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that doesn't fix everything...

Old 05-01-2011, 07:45 PM
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that doesn't fix everything...

so its been like a month..my husband has stopped drinking, he deleted his facebook (which he was using to hit on other women), i check his phone regularly and nothings been on there (other then messages to friends saying "no man i cant i quit drinking.", "i dont think its appropriate for us to talk anymore" etc.). this is great! really thats what i wanted to happen. he's going to therapy too. wonderful!

but that doesn't fix all our problems. that doesnt erase all the past hurts, the lies, the unfaithfulness. i still can't TRUST him yet..not after everything he's put me through...not in such a short amount of time.

but he thinks it does fix everything. he hasnt changed to way he treats me, he hasnt started helping around the house, he still doesnt communicate well with me. but he thinks i should be happy now. "everythings fine now. im different now..stop worrying about the past. you should be happy."

Whaaaa? stop worry about the sexting goin on 4 weeks ago?! stop worrying about the bills we are still behind on thanks to you?! stop being heartbroken about something that happend a WHOLE MONTH ago?!

He's insane. he doesn't want to talk about the past at all ever...well how are we supposed to work these issues out if you wont talk about it, or basically pretend it never happend.

its a stair case not an escalater, you can't just take one step and ride on up to the top without any effort.

i want him to fight for me...but i guess he just doesn't care enough to do that.



ok. vent over...
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:08 PM
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Hey there....

Well, that was a whole lot about him... But what about you? How are you doing and feeling? What are you doing to take care of precious and special YOU?

It does take time to heal and recover... Both sides of the street. You have lots of feelings... And hurts and resentments... That are going to take time for YOU to process. Make no mistake... They are YOURS to process, not his to fix.

And that sucks, I know. I'm right there with you. Trying my best to deal with my anger, hurts and frustration ... I don't have any great answer on how to make those things heal quickly. I know that working my program is certainly helping settle me down and clear my mind to process my thoughts more rationally.

And FWIW... Checking his phone and keeping tabs on him... Takes away from focusing on you, and isn't going to help you one bit.

Take what you like and leave the rest!
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:24 PM
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Is there an alanon meeting in your area that you could attend? It's a very helpful program for those of us affected by another's drinking. Even if they aren't drinking at the moment, it might be worth looking into, to help you deal with the resentments, anger, and expectations that come with living with this disease.

Just quitting drinking is usually not the end all to problems. Alot of times it opens up a whole new can of worms. And all change, even for the better, takes time, and is difficult. But if one wants it enough, it is attainable. Are you sure he wants it as bad as you do?
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:33 PM
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Let him know that while you are happy that his recovery is making such good progress, yours is taking more time. You have been hurt and you need to learn trust him again. it is going to take as long as it takes. You have to go through a process. Keep focusing on yourself and encourage him to focus on his own recovery.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:34 PM
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i guess i forget about myself sometimes because everybody in my life does too. i have no family or friends really...i just have his family to talk to and they of course focus on him. so i guess i feel...completely alone.

and i know he can't fix my hurts...but since he's not just my husband but my only family and my best friend, i just want him to care that i'm hurt, or comfort me. but he acts like its stupid for me to still be upset. thats what bothers me i guess.

i need therapy too i guess...but since i'm in school to BE a therapist its hard. like if i can't deal with this by myself how am i supposed to be able to help others deal with their problems. thats a dumb thing to think but i can't help it.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:43 PM
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Well, you have US... And we care about you. And if you went to al-anon, you'd find a room full of real, live, in the flesh people who would care about you too!!!


I understand right where you are... Keeping reaching out... YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Going to him for emotional support is a waste of your time and energy. He is just not in a place right now to give that to you. He's a hardware store right now, and you're looking for bread... But you won't find it where you keep looking!!
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:34 PM
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Hi CAS! My degree is in psychology and I wanted to become a MFCC, but I took another route in life because I was ready to get married and wanted to buy a house. SO I totally understand where you are coming from, but we are like everyone else and need help at times. Would you tell a doctor not to go see another doctor when they are sick? What a T brings is experience, guidance and are a person you can trust to help you see through a difficult point in your life. Just because you need some help now doesn't mean you would not make a great T someday. In fact it may make you a better one.

Your AH may love you enough to fight for you but as long he is not in recovery you may never really know. One month of no drinking in my opinion is not long enough for the bottle to be out of the picture. It really isn't about you, it is about his illness. That is a hard one for me to get. I have years of hurt built up and I can tell you that I need for him to get that before we will ever be able to repair our relationship. Just today he wanted to "talk" because he is not happy (I have pulled away from him and all the drama that comes with his illness) and one of the first things he said to me was "you are still mad at me because of your birthday"..... as if it was about time I get over it. I explained to him in as few words as I could find that I have MANY hurts that still need to be healed and until we are able to deal with them I can not get over them. We can not deal with them because he continues to be an active A. We tried MC and all that came out of that was he needs to work on his issues (and I need to work on mine) before anything can heal in our relationship. Until your husband is in recovery I think this would apply to you too.

It would be very nice for them if we could just sweep our feelings under a rug but we can't and shouldn't. Once our AH are in true recovery then they will be more accepting and understanding of why we can't and will work to make things better... and if they never make it to being in recovery? Then they will never get "IT".

If you haven't already done so go to Alanon and also read Codependence No More. Both really have helped me understand what is going on and to focus on what I can do to be happy and find some serenity.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:12 PM
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Al-anon, al-anon, al-anon.

Check into it. It's a lifesaver. Doesn't matter if your A is in recovery or still drinking, al-anon, al-anon, al-anon.

Sorry if I repeat myself but seriously. al-anon.

Originally Posted by confusedandsad View Post
i guess i forget about myself sometimes because everybody in my life does too. i have no family or friends really...i just have his family to talk to and they of course focus on him. so i guess i feel...completely alone.

and i know he can't fix my hurts...but since he's not just my husband but my only family and my best friend, i just want him to care that i'm hurt, or comfort me. but he acts like its stupid for me to still be upset. thats what bothers me i guess.

i need therapy too i guess...but since i'm in school to BE a therapist its hard. like if i can't deal with this by myself how am i supposed to be able to help others deal with their problems. thats a dumb thing to think but i can't help it.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:37 PM
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WOW cynical one. I see how you got your name.

IMO I think you are just going to pour water on her seeds of distrust. What purpose does that serve?

OP, only your husband can determine if his recovery program is right for him. To get involved in it is codependency. When we're with an alcoholic, we need to be with people who understand our experiences. We need to work on our own recovery. It's not all about him.

Nobody on this forum can say whether your husband is trustworthy or not. How badly do you want your relationship to work?

Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
You don't mention that he is regularly seeing a therapist, counselor, addictionologist, going to meetings, having a sponsor, working the steps, doing service work, or receiving any kind of help. Without a program of recovery at best he's just abstinent and white knuckling it, at worst he's just hiding his drinking and womanizing better.

And yes, he may have shut down his Facebook account with his name on it, but that doesn't mean he didn't open one under another name. Many college kids do this around graduation time so future employers can't find them…he's more than likely bright enough to do the same.

Same with the text messages, if he knows you snoop, again I'm sure he's bright enough to now delete anything incriminating and send out bogus ones to his buds. We do teach them well how to be even sneakier in covering their tracks.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:19 AM
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In which case, then all people should end their marriages with their As in recovery, right?

Cuz all A's lie and will continue to lie. And their spouses can never trust them. Come on. Anyone who's in recovery deserves a chance.



Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
The purpose it serves is so she doesn't get blindsided again like she was when she found out he was lying, drinking and cheating. And, at this point she has no reason to trust him.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:49 AM
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i did actually mention that he is seeing a thearapist. he also has an appt with a pyschiatrist. I do 100% believe he is working towards bettering himself. he was miserable and he wants to change his life. of course he could easily go right back to it but he's trying. and he may have messed up already and hidden it from me... but i would know if he was drinking everyday etc. like before..and like i said i know he's trying if nothing else.

its just frustrating me i suppose that while he's trying to get better he is unable to help me get better too...since he is the one i've always counted on to be there...before like 7 months ago. so this post was meant to be more about my relationship problems that can't be resolved yet and how sucky it is to not have him "be there" for me....i didn't want to discuss his drinking/womanizing or lack there of.

at this point nothing can suprise or "blindside" me anyways.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by confusedandsad View Post
so this post was meant to be more about my relationship problems that can't be resolved yet and how sucky it is to not have him "be there" for me
So sorry you're going through this. I realized in my own relationship that my ABF will never be able to "be there" for me as I need him to be, as long as turning to the bottle for his own comfort is always an option for him. We tried couple counseling with a marriage and family therapist with an addiction and substance abuse subspecialty, and my ABF was abstinent for 2 months, but without wanting to stop drinking FOR HIMSELF, he wont ever fully be in recovery.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:44 AM
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by confusedandsad View Post
so its been like a month..my husband has stopped drinking, he deleted his facebook (which he was using to hit on other women), i check his phone regularly and nothings been on there (other then messages to friends saying "no man i cant i quit drinking.", "i dont think its appropriate for us to talk anymore" etc.). this is great! really thats what i wanted to happen. he's going to therapy too. wonderful!
I am a recovering 'check his phone, check the bank account, check his car etc... for evidence of his drinking/lying/cheating etc... All I can tell you is this: the more I focussed on re-assuring myself that he really WAS changing, the less able I was to function when he inevitably continued to act as alcoholics act before they are fully in recovery.

You sound like you want to believe "this is it" and he's really going to take this seriously and want to have hope. I've been there-- boy have I.

When he relapses (either by drinking, texting, lying etc... relapsing in my estimation is not about drinking-- it's the thinking and behaviors that happen
long before the drinking occurs), you're probably going to feel devastated bc you are focussing so much (understandably-- it's what we do after being with an alcoholic for so long) on him and attaching your life's happiness on him changing.

I did this too-- a lot-- for a LONG time. I still am miserable that I have had to give up on the idea of what my marriage was going to be and accept that since I can't accept AH as he is right now, that my only choice is to leave.

I wanted my AH to care enough about me, as you describe too, to want to get help, to want to change... As hard as it is to comprehend (I still have to wrap my head fully around this), for as long as there is active addiction (in thinking, behaving or drinking) he can't care about anyone or anything but his addiction and himself. He may love you immensely, but the addiction has a stronger hold on him.

I felt like you that because I couldn't trust him I needed to check up on him to see if he was being honest. All that did was probably encourage him to find new and better ways to be deceitful. My checking up on him did not help me trust him more-- it just made me crazy, obsessed and angrier about the fact that he'd lied so much and so often... Does checking his phone really make you feel better? I know for me it created anxiety for me-- I wondered what I might find and when I found nothing I wanted to be relieved but I never did-- probably bc I knew deep down that he was still being deceitful, just in ways I hadn't figured out yet.

...he thinks it does fix everything.... he hasnt changed to way he treats me, he hasnt started helping around the house, he still doesnt communicate well with me. but he thinks i should be happy now. "everythings fine now. im different now..stop worrying about the past. you should be happy."
That's not someone who is in recovery or being honest in any way. That's called "I want a medal for not drinking and everyone better tell me how great I am and make me feel good about myself". Maybe he's sober but that's not anything if he still behaves as he did when he was drinking. I thought that when my AH stopped drinking that was going to be the solution. It definitely wasn't.

Whaaaa? stop worry about the sexting goin on 4 weeks ago?! stop worrying about the bills we are still behind on thanks to you?! stop being heartbroken about something that happend a WHOLE MONTH ago?!
Your feelings don't matter (to him). He wants to put the past away, continue to act the same and continue to be "forgiven". Alcoholics don't like to be held accountable for their behavior so the easiest way to avoid looking at himself is to tell you that you're unreasonable and need to "move on" and forget about the past. You're not wrong for being hurt still. But talking to him about your hurt and expecting him to care is not going to result in what you hope it will for as long as he's active in his addiction.

He's insane. he doesn't want to talk about the past at all ever...well how are we supposed to work these issues out if you wont talk about it, or basically pretend it never happend.
"pretend it never happened" is my AH's life motto... He's not insane- he's an alcoholic and that's what they do. Doesn't excuse the crappy behavior or make it okay. But knowing that might help a bit to help you know it's not about you even though he will try valiantly to make you think it is.

i want him to fight for me...but i guess he just doesn't care enough to do that.
He probably doesn't have the ability to do that right now... It's not because of you. It's because he's an alcoholic and one who doesn't want to change. You can't do anything about that (but it took me several years of trying before I figured that out). What you can do is find a way to enjoy your life separate from his. I'm still trying to get to the "enjoy everyday" part of that equation but when I take it day by day I can find times each day that I enjoy and I am letting myself be okay with being sad when I am...

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's painful and confusing to live with and love an alcoholic and I would not wish it on anyone...
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:08 AM
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What she said...

...plus, as others have said, none of it means anything and nothing will change for you unless you start to look at why in the world you ended up here in the first place. That means Alanon, counseling, or both.

Keep an open mind and remember we've all been where you are right now and we just might know a little bit about how to start getting better. Try at least six Alanon meetings, some different, before deciding if it is for you. Here, I'll help you out:

How to find a meeting in the US/Canada/Puerto Rico

Take care, take what you want, and leave the rest.

Cyranoak

[QUOTE=wanttobehealthy;2954942]

I am a recovering 'check his phone, check the bank account, check his car etc... for evidence of his drinking/lying/cheating etc... All I can tell you is this: the more I focussed on re-assuring myself that he really WAS changing, the less able I was to function when he inevitably continued to act as alcoholics act before they are fully in recovery.

You sound like you want to believe "this is it" and he's really going to take this seriously and want to have hope. I've been there-- boy have I.

When he relapses (either by drinking, texting, lying etc... relapsing in my estimation is not about drinking-- it's the thinking and behaviors that happen
long before the drinking occurs), you're probably going to feel devastated bc you are focussing so much (understandably-- it's what we do after being with an alcoholic for so long) on him and attaching your life's happiness on him changing.

I did this too-- a lot-- for a LONG time. I still am miserable that I have had to give up on the idea of what my marriage was going to be and accept that since I can't accept AH as he is right now, that my only choice is to leave.

I wanted my AH to care enough about me, as you describe too, to want to get help, to want to change... As hard as it is to comprehend (I still have to wrap my head fully around this), for as long as there is active addiction (in thinking, behaving or drinking) he can't care about anyone or anything but his addiction and himself. He may love you immensely, but the addiction has a stronger hold on him.

I felt like you that because I couldn't trust him I needed to check up on him to see if he was being honest. All that did was probably encourage him to find new and better ways to be deceitful. My checking up on him did not help me trust him more-- it just made me crazy, obsessed and angrier about the fact that he'd lied so much and so often... Does checking his phone really make you feel better? I know for me it created anxiety for me-- I wondered what I might find and when I found nothing I wanted to be relieved but I never did-- probably bc I knew deep down that he was still being deceitful, just in ways I hadn't figured out yet.



That's not someone who is in recovery or being honest in any way. That's called "I want a medal for not drinking and everyone better tell me how great I am and make me feel good about myself". Maybe he's sober but that's not anything if he still behaves as he did when he was drinking. I thought that when my AH stopped drinking that was going to be the solution. It definitely wasn't.



Your feelings don't matter (to him). He wants to put the past away, continue to act the same and continue to be "forgiven". Alcoholics don't like to be held accountable for their behavior so the easiest way to avoid looking at himself is to tell you that you're unreasonable and need to "move on" and forget about the past. You're not wrong for being hurt still. But talking to him about your hurt and expecting him to care is not going to result in what you hope it will for as long as he's active in his addiction.



"pretend it never happened" is my AH's life motto... He's not insane- he's an alcoholic and that's what they do. Doesn't excuse the crappy behavior or make it okay. But knowing that might help a bit to help you know it's not about you even though he will try valiantly to make you think it is.



He probably doesn't have the ability to do that right now... It's not because of you. It's because he's an alcoholic and one who doesn't want to change. You can't do anything about that (but it took me several years of trying before I figured that out). What you can do is find a way to enjoy your life separate from his. I'm still trying to get to the "enjoy everyday" part of that equation but when I take it day by day I can find times each day that I enjoy and I am letting myself be okay with being sad when I am...

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's painful and confusing to live with and love an alcoholic and I would not wish it on anyone...
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by confusedandsad View Post
its just frustrating me i suppose that while he's trying to get better he is unable to help me get better too
Perhaps this is an indication that you need to re-examine the structure of your relationship with him. I had to do similar re-assessment with my XAH because our relationship started out as mutual codependence; XAH reinforced that in fact, telling me that I could depend on him for anything. Eventually though, it became clear that his priority was himself and that I had to learn to fend for myself. I think the most enlightening moment for me was when I realized that the only person who would help me is me, because XAH would never be up to the task, whether he was drinking or sober.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:07 AM
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IMHO - expecting anything right now is a recipe for hurt feelings and disappointment. You live in a different reality than he does right now. Reading about alcoholism and the effects can really help you understand where he is at; there are many good books out there. Al-Anon is a truly wonderful resource. If you are going to stay in the relationship, you need to look honestly at what is really happening, or as cynical one said, you may end up contributing to creating an even bigger monster.

I remember 9 months ago going to my first Al-Anon meeting mad as hell because everyone kept telling me I needed to work on myself. I thought "why? I am not the alcoholic!" It took a few months of meetings and a good therapist and lots of reading to come to the conclusion that most definitely I am part of this problem and I can do a lot of things to be a part of the solution or to make a bigger mess of it all.

There's a popular saying here and in Al-Anon - the three C's: you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. Took me a while to wrap my head around that one, too. But its true.

I can't recommend highly enough to find a meeting and keep coming here. Learn as much as you can about what you are dealing with. That's how you fix you.

Good luck!
~T
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:18 AM
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I remember 9 months ago going to my first Al-Anon meeting mad as hell because everyone kept telling me I needed to work on myself. I thought "why? I am not the alcoholic!" It took a few months of meetings and a good therapist and lots of reading to come to the conclusion that most definitely I am part of this problem and I can do a lot of things to be a part of the solution or to make a bigger mess of it all.
Replace "9 months" with "5 years" and I can ditto that statement.
Four weeks is a very short time.
My X was sober for 5 months. And then hit an even deeper bottom than before. Because he chose to think himself strong and abandon the support that had been, and still was, available to him.
But I still had my support. So while he's falling, I'm standing.

I'm not saying that to scare you. I'm saying it to remind you that you are a separate person, and you can live a rich, happy life whether or not your A is actively drinking. But to get there, you need to figure out how you got here.

Big hugs.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:23 AM
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Yeah,

its just frustrating me i suppose that while he's trying to get better he is unable to help me get better too

^ that, is not probably going to happen for a long, long, time...

In my experience, addicts and the addictive personality type is way too self involved to look over and take inventory of what you need. Even my RAH, in sobriety, does this as a means of bolstering his own self image, so it is a bit of a fake out. Like going through the motions.

Pull back on the magnifying glass,
Start looking at your own stuff, your own day.

We begin to heal in the tiniest ways, and one of those ways is to keep your day YOURS...

Not his, not the pasts, but yours. And we are generally (not as a rule..) but, generally, pretty crappy at doing that because we are so used to keeping our eyes on what they are up to, and whether their choices and actions are going to capsize our day, our life... It is your life and YOUR day.

decide each day whether you want to own your day or not, and then, when you feel your attention, your energy creeping over to what HE is doing, well...pull it the heck back.

And in this way, you are doing tiny healing, but it is cumulative.
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