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Old 04-16-2011, 05:09 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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It is so hard for me to see sometimes that I am being sucked in and starting to dance. I never know when Mr. Reasonable becomes Mr. Insane. It can change in a heart beat. The only way for certain not to dance is not to talk, but when you are living with an A and have a family with an A that is pretty much impossible. I am not to the point where I want to leave or want him to leave so I am learning the fine points of detachment and setting boundaries. I am trying to determine how to respond or act when I don't like what is going on. I am trying to see when I am being baited and a lot of the time I am in the middle of the dance before I see it. BUT at least I can see it now! Once I see it I know what to do which is just stop. Funny because once I stop it only takes about a sentence or two before he stops. He knows I get it and I'm not dancing.

I personally do not do the list. If things were going better in each of your recoveries then maybe, but since you two are still dancing I think it is only going to lead to more dancing.

The whole cell phone thing would tick me off too. ("thanks for telling me you ARE in fact hiding things from me") ...sure sign that it is not a healthy relationship.

Time to refocus on you and your needs. Moving sounds like a great idea. He is making it easy for you to determine that. I guess in an odd way it is something to be thankful for.

Hugs!
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:17 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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You are a smart lady and a good mom, and you are figuring this out.

Just because someone asks a question doesn't mean that you have to answer. This was a new concept to me as I was raised to be polite and engaged and I am a lawyer so I love to try to explain my side of things.

And I never understand why everyone doesn't agree with me. With AXH, I just had to give up. I had to throw up my hands and tell myself "it doesn't matter what I say. it won't change his beliefs. I have to know what's true for MY sake and I can't worry about what he thinks/who his friends are/what he's doing. I have to protect MY sanity. Mine."

And what I learned is that I could only do that AWAY from him.
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:51 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Hello wtbh,

You are obviously unhappy with your marriage. I assumed that the topic of what you expect out of your marriage and how unhappy you have been had come up already, since your other posts talk about how you are planning a move. Perhaps I got confused with another poster, sorry about that.

Yes he asked you a question, and your opinion. That means that you feel he is entitled to an answer. Okay. By all means, if your opinion is that important to him, keep giving it.

I also know the irrepressible drive to remind the A that "I know what is going on." God forbid they might think they are getting away with something, i'll show him how much I know. Proving myself "right" never did anything but raise my blood pressure. But if it's that important to you to be right, continue to do it.

I am a classic co-dependant. I AM sicker than the alcoholic. I have many of the same traits.. low self esteem, controlling, manipulative, selfish. I spent years obsessing over what my ASF (and in later years my ABF) was doing with his life, trying to help him, lecture him, fix him, change him, teach him a lesson, show him what he was doing was wrong, show him what he was doing to ME, and our family. I hid liquor, I counted bottles, and enabled in more ways than I can list here. I beat myself up because I couldn't stop them, couldn't make them see, so I tried harder. I spent hours/days/weeks/months/years tormenting myself and everyone around me because of the choices they made, and letting those choices rule my life, and my life became unmanageable because of it.

The A spent years getting drunk. That's all they did. A's don't go around trying to change everyone. ( I realize there are exceptions to this). They don't go around so absorbed in what other people are doing and trying to run other's lives that they can't even take care of themselves. They don't go around playing god to everyone around them, taking personally every word, action, or thought that others have. They don't spend years getting lied to, cheated on, s**t on, emotionally, mentally, and physically abused. They just want to be left alone, to live in their own little world, and drink. You tell me who's sicker.

BTW, the A that shared that insight with me has over 3 decades sobriety.

Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:27 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I also know the irrepressible drive to remind the A that "I know what is going on." God forbid they might think they are getting away with something, i'll show him how much I know. Proving myself "right" never did anything but raise my blood pressure. But if it's that important to you to be right, continue to do it.
I did that for a long time. What I did yesterday was stand up for myself. I think that's different and for years I've been threatened and afraid to say anything and I am not afraid of what he might say in response or whether he might go drink if he doesn't like what I say so for me, when I feel it's important to state what is important to MY life, I'm going to say it. Not to change him, manipulate him etc... or any of the other reasons suggested. Though I did do those things for a long time. Now I simply want to say "this is my line in the sand" and saying it aloud helps me make it clear to myself that I mean it.


It is so hard for me to see sometimes that I am being sucked in and starting to dance. I never know when Mr. Reasonable becomes Mr. Insane. It can change in a heart beat. The only way for certain not to dance is not to talk, but when you are living with an A and have a family with an A that is pretty much impossible. I am not to the point where I want to leave or want him to leave so I am learning the fine points of detachment and setting boundaries. I am trying to determine how to respond or act when I don't like what is going on. I am trying to see when I am being baited and a lot of the time I am in the middle of the dance before I see it. BUT at least I can see it now! Once I see it I know what to do which is just stop. Funny because once I stop it only takes about a sentence or two before he stops. He knows I get it and I'm not dancing.
It really is true that it changes in a heartbeat just as you describe and it's not always easy to see that that's what's happening until you're in it. With everything in life there's a learning curve and I for one am finding it far more useful to cut myself slack and say "I got sucked in again but I got out faster and dealt with it better and next time I'll take what I learned and do it even better" than to beat myself up and say "I'm a failure". I'm 39 yrs old- I've been "trained" to act as I have for my entire life and it's been about a year since I started SEEING what was going on around me and within me. Anyone, including myself, who expects that I'm going to go from where I was to the epitome of health overnight is delusional. It's taken me the better part of this year to learn that lesson alone. So while I need to fix a lot of what I do and how I interact with AH I am doing a lot better now than I've ever done before and I'm looking at this as a process and not going to beat myself up for taking 3 steps fwd, 1 step back etc... It is what it is. When I "check out" and stop trying that's when there will be a problem. As long as I am thinking about this and actively trying to improve, I'm okay with how I'm doing. I don't expect perfection from others and I'm not going to expect it from myself. Doing that for most of my life has resulted in more problems than I can count.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:17 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post

Sometimes I wish I were the A since there seems to be a wide berth for doing pretty much anything they want and calling it "early recovery".
no, they can't.

your guy might be doing this, but i don't think truly, serious recovering folks do.


in answer to your question, i would just say to NOT ENGAGE, NOT ENGAGE.
you are not obligated to discuss, answer questions, justify your behavior, ask questions, deflect, or anything verbal.

i would suggest not talking to this man whenever possible. and i think it's possible way more often than you believe it is.

it's new behavior; you're not used to acting like this. it feels "mean" or "wong", but it isn't.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:44 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=coffeedrinker;2937673]no, they can't.

your guy might be doing this, but i don't think truly, serious recovering folks do.


in answer to your question, i would just say to NOT ENGAGE, NOT ENGAGE.
you are not obligated to discuss, answer questions, justify your behavior, ask questions, deflect, or anything verbal.

i would suggest not talking to this man whenever possible. and i think it's possible way more often than you believe it is.

it's new behavior; you're not used to acting like this. it feels "mean" or "wrong", but it isn't.[/QUOTE]

YES! This! It's a learned behavior...I practice it every day - every day! And some days are better than others, believe me. I am not perfect, but I am getting better at detaching and not second-guessing myself. I don't really care anymore if my boundaries come across as mean to someone else - because if they do - that someone else is not someone I want in my life anyway.

Thanks, coffeedrinker - that was well said!
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