BobbyJ

Some of you know, what a rocky road my life has been for 3 years with my daughter. Yesterday, we got to hang out together and I got to meet my new granddaughter for the first time. She is beautiful!! When I left she had lots of pink lipstick kisses.

I was nervous and had to think about during my 2 hour drive there. I kept on working my 12 steps in my head and saying the serenity prayer. I kept my mouth shut and listened during our visit. I was so proud of myself.

All day long the AH kept on calling me and left 12 texts on my phone. Friday I told him I was filing for divorce. So you can imagine, the weird things his messages said. I kept my phone shut off all during the day, with my daughter.
And listened to his messages on my way home. Sick..Sick..Sick Messages!

About midnight, my daughter calls me and really unloaded on me. This really caught me off guard. I got so numb, I just about threw up.

I have alot on my plate, and still trying to soak all of this in this morning..

She told me, that he was serving drinks when she was 14. And was sneaking her drinks. Where was I?

He would chase her around outside and inside the house.
I asked her...like for fun?..
She said, your trying to cover up for him. I told her no, Im just trying to understand. I never seen this. She said it is different than her being chased around by her real dad. She said he would never stop chasing, the only way she get him to stop is to run to her room.
WHERE WAS I???...she said..You were at work or busy doing other things mom!

The night he took her to a bar when she was 17. He told me he bought her one drink, she told me it was 4. And yes, he was drunk, when the other guys
tried to beat him up for having his hands around her waist.

She said, I have told you enough for tonight, we will talk about this later.
She told me, she likes to drink whiskey, and realizes this. She is aware of this and will only have 2 here and there.

Her husband came from a alcoholic father also. So the 2 of them, have a real understanding of alcohol and are very close & open with the situation. She said they both understand the damage of alcohol and neither one of them will allow that around their daughter.

So here I sit today thinking, where the hell was I? Omg..I could vomit. How do I feel? Is it all real? Did it really happen to her? Is it all her imagination? Did it really happen or is this what happens to children living with an alcoholic, does their minds play games? Where do I start? What do I do?
If it didnt happen, what makes her feel this way? How did I not see all of this?

I could just vomit......Never thought one of my kids would feel this way
Here I thought...I was always the "perfect mom"

Im very close with my son who is in college. She would like the 3 of us to go to counseling. She said when she started counseling, she never realized how much anger (not hate) she had inside of her and feels it would be good for my son to go too. He is not a angry person, but she thinks he might have it deep inside of himself and not even know it, like she did...

We both agreed that the past is the past, we only have the future together.
But we will work on these things as part of our healing. She is excited for me to get the divorce final. She told me, "Mom, you have your kids in your heart and life, we will support you all they way. You have the chance to enjoy life and be you again, please tell me, you wont go back to that. If you do, I will be gone again"

I was never raised in a alcoholic home...so I dont understand what all of this means or what I am suppose to do with all of this....

Suggestions - Comments - Thoughts - Direction ~ PLEASE!!!
And please DO NOT WALK LIGHTLY with your words!!!
The only thing I like sugar coated is donuts...LET IT RIP!!

Tuffgirl

BobbyJ, first of all I am so glad you got to see your granddaughter! And you got to put your recovery tools in place. But then got the verbal vomit, oh my!

And I call it that because that's usually how it happens - just open your mouth and spew all over someone.

Remember how I brought up triggers? You are a trigger for her right now. You won't always be, but right now, you are. And she is hurting. And she needs to be validated.

Who would you tell me to believe? My daughter? Or my drunk husband (her step father)? I think you already know the answers to the questions you asked here. And its ok. You still are a great Mother. You are also a human being. Who makes the best judgment calls she can with the information she has to work with.

I think counseling is a great idea! It will allow for a facilitated sharing of the past as well as learning some new tools to deal with each other better in the future. Good for your daughter for suggesting it! She is doing her own work...

Thumper

I'm so sorry you have so much serious stuff to think about My thoughts after reading your post are....

As a parent I've told my children I will always believe them. They can tell me anything and I will believe them. You don't have to figure it all out on your own. Your daughter requested counseling and I'd jump on that excellent idea.
There are three 'rules' in an alcoholic home. Do not trust, do not talk, do not feel. Your daughter is doing her own recovery and she has offered you a valuable gift with the request for counseling.

You've filed for divorce. Your lawyer can tell him or his lawyer that all communication will go through him from now on and then delete every message he sends before listening to it. That is what I would do.

BobbyJ

3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.

This is listed on the ACOA sticky...

I do believe her 100%, that this is her feelings...
But how do I believe its all the truth?

Like him sneaking her drinks...How come I never seen this???
I just cant imagine, that I did not see this

She said told me, she hopes he dies alone...
And I have the memories in my head, with all of us having fun & laughing together.
Its so opposite, black to white, after all of these years.
And BOOM!!!
Here it is mom...

I know it is SOLID 210% I would NEVER stay married or remarry him
If for no other reason, this one alone....
I have cried and cried this morning, thinking of the beast, that damaged my little
girls mind...It's a good thing he has moved away, because I think I would be
wearing county orange, if he hadnt of moved..

MayaandMe

BobbyJ, I am so sorry you are going through this.

After I left my exabf, my daughter's father, I got quickly into a relationship with a nondrinker. He was kind and loving, or so I thought. Turns our he was equally emotionally unavailable. He moved in with me after about a year, and when I was at work and he was at the house with my daughter (and the nanny) he would be mean to her. He only once chose to yell at her in front of me, and that was the end of that relationship, THANK GOD! But, I am stuck with the guilt and the questions about how many times it happened, to what extent it happened, etc. Actually seeing one incident of him yelling at my daughter was enough for him to lose ALL of my respect.

I know what it feels like to have trusted someone and to have been so betrayed by them. And then also, to feel the guilt of not protecting my daughter when I believed I was doing just that.
I am an ACOA, and I may be an exception, but I do not lie often. Perhaps a "white lie" here or there, but definitely don't do it when it is just as easy to tell the truth. Actually, it is one of the things I can least tolerate in other people. So just like everything else, we cannot assume.
In my opinion, maybe your daughter was feeling like she could open up to you. That could be because of your letter and your efforts to rebuild the relationship with her, maybe she felt that she could finally tell you these things.
When I finally told my mom about some abuse that I had suffered as a child, she took it very personally and has never spoken to me about it since. I did not tell her in an effort to hurt her, actually I wanted her to understand me better.
Maybe, if you were to take her up on the idea of family counseling, all of your worries and questions could come out in a safe a productive way.

Take care of yourself. I know it seems like more that you can handle, but I believe HP gives us what we need when we are ready.

Grnmtn1

I know all of this has to be overwhelming right now and something you would like to sweep away. But, it's happened and your daughter has opened up to you and must trust and love you enough to work through this together. She has given you both the opportunity to work through this and to move forward in your lives. I'm sure it will be really scary to try and walk through, but once you do it, it will most likely bring you even closer.

I too believe we are given only what we can handle and the universe will give us what we need, when we need it. You can also lean on us to help you through the process. You are a good mom, you did the best that you could and will continue to do your best. Hopefully through counselling together, you can unload some of the luggage and feel better.

Buffalo66

BobbyJ,

Hi.
I read your post, and, I can see how much pain you are in, and you dont have to let it all sink in and hit at once.

Why was he chasing her? What does this imply? Was he drunk and playing with her, but didnt know she was scared, or was she a young adult and he was pursuing her? I just feel confused by what she was saying, need to clarify, if you can...

having said that,

I was sexually and physically assaulted by my REAL father when I was 12. He was an alcoholic with serious health issues, and was heavily medicated. He was an upstanding and respected member of our community, and regarded highly as a selfless family man, with six kids, etc.

He died of serious health issues at 42 years old, when I was 13.

The assault was sexual,psychological... and all the other alcoholic chaos took a back seat for me.
From the time I was 18, when I told my mom and family about it, until I was 30, my family and brothers and sisters denied it, and I was made to feel like I was blackening my fathers name.

My mom was a "good mom". What else can you say, she did the best she could with six kids and a physically sick addict husband. She had to work, do the housekeeping, and manage her ridiculously sick and selfish husbands addiction inher codie fashion. She did what she could. She only had so much information.

BUt, when i was 30 years old, after years of therapy, counseling, spiritual work...I had almost completely processed through it all, when my next eldest sister had her first memories. She was the golden child in our family, and is a health professional, was religious, did everything right.

Her memories came out of a life changing emotional/mental breakdown that led her to the hospital where she literally vomitted up the memories. She had to seek emergency psych help to process through the emergence of the memories.

To my mom, my sisters, etc,BEFORE my sister had her episodes... my version of a chaotic, hellish, frightful childhood were flights of exagerrated fancy, and I was overly sensitive and selfish.

After my sister came out with her story in a family counseling session that she and I orchestrated, they all sort of took to their posts. Myeldest sister, reserves the right o believe that the father SHE had, before he became overtaken with alcoholism and illness was HER father, but she gives credence and support.
My next eldest sister does not belive our truth, but she and we are very close, and that is just NOT on the table for discussion.

My mom, has tried to make her amends when she was sober, having done some soul searching, trying to understand how this could go on without her knowing, and honestly, she came to admit that she was in 100% constant full blown adrenalin fed survival mode most of the time, and denial was tantamount as a coping mechanism.
The man she loved and grieved over was a monster, and now he was dead and she cannot even hold him responsible.

My mom and I talk (or could before she relapsed) about this often...She will say, "I did not have Oprah in my life, we were not having healthy options broadcast all over the place, it was just survival, and you dont want to look at this mountain of chaos. You cant take it in"

I was not supported in what REALLY happened in my early life, I have paid for that for years in therapy, and I have had the Amazing Grace of a form of vindication, in my sister coming to terms, and having the strength to speak out.

BUt, I often wonder how different things may have been had he not dies, had he stayed with us, and would/could I speak out? Would/Could I even have had the denial lift? Would I just still be acting out in unconscious denial, maybe a very promiscuous, or more troubled person?

I think your daughter is brave and smart and well emotionally organized to give herself this acknowledgement.

My RAH was beaten terribly by his mother. I believe him because some of his childhood friends witnessed it, and it was not just getting a smack by his mom...But, his brothers hold and attest to the idea that it just "wasnt that bad..." But he is the most damaged, most disordered, and broken.

Truth is, if it was terror for her, and frihtful, and she felt unsafe, then thats WHAT SHE FELT, aWHAT SHE EXPERIENCED...and while it may be common for a 17 year old to drink, it is NOT APPROPRIATE for that to occur at the hands of a "trusted "stepfather while he has his arm around her waist.

I would be very very careful of questioning her. Really, to what end would it serve her to make more of it than she actually experienced?

She is healing, She is inviting you to join her in that.

When my mother came to me and made amends for her neglecting to see my pain as a cry for help, and for even openly blaming me for things, I took it lightly at that moment, almost tried to let her off easy, but the pain and hurt that was released from bondage in her words really unraveled for me in the months that followed, and it was a very healing thing for her to support ME. REALLY SUPPORT ME>

I hope this helps somehow.

keepinon

The bad news is, your daughter is vomiting this on you..the good news is she feels comfortable enough now to vomit all over you..I'm sure it will be rough, but what I see is everything headed in a healing direction...you seem able to take it, and she seems willing to work on it.no matter who we are we do damage our kids.We also give them lots of good things as well.Awareness, Acceptance,Action..when we know better, we do better..this is all a process

SSIL75

This whole thing is kind of triggering for me so all I can really offer is this.

The amount of absolute BS you have to feed yourself in order to stay married to an abusve alcoholic (from your first post on this board) will drive you insane. It'll drive everyone in the house insane and rob them of their ability to see, act and remember clearly.

If your family was like mine, SHE was not the one perverting reality to keep the status quo. It was likely you, The Wife.

I would urge you to seek counseling for yourself so you can first discover what you're hiding and then hopefully, heal.

FTR I come to SR as an alcoholic in recovery but I am also an ACOA.

BobbyJ

[QUOTE=Buffalo66;2954242]BobbyJ,

Why was he chasing her? What does this imply? Was he drunk and playing with her, but didnt know she was scared, or was she a young adult and he was pursuing her? I just feel confused by what she was saying, need to clarify, if you can...

I asked her, do you mean playing chase? She said, Yes, but he never knew when to stop and most of the time he was drunk.
She said her real dad, chases/plays around too, but its different..

He became their stepdad when they were about 4 & 5. Last year when
my son & his friends were home, they all arm wrestling or body wrestle
each other. I always thought this was normal stuff dads did with their kids.
I never thought twice about it.

The part of.."HANDS ON WAIST" not normal. I do know that. I just found that out and am sick, sick, sick to my stomach...My own dad, never has put his arms around my waist...


SSIL75 my response to you:

I am afraid to ask her to much all in one day. This is the first time in 3 years
we have talked about it. She has kept the story, me and part of her life shut down over it..

I am afraid if I ask the wrong thing or say the wrong thing, she will shut
me out at the drop of a dime.

Yes, I wrote weird behaviors & verbal abuse in my previous post. But what she told me last night, was nothing compared to what was in my head when I wrote those words. Nothing. Last nights conversation, was a bomb. Completely not what I would ever expected her to feel or say. My definition of weird behaviors are nothing like she told me.

She told me, that she will share more with me later.

I am afraid, of what she has to say. As I have sat here today, cried
and vomited, I really dont want to hear no more. But I know it will
be part of her recovery and I will be there to support her all the way.
I am just sick, to think there is more to this story.

Damn it...

jds0401 My response to you:

About 2 years ago, we tried to talk, of course I QUESTIONED HER..She shut me down. Yesterday I listened...

Why did I listen this time?
Because I have been in a recovery program called Alanon & have just recently learned what alcoholics do and I have learned, that I became just as sick as he did. I have learned I cant fix the past of what I remembered or mis-remembered. I have learned to listen.....

I know last night was the big bomb, I really didnt expect this much on our first day back together. But like she said,,,there is more to come.
I hope God gives me enough strength to keep me upwards in this mess.

I just recently learned there is a big difference, in alcoholics compared to people who just have a few drinks...I am ashamed and sick to my stomach, that I never seen the difference until the year of 2011..


I will never shut her down with anything she has to say. I will always have a big heart and open ears. And yes, we will be going to counseling.

Trying to go thru a divorce with an alcoholic husband and the same week all of this........OMG

Buffalo66

Hey, I just want to add, that I also know how hard this is.

And I think you are brave, and be kind to yourself and your daughter.

I think its wonderful that she is opening to you, and in your earlier posts you were afraid that that was never going to happen, so your healing path is really on right now!

Goood work, and hang in there!

wanttobehealthy

I'm so sorry for all that is falling onto your shoulders to deal with right now. Don't beat yourself up for not knowing what your daughter is sharing with you. If I've learned anything from growing up in an abusive, dysfunctional (though not alcoholic) home, it's this: someone who is abusive chooses the timing of their abuse very carefully and probably plans pretty hard to make sure that the other parent is not aware. I know my father had his suspicions about what my mother did to me but he never saw a thing and never confronted her to my knowledge.

You did the best your could. You did not knowingly let your daughter be abused and you trusted what your H told you as anyone would (that it was 1 drink, not 4 for ex). I can understand your daughter's pain as an outsider who isn't hearing her pain as her mother. She just had a baby recently right? I know that when I had my D5, that's when a LOT of the vivid details of the abuse I grew up with started to hit me, hard. It might be that your daughter is struggling right now and confronting you because she is feeling a lot of old feelings stirred up now that she's a mom herself...

The best thing I think you can do right now is tell your daughter your truth-- that you love her, didn't know what she experienced and are sorry for her pain and be there for her as you are able and go from there...

I am so sorry-- reading your post made me so sad for you and your daughter-- my heart really goes out to you...

LaTeeDa

As an ACOA, I agree about the lying. I don't do it. My integrity is far too important to me.

But what I really want to say to you is this. I would give my right arm if my codependent mother would even consider that maybe there was something messed up about my childhood. If she would once even admit that she didn't know it all. If she could listen to me and hear my pain without denying it or blaming it on someone else. Of all things, that would be the greatest gift she could ever give. I believe your daughter sees you might be ready to lift the veil of denial that all alcoholic households live under. It seems to me she is hopeful that you have "seen the light" and want to join her in healing and recovery. I am hopeful for that, too. Especially since it looks like my mom will never get there.

L

ANEWAUGUST

(((Hugs to you)))

What a wonderful opportunity for you, and your daughter, your family to heal.

As she shares more with you, I am sure it might be extremely gut wrenching. Maybe, you could go to counseling, to have someone guide her thru what and how to say these things to you..and someone to help you express your feelings.

I know your daughter is doing the best she can in breaking down this wall...but, as an ACOA, I know there were some things that I had to share with my support group, and my counselor, not with my Mom. I had to get to a space where I realized she wasn't aware of what I was feeling about my Dad's actions.

I know this is all over whelming...but please remember, when this was happening you were doing the very best you could at that time, and now, you are doing the very best you can..

kittykitty

I think it's great that you had a nice visit with your family today, sorry it didn't end well. I agree with deleting the voicemails before you listen to them, just adds insult to injury at this point, why put yourself through the agony, right?

Perhaps the reason she brought this up now, other than finally being ready, is because she wants to be sure that you go through with the divorce. It may sound a little strange, but perhaps now that she knows you are not going to stay with him, it's a safe time to tell you why she has so much trouble with him, and with you being with him.

This is the only example I can think of, a woman will rarely tell her girlfriend what she thinks of her boyfriend until she knows they are breaking up... that's when the truth comes out. I hope this makes sense.

As far as where were you? You were doing the best you could with what you had. You can't change the past, but you can definitely work on the present, and it sounds like that is what she wants to do as well. Remember, you did the best you could. And many don't get a second chance, a chance to heal with their families after the fact.

You have a great opportunity here to make amends/work through this with your children, take advantage of it, when you are ready. You have alot on your plate right now, and the best way to get through it is to continue to focus on you, even after finding out what you found out. Sacrificing your recovery for the sake of your daughters by doing things you aren't comfortable with right now, might be too much at once. One day at a time, one thing at a time. Keep taking care of you!

Sylvie66

IMO, one of the best cures for heartache is sniffing a new baby's head....

- Sylvie

StarCat

I am right there with you, LaTeeDa.
I remember talking to people when I was in high school about how the stereotype was that parents desperately wanted their teenagers to talk to them and tell them what was going on in their lives... And adding that I was dying to tell my parents what was really going on but they weren't interested and didn't want to hear it.
But according to her, everything is somebody else's fault, and nothing I remember actually happened.

BobbyJ,
You are giving your daughter a wonderful gift. Two open ears and a closed mouth.
Validation and acceptance.
Love.

What she has to say may be very difficult for you to hear...
That said, it will help the healing begin/continue, and draw the two of you even closer together.

Your daughter is so lucky.

theuncertainty

Wow, Buffalo66, thank you for sharing your story.

(((((((BobbyJ)))))))), besides the feeling the horror, pain and guilt radiating from your post, this section of Buffalo's post is very similar to what struck me in relation to your daughter's sharing:

She finally felt safe enough to share some very uncomfortable, painful, scary information with you. That is amazing. BobbyJ, you did the best with what you had at the time. Please be as gentle with yourself as you will be with your daughter.

dbh

Hello.

I'm an ACA and got triggered a bit by this post. I felt compelled to share my own ESH. Not saying that any of this applies to your own situation, just sharing about my relationship with my mother.

My father was an alcoholic and my mother came from a non-drinking home. I was aware of my father's drinking problem at a pretty young age. He and my mother divorced when I was 15 years old.

Growing up we were taught to blame my father for all of our problems. He was the one who abandoned us, he chose alcohol over us, he didn't pay child support, etc. My mother was the "good parent". We owed everything to her. God knows what would have happened to us if it wasn't for her. I really did believe that I had the perfect mom and I felt lucky. However, there was parts of our relationship that didn't feel healthy. She would always invalidate our feelings. We weren't allowed to be angry, sad, or have any sort of negative emotions. We were suppose to always be happy and if we weren't happy we were sent to our room until we could come out with a smile on our face. I'm almost 50 and I still don't trust my own feelings and experiences.

My mother also can not take any responsibility for the bad things that happened in our family. It was my father's fault, it was our fault, or my stepfather's fault. Whenever I bring up anything that shines a negative light on her she gets REALLY defensive. She's great at giving us the silent treatment. She would also tend to put my sister, brother, and I against each other. It gives her a lot of control. She'll say that she likes to avoid conflict and does not address issues directly. If my mother is mad at me about something, I usually hear about it from my sister.

I was in my mid-thirties when I realized that BOTH my mother and father were not emotionally healthy and contributed to our family's dysfunction. When I figured this out, I tried to discuss it with my mother. I was determined to bring her out of denial and make her face all of her issues.

As you can imagine, it didn't go well. We went through periods where we didn't speak because I was so, so angry that she couldn't admit that she was a part of the problem too.

My mother is in her 70s and I have pretty much accepted the fact that she's not going to change. She wasn't raised by an alcoholic, but by a mother who was verbally abusive and who wanted all of her children to be perfect. This dysfunctional/non-drinking home affected my mother and I'm pretty sure it contributed to who she decided to marry.

Somewhere over the course of my own recovery I have decided to forgive both my parents and release them from all parental responsibilities. I truly do believe that they did the best they could. My childhood was far from perfect and it's sad, but I had to accept it for what it was and move on.

I'm learning to be my own loving parent now. I'm in charge of what I do with my recovery and ultimately the rest of my life.

As an ACA, it was easy for me to do my Step 1. Of course I was powerless over the affects of alcohol, I was born into a bad situation. However, as I did my Step 4 I truly had to sit back and look at how I too contributed to the dysfunction in my family of origin. I gossiped with my mom. I tried to control my brother and sister. It was extremely hard for me to admit that I too was wrong. However, seeing myself as part of the problem was humbling and healing. I think it helped me move forward in my own recovery. I no longer feel like I need to be perfect, just human.

Congratulations on your granddaughter and your recovery.

Best Wishes,

db

BobbyJ

With all of this...The AH & Daughter, The Bills, The Lawyer, The Emotions, The Broken Lawn Mower....

I am so tired. In all honesty, too tired to follow or think of any steps today...

Today my AH text my son, who is in med school. He has finals tomorrow. If he doesnt pass, he is out of school. Thats how serious it is. He cant even get a D on the test.
He's my high achiever child...(The oldest)

The AH text him and says, Get ahold of your mom, she is not answering the phone. If you cant get ahold of her, I will call 911...
Of course, my son texted me to see if I was okay..
AH sure knows, how to manlipulate all of us...
PISSED ME OFF, I couldnt even see straight!!!

I told him to leave my kids alone, he has done enough damage to them.
He said, "Im miss you and him, I worry about the two of you everyday"

I told him "Well, you didnt miss us too bad, when you purchased a bottle of vodka every morning" So why now??

Of course, he changed the subject...

I told him from now on, he can discuss this the lawyer. Im done!!!

He said "Why, Im sober" and gave me 100 threats if I sell one thing of his
I will pay double...

Last text, Oh well atleast now you can see your granddaughter...

I told him Friday his phone is being shut off.....Im done paying for abuse!