What is right, what is wrong?
 

Hey again,

well a few month ago, i wrote here about my boyfriend who has a huge Problem with alcohol.
A lot of thinks happenend, since my last post.
Funny thing, I never thought that is gonna happen. He got released out of the Army. The last two month were really tuff. He went Awol again in feb. and that was the beginning of bad things happening. I had the MP's a few times at my place looking for him and so on. Wasn't really fun. Anyways, one night, he came home so drunk, and was so depressed of everything in his life and started talking about killing himself again. Well I did what I never thought i will do, and called the MP. I knew at that time he didn't show up again for work. So it was quit the comotion, the police was here and then the MP's came, handcuffed him and took him away. He was in jail for a few days, then he had his trial and they gave him 21 days jail time in Edmonton. He called me after his trial, and told me those news, he asked me, if i please wouldn't date anybody else while he is gone and that he loves me. By that time he didnt had a drink for almost a week. Anyways he spend his 21 days in jail, came back with knowing his career is done as a soldier. He said its ok with him, its kinda even a relief.
Well in the end he was sober for a month, i had my hopes up high. I thought jail time, was his hitting rock bottom. Well no, i was wrong. 2 days later, after he came home, he started drinking again. He has no where to go, and we try to move in together. But since he is back from jail, he is not motivated at all anymore. Nothing is getting done. He not even knows if he wants to be with me anymore or not, he knows he needs me, because if i wouldn't give him a place to life he would be homeless. He always says, i put to much pressure on him. Do I?
Well he knows he isn't aloud to drink at my place and he doesn't, he rather goes out spend 100$ dollars at a bar, which is always the same one and comes home drunk. I told him, if he wants to life with me, it might be better, to have a few beers at my place, then at the bar, because it would be cheaper, because he has to pay me rent and so on as well. But if he keeps drinking the way he does, their will be no money left for rent.
He looked at me, like i would be crazy. Am I? I just try to do the right thing.
But he said, no he won't drink at my place. Next day he went out again, drinking. I mean he isn't going out every day drinking anymore, but still a few times a week.
And I just don't know what to say or do. I told him, I dont care anymore, about his drinking. If he wants to drink, drink. I'm not in the mood to fight all the time. talking doesn't help. but what would help?

Oh life is so complicated

This is a link to a post that contains steps to take when dealing with a loved ones addiction. It helped me, I hope it helps you too:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

Well, let's see. You want to encourage the guy to drink at home instead of at a bar so he can afford to live with you and share the rent. Sounds a little crazy to me.

As long as he drinks, and you allow him to live with you, you are buying trouble for yourself. He hasn't been responsible while drinking up to now--what makes you think he is suddenly going to care about paying the rent or do anything to hold up his end of any relationship as long as he continues to drink?

welcome back and please read the two preceding posts again.

He needs you to continue allowing him to drink.

He has stated that he does not know if he wants to be with you, but is more than happy to use your home as a hotel.

He is drinking outside the home. You have offered for him to drink inside the home.

Please read around the forum, and start listing out what you want.
It is hard to tell from your post.

Enabling is a word that means that we create an environment that makes it easier for addicts to continue on in ther addiction.

This is actually NOT helping them.

And that does not even begin to address the fact that you are being terribly used and mistreated.

Is this what you want for yourself?
What would a healthy relationship look like to you?

Please keep posting and especially reading here in the forum!

Well, I don't know what to say.
He doesn't want to stop drinking. So if he doesn't want to, it doesn't make sence to always make terror about his drinking. If he drinks at the bar or at my place, what difference is there? In my eyes none. I have to deal with him drunk, one way or the other.
And drinking at home would be cheaper. Why I would think that, if he wouldn't life with me, he would be on the street. Does that help him? I don't think so.
I read tons of stuff about Alcohlisim, and all what i always is, get away from him. Its frustrating. I lost a lot of friends of him, and every time i try to get help for me, I just get, leave him.
I don't want to leave him, I love him and ya I would like that we had a great realtionship, but we don't because he drinks. Ah its so frustrating. Guess nobody understands me, ever.

Sprman

It is not a matter of not understanding.

This forum is the right place for you, because, truly, we do understand.
Many of us have been right where you are.

I think what is being put forth to you is a question:

Are you happy?
Is your life what you want it to be?
Is being with him worth not having the two things above?

If his alcoholism is the only thing that is causing problems in the relationship, but it is a major problem, and he DOES NOT WANT TO STOP...

then, I think the people in your life are posing the only real questions for you.
You cannot control him,
You cannot cure him,
You did not cause his addiction...

But you are not living a full life.
Enough that you have come here, to seek advice and help.

Is it worth it?

And if the answer to that question for you is yes, then most folks here will suggest you go to AL-anon to gain tools for coping with a loved ones alcoholism.

Because there are many many people here who still live with/deal with/love an active alcoholic.

Everyone is different,

But for me, losing the respect of friends and family, and even actually losing friends

this was somewhat of a red flag for me, back then.
I realized that I was willing to ematiate my own life, my own needs, my own self worth in order to have the love of a man who was unable to properly love and care for me, LET ALONE HIMSELF>

Please keep posting

Did I say you should leave him?

You asked whether what you were proposing sounded crazy (telling him to drink at home to save money so you can split the rent). I'm not quite sure why you asked if you weren't interested in the answer.

Where is he getting the money to drink at the bar?

He's told you he isn't even sure he wants to be with you, but he "needs" you because you are giving him a place to live. He is all but spelling it out: "I would like to continue to USE you, as long as you don't make it too uncomfortable for me."

We ALL understand, believe me. We have all done the same kinds of things trying to "save" someone who has no interest in being "saved." And, in the process, we lost a whole lot of ourselves.

You don't have to leave him. But you don't have to take him in to live with you, either.

Being on the street MIGHT help him.

In my relationship with my XABF (ex-alcoholic boyfriend), I provided him a place to stay, money to bail him out when he overspent, and a scapegoat to blame when he kept drinking. He started having health problems from the alcohol, and as a result, he'd drink even more. It was an endless cycle, and runaway train, until I felt like my entire life was about working, coming home, doing chores around the apartment, and going to bed. He made twice as much as I did, and did absolutely nothing but spend all that plus my money, too.

Mine did not drink at bars, but always around the house. I used to wish he would got to a bar, so at least I've have some time and space to myself, because I was thoroughly miserable and did not feel I had time to even think.

The more I did for him, the less he did for himself, until his life consisted of reading the paper, and barking orders at me for things he wanted me to do around the apartment, and all the while he complained that I didn't help him enough, and that he needed a woman who would just do everything so he didn't even have to ask for anything.

It was a miserable existence.
I was a shadow, fading away, constantly depressed.
That's no way to live.


sprman24,
Nobody here will tell you what to do, all we can do is share our own experiences.
I would ask, what are you getting out of this relationship?
And what do you expect out of a relationship?

He is the person that he is, and you have to accept the whole package, not just the bits you like. He is who he is, and it is unfair to him to expect anything other than that from him.

What do you want?
And start from there.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

He's going to keep doing what he is doing, which is walking all over you, as long as you let him. It's your decision how long it will last. I encourage you to read other threads on here, to see the lengths that many of us have gone to in our quest to "help" these alcoholics we love so much. Be sure to read them all the way through, to see how it turned out.

Good luck to you, we've all been there, and everyone has a different threshold for pain and suffering. Some of us have had to go further than others into the hole before we discover that it stops getting deeper if we just put down our shovel.

Sadly he is using you since he has no where else to go. I know that might sound harsh and hard to take, but from what I gather he just needs you so that he can have a place to stay. I'm not telling you to leave either, I'm just telling you that you are in a bad situation, that will only get worse, since alcoholism is a progressive disease (which I'm sure you know already). My husband is an alcoholic and I do not want to leave him either, so I just "deal" with it, so I understand what you are feeling..but you are (and I am too with my husband..but doing a little better) enabling him. Try to detach yourself from his disease the best that you can. Definitely do not give in and buy him alcohol or do anything that will "help" him. I'm still learning myself, and you will too. We all understand and are all here for you.
Take care of YOU!

wohoo, no reason to be like that. I asked a simple question, if it is wrong to let him drink at home? That what i wanted to know. Did I say I am not inerested in the answer? No, I didn't. I just try to figure out what the right thing is.
Like I said, whats the difference, to get drunk at home or at the bar?
U know, where I am comeing from?

Thanks everybody for the answers.
I know, that a lot of people try to tell me, he is just using me.
I just can't believe that all, because to understand our relationship, u have to know the whole story, and that would be just to much to fill that post.
The reason why I think, he isn't ready to really commit is in my eyes more, because he is really depressed and that he lost his whole family through all that. Mainly because of his drinking. He went 3 times already to rehab and he was sober in the past for quit a bit. But he always falls back. Its not that he needs to drink every day, and he just told me, that he doesn't want to drink at my place. When we met first, he was always drinking at my place, but I had the feeling it was more controlled. He might had 2 or 3 beers in the evening and thats it. And thats why I asked him, if he not wants to drink at my place then at the bar. And yes sure money wise.
Where he gets the money from? Well he is still employed with the Army. So his release will be the end of the month. And I am not buying any Alcohol for him. Thats for sure.

Somebody said, maybe it would be good for him, to be on the street. Well first off all, he was on the street already in his past. Not for long but he was there. He made a good career in the Army afterwards, its not that he is totally lazy, but his drinking was effecting him so much, in the last half year, that he screwed up and going Awol for more then 30 days, is not just a little thing in the army. But he paid the prize, by going to prison.
He has 3 kids, with his ex wife and I don't think, it would help anybody, if he would be on the street.

The question for me is just, what is to much and what to less. Or like I said what is wrong and what is right? I don't want to enable him, but I have to take him the way he is. Like one of u guys said in a post. Yes and I know that. I believe me, I think I am the only one in his life, who acutally takes him the way he is. I could have told him long time ago, to get lost.
But I am not the person who easly gives up on somebody. Especially, when u see Alcoholism as a sickness.

yes, it is a sickness.

But you are not sick with it.

Alcoholism is progressive, it does not abate if untreated.
It is also called a "family disease."
The reson it is called a family disease, is because the loved ones live with the dysfunction and become part of the tapestry of the disease.

He lost his family due to alcoholism. He lost his job and army standing due to alcoholism.

What if only thing, really keeping him from hitting bottom and getting help is the comfort level that you allow for him to exist in, at your house, with your emotions?

If he does not feel any discomfort, is not experiencing any consequences for slowly killing himself and using others, he will not just say, "hey, I am quitting." Becuase t is a disease. Its an addiction.

Even though he lost his job, the respect of the army,and his family's support, he still gets to have a warm place to land, where he gets all the emotional support he needs to continue on drinking from you. And on top of that, he makes you fee like he is settling?
Like he is not sure if he wants to be with you?

This is typical addict behavior.

It is your choice to live with it. Or not.

Well, what I am hearing is that you want to know if we think this is okay. The real question is-Is it okay with you? Something tells me it might not be.......which is why you are here.

I allowed myself to be okay with a lot of behaviors on my XAH's part for a very long time. It was my choice, and I became a shadow of my former self.

If you are looking for a way to help him, the truth is that you really can't. Not like this.

If you truly want to help him, letting him go may be the only way to do that. I let my X hit what should have been his rock bottom.......losing his family, his job and his home. He found himself a new enabler within weeks and continues to drink. I can live with that-it's his choice. But I don't have to LIVE with it on a daily basis, in my home, with my money.

I wish you luck. Some of the replies here may seem harsh, but remember we are all coming from a similar place. LexiCat, inparticular, can seem harsh (lol, love you Lex) but she has experience on both sides......and if you can see passed that, she has a lot of good things to say. Keep posting and reading, and remember it needs to be about what YOU want.
M

I had similar questions....my therapist told me "you are confusing human traits with a very serious pathology"

This is addiction and in addiction the only one who ever "wins" is ALCOHOL... it takes everything from family, friends, the alcoholic and ultimately his or her life. This is just a fact.


And the difference between a bar and your home is that if he prefers to go to a bar you won't have to put up with him, and perhaps with his emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse.

Your home is your sacred place as anvilhead says. Alcohol is a huge precursor(sp?) of domestic violence. When I went to live with an ex Alkie he started to abuse me emotionally and it has taken a long time to recover from it... it was horrible to go to sleep in tears, or afraid he would "lose control" when I was in bed trying to sleep and him outside with his friend drinking until 8 AM... I wouldn't want you or anyone to go through something similar...


Please keep reading/posting, we are here to support each other...

Just curious...why are you feeling (and sounding here) defensive? You sought support from strangers on an internet website, and you've gotten some good responses about the nature of alcoholism, and yet you seem upset?

And...given the forum you are posting onto - would you be surprised to not get a direct response to the question "what is the difference, to get drunk at home or at the bar?" From a bunch of family, friends, spouses, children of alcoholics?

Al-Anon would be a great resource for you, but no one in that program will answer that question, either.

I wish you luck as you navigate these shark-filled waters. Just remember, alcoholics don't have relationships; they take hostages.

This.
I have a friend at work, a recovering alcoholic (RA), 30+ years sober.
When I was still with XABF, he was constantly reminding me of this.

I needed to hear it from him, an RA, because if he's saying that about the type of person he used to be, it must be true.

I stuck around for several months after he told me this.
It was hard to let go, and move on.
But when I was ready, I was ready, and there is no way I am going back to that hellish existence. That's not what I want out of my life.

:hug:
Take your time.
You don't have to decide anything today.
Just remember, the more you learn about it now, the better-informed you'll be when you decide it's time to make a change, and the more likely you'll pick the best solution for you and your life.
:hug:
Good luck.

For me, being focused on my AH and his issues is often like tunnel vision. I can't see or attend to anything else that is going on because dealing with his issues is so consuming for me that it takes everything else over and becomes priority.

The only person that we can control is ourselves.

You said that if he continues drinking like this then he won't have any money to help with your rent. So, assume that happens. Then what? Focus on what you can control and go from there.

Thanks for some post they really helped.
Some don't at all, and I gonna tell why. First of all, English isn't my mother tounge, so some times its really hard to express myself in a foreign language.
Im not a upset or get defensive like some of u guys try to tell me and I am also not confused or crazy. This forum is there to discuess things right?
So I actually was asking a simple question, drinking at the bar or at home???
I can see why it is not so easy to acutally answer that. And I guess there is not a right or wrong.
Somebody said, well he lost friends, family, job etc. But all that didn't happenend from one day to the other. Other say, the best think would be to let him go, the only chance for him to recover. Well yes and no. I don't believe in that though love thing, for one simple reason. Think about interventions, usally family and friends hold an intervention, all people they love the alcoholic, right? Alot of times those are working. Tho if u as a person alcoholic or not, loose everything in ur life, thats kinda frustrating, even for somebody, who doesn't drink. I read a lot of stories about recovering Alcs, and hey did u guys read the same I did. How many Alcoholics where there, they said, if my wife, girlsfriend, husband, boyfriend or whatever loved one, hadn't been there, they didn't know if they ever had changed. I understand and I know, that the process or the willing has to come from the addicted person by himself.
But I don't like how some people here write about and alcoholic. Is it why they are frustrated in their own lifes,they didn't see the Addict to recover?
I mean for centurys grandmas told their kids, they gonna get a bladderinfection just by sitting on a cold stone. Thats wrong for a fact. So who says, tough love is the right thing to do???? Who says, because it works for one person, its gonna work for the other. I read there are so many different typs of alcoholism, like there a leaves on a tree.
I don't believe he can control his drinking completly. But I know from that times, when i didn't know that he is a problem drinker, that he was drinking at my place and he never got that loaded, then when he goes to a bar.
Some of u said, that there rather had their man, in the bar, then at home drinking. Well in the end, i guess there is not difference, because u gonna have to deal with him drunk, one way or the other. If he gets drunk at home or at the bar. The result he is drunk.
Somebody said, deal with it or not. Yes, I do deal with it, thats why i tried this forum, and I am a little bit disappointed the way people replay, but thats the way discuession s are. Its ok.

What helpes me alot to concentrate more on myself and don't have to try to resuce him. But i just can not be so cold hearted. Even if I think, that there a people where tough love maybe worked.

But sometimes u just have to see thinks from alot of different sides. Maybe there is just not a right and wrong! Guess i didn't asked the question right.
Thanks everybody.

Pardon me, but it appears that you understand the language well enough to know exactly what's being written here, you would just rather ignore it.

Taken from the Buddhist philosophy, maybe there isn't a 'right and wrong' but you never mentioned you were a Buddhist, so that particular belief doesn't apply to you.

You're helping this gentleman drink himself to death. Almost the same as going out and buying a gun and bullets for him.

Imo, that is wrong. Period.

Hope this helps.

As an alcoholic, I can only assure you of one thing.

If (and that is a big IF), he could control it, he would. No one wants to go to jail, lose their family, their job, etc. IF they could control it. The FACT is alcoholics cannot control their drinking. Wether it be over a few days, weeks, months or years. This disease is progressive, nothing stops it but sobriety.

Right or wrong..well., that is for you to decide. I only know that for this alcoholic, it took knowing that my husband was about to kick me out of the house, to start a solid program of recovery. I attend meetings, I WORK at staying sober. Staying at home, not working and drinking will only help an alcoholic into the grave.

Not pretty....but, nothing about this life threatening disease is. Tough love...well, I would say loving an alcoholic is pretty tough.

Wishing you the best on your journey...my advice, get out and save yourself while you can..there, I said it.

Well I didn't say I can't understand and read, I said its hard to express myself. Holy cow lol
So u gonna say, everybody who stays with an Alcoholic is a murder???
I really thought that forum is to help each other out, and exchange thoughts.
I might just delete my profile. I didnt ignore anything what is said here, if u read my post. I try to figure thinks out.

Thank u for that post. But ur husband didn't leave u because u got help, right. I appricate ur concern. And yes i believe he can't controll it. But to clear one thing, he went to Military jail because he went awol. So its not that he killed somebody, drove drunk or something else. Awol is a big issue in the Army. Not an excause, just I don't want that everybody thinks he is an jerk or so. He is actually a good man, with a big issue.

We are sick people trying to get well, not bad people. No one said he was bad, he just has a problem.

But, getting well requires action. What action is he taking? Does he even want to get well? He has been to rehab three times, he knows the drill, he just doesn't want to do the work, the action required. It is that simple. I know this from experience., and from many other alcoholics experience. None of us is "more special" then the other, alcoholics pretty much follow pattern and practice, it is just the nature of this disease.

If you can live with him drinking, then the location of where he drinks doesn't matter.Only you can decide if you want to live the way you are living with him.

The wreckage of his drinking career is laying out in front of you. If you choose to put rose colored glasses on thinking that changes anything, that is your choice.

I have just shared with you what I, and many other alcoholics know, each bottom is different. If jail wasn't his bottom, then what is?

If he had cancer, would you sit by why he didn't get treatment?

He suffers from alcoholism...he needs a program of recovery as his treatment.

It's a little more than an issue.

It's a progressive, fatal disease.

You may be the only thing standing between him and recovery. I say may, he may not have a bottom. You could give him the boot and he may keep on drinking, some people do.

Unless you believe that you have some control over his alcoholism, letting him live with you while he drinks himself to death would be what? Exactly?

Ok, who says all alcoholics drink themself to death? Why u think I am the person who stays in between his recovery?

I know this isn't the heart of the matter but this "good man" issue is a huge trigger for me and I just had to say something.

My mil has, for years, excused the abusive, violent, intolerable behavior of her AH (my AH's father) by saying "but he's a good man". In recent years she's said the same to me about my own AH (her son). This "good man" line seems to me to be an excuse for the alcoholism and accompanying behaviors.

Whether someone is good, bad or indifferent really has nothing at all to do with their alcoholism and the behaviors that surround it. And frankly, the way that many alcoholics behave is not in line with someone who is a "good" person. Does saying he is a "good man" make it easier to accept the unacceptable I wonder?

For me, hearing the "he's a good man" in the context of talking about someone's alcoholism-- it just makes my blood boil.

No one is going to care whether he was believed to be a good man or not. What matters is how he lives his life and how he treats others. And it seems to me that there aren't too many alcoholics capable of doing a decent or good job or living life well and treating others well when they aren't in recovery.

Just my two cents.

I honestly am not sure what we are arguing about. You posted here supposedly because you wanted to know what we thought about your situation. We told you. We explained why we said what we did.

It is completely up to you whether you stay with this man, leave him, decide to stay with boundaries that will keep you from losing your own sanity to this disease, or simply continue as you have been. We are sharing our common experience here.

However, don't expect us to tell you everything will be just fine if you love him enough and stand by him without changing anything in yourself or in your relationship. It won't be. I can virtually guarantee it.