Been there, done that, and have the T-shirt' and know exactly what a dysfunctional family can do to one's emotional and mental health.
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
Thanks for your support. I think he is really considering just breaking off all contact for a while, because it seems that no matter what he says, they just twist it all around. An example of that is his sister telling him "you dont come over for holidays and you never call".
What she either doesn't know, or is just ignoring, is that Thanksgiving he didnt go to their house for the first time ever because he didnt have the gas, and nobody was interested in picking him up. Instead, they canceled Thanksgiving.
And then for Christmas, we made a compromise that since I was working both Christmas Eve and Christmas day, he would visit his family while I was working, and we would spend the evenings together. They got all upset because he asked to have dinner earlier in the day so that he could eat with them, and they wanted him to come at night (because we always have dinner at night) and leave me home alone, all night, on Christmas. And he refused to leave me home alone on Christmas, so they got upset.
As for him 'never calling', until the Friday night drunk visit from Hell, where she told him that he 'didnt have a mother anymore', he was calling every few days to talk to them. But his sister was never home to know about the calls, because she is usually out running the streets with her friends.
No matter what he says or how hard he tries to please them, nothing is ever good enough. Honestly, it would be a huge relief to get a break from that, at least for a while.
But there is one good person in the family that Scott loves very much. His Grandpa, who is recovering from throat cancer. This man has a heart of gold, never has a bad thing to say about anyone, and would help anyone who needed it. An example is a few weeks ago, he called and told us that he had cut us firewood, and he's in his 70's or 80's, and still getting cancer treatments!
Scott has really been trying to strengthen his relationship with his grandpa, especially since that is the only real father figure in his life. His Grandpa will not say anything to anyone in defense of him, because 'staying out of it' has been how he has managed to live with his Grandma for so long. He is laid back, almost to a fault.
So cutting off contact with his family means losing contact with his Grandpa. That hurts me just thinking of it, because I know how much he means to Scott. And I hate that we are put in this position! Really sweet people are so hard to find that when you do manage to find one, you are so tempted to do whatever it takes to keep them in your life. At least thats how I feel.
Has anyone else here had to make the heartbreaking decision to cut off contact with someone they care about and who really cares back, just because they are a package deal with a toxic person? If so, did you ever find a way around it? Did it get easier? Or is it something you regret?
What she either doesn't know, or is just ignoring, is that Thanksgiving he didnt go to their house for the first time ever because he didnt have the gas, and nobody was interested in picking him up. Instead, they canceled Thanksgiving.
And then for Christmas, we made a compromise that since I was working both Christmas Eve and Christmas day, he would visit his family while I was working, and we would spend the evenings together. They got all upset because he asked to have dinner earlier in the day so that he could eat with them, and they wanted him to come at night (because we always have dinner at night) and leave me home alone, all night, on Christmas. And he refused to leave me home alone on Christmas, so they got upset.
As for him 'never calling', until the Friday night drunk visit from Hell, where she told him that he 'didnt have a mother anymore', he was calling every few days to talk to them. But his sister was never home to know about the calls, because she is usually out running the streets with her friends.
No matter what he says or how hard he tries to please them, nothing is ever good enough. Honestly, it would be a huge relief to get a break from that, at least for a while.
But there is one good person in the family that Scott loves very much. His Grandpa, who is recovering from throat cancer. This man has a heart of gold, never has a bad thing to say about anyone, and would help anyone who needed it. An example is a few weeks ago, he called and told us that he had cut us firewood, and he's in his 70's or 80's, and still getting cancer treatments!
Scott has really been trying to strengthen his relationship with his grandpa, especially since that is the only real father figure in his life. His Grandpa will not say anything to anyone in defense of him, because 'staying out of it' has been how he has managed to live with his Grandma for so long. He is laid back, almost to a fault.
So cutting off contact with his family means losing contact with his Grandpa. That hurts me just thinking of it, because I know how much he means to Scott. And I hate that we are put in this position! Really sweet people are so hard to find that when you do manage to find one, you are so tempted to do whatever it takes to keep them in your life. At least thats how I feel.
Has anyone else here had to make the heartbreaking decision to cut off contact with someone they care about and who really cares back, just because they are a package deal with a toxic person? If so, did you ever find a way around it? Did it get easier? Or is it something you regret?
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
When XABF went into rehab, I had the opportunity to get to know his sister. He was always talking about how much he hated his sister, how judgmental she was, what a horrible person she was... In the time without him there, I actually started to get to know her...
Imagine my surprise when I discovered she was a loving, caring, thoughtful, generous person. She just never acted that way around XABF because he was always drunk near her. (Meanwhile, he blamed his drunkenness around her on how mean she was.)
This was the first time she had seen me without XABF around, and she was surprised to see how friendly, thoughtful, and fun I could be, too. We started calling each other all the time.
Then when I cut contact with XABF, I stopped calling her. She did call me once after that, to ask how I was doing and to see if I was in therapy, Al-Anon, getting the help that I needed - but she kept talking about how "I don't know if you care, but XABF is doing XYZ." It hurt, because I did care, but I cared too much, and every time it was mentioned it drew me back into the drama. After that one phone call, I decided not to call her again. I did offer to help her daughter move (she was moving into a condominium near my apartment), and she appreciated the offer, but never called me back to take me up on it, and I decided not to push the issue.
I do mourn the friendship that could have been...
That said, she is too close to the drama, and still too prone to being pulled back into it, and XABF is still my weakness, so I cannot allow myself to become close to someone who could potentially pull me back in.
I did try to talk her into going to some Al-Anon meetings with me back when I did speak to her constantly, and she knows which Al-Anon meeting I attend every week, and I haven't changed my phone number (plus her number is the only one from XABF's family that I haven't blocked)... She can contact me if she wants, and I will talk to her. That said, I am not going to call her, because it is too dangerous for me and my recovery.
I still miss her.
I hope she's doing well.
Imagine my surprise when I discovered she was a loving, caring, thoughtful, generous person. She just never acted that way around XABF because he was always drunk near her. (Meanwhile, he blamed his drunkenness around her on how mean she was.)
This was the first time she had seen me without XABF around, and she was surprised to see how friendly, thoughtful, and fun I could be, too. We started calling each other all the time.
Then when I cut contact with XABF, I stopped calling her. She did call me once after that, to ask how I was doing and to see if I was in therapy, Al-Anon, getting the help that I needed - but she kept talking about how "I don't know if you care, but XABF is doing XYZ." It hurt, because I did care, but I cared too much, and every time it was mentioned it drew me back into the drama. After that one phone call, I decided not to call her again. I did offer to help her daughter move (she was moving into a condominium near my apartment), and she appreciated the offer, but never called me back to take me up on it, and I decided not to push the issue.
I do mourn the friendship that could have been...
That said, she is too close to the drama, and still too prone to being pulled back into it, and XABF is still my weakness, so I cannot allow myself to become close to someone who could potentially pull me back in.
I did try to talk her into going to some Al-Anon meetings with me back when I did speak to her constantly, and she knows which Al-Anon meeting I attend every week, and I haven't changed my phone number (plus her number is the only one from XABF's family that I haven't blocked)... She can contact me if she wants, and I will talk to her. That said, I am not going to call her, because it is too dangerous for me and my recovery.
I still miss her.
I hope she's doing well.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Marie,
There is a lot of drama in your life because of all this family nonsense.
It doesn't have to be that way.
We strive here to find peace for OURSELVES, regardless of what the nutterbutters are doing around us.
Go ahead a take a step away from those in the family that make you feel upset.
Continue to connect with those that you enjoy (like Grandpa).
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, nor a big, dramatic, "we're disowning you!" type of deal.
Just say no thanks and take a step back.
Your work, should you choose it, is to not LET them make YOU upset when they go crazy on you.
They can freak out.
They can blame and grump and judge.
That's okay.
Their "stuff" doesn't have to IN ANY WAY effect your peace of mind.
You can also do the "I'm sure if I did x they would do y and then..." and that doesn't help either. That is making MORE drama when it doesn't even exist yet! So, stay in the present moment. "What can I do for myself RIGHT NOW that would bring peace?"
Take your peace back.
That's the work for us codependents.
When you catch yourself angry and resentful and defensive and just plain ruffled (I've heard it called spinning), realize that is YOUR work. That you LET them get under your skin.
Then breathe, and let them out, and do something nice for yourself.
And check out Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. She helped me a lot.
p
There is a lot of drama in your life because of all this family nonsense.
It doesn't have to be that way.
We strive here to find peace for OURSELVES, regardless of what the nutterbutters are doing around us.
Go ahead a take a step away from those in the family that make you feel upset.
Continue to connect with those that you enjoy (like Grandpa).
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, nor a big, dramatic, "we're disowning you!" type of deal.
Just say no thanks and take a step back.
Your work, should you choose it, is to not LET them make YOU upset when they go crazy on you.
They can freak out.
They can blame and grump and judge.
That's okay.
Their "stuff" doesn't have to IN ANY WAY effect your peace of mind.
You can also do the "I'm sure if I did x they would do y and then..." and that doesn't help either. That is making MORE drama when it doesn't even exist yet!
So, stay in the present moment. "What can I do for myself RIGHT NOW that would bring peace?"Take your peace back.
That's the work for us codependents.
When you catch yourself angry and resentful and defensive and just plain ruffled (I've heard it called spinning), realize that is YOUR work. That you LET them get under your skin.
Then breathe, and let them out, and do something nice for yourself.
And check out Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. She helped me a lot.
p
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
I appreciate your post, FindingPeace (great name, BTW!). The problem is that none of this directly involves me, although it is all about me. None of these people have ever done anything but be two faced. They all act sweet to my face, but go behind my back and tell lies about me to anyone who will listen. The only reason I know this is because my man cares enough about me to be honest, as he knows how stupid and hurt I would feel if I believed they really liked me, but they didn't.
It is so bad that I could hear his grandma talking on the phone to him, saying a bunch of stuff that isn't true, like "she doesn't do anything around the house and you are stuck watching her kids all the time." That is so completely untrue that he started laughing and said "are you serious?". When I started talking to him loudly, asking for the phone so I could speak to her myself, she actually told him "tell her to keep her two cents out of this!" It is so frustrating! In two years, I have never been able to say a word in my own defense, because nobody is brave enough to talk to me because they know all they have is lies.
Because of this, *I* don't actually have a relationship with his grandpa, although I wish I did. I have just heard stories about how nice he is, and I have seen how he goes out of his way to help other people. The few times I have seen him, he has been very nice to me. But his mom and grandma have done everything they can to exclude me, so I don't have the chance to 'connect' with anyone on his side of the family. It's pretty lonely. And I know that if he cuts off contact with his very hateful Grandma, (who actually told his Grandpa that she wished he would hurry up and die because she couldnt deal with taking care of him) then I will get blamed for him cutting off his Grandpa too, by default. Not because he wants to, but because they are all a package deal.
It is so bad that I could hear his grandma talking on the phone to him, saying a bunch of stuff that isn't true, like "she doesn't do anything around the house and you are stuck watching her kids all the time." That is so completely untrue that he started laughing and said "are you serious?". When I started talking to him loudly, asking for the phone so I could speak to her myself, she actually told him "tell her to keep her two cents out of this!" It is so frustrating! In two years, I have never been able to say a word in my own defense, because nobody is brave enough to talk to me because they know all they have is lies.
Because of this, *I* don't actually have a relationship with his grandpa, although I wish I did. I have just heard stories about how nice he is, and I have seen how he goes out of his way to help other people. The few times I have seen him, he has been very nice to me. But his mom and grandma have done everything they can to exclude me, so I don't have the chance to 'connect' with anyone on his side of the family. It's pretty lonely.
And I know that if he cuts off contact with his very hateful Grandma, (who actually told his Grandpa that she wished he would hurry up and die because she couldnt deal with taking care of him) then I will get blamed for him cutting off his Grandpa too, by default. Not because he wants to, but because they are all a package deal. Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by SCOTTandMARIE
The problem is that none of this directly involves me, although it is all about me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
It isn't all about you...
It's all about them.
There is help here if you'll have it, listen to it, and act on it. Read the sticky's above, and more than anything take YOURSELF to an Alanon meeting. Your posts are all about him, his family, his mother,his sister, and none of them are about you, how you got yourself into two screwed up relationships in a row, and how your life is today (and make no mistake, as wonderful as Scott may be he came with all this baggage that you gladly signed up for).
I'm going to give you some advice you can ignore or take:
1. Go to at least six different Alanon meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you.
2. When you read posts here do not respond to them right away. In fact, read them twice, then log off and think about what you read for 30 minutes or more. Then, if you are compelled to respond, please do so.
3. Focus on yourself and your part in the dynamics you described in this post, and focus on what is and is not your business in that context.
4. Let Scott, who is an adult, manage his own damned relationship with his family. He's not a child, and you're not his mother. Stop mothering him for God's sake!
You do a lot of talking for Scott, and even included him in your name here, but I don't hear his voice in these posts. I hear yours. The fact that he doesn't have his own account here, or that you don't have your own account here (unless this is really just your account), is problematic.
Here: How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico
Take what you want and leave the rest,
Cyranoak
There is help here if you'll have it, listen to it, and act on it. Read the sticky's above, and more than anything take YOURSELF to an Alanon meeting. Your posts are all about him, his family, his mother,his sister, and none of them are about you, how you got yourself into two screwed up relationships in a row, and how your life is today (and make no mistake, as wonderful as Scott may be he came with all this baggage that you gladly signed up for).
I'm going to give you some advice you can ignore or take:
1. Go to at least six different Alanon meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you.
2. When you read posts here do not respond to them right away. In fact, read them twice, then log off and think about what you read for 30 minutes or more. Then, if you are compelled to respond, please do so.
3. Focus on yourself and your part in the dynamics you described in this post, and focus on what is and is not your business in that context.
4. Let Scott, who is an adult, manage his own damned relationship with his family. He's not a child, and you're not his mother. Stop mothering him for God's sake!
You do a lot of talking for Scott, and even included him in your name here, but I don't hear his voice in these posts. I hear yours. The fact that he doesn't have his own account here, or that you don't have your own account here (unless this is really just your account), is problematic.
Here: How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico
Take what you want and leave the rest,
Cyranoak
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
Wow Cyranoak, you managed to make some really huge (and completely unfair and untrue) assumptions about me.
First of all, I made our name 'Scott and Marie' because he is on this account too. I am NOT posting without his knowledge or permission. He is usually right next to me when I am typing, and he has also sat down and read all of these responses. If you had asked "does he read this forum too?" I would have told you all of this, but I had thought the name "Scott AND Marie" would have been enough! I am not talking *for* him, I am talking *with* him. He gets very frustrated when he types, so he always asks me to do it since I am a lot faster.
Second, "two screwed up relationships in a row?" Where the heck did you come up with that? I was with my ex-husband for 12 years. We divorced simply because we had been together since we were 15, and in those 12 years we had made a lot of changes, and had simply become very different people. Because I had been with him for so long, he had become very controlling, but I think that was just because he wanted me to be the person that was right for him, but I had grown into a person that wasn't. That tends to happen when you marry very young, like I did.
My relationship with Scott is NOT screwed up! He is my best friend, and we have so much respect for each other. How on earth did you make that assumption?
And I did not 'sign up' for all this drama with his family. I wrote all about his family because his family IS the cause of all of our stress! He did not come with baggage. If you had read my post (really read it and comprehended it, which is very clear that you did not take that time before responding), you would have known that K and I were best friends UNTIL her son told her that he had fallen in love with me.
Scott does manage his own relationship with his family, or did you just not read the part where I said they never confront me with all the crap they are saying about me? I do not "mother" him, and I am really confused as to why you think I do.
And please, do not tell me how to read and respond to the forum, because it is apparent to me that you did not read any of my posts twice before you responded, otherwise you wouldnt have come up with so many wrong assumptions.
And we will be starting Al-Anon meetings, probably tomorrow if he gets off work in time.
First of all, I made our name 'Scott and Marie' because he is on this account too. I am NOT posting without his knowledge or permission. He is usually right next to me when I am typing, and he has also sat down and read all of these responses. If you had asked "does he read this forum too?" I would have told you all of this, but I had thought the name "Scott AND Marie" would have been enough! I am not talking *for* him, I am talking *with* him. He gets very frustrated when he types, so he always asks me to do it since I am a lot faster.
Second, "two screwed up relationships in a row?" Where the heck did you come up with that? I was with my ex-husband for 12 years. We divorced simply because we had been together since we were 15, and in those 12 years we had made a lot of changes, and had simply become very different people. Because I had been with him for so long, he had become very controlling, but I think that was just because he wanted me to be the person that was right for him, but I had grown into a person that wasn't. That tends to happen when you marry very young, like I did.
My relationship with Scott is NOT screwed up! He is my best friend, and we have so much respect for each other. How on earth did you make that assumption?
And I did not 'sign up' for all this drama with his family. I wrote all about his family because his family IS the cause of all of our stress! He did not come with baggage. If you had read my post (really read it and comprehended it, which is very clear that you did not take that time before responding), you would have known that K and I were best friends UNTIL her son told her that he had fallen in love with me.
Scott does manage his own relationship with his family, or did you just not read the part where I said they never confront me with all the crap they are saying about me? I do not "mother" him, and I am really confused as to why you think I do.
And please, do not tell me how to read and respond to the forum, because it is apparent to me that you did not read any of my posts twice before you responded, otherwise you wouldnt have come up with so many wrong assumptions.
And we will be starting Al-Anon meetings, probably tomorrow if he gets off work in time.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
yes, when you have an enmeshed family system, it is hard or impossible to break. first off, they certainly don't recognize it as unhealthy - they think they "love" each other.
you cannot change these people's minds - it takes a long time of opening your ears and listening to the truth. i'm sorry this is so crazy-making. wow. sorry.
you cannot change these people's minds - it takes a long time of opening your ears and listening to the truth. i'm sorry this is so crazy-making. wow. sorry.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi marie and scott-
i'm glad you found us. the situation you are describing must be very draining. i've been in the situation before to have to cut toxic people out of my life. one was my father, so i understand the pain involved in having to make such a decision.
for myself, i had tried every avenue of reasonable conversation for three decades with him. he just wouldn't stop approaching, meddling and trying to control.
it was a tough decision, but it was the right one for me. my life became my own, the day i ceased communication. it was a huge relief.
the fallout, tho, was that most of my family and relatives didn't understand. they started acting weird around me. when he died and i didn't go to the funeral, they acted weirder.
however, through it all, my mother stuck by me. we set up a private email for her so that the two of us could communicate still. we worked together around it. she said she understood, she loved me.
the second toxic person i removed was my alcoholic boyfriend. when i did this, i had to let go of many of our common friends and also, his family. not because they were toxic but because they kept me informed of his actions, which i did not want to know about. they also informed him of my actions, which was dangerous for me.
it's not easy, but i have no regrets. it was the best decision for me. i really had tried my best to communicate in a loving way, but there simply was no audience for that.
i also wanted to let you know that it is quite common for the alcoholic to find a scapegoat for the problems they themselves have created. from what you have described, it sounds as if scott's mother has made you the scapegoat. this is the alcoholic's way of not facing the consequences of their drinking and permits them to keep drinking. it's part of the denial that goes along with alcoholism.
i feel you two are making a wise decision to go no contact with the mother and the grandmother. obviously, the grandmother too is in denial, very common with family of alcoholics.
perhaps consider changing your phone number altogether and getting a new one. i would imagine that once the two of you get some distance (and peace) from them, you will see the situation a lot clearer. i know i did.
i do feel some concern for the 13 year old growing up in this environment. with respect to her, perhaps consider letting her know that you are there for her, should she need some support or a break and create a private avenue for her to contact you. perhaps you have a trusted friend who would be willing to be the go-between and if the young girl wants to reach you, should could contact the friend, who would then call you. this will keep your phone number secret.
alcoholism is a progressive disease and without whole-hearted recovery, it will get worse for scott's mother. the young girl could be put in danger. my alcoholic would forget to turn off the oven, drop cigarettes on the carpet, drive drunk, etc.
lastly, i too recommend alanon. i agree with cyranoak, you are two people and each one of you is individually responsible for your emotional well-being and personal choices. it could happen that one of you benefits from alanon and it isn't for the other. scott's emotional ties will be much deeper, as he grew up with them and the effects of the alcoholism further reaching in his life.
that said, it would be a wonderful journey to take together, as you can support and help each other.
naive
i'm glad you found us. the situation you are describing must be very draining. i've been in the situation before to have to cut toxic people out of my life. one was my father, so i understand the pain involved in having to make such a decision.
for myself, i had tried every avenue of reasonable conversation for three decades with him. he just wouldn't stop approaching, meddling and trying to control.
it was a tough decision, but it was the right one for me. my life became my own, the day i ceased communication. it was a huge relief.
the fallout, tho, was that most of my family and relatives didn't understand. they started acting weird around me. when he died and i didn't go to the funeral, they acted weirder.
however, through it all, my mother stuck by me. we set up a private email for her so that the two of us could communicate still. we worked together around it. she said she understood, she loved me.
the second toxic person i removed was my alcoholic boyfriend. when i did this, i had to let go of many of our common friends and also, his family. not because they were toxic but because they kept me informed of his actions, which i did not want to know about. they also informed him of my actions, which was dangerous for me.
it's not easy, but i have no regrets. it was the best decision for me. i really had tried my best to communicate in a loving way, but there simply was no audience for that.
i also wanted to let you know that it is quite common for the alcoholic to find a scapegoat for the problems they themselves have created. from what you have described, it sounds as if scott's mother has made you the scapegoat. this is the alcoholic's way of not facing the consequences of their drinking and permits them to keep drinking. it's part of the denial that goes along with alcoholism.
i feel you two are making a wise decision to go no contact with the mother and the grandmother. obviously, the grandmother too is in denial, very common with family of alcoholics.
perhaps consider changing your phone number altogether and getting a new one. i would imagine that once the two of you get some distance (and peace) from them, you will see the situation a lot clearer. i know i did.
i do feel some concern for the 13 year old growing up in this environment. with respect to her, perhaps consider letting her know that you are there for her, should she need some support or a break and create a private avenue for her to contact you. perhaps you have a trusted friend who would be willing to be the go-between and if the young girl wants to reach you, should could contact the friend, who would then call you. this will keep your phone number secret.
alcoholism is a progressive disease and without whole-hearted recovery, it will get worse for scott's mother. the young girl could be put in danger. my alcoholic would forget to turn off the oven, drop cigarettes on the carpet, drive drunk, etc.
lastly, i too recommend alanon. i agree with cyranoak, you are two people and each one of you is individually responsible for your emotional well-being and personal choices. it could happen that one of you benefits from alanon and it isn't for the other. scott's emotional ties will be much deeper, as he grew up with them and the effects of the alcoholism further reaching in his life.
that said, it would be a wonderful journey to take together, as you can support and help each other.
naive
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