Is this even acceptable? So confused...
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Is this even acceptable? So confused...
I've stumbled across these forums a number of times in the past while searching Google for how to "fix" or "help" my AH... but in the last couple weeks I've come to my senses, given up on affecting his disease at all, started going to Al-Anon, and started trying to work on myself instead of him.
I've got a long and complicated story like all of us here certainly do, but I'm mostly just confused about recent events so I'll cut to the current situation.
Things came to a head a little over a week ago when my husband got drunk and humiliated me in front of my parents, who were visiting from out of town for our son's 3rd birthday. (By "humiliated me", what I mean is that he simply got drunk while they were here, and generally just stood there swaying around and slurring and being embarrassing - a nightly occurrence, but normally he drinks a little less while they are visiting due to trying to be "sensitive" to my father who is ACOA... HAH!) I do understand now that I don't need to feel humiliated by what AH does to himself, but at the time I was infuriated and took it as a huge insult, since he claimed to do it in response to a petty argument we had earlier that day.)
Anyway, after my folks left town, AH started going to an outpatient alcohol rehab program... but on Night 1 after attending the Group, he called me on his way home to notify me that he planned on drinking when he got back, and ask if I was OK with that!! Are you KIDDING me!? I told him I did not want to be pulled into that mess anymore and made into a bad guy, but when pressed I said that of course I would be upset, but would not say anything about it to him. Then I called the program director to ask whether this was even OK under the rules of the Program, and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. (I know now that his program, and whether he cheats at it, is his business and I need to let that go too!) She said he could be kicked out or referred to their Inpatient program if he is cheating like this. She also referred me to Al-Anon, for which I am very grateful.
AH did come home and get drunk, and I kept my cool. When he decided to go to bed, he asked if I wanted him to leave the bedside lamp on for me and I said, "No, that's OK, I won't be sleeping in that bed tonight" - I had decided to sleep in the guest room to avoid smelling him and putting myself into a situation where I may start verbally assaulting him over his choices yet again. I was trying to set a boundary for myself - a new thing for me but I think I did it pretty well.
AH was PISSED when I told him this, and he stormed downstairs where the guest room is. Basically trying to make me the bad guy again. I went to bed and let it go. The next morning he was missing but his car was still here. After much panic, early-morning phone calls to his mother and friends, and checking phone records, we finally found him and discovered that he had walked 4 miles - drunk - to the nearest main road where he called for a taxi, and went to our run-down just-purchased-in-order-to-gut-and-renovate rental house where he spent the night in a sleeping bag - 35 miles away!!! Not a cheap cab fare, UGH.
Since then, he has spent every night at that house. I do know that he has continued going to his Program (3 hours a night, 3 nights weekly). And he's made a couple brief "cameo appearances" at home to give our toddler a few minutes with Dad, and so I could go to Al-Anon. But then he goes back to the rental house. I have VERY strong suspicions that he has continued drinking.
So HERE is my actual problem/confusion/issue!! Sorry it took so long to get to this point, hehe:
Last night after his Group, AH called me - sober - and we had a very good conversation. He wanted to tell me about Group that night, and about the speakers who talked about AA, and how much he was thinking about things in different ways. He has not been doing AA, but it sounds like he may be getting interested. We talked for a long time and it got to be pretty late, so we had to end the call and go to bed.
We both felt very positive towards each other after our talk last night, which has been tough lately. He came home this morning for about an hour and a half so he could shower, brush his teeth, get some fresh clothes, etc. It's been a long time since we've spent much time together at all, and we were both missing each other and feeling OK, so we snuck into the bedroom to make love while our toddler watched TV for a few minutes.
That's when I smelled it.
You know the smell - that weird, sickening, next-morning booze in the system smell on his breath.
This is where I was terribly confused. He is sober this morning. Every interaction he and I have had recently has been positive and totally sober. We have not talked about drinking at all, we've only discussed his Program when he initiates and wants to share, and I have not had to witness him drinking or being intoxicated. So..... Is it OK that I went ahead and "did it" with him this morning despite KNOWING that he got drunk after our phone call last night?? Am I allowing my body to be used to reward him for drinking in secret and then showing up sober for his treat? I'm still working on setting healthy boundaries for myself and am not sure how this is supposed to work.
Part of me wants to say - I will NOT sleep in the same bed with him, let alone have sex with him, until he actually gets 100% sober and starts working his Program, instead of cherry-picking the info he likes and then cheating at the rest. Is this vengeful or controlling of me, or is it a healthy boundary to set?
The other part of me says - I'm getting the "good" parts of him, what do I care if he's cheating on his Program? It's not my issue! Am I just being codependent??
I'm so lost
I've got a long and complicated story like all of us here certainly do, but I'm mostly just confused about recent events so I'll cut to the current situation.
Things came to a head a little over a week ago when my husband got drunk and humiliated me in front of my parents, who were visiting from out of town for our son's 3rd birthday. (By "humiliated me", what I mean is that he simply got drunk while they were here, and generally just stood there swaying around and slurring and being embarrassing - a nightly occurrence, but normally he drinks a little less while they are visiting due to trying to be "sensitive" to my father who is ACOA... HAH!) I do understand now that I don't need to feel humiliated by what AH does to himself, but at the time I was infuriated and took it as a huge insult, since he claimed to do it in response to a petty argument we had earlier that day.)
Anyway, after my folks left town, AH started going to an outpatient alcohol rehab program... but on Night 1 after attending the Group, he called me on his way home to notify me that he planned on drinking when he got back, and ask if I was OK with that!! Are you KIDDING me!? I told him I did not want to be pulled into that mess anymore and made into a bad guy, but when pressed I said that of course I would be upset, but would not say anything about it to him. Then I called the program director to ask whether this was even OK under the rules of the Program, and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. (I know now that his program, and whether he cheats at it, is his business and I need to let that go too!) She said he could be kicked out or referred to their Inpatient program if he is cheating like this. She also referred me to Al-Anon, for which I am very grateful.
AH did come home and get drunk, and I kept my cool. When he decided to go to bed, he asked if I wanted him to leave the bedside lamp on for me and I said, "No, that's OK, I won't be sleeping in that bed tonight" - I had decided to sleep in the guest room to avoid smelling him and putting myself into a situation where I may start verbally assaulting him over his choices yet again. I was trying to set a boundary for myself - a new thing for me but I think I did it pretty well.
AH was PISSED when I told him this, and he stormed downstairs where the guest room is. Basically trying to make me the bad guy again. I went to bed and let it go. The next morning he was missing but his car was still here. After much panic, early-morning phone calls to his mother and friends, and checking phone records, we finally found him and discovered that he had walked 4 miles - drunk - to the nearest main road where he called for a taxi, and went to our run-down just-purchased-in-order-to-gut-and-renovate rental house where he spent the night in a sleeping bag - 35 miles away!!! Not a cheap cab fare, UGH.
Since then, he has spent every night at that house. I do know that he has continued going to his Program (3 hours a night, 3 nights weekly). And he's made a couple brief "cameo appearances" at home to give our toddler a few minutes with Dad, and so I could go to Al-Anon. But then he goes back to the rental house. I have VERY strong suspicions that he has continued drinking.
So HERE is my actual problem/confusion/issue!! Sorry it took so long to get to this point, hehe:
Last night after his Group, AH called me - sober - and we had a very good conversation. He wanted to tell me about Group that night, and about the speakers who talked about AA, and how much he was thinking about things in different ways. He has not been doing AA, but it sounds like he may be getting interested. We talked for a long time and it got to be pretty late, so we had to end the call and go to bed.
We both felt very positive towards each other after our talk last night, which has been tough lately. He came home this morning for about an hour and a half so he could shower, brush his teeth, get some fresh clothes, etc. It's been a long time since we've spent much time together at all, and we were both missing each other and feeling OK, so we snuck into the bedroom to make love while our toddler watched TV for a few minutes.
That's when I smelled it.
You know the smell - that weird, sickening, next-morning booze in the system smell on his breath.
This is where I was terribly confused. He is sober this morning. Every interaction he and I have had recently has been positive and totally sober. We have not talked about drinking at all, we've only discussed his Program when he initiates and wants to share, and I have not had to witness him drinking or being intoxicated. So..... Is it OK that I went ahead and "did it" with him this morning despite KNOWING that he got drunk after our phone call last night?? Am I allowing my body to be used to reward him for drinking in secret and then showing up sober for his treat? I'm still working on setting healthy boundaries for myself and am not sure how this is supposed to work.
Part of me wants to say - I will NOT sleep in the same bed with him, let alone have sex with him, until he actually gets 100% sober and starts working his Program, instead of cherry-picking the info he likes and then cheating at the rest. Is this vengeful or controlling of me, or is it a healthy boundary to set?
The other part of me says - I'm getting the "good" parts of him, what do I care if he's cheating on his Program? It's not my issue! Am I just being codependent??
I'm so lost
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
[QUOTE=Cosaloca;2951082]
He'll keep telling you the bold part for as long as he sees he can get under your skin by doing so. They all say that. It's always bc of someone or something else. But you know that's b.s. right? Since I stopped responding to my H telling me I am the reason he needs to drink, guess what? I haven't heard it. Remarkable how much my not reacting to him stops him in his tracks. And more importantly, it makes me so much more peaceful!
I don't even know what to say about this except that you aren't alone. I've had the exact thing occur. Right down to coming back from outpatient rehab and asking to drink at home. And I am ashamed to admit that I said yes bc to me that was preferable to him drinking elsewhere and maybe getting a DUI and me worrying all night about where he was.
It's his business but at the same time he can be kicked out for drinking during the program- how are they supposed to know that if you don't tell them? That's an aside I guess. I had the same chat this Fall with the Director of the outpatient program my H was in. Exact. I took her advice and started going to al anon more often and started getting a LOT more honest in my individual therapy and started telling the truth about our home life to my family and friends. I have a 3 yo and a 5 yo btw.
I'm sorry-- I know that panic... I don't know what his mother is like but I learned the hard way that hoping his mother would care that her son was killing himself slowly just created another person to blame me and lay into me as the cause of his alcoholism. If your mil is supportive and really concerned about her son, by all means call her and involve her when you are worried (it seems so abnormal to have to think this way-- like who wouldn't automatically involve family and friends when a loved one was ill or in danger). But if you even THINK she is going to enable him, just limit what you tell her now bc it will save you a LOT of grief down the road.
I am sure you're right.
I read this and before I got to the line below (I smelled it) I felt myself holding my breath. Here's what I am imagining you felt... "He's sharing with me, he's hopefully taking this seriously, I feel hopeful, maybe my not reacting has made a difference, we had such a great conversation- it means something, I miss him, I want to believe "this time" is going to be different..." Any truth to any of this?
I know... it is so confusing and heartbreaking.
He's your H and you want to have a connection with him... It's natural. I know that I started being willing to have sex with my AH a lot more than I actually wanted to in the past few yrs bc I thought that it would be a way- some way- to connect with him... All that happened is I got more depressed and felt lonelier and more disconnected.
It's not vengeful (though he will tell you it is) or controlling. It's about what YOU are comfortable with. It doesn't matter if he thinks it's healthy. If you think it is then it is.
I told myself this for a lot of the past year. I tried to take the good and leave the bad and it didn't work. I couldn't be happy for long before I worried, wondered what he was lying about etc... I am sure that it works for some-- I am unable to do it but that's me.
I don't have any answers for you but I can empathize and you are smart to be here and in al anon and be asking and thinking about the things you are...
Things came to a head a little over a week ago when my husband got drunk and humiliated me in front of my parents, who were visiting from out of town for our son's 3rd birthday. (By "humiliated me", what I mean is that he simply got drunk while they were here, and generally just stood there swaying around and slurring and being embarrassing - a nightly occurrence, but normally he drinks a little less while they are visiting due to trying to be "sensitive" to my father who is ACOA... HAH!) I do understand now that I don't need to feel humiliated by what AH does to himself, but at the time I was infuriated and took it as a huge insult, since he claimed to do it in response to a petty argument we had earlier that day.)
Anyway, after my folks left town, AH started going to an outpatient alcohol rehab program... but on Night 1 after attending the Group, he called me on his way home to notify me that he planned on drinking when he got back, and ask if I was OK with that!! Are you KIDDING me!?
Then I called the program director to ask whether this was even OK under the rules of the Program, and she said ABSOLUTELY NOT. (I know now that his program, and whether he cheats at it, is his business and I need to let that go too!)
AH did come home and get drunk, and I kept my cool. When he decided to go to bed, he asked if I wanted him to leave the bedside lamp on for me and I said, "No, that's OK, I won't be sleeping in that bed tonight" - I had decided to sleep in the guest room to avoid smelling him and putting myself into a situation where I may start verbally assaulting him over his choices yet again. I was trying to set a boundary for myself - a new thing for me but I think I did it pretty well.
AH was PISSED when I told him this, and he stormed downstairs where the guest room is. Basically trying to make me the bad guy again. I went to bed and let it go.
The next morning he was missing but his car was still here. After much panic, early-morning phone calls to his mother and friends, and checking phone records, we finally found him and discovered that he had walked 4 miles - drunk - to the nearest main road where he called for a taxi, and went to our run-down just-purchased-in-order-to-gut-and-renovate rental house where he spent the night in a sleeping bag - 35 miles away!!! Not a cheap cab fare, UGH.
Since then, he has spent every night at that house. I do know that he has continued going to his Program (3 hours a night, 3 nights weekly). And he's made a couple brief "cameo appearances" at home to give our toddler a few minutes with Dad, and so I could go to Al-Anon. But then he goes back to the rental house. I have VERY strong suspicions that he has continued drinking.
Last night after his Group, AH called me - sober - and we had a very good conversation. He wanted to tell me about Group that night, and about the speakers who talked about AA, and how much he was thinking about things in different ways. He has not been doing AA, but it sounds like he may be getting interested. We talked for a long time and it got to be pretty late, so we had to end the call and go to bed.
We both felt very positive towards each other after our talk last night, which has been tough lately. He came home this morning for about an hour and a half so he could shower, brush his teeth, get some fresh clothes, etc. It's been a long time since we've spent much time together at all, and we were both missing each other and feeling OK, so we snuck into the bedroom to make love while our toddler watched TV for a few minutes.
We both felt very positive towards each other after our talk last night, which has been tough lately. He came home this morning for about an hour and a half so he could shower, brush his teeth, get some fresh clothes, etc. It's been a long time since we've spent much time together at all, and we were both missing each other and feeling OK, so we snuck into the bedroom to make love while our toddler watched TV for a few minutes.
That's when I smelled it.
You know the smell - that weird, sickening, next-morning booze in the system smell on his breath.
This is where I was terribly confused.
You know the smell - that weird, sickening, next-morning booze in the system smell on his breath.
This is where I was terribly confused.
I know... it is so confusing and heartbreaking.
Am I allowing my body to be used to reward him for drinking in secret and then showing up sober for his treat? I'm still working on setting healthy boundaries for myself and am not sure how this is supposed to work.
Part of me wants to say - I will NOT sleep in the same bed with him, let alone have sex with him, until he actually gets 100% sober and starts working his Program, instead of cherry-picking the info he likes and then cheating at the rest. Is this vengeful or controlling of me, or is it a healthy boundary to set?
The other part of me says - I'm getting the "good" parts of him, what do I care if he's cheating on his Program? It's not my issue! Am I just being codependent??
I don't have any answers for you but I can empathize and you are smart to be here and in al anon and be asking and thinking about the things you are...
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Originally Posted by Cosaloca 
So..... Is it OK that I went ahead and "did it" with him this morning despite KNOWING that he got drunk after our phone call last night?? Am I allowing my body to be used to reward him for drinking in secret and then showing up sober for his treat? I'm still working on setting healthy boundaries for myself and am not sure how this is supposed to work.
The phrases "reward him" and "his treat" sort of make my skin crawl. Sex is a mutual act between two consenting adults. It's not something you "give" to him when he's a good boy. It's something you both "share" if both want to. At least that's how I look at it.
L
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by Cosaloca
The other part of me says - I'm getting the "good" parts of him, what do I care if he's cheating on his Program? It's not my issue! Am I just being codependent??
I read this a few times on SR and it was really like someone reaching out from my computer screen and slapping me in the face. Those of us who deal with somewhat functional alcoholics tend to forget that the "functional" mode is just one of the stages in the downward spiral of addiction. The "good parts" of your AH may be nice right now, but (and this is JMHO), by keeping up the routine of "Everything is fine" you are sending him the message that his tantrum and disappearing act are acceptable to you. To me, it speaks of a great deal of disrespect to subject anyone to that kind of treatment...Think about this, if you behaved that way towards your boss, your good friend or your parents, would they find it acceptable?
I don't mean to imply that you should get in his face and start some drama. Having a conversation with an alcoholic who is clearly nowhere near recovery only results in madness. You can however inform him of your boundaries, whatever they may be (i.e. you will not be looking for him when he pulls another disappearing act on you again), reinforce these boundaries with actions.
Take some time to reflect on what's best for YOU and your son in this situation.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 428
Some of the best sex I had with my AH was when I thought he "got it" (what his alcoholism/ behavior was doing to us). He would say things that were so rational and loving. It was just what I wanted to hear...but then reality would smack me in the face, AGAIN.. Nothing really changed. It made me feel like I was being played and manipulated for sex. I'm not sure how long this went on for. It was this dance we did and he was so good at sucking me into it. I would think he finally got it (AGAIN) this time. I stopped this dance a few months ago. Not to punish him (but I know he sees it that way) but because it wasn't good(meaning healthy) for me. For me to want sex I need to feel loved and respected by my AH. Hard to be that kind of husband when you are sneaking to drink, lying about it, and it is causing you to be toxic in your interactions with me. It is to the point where I simply don't feel loved or respected and now I don't trust that his actions as genuine. I have started going to alanon and I do work with a T. I am trying to understand his illness , trying to stop being angered by it, and simply focus on myself and address his behavior as I need to (which is really just setting a boundary for me). My boundary of I need to feel loved and respected to have sex is not because he is an A, it is because of who I am and what I need to feel healthy.
Someone on here said that men equate sex with "everything is okay". Right now everything is not okay so I would never want to confuse him by thinking it was.
I am very new to understanding what alanon teaches, how to set boundaries, how to heal myself etc. While I am starting to see the light I still have the fog around me and am struggling with what is the right things to do, to think or say. It is all pretty dang confusing at times. I know I am taking baby steps in the right direction but I have to hold myself back because what I really want to do is knock him up the side of the head and just get him to STOP it! However as Step 1 explains I have no power to make him stop.
Best of luck to you on this journey to get it figured out. I know I am right there with you confused, heartbroken and down right irritated too.
Someone on here said that men equate sex with "everything is okay". Right now everything is not okay so I would never want to confuse him by thinking it was.
I am very new to understanding what alanon teaches, how to set boundaries, how to heal myself etc. While I am starting to see the light I still have the fog around me and am struggling with what is the right things to do, to think or say. It is all pretty dang confusing at times. I know I am taking baby steps in the right direction but I have to hold myself back because what I really want to do is knock him up the side of the head and just get him to STOP it! However as Step 1 explains I have no power to make him stop.
Best of luck to you on this journey to get it figured out. I know I am right there with you confused, heartbroken and down right irritated too.
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Just so no one thinks I was in a vulnerable position or being used, I should clarify that I definitely wanted (and enjoyed) the sex. By the time I noticed the smell on his breath, things were already going, and I was comfortable with it until after the fact, when my brain started churning over all the facts of the matter.
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In that case, I don't see any problem (with the sex, that is 
). If you were doing it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you were withholding it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you didn't want to, but went ahead anyway out of guilt or fear or whatever, that would be a problem.
In this case, it just seems like two adults, who are married to each other, being physically intimate. That doesn't have to be connected to his drinking or not drinking at all, does it?
L
). If you were doing it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you were withholding it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you didn't want to, but went ahead anyway out of guilt or fear or whatever, that would be a problem. In this case, it just seems like two adults, who are married to each other, being physically intimate. That doesn't have to be connected to his drinking or not drinking at all, does it?
L
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Originally Posted by Cosaloca
Just so no one thinks I was in a vulnerable position or being used, I should clarify that I definitely wanted (and enjoyed) the sex. By the time I noticed the smell on his breath, things were already going, and I was comfortable with it until after the fact, when my brain started churning over all the facts of the matter.
I've been there... I'm okay in the moment and then after the fact I start thinking of all the facts of the matter/situation and I wind up feeling worse than I did before. Not sure that's what you're saying but if it is, I totally get it and feel for you.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
In that case, I don't see any problem (with the sex, that is ). If you were doing it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you were withholding it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you didn't want to, but went ahead anyway out of guilt or fear or whatever, that would be a problem.
In this case, it just seems like two adults, who are married to each other, being physically intimate. That doesn't have to be connected to his drinking or not drinking at all, does it?
L
). If you were doing it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you were withholding it in hopes of influencing his sobriety, that would be a problem. If you didn't want to, but went ahead anyway out of guilt or fear or whatever, that would be a problem. In this case, it just seems like two adults, who are married to each other, being physically intimate. That doesn't have to be connected to his drinking or not drinking at all, does it?
L
I may end up feeling differently later, and I know that if he keeps cheating at his Program, things will certainly go downhill as usual... But for now, while I am actually enjoying the few bits of time we have together here and there, I'm not going to link our sex life in with his illness, because it's really NOT about his illness. While alcoholism has been a prominent pain point between us, it's not the only thing between us. Not everything in our lives has to revolve around that. And OK, who can blame me, I love being intimate with the man I married (the sober one)!
All that being said, I still want to continue working on my list of specific personal boundaries which I WILL protect. I'm actually writing them down for myself to be sure I get things nice and concrete, so I know exactly what to do when a hairy situation arises. And one of them is that if he is intoxicated, I will not share a bed with him (sleeping or otherwise), because it's irritating to me and less than I think I should expect from that area of our relationship. Still working on the rest of the list but I'm feeling more clear-headed and stronger every day.
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Thanks so much for posting this. It's become an issue in my relationship too, and I twist myself into knots trying to figure out what to do. Based on what I've read, I guess the question is: "what do you want to do", and check my motives.
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