Babyblue

I think more that people (including myself) get very triggered or feel frustrated that they see where this MAY be headed if you don't address it. But you are. It just takes time.

The abuse portion is harder actually to overcome because it comes from some hardwired stuff he has or just anger issues he won't address. All you can do is what is best for yourself and your kids. He is a long way from seeing what this is doing to your family, if ever. It is sad for him, sad for your kids but it doesn't mean it can't get better.. it will... you seem like a pretty strong cookie.

I wanted to add that I say this because many, if not most women in your situation would NOT press charges for what he did. It was a clear sign that you do know it can't continue like it has been.

GettingBy

More will be revealed WTBH... on your HPs schedule. I get and agree with what Babyblue is saying... there are people here who have BTDT, got the T-shirt. They have far more ESH, and maybe the delivery isn't great, the message is sound and the care/concern is very real.

It's a hard spot to be in, where you and I are. There is NO easy/quick answer. I struggle with what to do about my AH. I keep bumping up against the fact that if the drinking is an issue - why aren't I fighting for sole custody like a-hole attorney wants me to do? And why am I not keeping the kids away from him b/c of his anger?

I guess for me the answer is that I still think he is a good father to them. He doesn't drink around them, never has... but will he some day? Maybe, and if/when that happens I'll deal with it.

The bigger issue for me RIGHT now, is that I see him acting out his frustration on the kids. It doesn't happen all the time but it's WRONG, and yet, I'm paralyzed as to what to do. I protect them in the best way I know how right now (take them and separate them from him)... but what happens when I'm not around? Who protects them then?


I guess I have to agree with Suki's response... I should have been mad as hell the other night when AH screwed with my daughter and her blanket. But I wasn't. I did protect her and get her out of the situation... but I didn't say a word to AH afterwards. I'm numb. I'm in shellshock... and I've gotten to the point of not wanting to talk to him anymore b/c my words get twisted and manipulated.

But to not stand up for the kids?!?! WTF IS WRONG WITH ME?!?!

LaTeeDa

I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life. The things you post about are the same things I went through five years ago. My experience is very similar to yours. I was also very good at rationalizing, justifying, minimizing, and denial.

Obviously, you don't want to hear about my experience. If what you are doing is working for you, then by all means, carry on. The Buddhists have a saying about life:

Pain is mandatory, suffering is optional.

All the best,
L

Babyblue

It took me years of therapy to see that my mom (who stayed in an abusive situation) was actually very very strong. She made sure we had what we needed and that my dad would provide it. She is a very smart woman too and worked on his strengths (he was a hard worker) to get what she had to for her kids.

It was a different time though, she was a stay at home mom. I know my dad loved us but he had huge huge issues he never dealt with and he brought them to his family/wife.

And honestly, I think the reason my mom stayed was that she was truly in love with him. It makes no sense to me knowing what I know now but I can't say she made a mistake, she did what she could with what she knew.

wanttobehealthy

Actually I'd love to hear your experience. Really. What I am not loving is being told "I know better than you" in a really pompous way without actually being told anything specific.

Share your story if you wish. Maybe trying to force me to "get it" the way you want me to isn't the way it will work. I also think you might not want to believe this but I have taken a lot of steps to protect myself and my kids that a few months ago I wouldn't have and so being told that I am not putting my kids first is pretty harsh. I am doing this as fast and as well as I can given the way life is right now. I am interested in hearing what your story is and it may be that it is very similar to mine and it may be that it's not. I think that it's better (at least this is what I take from al anon) that we share our stories and let each other draw parallels as we can and give gentle advice -- being hit over the head and attacked- which is how it felt to me, is not a real great way to get someone interested.

And for what it's worth, I realized as I was feeling really frustrated earlier, that my AH must have felt much the same for years as I tried to tell him what to do and how he wasn't "seeing" it... So, maybe my HP wanted me to have that experience and know a bit better what that was like for him. Yet another reason to not tell him or anyone for that matter what to do or how to do it.

I'm sorry you think I am not interested in your story. I am.

LaTeeDa

I never said you weren't putting your kids first. And I'm sorry you felt attacked. Most of my story is on this board if you wish to read it.

The part of your story I am relating to right now is this. I had no idea what codependency was. I had no idea that what I was doing was enabling. Then, I found this board, got a therapist, read a few books and OMG, the light came on! I suddenly saw that there was another way to live. That what I had been doing all along was making it WORSE! So, now I knew better.

The problem was, I figured ME changing could fix things. As soon as he saw the different way of living I was setting by example, he would change, too. Now, if you had called me on that when I was doing it, I probably would have blown up. Not me! I'm getting better! I'm in recovery now! That's the thing about denial. If we knew we were in it, we wouldn't be in it, lol.

Anyway, I kicked my husband out of the house in a fit of anger that had been several years in the making. Only after that, did I find therapy, SR, etc. He quit drinking several months later and we tried reconciling about a year after we separated. Unfortunately, his behaviors (selfishness, immaturity, emotional abuse) were still there. And, even though I tried my hardest to be my recovered self, I could not do it.

I wanted so badly to have my dream. The happy family, growing old together, sitting in our rocking chairs on the porch........

I don't know better than you, I've just been where you are. It sucks, it's painful, and it's the hardest thing I've ever done. It just pains me to see someone else go through the same stuff. But, it takes what it takes, doesn't it?

L

wanttobehealthy

Believe me or don't but I am in therapy and taking him at face value, hearing him say I am making huge strides, I'm feeling that I am at least moving fwd.

I have NOT wanted to give up on the dream of what I thought I was going to have but as I posted in some thread last week, I have realized that what I WANT and what I NEED TO DO are 2 different things and though I am not fully there action wise, my HEAD and HEART are in a "accepting" place that I've never been before. It might not be much to some, but to me it's huge.

I am NOT hoping he will change and I don't know that I want him to anymore. There's been too much damage, too much hurt and too many betrayals. I am not blaming him for the marriage being where it is-- I am not blaming me... I am accepting that addiction has made us both ill and even if and when we both get better, I don't think there's anything left.

I have started to feel oddly excited about what might come next-- I'm sorting out whether to move to MA for a new job or stay and look into starting a small business (scary but I might do it) that I've always wanted to. I am calmer and a better mother than I have been in a long time. I am not apologizing for taking time for me each day. I am asking people for help whereas before I felt I had to do it all. I see AH moping or trying to get sympathy from me and I can think "hmmm, that's too bad he's down" and even say "sorry you're stressed" but I don't feel any desire to fix it and I don't feel that old feeling that was ever present (since childhood) of "let me make it better bc to be a good person I must". In fact just writing that right now makes me roll my eyes bc I don;t know how I spent 39 years thinking that was sane.

I have opened my eyes to the fact that drinking is the least of my H's problems and that I can't blame all his issues on the alcohol or his hard childhood and that I can't "save him".

Should I have told him he was out of line tonight? Yes. Would it have been worth it to do so? No. Just bc I don't confront and have a fight with him doesn't mean I condone it. In fact, the less I respond to him the louder the message that I am not putting up with his crap. The old me responded to everything-- which was just what he wanted-- then he'd twist it, make it my fault and I'd go nuts trying to explain why it wasn't and his behavior was never addressed. I think that the less I say the more he has nothing to spin around in his head but his own behavior... or maybe not... I don't really care to be honest. All I care about is that I am not going to engage in a fight or circular conversation and opening my mouth to him about anything other than the weather is likely to result in that. As opposed to the past when I'd be afraid to say something bc of his reaction, I am CHOOSING to say nothing to protect my peace and sanity and to have it calmer for the girls. I think that when he says something out of line and I say 'that's unacceptable' and walk away, that sends a clear message and I am okay with leaving it at that for today.

I am trying right now to focus on hour by hour and to not make backward progress. Changing everything is slow going and I am going to do it and am taking steps to do it. Most important to me is that my head is in the right place to do it. Lots of times before, in anger I;ve said "I'm done" and threatened to leave or did leave but I always returned. My head was always in "I want him to see how he's losing everything and change" and I wanted to be with him still. Now that's different. My head is in a 'I'm done' place and I feel calm bc that is decided. I don't want this to be what makes him change. I am doing this for ME bc I want ME to change and I want a happy life and I want my girls to be healthy.

I don't really know that I am explaining any of this clearly-- I need to think of some analogy for how I feel-- maybe that would make it clearer... I just know that I feel different, I feel sad that the "dream" is not going to be but I am also facing the fact that this marriage has really never been the "dream" I wanted and I've tried to be happy with mediocrity (at best) for far too long. Being honest with myself has been really freeing. I said the following to a friend on Sat night... I told him "I don't regret any of what AH and I have had bc when we met we were both what each other needed/wanted at the time... and in some ways, if AH hadn't been who he was and we hadn't gotten to this point I probably never would have started looking at myself as I have in the past year and I'd be stuck being the old me who frankly I didn't really like". So, for as sucky as life has been with him, I've learned a lot about what I do and don't want, about the kind of mother I want to and will be and am, about it being okay to say no when I mean it and to be "selfish" and put myself first sometimes....

It might sound insane, but I feel like AH getting to the point he did that got him arrested this winter was what it took for me to see things as they were.... if things had stayed bad but tolerable (if that makes sense) I might never have taken steps to change my life. And since Jan 31 I have taken a lot of steps and I am not going back and while I wish I hadn;t been assaulted by him, if that's what it took to wake me up and get me out of status quo mind set land, I guess I am "glad"? it happenened...

Okay enough rambling for one night..

Babyblue

Progress unfolding right before our very eyes!

Did you notice how this post was all about YOU? THAT is huge. It isn't about him at this stage. If you can hold onto that person who wrote this post then you will really get things done.

I was so impressed I had to make my font larger.

It is about you, your beautiful kids and a life you all deserve.

wanttobehealthy

baby blue- thanks.... this is pretty much what I've said for a bit now -- a week or two I guess? and it's why I was feeling frustrated earlier that what I was saying seemed to be being heard differently... but ultimately the issue was with me since I can't control how others interpret what I say and if it's bothersome to me I need to just not read or reply...

BobbyJ

It seems we all hear different things when people write them.

There are a few people that write on here, that have the
gift of writing the perfect words...(and its surely not me)

I have gone back to some of my post and I actually crack up laughing
at myself. Like the one from last week or so, when my Ah said he
was moving back home....I was so out of control.
Like panic attack.
Like the weird alcoholic behavior..
I make myself laugh..

But Im so Thankful for the "Elders" the ones who have a couple of hours
or years ahead of me.

Their advice, comments, suggestions, or sharing
their experiances...seems to be just what I needed to read...

It might not apply to me at that moment, but I go back and read it the next day
and "BINGO" those ol' gals/guys knew what they were talking about.

It's kind of like turning on the History Channel...

I will say from my experiance over the last 5 months, I have learned
that I became, just as sick as the alcoholic. That is why I lost my daughter
for 3 years of her life...

When you finally get out of this situation, one way or another...

Someday, you will step back and make yourself Crack Up Laughing at all of this..

One day at a time < That was a hard one for me to learn> I wanted it NOW!!!

wanttobehealthy

[QUOTE] Clearly me either!

I also think that since we are all here and have all been impacted in some way by others addiction and acted unhealthily in our own ways as well, that we must all have triggers and what one person says in a post might be a trigger for someone else and all that gets "seen" is that one part.

For me, breaking apart the bigger picture and all the details and seeing just isolated parts that suit one's point is something that my AH has done to me in conversations to manipulate and torment me for years. It is a HUGE trigger and I guess I ought to have realized that perhaps there are people who pull isolated things out of posts (like I am doing here) not bc they are ignoring the rest intentionally and maliciously (as AH does) but bc they are struck by and get focussed on one thing and that's all that gets addressed. While I think that there may have been some of the former behavior occurring with one person, I think that most of the time it's safe for me to assume that people's intentions are good.

I used to be sure of this (people's intentions were good) and give the benefit of the doubt with ease, but being married to my H has taken that away a bit and perhaps I need to to focus on being less cynical and suspicious at times...

Babyblue

I'll just add tough that people don't post in a place like this with bad intentions. People find their way here because they are seeking support. I have yet to see a truly malicious person post. Do people post abrasively? Sure but they aren't trying to push buttons deliberately.

Sometimes I post and write something off the top of my head and then realize it may be seen as 'blunt' or 'cold' but really it isn't at all. I just have a point or two to share and I'm onto the next thread. I am trying not to do that as much because the poster is reading it through more sensitive lenses because it is their life they are talking about. It makes them more vulnerable.

I was pretty defensive at first but you know what? 99.9% of the advice or feedback turned out to be pretty accurate with regards to his recovery and relapse. I have some philosophical differences with the different approaches in dealing with the alcoholic but I accept that my experience is limited. So I try to just apply what is posted to my own situation and if it doesn't apply then so be it. It is interesting reading for sure.




[QUOTE=wanttobehealthy;2947669]

lillamy

WTBH --

You are open and honest about what is going on in your life. I don't want to speak for other people, but I can relate to some of the posters on this thread, being frustrated with how you put up with things that you are way to valuable to have to put up with.

It's hard to handle those harsh comments, the ones that question why you're not ten steps, two years, oodles of time, ahead of where you are right now. Because you wish you were. And you wish it were that easy.

Just remember that whatever the comments, they come out of frustration for your having to live in the situation you do and love for you. Sort of like when you were a kid and weren't home before curfew and your parents chewed your hindquarters off. Until you realized they were just scared when you weren't home on time, it pissed you off, right?

Same thing here. When people tell you you're an idiot for not makin' this or that decision, it's usually because they want to save you pain they have had to live through. (((hugs)))

CanfixONLYme

Lillamy,
I don't think I agree with your assessment at all. People can be concerned but to tell anyone they're "an idiot for makin' this or that decision, it's usually because they want to save you pain they have had to live through." is being ignorant (not knowing anyone here as a whole... really), abusive, and a bully. Shouldn't we all know by now that we CAN'T SAVE ANYONE BUT OURSELVES!!!?! Isn't that what we know from our addicted loved ones?!?! --- Let's not carry our torches then, to others on this board to try to use our codie tactics on them. ;(

I see others saying "I was there where you were..."...so here's what you need to do (basically that in a nutshell) and "I get so frustrated to see what you're doing... etc." --- WAKE UP PEOPLE... it's NOT ABOUT YOU. Really. You may have had a similar story, but YOU had to make YOUR mistakes and make your decisions to get where you were today.

I think it's poppycock that people would look back on someone berating them and feel 'thankful' for it... really, come on now. I had a particular 'well intended' person who just zoned in on me when I came to this forum and made it her mission to tell me how f*cked up I was (of course all in the name of her infinite wisdom and helping attitude)... not only did her posts anger me, they made me feel like a complete failure and I ended up being depressed. Of course, I choose to react in this manner, but it was the LAST thing I needed from a complete stranger on a forum that's suppose to be helping... you know?

After I had defended myself like wanttobehealthy, the person posted something nasty and said they were going to BLOCK me and said "Good Luck!" Which we all know what they really meant. The thing is ... don't give advice unless you can take a conversation back as well.

This is about wanttobehealthy and HER journey... her path to making the right choices for her. I'm pretty new in the Naranon/Alanon world but I've been a codie for a lonnnnng time and I'm quite sure that they try to teach everyone to 'listen' and to see the positives in the strides we are all trying to make in this crazy and awful disease called addiction.

I'm proud of you wanttobehealthy esp. with this:

I see AH moping or trying to get sympathy from me and I can think "hmmm, that's too bad he's down" and even say "sorry you're stressed" but I don't feel any desire to fix it and I don't feel that old feeling that was ever present (since childhood) of "let me make it better bc to be a good person I must". In fact just writing that right now makes me roll my eyes bc I don;t know how I spent 39 years thinking that was sane.

That is an AWESOME breakthrough!!!! That is just something I am yearning to attain some time soon. Kudos to you and keep posting!!!

Carol Star

I think we are all at different stages of recovery. I tried to hold on to my white picket fence, two rockers on the porch to grow old together in life, until I didn't want it anymore. Getting away became the goal instead of staying and trying to fix something that I couldn't fix or "love" away. It took me years. I hate to see someone hurting and I try to hurry the advice when I should not do that maybe. I mentioned an intervention in one friend's family and offended a family member who didn't want to do it. I stepped back from the situation. I really love SR but don't take all the advice I hear. I do appreciate everyone who in years past when I was in my "beehive of hell" trying to advise/help me . I read "let go or be dragged" one day and went damn I am being dragged. I don't take all the advice here but I do take alot of it. We are not alone....we are ALL ONE.

GettingBy

That's where I am at right now... mourning the loss of the white picket fence and rockers on the front porch. I realize that what we have is not that, and I can't fix it or love it into that dream. Our marriage is so broken, and so terminal...

And I realize after reading THAT quote... that I have been dragged along for far too long now. Letting go hurts like hell, but it's what I need to do to save me from hurting me more.

Thanks Carol Star.

stella27

WTBH, would you like to hear my comments? I won't post if you don't want me to, but I think I can simplify the issues if you want me to.

wanttobehealthy

Sure, feel free.

I think my issue is with people expecting everyone to be where they are or spending more time judging others' progress than seeing what HAS been accomplished.

Honestly, the more I am defending myself and saying repeatedly that I am NOT waiting for my AH to change, the more I am questioning what I thought I felt sure about... Why it is so hard for a select few around here to accept people where they are at and offer opinions with tact or at least not abusively, is beyond me. I am afraid that I disagree with BB and DO think that there are some people who post with bad intent. I think that there are some people who try hard to seem quite holier than thou and who in all likelihood still have a lot of their own issues to deal with. Perhaps they should stop bullying others and focus on themselves.

Much like dealing with my AH telling me I AM the cause of his drinking, someone telling me over and over that they know better than me how I feel feels downright manipulative and controlling.

I have a lot to deal with right now as do we all and if people can't say what they think without berating and attacking then they really ought to keep quiet. It's not okay to call abusive "honesty". Honesty and bluntness are fine. Abusive bullying is not.

atalose

In the beginning of my recovery I felt naive, I felt insecure when it came to issues surrounding the alcoholic in my life. I felt embarrassed and then dumb when people would tell me or write me the cold hard truth of life with an alcoholic.

I was insecure and feeling out of control so to gain my control back I debated issues, trying to prove my point! After all I couldn’t do that with the alcoholic in my life so why not the people I turned to for help and support.

Looking back now to my beginning, the support I was seeking was similar to water seeking its own level. I wanted help from those people that saw things my way, felt the same way as I did. And what I discovered was they were nice people, but as far as recovery went, they had nothing to offer me as they were my equals.

I learned that I may not like everything that people post but I have the choice to ignore it and move on. I have learned that the posts that I tended to ignore, felt like a nerve was hit, felt I was being attached, or the ones that made me feel hurt and insecure……………..were the ones that reached right down to the root of my issues, a place I either wasn’t ready to explore or too afraid to. So YES I am grateful to those so called tuff posters without them I wouldn’t be where I am today!!!!!

I noticed that this post has taken a whole different turn away from its original theme; we codies are good at that aren’t we!

Nobody can make us feel anything without our permission.

lyssabee

WTBH, let me ask you - what do you care what people think? If you know that you've made progress, why isn't that enough? As people keep saying, take what you want and leave the rest. Easy enough to ignore people who are upsetting you if that's what you think is best.

No need to answer, just something to think about.