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Old 04-17-2011, 10:27 AM
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Anyone else seen this?

My AH just sent me links to a host of websites that "prove" in his mind I guess, what my "diagnosis" is as well as what my personality is like, my mental state is like etc...

He is a teacher but clearly missed his calling as a pop psychologist.

I am seeing clearly why my T warned me months ago to keep a copious journal of his illegal/dangerous behavior that I knew of (as well as his rants) bc the disturbing part of what he sent me was this- there was a whole host of ways he is claiming I am trying to turn the girls against him, why I am an unfit mother (with highlighted sections from webpages to "prove" his points) etc....

I didn't read it all copiously and I am not going to. I did fwd it to my lawyer though. I am not going to respond to it in any way but it really struck me as odd.

Anyone else's A do things like this?
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:40 AM
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Well, yes, I got the deflection in terms of what was wrong with me so that it took the focus off him. But that was just a flip of what I was doing to him, so in hindsight I would say we were quits.

In your case based on what you have written previously, though, I would say that this is a MAJOR "watch your back" sign. He is not going to let you go quietly. Good call on passing them to your lawyer.

You mentioned on another post that he has been diagnosed with a PD. Have you found any forums for those that are dealing with spouses with a PD?
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:02 AM
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You mentioned on another post that he has been diagnosed with a PD. Have you found any forums for those that are dealing with spouses with a PD?
Yup. BPD family.com Its been great and it was on there that I started to think more about his alcoholism (I think I was in denial about him being an A for a long time) and tried to think that this was all "just" PD. I've realized and read now in a lot of places that PD's can't really be treated/managed when there is active addiction -- so, while many of the ways he acts out are very much BPD and alcoholic in nature, the "tools" to use when dealing with someone with BPD who is NOT an addict are just a waste of my time when dealing with addiction too.

I am glad it wasn't just me that found that email odd. It kind of made me worry- a lot. I'm seeing things in him that are farrrrrrr too remiscent of what my own BPD mother did to my father when he left her. She managed to get the courts to ban him from seeing any of us without court supervision and HE was not the crazy/abusive one. The fear of abandonment stuff of BPD is shining brightly from my AH right now and as bad as I feel lining my ducks up in a row behind his back legally, I think that this email from him showed me that I'd better do so asap.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:14 AM
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Isn't it funny? I had the opposite journey. It was the alcoholism that drove me to seek help, but the reading about PD (and especially the manipulation tactics of people with NPD) that led me to leave. Anway, I'm not sure that any diagnosis of PD (amateur or professional) is very reliable when drink or drugs are in the picture. What really helped was seeing that manipulation for what it was for me in the here and now. I ended up not really caring about the "why", I was more bothered about the impact on me.

Yes, you need to make sure that you have done everything you can, especially as far as moving states is concerned. And I now that you feel like you were given a rough ride on your other thread, but please know that folk here are actually on your side. Engaging with him is only giving him more material for his file. You are smart. Use those smarts to protect yourself.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:24 AM
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Yes, you need to make sure that you have done everything you can, especially as far as moving states is concerned. And I now that you feel like you were given a rough ride on your other thread, but please know that folk here are actually on your side. Engaging with him is only giving him more material for his file. You are smart. Use those smarts to protect yourself.
I didn't feel people were against me at all-- I just got frustrated mostly that I knew what I was trying to say and clearly it was not coming out right and I didn't think I was doing the best job of explaining myself clearly and there were conclusions being drawn etc... I really am fine with blunt, to the point opinions. I just felt like at times things were being made black and white when there are a lot of shades of gray involved (as far as my feelings, my confusion, what the "best" thing is to do etc....

Anyway, I agree that I just give him fuel when I engage and seeing this email from him is going to be the first thing I think of when I am tempted to open my mouth next time (with him!)

Thanks!
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:03 PM
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I had a similar experience in that my EXABF pointed out websites that he felt supported his drinking habits and pointed out ways in which I should be more supportive of his lifestyle choices.

At first I was horrified, but I'm thankful that it came at a time in my recovery in which I was taking my inventory and not his. I had stopped analyzing his behavior and started analyzing my own. I saw all too clearly how for a decade I had been presenting him with my own 'proof' that he had a drinking problem on top of undiagnosed bipolar disorder (books, websites, medical journals, AA material). I had been playing psychologist and had him on the proverbial couch our whole relationship telling him how his parent's drinking, divorce, lack of attention, their diagnosed depression and bipolar, etc put him on this path. Oh, I had it all tied up for him. Couldn't understand at all why he didn't see my logic.

It's no wonder, this little hypocrite (ME) got a taste of her own unjustly prescribed medicine!

Experience with my EX tells me that when they see their primary enabler/supporter changing in recovery (even unconsciously) they rebel with a rapid fire of old tactics and new odd ones. It's the addiction's lopsided equation trying to balance itself. By pointed out where our flaws are and getting us back on our heels, they achieve the position of power (or rather the addiction does) and they get closer to the status quo of chaos that allows them freedom to use. When doesn't happen they try more tactics. Like spinning wheels in mud and rapidly changing gears thinking that will move the car.

I think the fact that you are seeing his behavior as odd and seeing it more as a something he's trying to engage you with rather than taking it personally and allowing it to emotionally derail you shows your recovery growth.

Alice
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:11 PM
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Mine doesnt do this, but, he does turn things around on me.

If I talk about communicating with "I feel" statements, then he will throw that at me when I become unhinged.

He doesnt really try to diagnose me, except for blaming everything on bad PMS.

And, truthfully, I do have really bad PMS.
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:36 PM
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Oh yeah... if you go back through my posts... I think it was about two weeks ago, I talked about my AH taking my "inventory." He had himself a good ole time dissecting me and my issues and all the things I did to ruin our marriage.

It sucked. And to be honest, when he does that, I instantly understand how my little rants/raves make him feel. It's no fun having someone tell you how to live.
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Old 04-17-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66 View Post
Mine doesnt do this, but, he does turn things around on me.

If I talk about communicating with "I feel" statements, then he will throw that at me when I become unhinged.

He doesnt really try to diagnose me, except for blaming everything on bad PMS.

And, truthfully, I do have really bad PMS.
Oh, yes.....every disagreement we have ever had is because of PMS!! And I don't even have PMS!!
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:57 PM
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My exABF, while he was stalking me after our first break up, left "Beyond Codependancy" by Melody Beatty on my doorstep once. Wrote a love note inside that said, "thought you could use a little reading material", something like that. We got a giggle about it on here. You're driving by my house, leaving things, calling, emailing, texting, insisting that I need to be with you, and I'M the one that needs the codie book?

The only difference is that mine was a blessing, because I actually needed that book.

Still silly all the same.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:04 PM
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I have a friend who was just telling me that her RAH was doing the EXACT same thing to her. You are not alone. This is such a wonderful way for the alcoholics to avoid looking at themselves. Apparently, for my friend, when they had an argument, he would "accidentally" leave a printout of her disorder on the kitchen table. When she picked it up, he would say, "Oh, don't look at that, it's not about you". Talk about making somebody paranoid and crazy!!
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:30 PM
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Oh, yes. My ABF is 'worried about me'. He told my oldest friend that he thinks I've become increasingly irrational over the last few months. Why else would I leave him when things were getting better? sheesh.
I called him tonight because he asked me to let him know I was ok in LA, and in the beginning it was fine, but degenerated quickly to an awful lot of quacking. Most of which I don't choose to remember; I'm busy. Fortunately, I must have ticked him off, because he hung up on me. That's one way to disengage, I suppose.

- Sylvie
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
My AH just sent me links to a host of websites that "prove" in his mind I guess, what my "diagnosis" is as well as what my personality is like, my mental state is like etc...
wanttobehealthy,

oh, how do i thank you for this post. i am sooo glad i came across it and read it. my AH does the exact same thing. he has pamphlets and had sent me a text w/ a webpage that i needed to read ("out of concern" for my well being). he worked in a mental health field for 13 yrs, so he has plenty of ammunition to go on.

this is not the first time this was happening (kids and i are living w/ my parents now for little over 1 month). after our firstborn came, he had everyone including my family and me convinced that i was going through postpartum depression and i was so stressed out and sleep deprived that i actually ended in a hospital and got depressed also. i have been seeing a psychiatrist for the past 3 yrs (up until our insurance got canceled due to his voluntary layoff).

according to him, i have borderline personality and major depression, none of which i was diagnosed with. this time he also tried to again tell my family about my mental state, but thankfully they saw through it this time.

oh and by the way, my AH is not an alcoholic. his DOC is cocaine (from what i know). i mean, he does occasionally drink and has been smoking pot for yrs, but it was cocaine that had made me leave.

i'm not sure if i should laugh or be afraid, or both, b/c it is really scary to me that he would try to pull something like this. it not only lets him take focus off of himself and his addiction, it is something that he is capable of bringing up in court when it comes to custody (not sure if you guys have any children together). most of the time i try not to think about things that he says and try to take care of my well being.

i just wanted to thank you for your post and let you know that you're not alone. hope things get better for you.

hugs and prayers.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:46 AM
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Hi everyone, I can relate to some of these behaviours in my ex.
Can you please tell me what PD and NPD stand for?
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:58 AM
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pacificsunrise...
I'm going to send you a private message but I wanted to tell you that I really, really appreciate your post and I got chills reading it (bc I left the history of how much my H has done this out) bc I too had the H who tried to convince me (and worse, his family, mine, our friends) that he "feared" for our newborn when she was with me (and this was during a time that he was screaming at her- as a 2 week old- bc she wasn't "letting" him sleep at night). Oh I could go on and on.... But what jumped out most was the reference to Borderline Personality Disorder. I'd recommend you DO read about it- but in terms of your H being the one with it- and read about it not to diagnose him but to understand that YOU are not crazy and to "learn" I guess the tricks that you can expect. BPD and NPD individuals spend a lot of their time trying to tell others (and if they are high functioning they do this quite convincingly) that their spouse or significant other is the one with the problem. Been there. I'll send you a separate message too... Hang in there...

Originally Posted by pacificsunrise View Post
wanttobehealthy,

oh, how do i thank you for this post. i am sooo glad i came across it and read it. my AH does the exact same thing. he has pamphlets and had sent me a text w/ a webpage that i needed to read ("out of concern" for my well being). he worked in a mental health field for 13 yrs, so he has plenty of ammunition to go on.

this is not the first time this was happening (kids and i are living w/ my parents now for little over 1 month). after our firstborn came, he had everyone including my family and me convinced that i was going through postpartum depression and i was so stressed out and sleep deprived that i actually ended in a hospital and got depressed also. i have been seeing a psychiatrist for the past 3 yrs (up until our insurance got canceled due to his voluntary layoff).

according to him, i have borderline personality and major depression, none of which i was diagnosed with. this time he also tried to again tell my family about my mental state, but thankfully they saw through it this time.

oh and by the way, my AH is not an alcoholic. his DOC is cocaine (from what i know). i mean, he does occasionally drink and has been smoking pot for yrs, but it was cocaine that had made me leave.

i'm not sure if i should laugh or be afraid, or both, b/c it is really scary to me that he would try to pull something like this. it not only lets him take focus off of himself and his addiction, it is something that he is capable of bringing up in court when it comes to custody (not sure if you guys have any children together). most of the time i try not to think about things that he says and try to take care of my well being.

i just wanted to thank you for your post and let you know that you're not alone. hope things get better for you.

hugs and prayers.:to you
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jemma View Post
Hi everyone, I can relate to some of these behaviours in my ex.
Can you please tell me what PD and NPD stand for?
BPD (borderline personality disorder)
NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)
PD (personality disorder)
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:43 AM
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want,

borderlines are difficult to understand and to deal with. but the alcoholism does have to be arrested before you/him can look at that.

perhaps you have reached a point where you no longer accept email from him?
it sounds like it would be upsetting - to me, anyway, it would be.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:15 AM
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borderlines are difficult to understand and to deal with. but the alcoholism does have to be arrested before you/him can look at that.
absolutely-- though it does help to know in my own mind that there is more at play than alcoholism and that i shouldn't assume/hope/expect that even if he works on recovery from alcoholism that the bpd behaviors will improve (which interestingly are awfully similar to a lot of A behavior)
perhaps you have reached a point where you no longer accept email from him?
it sounds like it would be upsetting - to me, anyway, it would be.
i won't be replying to/responding to his emails but i decided to not block them bc frankly they are proof for me in terms of demonstrating that the saintly "i care about my wife and she is so ill" behavior is a calculated, snarky attack. i will just fwd on to my lawyer anything he is foolish enough to send me and let my lawyer determine what is useful...
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
i won't be replying to/responding to his emails but i decided to not block them bc frankly they are proof for me in terms of demonstrating that the saintly "i care about my wife and she is so ill" behavior is a calculated, snarky attack. i will just fwd on to my lawyer anything he is foolish enough to send me and let my lawyer determine what is useful...
i think that is a great idea, b/c that way you do have a documented proof of his behaviors rather than just your word against his (which we know changes with the wind). same reason, i have all my AH texts and voicemails saved.

wanttobehealthy,

thank you for your kind reply. i was away from SR yesterday and didn't get your message until today.

i really appreciate the encouragement.
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