Handling non-supporters in our lives

Old 04-26-2011, 09:28 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I had to come back and re-read all your posts.

I'm doing better, but things are still Very Weird. Like, he got asked out to dinner by sympathetic friends. Twice.

I feel like he's still being honored for being an alcoholic. Plus, excuse me, but no one is asking me for dinner. So f*ck him.

Sigh.... looks like another week at Al-Anon is in order. I'll stop going when I stop having reactions like that. Which may be never.

- Sylvie

who obviously needs a vacation.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:33 PM
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My exabf's parents were the same way. It didn't seem to matter, all the violent incidences where he broke things. Or how often he'd binge drink.

Their favorite phrase has always been: "He was drinking a little too much for a while, but he's better now."

Cuz my ex was always able to convince them that OMG, I got out of control temporarily, but now I'm reigning myself back in. I'm only going to drink on the weekends now (or whatever meaningless vow would placate them.)

It's hard when you're the only person who seems able or courageous enough or close enough and affected enough by the situation to face reality. It's a lonely place to be.

Originally Posted by BobbyJ View Post
I lost my in-laws, brother/sister in-laws...And we are not even divorced yet.

At first I was mad & very sad, but then I learned I cant be mad at them.

I feel sad for them, that they have not taken the time to learn what
alcoholism is and they are major enablers to my husband...
They say he just drinks too much, but he is not an alcoholic..

They have no clue of what alcoholism is all about...
All they have ever seen is the guy who sits at the kitchen counter
and has a nice pretty glass filled with whiskey and topped off with ice.

And the same applies with most of our friends.

And it applied to me when I first met him, I also thought is was just a cocktail..
15 Years later....My eyes are open and my life is un-manageable...

Dont be mad at your parents, they are just not educated in alcoholism.

Do what is right for you...
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:46 PM
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It's amazing, the depths of denial.

My ex actually did cocaine, felt bad about it, and for like..ONE MINUTE..acknowledged that the cocaine use was caused by a drinking problem. He cried to his parents about his drinking problem.

See, cocaine was one of my dealbreakers, and he did it. After promising me he wouldn't. When I tried to break up with him, he said, wait wait, I did coke cuz I have a drinking problem. You wouldn't leave someone with a drinking problem would you? How could you leave me in my hour of need?

However, when I asked when he was going to go to AA, the next day, he didn't feel like he needed it. I told him, ok, you said you had a problem. You cried to your parents. You made me feel guilty if i didn't stay with you to support you while we get help.

Why don't we do a test. See if you can stay sober for 30 days. If you can't, then you gotta admit you need help.

Well, this all happened a couple weeks before July 4th. The Friday of July 4th weekend, he told me he was going to the bar with his friends because, it's July 4th!! Of course! I said, ok, fine but if you do that, I'm walking.

He decided to let me walk.

A month later he told me he was sorry he let me go. He claimed he was doing therapy and going to AA, so I went back with him, stupidly, way too soon. I thikn he went to 1 therapy appt and 1 AA Meeting. That was it. Next thing you know he's back at the bar again.

And where were his parents during all this? NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. Not helping me or supporting me at all.

Originally Posted by ukiah77 View Post
My AH's parents know their son is an alcoholic, they've known for years but chose to ignore it and bury their heads in the sand. They used to provide alcohol to him and his friends when they were teenagers. I have been reaching out to them for support when things got really bad at home. I found the courage to be open and honest when I told my father in law about some scary situations that happened when AH was drunk, and how I was concerned that it was starting to effect our children. I thought he was going to be understanding because he has witnessed a lot of this behavior with his own eyes for many years now. He looked at me and said, "Well, I'm not going to judge my son based on hear say from you, I'm not sure what to believe...." Is he serious? Is he implying that I could be lying or making this stuff up? The holes in the walls and broken door hinges should be proof enough wouldn't you think? My father in law has also made comments in the past like, "I saw him last night and he didn't seem that drunk to me...." Drunk is drunk, either you are or you're not. That night my AH was wasted, yes he was still walking and talking, but he was agressive and irrational and was on a rampage over nothing. I am hurt and disappointed with my in-laws reaction to me reaching out for their support in helping their son. They almost make it sound like I'm making a bigger deal than it is. But they don't live under my roof. They have no idea. It's too bad that when I tell them, they basically act like they don't believe me. It's sad. Really sad.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:27 PM
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long addendum

Ah. So I'm coming back to this - 4 months later - because I did NOT set boundaries with my parents.
There are deep-seated parenting choices that they made, and are still trying to make, that did not help me. Especially the part where they question my reality. I spoke with both of them today, and they asked how things were going with my xABF.

My mom suggested (and I wish I could remember the actual insidious words she used) that my perspective was inaccurate or skewed.

Then when she could tell from my tone of voice that I was getting frustrated, wanted to change the subject.

I said no. I don't want to change the subject. My perspective is not skewed. Anyone who knows T. and has been to his house knows that he's an alcoholic and a hoarder and doesn't trust teenagers. And yes, in January, I was deeply in love with him - he'd been on court-ordered abstinence. By March, he was back to binge drinking 3, 4, 5 nights a week. Just because I loved him, and still love him, doesn't mean that I am willing to live with him.

No, my world is not black and white. Love is messy. No, I don't think that inviting him to counseling is a good idea - I've suggested it, multiple times, and he's just not interested. It's not up to me to force the issue, nor do I think that someone can or should change their value system to accommodate a partnership.

Basically, and again, she is running off at the mouth with backhanded judgmental crap based on not enough information, combined with concern that has no compassion.

So what's my problem? That I still listen to her out of a sense of obligation? I suppose. She's nuts. I'm pretty sure she doesn't even like me.

I am done sharing with my mother. It's going to be the Hallmark postcard edition of my life from now on. If she asks for more information, I'll change the subject. If she gives her opinion, I'll say goodbye. I will not visit her - she's TOXIC!

Oh, and let's add in DAD, too! "Perhaps you're mistaken about T." No, no I'm not mistaken, either about the deleterious effects of his alcoholism on our relationship, or on how I feel about it. When I said 'you're hurting my feelings', he first denied he'd said that, then changed to 'just trying to play devil's advocate'. He's trying to tell me that he know me better than I know myself! My past relationship mistakes were errors in character judgement. There's nothing wrong with T's character - it's the f*ing ALCOHOLISM that did me in.

They have no trust in my ability to be an adult, or even a person. They are BAD PARENTS. I am a GOOD PARENT - I called all my kids to tell them how proud I am of them, and how much faith I have in them to make good decisions based on their solid values.

I called my xABF too, to thank him for being as willing as he is to go forward with love. He doesn't think he's an alcoholic, but I expected that from him.

Boundaries with my parents: I don't need to justify my decisions. "We're fine. Thank you for your concern. I am continuing doing what is best for me and the kids." And then change the subject.

Thank you all again. My parents have NO idea about alcoholism. And they're whacked.

I don't suppose there's an 85-year-old couple that wants to adopt me? No? Darn.

- Sylvie, better luck next time.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:38 PM
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Sorry Sylvie. There is much I don't share with my parents because they can be toxic.

I'm not 85, but I'll adopt you!
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sylvie66 View Post
Boundaries with my parents: I don't need to justify my decisions. "We're fine. Thank you for your concern. I am continuing doing what is best for me and the kids." And then change the subject.
BTW, this is excellent!
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:28 PM
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Sylvie

Thanks for opening this post up again. I posted a number of weeks ago on a slightly different topic about anger with my family, and I just got the answers I needed in this post. It is amazing how that all works. The Awareness, Acceptance, Action spoke volumes to me.

I am sorry you are still hurting and struggling with this.

I am so grateful for Al-Anon and this website.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:53 PM
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Much like arguing with an A is useless, it sounds to me that trying to explain anything rational, healthy or otherwise sane to your parents is going to fall on deaf ears the way sane thoughts do on A's.

Think of your parents as having a disease like that of an A.

I started to do that with my own FOO and it made me a) much more willing to be around them when I had to be and b) much less disturbed by the quacking that is constantly spilling from their mouths.

Clearly we don't get involved with A's and stay longer than we know we should because we grew up with ideal role models, right?

Suki said this earlier Sadly, people can be toxic to us even if they are part of our family. and I'd wager to say that it's actually quite the case that our families more so than most others are the ones that are toxic.

Whatever lessons we learn growing up- starting very very young about whether it's okay to ask for what we need, to stand up for ourselves, to be "selfish" etc... get ingrained and are a part of our brains wiring. Only with lots of introspection and hard work (like you do and I do and most people who make it here do) are we able to start to see things more clearly and learn what's healthy for us. And there's bound to be pushback from those who aren't interested or able to join us on that self discovery journey.

Please please please know that your parents words and hurtful non support has NOTHING to do with you. It's their issue. You are doing what's healthy and it's clear to me that your parents aren't able or willing to see that, perhaps bc they themselves don't know what healthy looks like (that's what I tell myself about my own FOO)...

They don't know better (which is not an excuse at all) but much like an A can't see what's in front of them until THEY are ready to, your parents aren't going to suddenly "get it" and it seems to me that the more you interact with them the more distressing it is to you.

Do you have good friends you can turn to instead? I've slowly started to create my own non blood family and accepted that my FOO is not ever going to be that supportive, loving, healthy group of people I'd love us all to be. Rather than let it distress me, I try to accept it and have found "family" in other places.

I'm so sorry for all you're dealing with and I know all too well how much it hurts to not have the people who you'd think would be there for you most, not be there at all.

I'm sorry...
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:45 PM
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Well my daddy issues are no secret, went No contact with him, have kept it to a minimum.


Recently I realized more of my mommy issues and I am going NC with her, too...

It hurts to feel more lonely, on the other side I can trust SR, therapist, and a couple of other people that believe in me and want the best for me, all of you plus HP is more than enough support at this point.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:55 AM
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Those of us who were raised in toxic homes and have parents with deep issues have a harder time developing "healthy" adult relationships because our parents are still a mess themselves.

I will give a recent example of what my 85 yo mother just did to my brother the other day... but first quick history of our alcoholic past. Father was raging alcoholic of the dangerous kind (firing guns over our head, pretending to commit suicide, running over pets with vehicles were just a few childhood traumas) and despite begging my mother to leave him she chose to stay because he threatened to burn the house down with us in it. My mother has an unhealthy attachment to things and the thought of her furniture and belongings being burned up and lost in a fire was something she simply could not handle along with a financial collapse with the seperation/divorce. So we three kids lived in a very sick, scary alcoholic home and all have lots of scars from that crazy time... as for my mother she finally figured out a way to get her "stuff" by getting an emergency court order from a judge to remove her things with sheriffs deputies standing by after we were all grown.

Fast forward... my mother is now 85 and I have been supporting her for over 15 years and recently bought her a new house and my brother now 44 years old is living with her and taking care of her. He was mowing the lawn (a 4 hour job as it a huge 5 acre yard) and he didn't see her gesturing for him to stop (she wanted him to immediately move all her National Geographics from 1950 forward from storage into her home). She assumed he was ignoring her and when he came back around on the next pass she was face down in the grass in his mowing path. As she is extremely frail with lots of serious health issues he assumed the worst and about had a heart attack running over to her yelling "Mom, Mom" and when he got close enough she picked her head up and turned around and with a mean look "Got your attention didn't I"?

When he told me that I realized her behavior was something our alcoholic daddy would do to her or to us... he is still haunting us from the grave (he died alone and with a drink in his hand pickled from top to bottom).

My mother is a product of her own dysfunctional childhood (child of an A mother) and living during the great depression and decades of a very sick A husband. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone and too old to change and I am committed to making her final years as happy as possible and understanding that she is not capable of healthy thinking patterns or relationship building makes it pretty easy to keep myself from expecting too much.

If I don't expect much I don't get disappointed. My sister on the other hand is completely different.. totally traumatized by the fact that my mother never bonded with her as a child and the lack of a normal loving parent/child relationship.

With toxic parents you pray the serenity prayer, you smile and love them, sometimes from a distance or in my case up close... but always with a wise perspective and with sympathy as they are still sick and you are getting well spiritually and emotionally. And... most importantly you are breaking off what has been a generational passing along of toxic thinking, living, behaving and parenting and passing along healthy stuff to your own children who are watching and learning how you interact with others including toxic loved ones.

Lots of counseling has helped me cope with my own parents and learning how to parent myself without good role models ... hope my story helps someone when they are struggling with a difficult relative!

Oh... and humor helps a lot ... its not easy to laugh at crazy behavior when its happening but in time it you do begin to see the humor in it... or course, it may be because I still need more therapy
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