Blogs


Notices

Past and Present Similarities

Old 04-28-2011, 05:59 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Past and Present Similarities

I am sharing all of this below today (and no one needs to read it-- I am writing it for me) bc I read something this morning and realized that all week on this site, much like I did for years with my AH and my family, I have let someone else's words about me impact how I felt about me. Sick (me). I can have 100 people tell me something positive or tell me something in a respectful way but if one person says something nasty, that's what I cling to. It's insane. I've done it my whole life and I did not expect that I'd do that here bc I naively thought that behavior like my AH's and my family's was isolated to them. How crazy is that?!

I appreciate all that I've learned here-- and even those people whose words have been triggering bc of how much they have sounded like those of the abusers in my life, I appreciate (though I don't like how it was said) the opportunity your words/behaviors have given me to recognize what issues I still need a LOT of work on. Not letting others define me, not letting others opinions when they aren't based on the whole picture impact what I know is true and not letting my self esteem be wrapped up in what others say to me are all lessons I have struggled with my whole life and this week here I've realized these are still major issues for me.

When I first registered/came here I came here feeling like a mess... I came here being unwilling to utter the words "my AH is abusive" bc no one sees it but me and I feel and have felt tremendous shame about this. Shame that I am educated and "let" this happen. Shame that I worked with DV victims and somehow was dumb enough to let it happen to me. Shame that I had children with this man.

Over the past month or so I've gotten a lot of help and advice and info from people who are ahead of where I am and I applied a lot of it to my life and I made some big decisions (big for me that is) and changes. I started to feel SO much stronger and felt better about myself than I have in a long time. Getting to al anon mtgs is hard for me- I go once a week but other than that my support has been my therapist, my sponsor and lately, here. I've been really grateful to this site and have found such hope and strength here in both others' stories and in the advice I've received.

Over the past month as I started to feel stronger and better about myself and started to believe that I really had not caused the abuse or the alcoholism (neither of which I believed) I started to feel really really hopeful about my future with my girls and I (alone!) and started to imagine all the things that I had to look fwd to that I've stopped doing, ignored, etc... bc AH wanted me to drop friends, hobbies etc... and "be there for him" and I did. I started to feel good about who I was and that is not something I have felt EVER.

I didn't let losing my job a few weeks ago result in a complete meltdown like it would have a few months ago and instead of sitting and panicking I took immediate steps to come up with a solution. I told my family the truth about my marriage (and from my sister and mother got told "oh you're suchhhhhh a victim, get over yourself"). I told AH I was done and meant it. I told my best friend what has really been going on in my home and found each time I told the truth it took some of the shame away. And coming back to SR each day has helped keep me feeling strong enough to keep doing this. As recently as Easter I was told by my mother and one of my brothers (not the one who works with AH) that I should look at what I've done to cause AH to drink and treat the girls and I badly and that before I "throw away" our family I should think long and hard about the consequences of my choices. I haven't shared these remarks here. I've tried to not let them bother me and focus instead of the positive.

But today, after a few days of thinking about why it is that I am letting the words of a few people bother me so much I realize that I am really struggling. I have enough other people in my life telling me I am the problem, telling me I am full of myself, that I am full of it, that I am a "victim" (when I do not see myself that way) etc... I've tried hard to tell myself that AH telling me this or my mothers telling me this is bc of their "illnesses" of addiction, but truthfully, I've believed this about myself for my whole life bc its been beaten into my head and it's hard to push that away. I came here and felt I was starting to be able to push those messages away bc so many people shared the same experiences that it couldn't be "my fault".

But then this week, I find, in a place where we are supposed to all respect and support each other (and no that doesn't mean telling each other what we want to hear-- but it does mean being respectful) that I've been told pretty much the same things my AH spews at me when he is trying to keep me stuck and afraid. And I am confused and don't get it. I don't think sooooo highly of myself, I don't think I am a victim, I don't relish the victim role, I am not high and mighty or anything else I've been told I am. But because these things are so similar to what I have been told by AH and my mother for years, I AM having a hard time not defending myself and not letting others' words impact me. And I am finding that the hope and strength I felt building for the past few weeks has all but gone away. I feel crummy, I feel I need to defend myself, I feel I better not share my struggles or my accomplishments bc I will be judged by a few around here for either being a "victim" or "thinking too highly of myself". I am just a human who is trying to be honest about my ups and downs and I guess that's triggering for some. And unfortunately, the words being thrown at me- or the accusations rather, are triggering for me. There are a few phrases that I've lived with my whole life that have hurt a lot, that are intentionally chosen to be hurtful (by AH and my mother) and a few too many of those have been thrown my way this week and it's hard to take.

One of the things that I've lived with a lot from AH is that almost each time I have shown I feel good about myself, or I show that I am not sticking with the status quo, he knocks me back down to size-- tells me I have an inflated head, tells me I can't "see myself accurately". My self esteem has been in the toilet for years. In the past couple months it's started to get better, though when I get into circular conversations with him or try to explain, justify or defend why I feel as I do and am making the choices I am making for ME, he still has (or I still allow him to have) the ability to smash whatever self worth I had started to develop and I question myself all over and feel ashamed for thinking that I had any right to change.

I am still struggling with the above and the LAST place I need to be insulted is on a board where I am coming to try and get OUT of the patterns that have kept me stuck.

I think people ought to be aware on here that we DON'T know the whole story-- that all of us have a lot more to our stories than the rest of us know and we might want to try and use a bit more tact at times than we do (or some do) when talking to each other. I don't think anyone is actively trying to sound like my AH or knock me down, but some of what has been said has been really triggering bc it is almost verbatim the same stuff that AH and my family have told me my entire life to keep me in the role they want me to play bc it keeps them from having to deal with their issues.

I have gone from feeling strong and wanting to stand up for myself and change my life and feeling like I have a RIGHT to all of this to feeling like I shouldn't bother bc maybe AH, my family and a few select individuals around here really have been right all along about me and that I am the one trying to delude myself. This feeling is one I have been fighting for months. It's a mentality I've tried to stop believing and I am angry that on a site where we should be supporting each other, I am finding that I feel worse than I have in a long time bc I am fighting the same SICK accusations that my AH and family have spewed at me for years.

A few days ago I was feeling better about myself and more like I was on the right track (even if at the beginning of the track!) than I ever had. And I've let the words and accusations of strangers who really don't know me at all impact that. And the only person I can blame this on is me. That said, I now feel like I ought not share any accomplishments or things I am proud of bc I fear being told (as I already have been) that I think too highly of myself. I feel I shouldn't share when I am struggling bc it will be interpreted by a few as me just whining and not being willing to make changes. I felt like this was a safe place to come, a place to get support, advice and be treated with respect. I really really hate that I am feeling pretty much like I have felt with my AH for years. Feeling like I need to filter what I share so that I don't have what I say dissected and misinterpreted. I feel like I have done something wrong to "bring about" the remarks that have been sent via pm that are just totally out of line.

Throughout my marriage when AH has treated me horribly I always found myself asking what I did to cause it. Same with my childhood with my borderline mother and narcissistic father. These 3 people told and tell me how they view me and I believe(d) it and then would try in vain to prove myself innocent of their baseless accusations. Overtime it didn't matter whether they told me I had 3 heads-- I'd still try and defend myself. The madness was that I was never able to say "say what you want but I know my truth" and let it go. NEVER. But over the past few months I've started being able to do that with AH and it's been liberating. And it's been heartwrenching to find myself in this same pattern here this week. Defending myself, feeling that I HAD to explain more clearly so that people would see the "real" me. What I am realizing (thank you therapy!) is that I don't think AH or my parents ever saw me as they claimed they did. I think that they SAID a lot of things they knew were untrue bc it served a purpose for them and since I showed that I'd let it impact me I was an "easy target". I started to figure this out in therapy but clearly didn't figure it out well enough to apply it to the world outside of my AH and parents... I guess I should.

For years, my mother, father and then AH would take my words, spin what I said and make what I said fit their argument/perspective. It was maddening. I was constantly afraid to speak freely for fear of how whatever I said would get thrown back at me and I have to say that I feel much like that right now about posting here. I am worried about my word choice and what I share bc I fear how it might get taken, twisted and thrown at me in a way other than I intended. That's a crappy feeling and this is not a place that kind of behavior should be happening.

I am sick of being told that just bc I stand up for myself and tell people when they are distorting my words, that I am "only interested in hearing what I want to hear". It's not true and if it were then I would not have gotten anything out of being here and I have gotten a ton from a lot of the healthy and wise people on this board who I am grateful for. I don't understand what my problem is with needing to try and prove myself to others- first my mother and father as a kid, then my AH and now people here.

I am still really stuck in caring way too much when others spew things at me that are untrue and I spin my wheels and try to defend myself. I thought I'd gotten better at doing this with my AH and I think I have. But I did not expect that I would have to practice that same lesson here.... Maybe it's good that I get extra practice though... Is this a HP lesson?

Bottom Line: There is a LOT of history that we all have that we don't all know about. Before you decide to jump all over someone, judge someone, use less than tactful language, consider that no one of us knows the whole story of each other and you never know when you might be re-creating the very dynamic that people are here trying to get away from.

I think that a little bit of tact, compassion, humility, lack of judgement... goes a long way.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
aasharon90 (04-28-2011), Alone22 (04-28-2011), Babyblue (04-28-2011), Cyranoak (04-28-2011), Danae (04-28-2011), Justfor1 (04-28-2011), LS2 (04-29-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011), TakingCharge999 (04-28-2011), XXXXXXXXXX (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 07:31 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: kansas
Posts: 61
Blog Entries: 8
Greatest Gift

The greatest gift that one can give another is the truth.
The one receiving the truth gets to complain about the messenger and not hear the message.
There is some medicine that cannot be taken with a spoon full of sugar.
Francismcan is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Francismcan For This Useful Post:
Fandy (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 07:34 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
nodaybut2day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
nodaybut2day is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nodaybut2day For This Useful Post:
craven (04-29-2011), TakingCharge999 (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 07:47 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Hi iwtb,

Your post resonated with me on a lot of levels.

Mostly I want to say this: You're having a low period. A trough. You will have those as you struggle through this very difficult phase. It starts with being triggered, the crazy crap from childhood and a current, chaotic living situation feed it. People being more direct than you would like causes you to hurt and feel defensive and angry. the shame of being educated, a good mother, working with DV victims and still "letting it happen" to you hurts like crazy. (I am exactly like you in that regard.), you lose your job (really??? NOW?!?!?!)

In other words, the powers of the universe are conspiring to kick you when you're down.

I have learned (over 2 years of extricating myself) that it just happens like that sometimes, and the solution lies with you. You breathe, you take a break, you go running, you read a silly novel, you pray or meditate or have quiet time, you stop talking to people who hurt you. You just don't engage with your mother, your AH, those on this board who trigger you (use the ignore button). Stop arguing.

You stop fighting and engaging. You think about the fact that in an exhausted economy, you have been offered a job that gets you and your children AWAY from all this. You breathe deeply that you have been issued a subpoena and surrender to the power of the State.

In fact, surrender to the crap. Stop fighting. Figure out what you can do to make your life more PEACEFUL from today forward. (hint: arguing, fighting back, convincing, persuading aren't compatible with peace).

And you decide what you can do in the next hour to further your serenity. And then the hour after that.

And pretty soon, you will be surprised that you are out of the trough and on your way to a peak.

You have to expect the troughs. Just don't wallow in them. Know that the less energy you give to despair and anger, the sooner the bad phase will pass.

I promise that this is what works for me. I hope it will help you.
stella27 is offline  
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to stella27 For This Useful Post:
aasharon90 (04-28-2011), Alone22 (04-28-2011), bookwyrm (04-28-2011), concernednurse (04-29-2011), craven (04-29-2011), GettingBy (04-28-2011), lillamy (04-28-2011), LS2 (04-29-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011), Tuffgirl (04-28-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 07:53 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
aasharon90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 12,558
He who is without sin cast the first stone is a
thought that came to mind.
aasharon90 is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aasharon90 For This Useful Post:
Alone22 (04-28-2011), wicked (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 08:14 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Francismcan View Post
The greatest gift that one can give another is the truth.
The one receiving the truth gets to complain about the messenger and not hear the message.
There is some medicine that cannot be taken with a spoon full of sugar.

I don't want medicine with sugar. And I am not ignoring the message and complaining about the messenger. In fact I am saying that the messages I've received from a vast minority on here that are bothersome to me are helping me see that those who preach the loudest that they are in recovery tend to be those whose behaviors show it the least.

Those who would call abusive behavior the truth (which both parents and AH all have- draw whatever parallels you want between that and the references I made to private messages I received that were out of line) do so because it justifies continuing that behavior.

Plenty of people have offered direct, truthful advice and perspective on here and I have appreciated it. When people start sentences with "I know you think..." that's not my truth. That's theirs. That's what I have a problem with. Those who write messages to others analyzing and bashing me and drawing conclusions NOT based on facts or anything I've ever said are not telling my truth. They are telling a distorted version of a truth that serves a purpose for them.

I lived with this all my life. It's easy to see it and I really shouldn't be surprised that I am getting the same response here from a select few that I received from my AH and parents for years.

What I am interested in understanding is how it is that my AH's behavior is called quacking when he says things like some of the things said to me around here lately but when the same, verbatim things are said by those claiming to be in "recovery" it's "truth". WOW!
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
aasharon90 (04-28-2011), Justfor1 (04-28-2011), TakingCharge999 (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 08:15 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
aasharon90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 12,558
I sometimes write what pops in my head without
explaination. An apology is in order here for my
post.

I was reflecting back on all those who made me
feel less than like as if they were all so perfect in
their lives. Speaking of my own family members
all the way down to my mom.

Your story sounded so similar to my own and I
know how you feel cause Ive been there too.

So immediately I thought of that line of words
to post.

Hope that makes sense.
aasharon90 is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to aasharon90 For This Useful Post:
StarCat (04-28-2011), stella27 (04-28-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011), wicked (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 08:27 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
:horse
Fandy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fandy For This Useful Post:
Leise (04-29-2011), smacked (04-29-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 08:30 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Hi Stella,

Thank you for your post. It really makes me think and I've sent it to my email so I can re-read it many times over.

Mostly I want to say this: You're having a low period. A trough. You will have those as you struggle through this very difficult phase. ] It starts with being triggered, the crazy crap from childhood and a current, chaotic living situation feed it.
I guess it's naive to think that triggers will never arise-- and especially on a site where none of us are professionals in addiction and we all come with our own issues, it was especially naive to think that things would be exactly as I'd hope (you know, we'd all talk nicely, sing kumbaya and all like each other). Yes, I really am that naive and insane in my thinking at times!

People being more direct than you would like causes you to hurt and feel defensive and angry.
I really, really don't mind directness. I think your post is direct and I appreciate it. I DO mind being told "I know you think...." and being told privately (lest he let his cover be blown as a non judgemental member?) that I clearly think waaaay too much of myself. Trust me, if that were the case I'd LOVE it. It hurts to hear the same crap I was fed as a kid and in my marriage during a time when I am actively trying to STOP believing all those negative messages thrown at me to keep me in my place. The directness isn't the problem. The low blows are.

The shame of being educated, a good mother, working with DV victims and still "letting it happen" to you hurts like crazy. (I am exactly like you in that regard.), you lose your job (really??? NOW?!?!?!)
Right, and being told on here all the things I already am beating myself up over doesn't help. I don't think I've tried to present myself as someone who has it all together- hardly! But I get talked to by a few people as though that IS how I try to present myself. I've been pretty honest about my mistakes, my struggles, what I feel proud of and what I know I need to keep working on-- and I guess being kicked when I am down isn't really what I need.

In other words, the powers of the universe are conspiring to kick you when you're down.
I am really trying to see it as the powers of the universe giving me opportunity to keep learning new things about myself but right about now I'd like the learning curve to slow down a bit!

I have learned (over 2 years of extricating myself) that it just happens like that sometimes, and the solution lies with you. You breathe, you take a break, you go running, you read a silly novel, you pray or meditate or have quiet time, you stop talking to people who hurt you. You just don't engage with your mother, your AH, those on this board who trigger you (use the ignore button). Stop arguing.
You stop fighting and engaging. You think about the fact that in an exhausted economy, you have been offered a job that gets you and your children AWAY from all this. You breathe deeply that you have been issued a subpoena and surrender to the power of the State.
Yup. Am trying to remember and do this... Did I mention (pretty sure I didn't) that AH's parents and sister live 5 min from the new job? So, my excitement over it is tempered by realizing that I may be jumping from the frying pan into the fire and am trying to weigh out all the pros/cons etc...

In fact, surrender to the crap. Stop fighting. Figure out what you can do to make your life more PEACEFUL from today forward.
(hint: arguing, fighting back, convincing, persuading aren't compatible with peace).
You are right! I had figured this out relative to AH but clearly not anywhere else in my life.

As a kid (and I get that this is my issue to keep dealing with in T and I am!) I had to keep quiet, take whatever insults were thrown my way, on the occassions I stood up and defended myself to my mother the abuse that came my way was not pretty. So when AH started in, years ago with the same verbal abuse I thought to myself "I'll be damned if I stay quiet this time" but all that got me was the same distress that keeping quiet caused me. But did I learn to stop? Nope. Not for a LONGGGGG time. People here helped a lot with that. And then I found myself doing the same thing with a few people here. Why can't I just ignore them? Why does the opinion of someone who doesn't know me at all matter so much? That's a BIG focus in T for me right now and maybe realizing that this issue isn't isolated to AH alone is a good lesson for me to be learning...

You have to expect the troughs. Just don't wallow in them. Know that the less energy you give to despair and anger, the sooner the bad phase will pass.
Thank you...

I promise that this is what works for me. I hope it will help you.
Thank you - it does... I emailed this to myself and will read it as often as need be... I really appreciate your ability to be direct and honest and still respectful.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 04-28-2011, 08:33 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by aasharon90 View Post
I sometimes write what pops in my head without
explaination. An apology is in order here for my
post.

I was reflecting back on all those who made me
feel less than like as if they were all so perfect in
their lives. Speaking of my own family members
all the way down to my mom.

Your story sounded so similar to my own and I
know how you feel cause Ive been there too.

So immediately I thought of that line of words
to post.

Hope that makes sense.
I don't think an apology is necessary at all. I think that there are a LOT of people in this world (quite a few in my FOO and the family I chose to marry in to) who have spent a lot of their life focussed on cutting me down and telling me all the ways I should change and that if I did then all would be well.

I think the quote you used is fine. I wasn't sure whether you felt I was casting stones-- I really didn't try to-- and was confused by that but was interested in knowing whether you felt I was.

Perhaps talking about my FOO treatment and AH's treatment of me is casting stones and that IS something I should think about. I have a LOT of forgiving I need to do and it's something I am aware I need to do for ME, not for them, but am not there yet.

Your post made me think and I appreciated it.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wanttobehealthy For This Useful Post:
aasharon90 (04-28-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 09:32 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
lillamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,523
The important thing is that you're taking big strides ahead.
I can very much relate to your "how could I be stupid enough to find myself married to an abusive alcoholic?" self-beating -- I've done it, too. It's been humbling to see how much I've learned in the process, and how judgmental I used to be about women in abusive situations who didn't leave.

You were disappointed by the man you married. I bet it wasn't the first time you were disappointed in another human being. Or the last time.

The thing that helps me when I get to where people don't live up to my expectations is going back to Step 1. And not only admit that I am powerless over alcohol, but also over other people.

It is easy for me when I get into a situation (Al-Anon, SR, new counselor, good group of friends, new man) to put too much stock in them. I want them to be for me exactly what I want them to be at every turn. Because when I'm in this place of emotional pain, I just want the pain to go away. And anyone who doesn't behave like I want them to behave contributes to the pain instead of making it go away.

My love pointed out to me that recovery is sort of like recovery from surgery: You're gonna hurt, and the first time that dang aide comes and kicks you out of bed and says "walk!" you're going to hate her, because it HURTS. But it's what you've got to do to get better.

People have come out of the woodwork to support me on my journey. Sometimes they've hurt me and it's been necessary, sometimes they've hurt me and it hasn't. Either way, it's my journey and while I am always grateful from the bottom of my heart for all the support I receive, at the end of the day, I can't expect anything from anyone. I have to do the grueling work on my own. I have the choice who I hang out with (and from time to time, I do shut people out when they don't contribute in a way that's constructive) and I have the choice what I take away from what people say to me.

I don't know if any of the above applies to you, but that's sort of how I think about it. Keep on keeping on, friend.
lillamy is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lillamy For This Useful Post:
bookwyrm (04-28-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 09:48 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
[QUOTE=lillamy;2951003]

The important thing is that you're taking big strides ahead.
I can very much relate to your "how could I be stupid enough to find myself married to an abusive alcoholic?" self-beating -- I've done it, too. It's been humbling to see how much I've learned in the process, and how judgmental I used to be about women in abusive situations who didn't leave.
As a young recent college grad a million years ago (okay maybe not a million) I definitely thought it was a lot simpler to leave than it is and while I don't think I judged the women I worked with I may well have in their eyes. And yes, like you I have learned the hard way how much more complicated it is now that I've found myself in it myself.

You were disappointed by the man you married. I bet it wasn't the first time you were disappointed in another human being. Or the last time.
Very good point... I get into trouble (I realized this reading your post-- thank you soooo much for it!) bc I try my best (to the detriment of myself and my kids in the past) to never disappoint anyone (especially those who treat me like crap) and bc I expect myself to sacrifice and be perfect (which I know I am not) I get disappointed when others don't do the same. That's pretty sick isn't it?!

The thing that helps me when I get to where people don't live up to my expectations is going back to Step 1. And not only admit that I am powerless over alcohol, but also over other people.
Wow. That is huge!!!!! I didn't realize that I ought to be applying step 1 not just to not being powerless over alcohol and what AH does, but over all of life... This is huge for me. Thank you for sharing this...

It is easy for me when I get into a situation (Al-Anon, SR, new counselor, good group of friends, new man) to put too much stock in them. I want them to be for me exactly what I want them to be at every turn. Because when I'm in this place of emotional pain, I just want the pain to go away. And anyone who doesn't behave like I want them to behave contributes to the pain instead of making it go away.
I think you just described precisely what I feel and didn't really realize I felt. This is it, to a t. You ought to go write books-- you just opened my eyes in a huge way. Thank you.

People have come out of the woodwork to support me on my journey. Sometimes they've hurt me and it's been necessary, sometimes they've hurt me and it hasn't. Either way, it's my journey and while I am always grateful from the bottom of my heart for all the support I receive, at the end of the day, I can't expect anything from anyone. I have to do the grueling work on my own. I have the choice who I hang out with (and from time to time, I do shut people out when they don't contribute in a way that's constructive) and I have the choice what I take away from what people say to me.
That makes PERFECT sense (above) and is what I have tried to do in this early recovery process of mine and obviously have hit some bumps lately. I am going to email this whole post to myself to remind myself of your wisdom.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honest, direct and respectful post. I appreciate being asked tough questions and appreciate you sharing what you offered bc I did not realize just how very much what you described/shared is precisely what I've been feeling/expecting etc...

You're brilliant!
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:05 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
catlovermi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
The thing about the whole messy, painful world of addiction and all its collateral damage is that:

Out of a mess, out of the pain, out of the dysfunction, out of the other negative things...


...can come incredible leaps of personal insight, growth, strength, wisdom, and - yes - eventually joy.

Sending encouragement,

CLMI
catlovermi is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to catlovermi For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (04-28-2011), bookwyrm (04-28-2011), craven (04-29-2011), lillamy (04-28-2011), LS2 (04-29-2011), pupnut5 (04-28-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011), TakingCharge999 (04-28-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011), wicked (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 11:01 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
A jug fills drop by drop
 
TakingCharge999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,783
Hi WTBH,

I agree with catlover, its not about others its all about you, and I see great insights and growth in your posts, that is the only thing that matters!!
TakingCharge999 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TakingCharge999 For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (04-28-2011), craven (04-29-2011), LS2 (04-29-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011), wicked (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 04:43 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
kittykitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
Blog Entries: 1
We have a saying in Alanon, every time you point a finger at someone, you have three pointing back at yourself.

Another saying is that "the only way to keep the program is to give it away". Step 12. That's what many of us try to do here.

You don't know most of our stories, and where we are in recovery. You keep repeating how others have judged you. And yet you do the same, but you justify it as defending yourself. Interesting.

I remember my first post to you, go look it up if you want. I told you how I saw the argument you had with your husband, and the behaviors I recognized in it from my own similar situations, the behaviors that through experience I have learned were toxic, behaviors that made my problems worse. I was trying to help you. You're response was to pick my post apart and attack me. You even went as far as to judge the recovery of the man who told me 'some are sicker than others'. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

This is my one and only response to these posts about other members being judgmental, accusatory, unhelpful, or "abusive". One of the first things I learned in Alanon was that I cannot control what others do, say, feel, or think. All I can control is how I react to what they do, say, feel, or think. Period. People in this world are going to be rude, **** me off, hurt my feelings (if I let them) but i'm a big girl, so I deal with it.

If some posters feel the need to be brutally honest with others, that is their choice. Some of us appreciate the honesty. I've seen on other threads now, where many posters are apprehensive in their responses, even going as far as being apologetic. It's like everyone is walking on eggshells around here now, because "someone got offended". And the "you hurt my feelings" threads continue... we get it.

I for one, will not apologize for sharing my experience, strength, and hope with others, especially when they ask for it. It's not okay to get angry at the messenger just because you don't like the message. If the messenger is a jerk, then ignore them. If I don't like what is shared, then I ignore it. I think everyone should have the chance to take what they like and leave what they don't. That's what this forum is all about. We are encouraged to share our experiences with others, some of us choose not to sugar coat it. But we aren't force feeding it to anyone. Your eyes aren't being held open with toothpicks, chained to your computer, forced to read our responses. Its your choice. Take responsibility for your choices.

If being on this forum is ruining your recovery, your progress that you have been making with therapy and alanon, as you stated in your opening post, then it would be understandable if you didn't want to participate. You need to do what's best for you. It does seem like you are blaming others on here for your unhappiness right now. I don't think that is fair, but it's not my job to make you see my side of things. But I will not apologize for being who I am, imperfections and all. I learned all this in Alanon.

I hope you have received the satisfaction you were looking for when posting this. I know from experience that when I was convinced of something, I would be relentless until someone agreed with me, someone please just say, "yes Kitty, you're right." Validation of my feelings from others used to mean everything to me. Now, not so much. I think you have gotten your validation now, so maybe it's time to move on to something new.

Good luck to you, I hope your situation improves soon.
kittykitty is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to kittykitty For This Useful Post:
craven (04-29-2011), Fandy (04-28-2011), GettingBy (04-28-2011), LaTeeDa (04-28-2011), Leise (04-29-2011), LS2 (04-29-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 05:12 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I am sorry you are so upset with me. I am pretty sure I didn't ever judge or attack you and if you felt I did I wish you would have said something. I think I've given the benefit of the doubt and when I've been confused about something someone has said, I've asked them to clarify. Did you do that or did you just choose to be resentful about whatever it is I said that you've held on to for quite a while now and let stew in you?

[QUOTE=kittykitty;2951518]

You don't know most of our stories, and where we are in recovery.
You're absolutely right. That's what I said in this post. We don't know one another's stories which is why we ought to be a lot more cautious about judging. You're repeating what I already said/agreed/pointed out.

You keep repeating how others have judged you. And yet you do the same, but you justify it as defending yourself. Interesting.
You're entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. I am not judging and did not set out telling people what they did and did not do accurately. When people seek me out to tell me how much I bother them that's a little different than responding to accusations, no?

I was trying to help you. You're response was to pick my post apart and attack me. You even went as far as to judge the recovery of the man who told me 'some are sicker than others'. You can dish it out but you can't take it.
You sound really angry. And for what it's worth when I try to help someone I don't go around telling that person later that "I tried to help and you just ....". Isn't one of the al anon/aa lessons that we ought to look at our intentions. If you intent was to help then you probably shouldn't have looked for or expected a certain response and considering how angry you sound it seems to me you set yourself up by "helping" to get a good case of the resentments. I won't apologize for not taking your "help" as you wanted me to. If you offer help don't do it with the expectation that you will get the response you want. I learned that the hard way doing just that with my AH for years.

One of the first things I learned in Alanon was that I cannot control what others do, say, feel, or think. All I can control is how I react to what they do, say, feel, or think. Period. People in this world are going to be rude, **** me off, hurt my feelings (if I let them) but i'm a big girl, so I deal with it.
Really? Is this post to me, bubbling over with anger you dealing with it? I think some of the advice I was given about letting go related to my AH (who I have let of btw ) might be good for you to read over since I have no idea when you posted your help to me but I can sense in how you're writing that you have held a grudge for a while.

If some posters feel the need to be brutally honest with others, that is their choice. Some of us appreciate the honesty. I've seen on other threads now, where many posters are apprehensive in their responses, even going as far as being apologetic. It's like everyone is walking on eggshells around here now, because "someone got offended". And the "you hurt my feelings" threads continue... we get it.
Again, you have your opinion and I have mine and everyone else has theirs. We don't all have to see eye to eye. What you see as walking on egghshells may be people exercising manners. Not the worst thing. And boy, if I have THAT much power (I assume the "someone got offended" is referring to me?) to change the tone of a whole board then I can't wait to try out that power on my AH and change him overnight (said with tongue planted firmly in cheek). You give me too much credit. Based on some feedback I've gotten privately, it might be instead of eggshell walking that I said some things that should have been said a while ago (before I even appeared possibly) and maybe everyone (myself included) can learn something about the line between honesty and tough love and being out of line. Or you can just keep slamming me and being pissed off if that works for you.

I for one, will not apologize for sharing my experience, strength, and hope with others, especially when they ask for it. It's not okay to get angry at the messenger just because you don't like the message.
If the messenger is a jerk, then ignore them.


Is that what you're doing here? Ignoring what bothers you? Maybe take your own advice? If you don't like what I said (and my post was MY sharing of MY experience and I won't apologize one bit for that) then don't read it. Pretty simple I think.

I think everyone should have the chance to take what they like and leave what they don't. That's what this forum is all about.
I thought the forum was about talking about ourselves and our experiences, not telling each other what to do? I must be mistaken. Or you are.

It does seem like you are blaming others on here for your unhappiness right now. I don't think that is fair,
but it's not my job to make you see my side of things.


But that won't stop you from trying will it?!

I hope you have received the satisfaction you were looking for when posting this.
??? I am fairly sure I said something about no one needs to read this-- I am just writing this for me.. venting, getting it out, thinking as I write... So maybe you're projecting?

I know from experience that when I was convinced of something, I would be relentless until someone agreed with me, someone please just say, "yes Kitty, you're right." Validation of my feelings from others used to mean everything to me.
Thank you for sharing that. I guess bc you did that that means that's what I am doing? Am I following your logic accurately? That's too bad that you did that. Sounds like a lot of energy wasted. I've wasted lots of energy myself doing lots of things I wish I hadn't but the above isn't one of them. Again, thanks for sharing your experience though.

I think it would be more appropriate KK if you have something to say that you just talk to me individually... unless of course you are looking for back up by posting it publicly?

Hope your own recovery is going well now that you have got me figured out.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 04-28-2011, 05:23 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
KittyKitty- I did just look up what you've posted to me (much of it saying well done etc.. for whatever that's worth) and found what you were referring to. I can send it to you and explain line by line what I was saying but let's leave it at this. I appreciated your post. I responded to you individually bc you put a lot of time into replying to me and I wanted to give you the respect of a response. I was not then nor am I now one bit upset about anything you said at all in that post. I wish you'd have asked me if I was before you assumed I was and stewed for the past few weeks. I WAS really pissed off at AH and his family and the whole situation-- I was angry at him, at me, at addiction. I wasn't upset with you. I apologize that you took it that way and again, the lesson here I guess is that if you assume something without asking for clarification then you really have only yourself to blame for your unhappiness. I'm sorry you chose to go the route of getting angry without checking with me to be sure your interpretation of my words was right. That's a lot of wasted energy. Words on a page can be interpreted a LOT more complexly and confusedly (probably not a word?!) than face to face talking. I apologize if I was unclear and if my anger at the world that night came off as directed toward you. On my children's lives, I swear it wasn't.

Have a good night.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 04-28-2011, 05:28 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
Carol Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,334
Blog Entries: 2
I can keep my serenity alot better if I stay out of the victim/judge circle. My therapist said to draw a circle- put victim on one side and judge on the other and step out of the circle. I am now aware of it when I get back in the circle. I am bad too at judging myself which my last 4th step revealed to me. A 4th step is a great way to get to know yourself. My sponser also says to have compassion for people not in recovery and my family of origin is not in recovery. I have to remember that. Thanks everyone for being here for me. We are not alone. We are all ONE.
Carol Star is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Carol Star For This Useful Post:
Babyblue (04-28-2011), Leise (04-29-2011), StarCat (04-28-2011), wanttobehealthy (04-28-2011)
Old 04-28-2011, 05:35 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
wanttobehealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Carol- some days are better than others for me in terms of having compassion for my FOO. I like the visual of judging and victim and being out of both... I think that when I "feel" judged (whether or not it's accurate perception on my part) the reason it hurts the most is probably bc anything being said is already what I tell myself, only 10 times worse (what I tell myself that is). What Stella and Lillamy said earlier and what you said here are really wise words and I appreciate them... Lots of good stuff to think about and I have been today and will continue to do so.
wanttobehealthy is offline  
Old 04-28-2011, 05:36 PM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
 
wicked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Blog Entries: 1
I think that a little bit of tact, compassion, humility, lack of judgement... goes a long way.
Yep, they all go a long way.
For everyone.

Last edited by wicked; 04-28-2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: no need for the rest
wicked is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wicked For This Useful Post:
Leise (04-29-2011), smacked (04-29-2011), stella27 (04-29-2011)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:39 PM.