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-   -   What is right, what is wrong? (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/224351-what-right-what-wrong.html)

sprman24 04-10-2011 05:29 AM

What is right, what is wrong?
 
Hey again,

well a few month ago, i wrote here about my boyfriend who has a huge Problem with alcohol.
A lot of thinks happenend, since my last post.
Funny thing, I never thought that is gonna happen. He got released out of the Army. The last two month were really tuff. He went Awol again in feb. and that was the beginning of bad things happening. I had the MP's a few times at my place looking for him and so on. Wasn't really fun. Anyways, one night, he came home so drunk, and was so depressed of everything in his life and started talking about killing himself again. Well I did what I never thought i will do, and called the MP. I knew at that time he didn't show up again for work. So it was quit the comotion, the police was here and then the MP's came, handcuffed him and took him away. He was in jail for a few days, then he had his trial and they gave him 21 days jail time in Edmonton. He called me after his trial, and told me those news, he asked me, if i please wouldn't date anybody else while he is gone and that he loves me. By that time he didnt had a drink for almost a week. Anyways he spend his 21 days in jail, came back with knowing his career is done as a soldier. He said its ok with him, its kinda even a relief.
Well in the end he was sober for a month, i had my hopes up high. I thought jail time, was his hitting rock bottom. Well no, i was wrong. 2 days later, after he came home, he started drinking again. He has no where to go, and we try to move in together. But since he is back from jail, he is not motivated at all anymore. Nothing is getting done. He not even knows if he wants to be with me anymore or not, he knows he needs me, because if i wouldn't give him a place to life he would be homeless. He always says, i put to much pressure on him. Do I?
Well he knows he isn't aloud to drink at my place and he doesn't, he rather goes out spend 100$ dollars at a bar, which is always the same one and comes home drunk. I told him, if he wants to life with me, it might be better, to have a few beers at my place, then at the bar, because it would be cheaper, because he has to pay me rent and so on as well. But if he keeps drinking the way he does, their will be no money left for rent.
He looked at me, like i would be crazy. Am I? I just try to do the right thing.
But he said, no he won't drink at my place. Next day he went out again, drinking. I mean he isn't going out every day drinking anymore, but still a few times a week.
And I just don't know what to say or do. I told him, I dont care anymore, about his drinking. If he wants to drink, drink. I'm not in the mood to fight all the time. talking doesn't help. but what would help?

Oh life is so complicated

Pelican 04-10-2011 07:34 AM

This is a link to a post that contains steps to take when dealing with a loved ones addiction. It helped me, I hope it helps you too:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

LexieCat 04-10-2011 08:23 AM


I told him, if he wants to life with me, it might be better, to have a few beers at my place, then at the bar, because it would be cheaper, because he has to pay me rent and so on as well. But if he keeps drinking the way he does, their will be no money left for rent.
He looked at me, like i would be crazy. Am I? I just try to do the right thing.
Well, let's see. You want to encourage the guy to drink at home instead of at a bar so he can afford to live with you and share the rent. Sounds a little crazy to me.

As long as he drinks, and you allow him to live with you, you are buying trouble for yourself. He hasn't been responsible while drinking up to now--what makes you think he is suddenly going to care about paying the rent or do anything to hold up his end of any relationship as long as he continues to drink?

barb dwyer 04-10-2011 10:23 AM

welcome back and please read the two preceding posts again.

Buffalo66 04-10-2011 11:19 AM

He needs you to continue allowing him to drink.

He has stated that he does not know if he wants to be with you, but is more than happy to use your home as a hotel.

He is drinking outside the home. You have offered for him to drink inside the home.

Please read around the forum, and start listing out what you want.
It is hard to tell from your post.

Enabling is a word that means that we create an environment that makes it easier for addicts to continue on in ther addiction.

This is actually NOT helping them.

And that does not even begin to address the fact that you are being terribly used and mistreated.

Is this what you want for yourself?
What would a healthy relationship look like to you?

Please keep posting and especially reading here in the forum!

sprman24 04-10-2011 12:09 PM

Well, I don't know what to say.
He doesn't want to stop drinking. So if he doesn't want to, it doesn't make sence to always make terror about his drinking. If he drinks at the bar or at my place, what difference is there? In my eyes none. I have to deal with him drunk, one way or the other.
And drinking at home would be cheaper. Why I would think that, if he wouldn't life with me, he would be on the street. Does that help him? I don't think so.
I read tons of stuff about Alcohlisim, and all what i always is, get away from him. Its frustrating. I lost a lot of friends of him, and every time i try to get help for me, I just get, leave him.
I don't want to leave him, I love him and ya I would like that we had a great realtionship, but we don't because he drinks. Ah its so frustrating. Guess nobody understands me, ever.

Buffalo66 04-10-2011 12:18 PM

Sprman

It is not a matter of not understanding.

This forum is the right place for you, because, truly, we do understand.
Many of us have been right where you are.

I think what is being put forth to you is a question:

Are you happy?
Is your life what you want it to be?
Is being with him worth not having the two things above?

If his alcoholism is the only thing that is causing problems in the relationship, but it is a major problem, and he DOES NOT WANT TO STOP...

then, I think the people in your life are posing the only real questions for you.
You cannot control him,
You cannot cure him,
You did not cause his addiction...

But you are not living a full life.
Enough that you have come here, to seek advice and help.

Is it worth it?

And if the answer to that question for you is yes, then most folks here will suggest you go to AL-anon to gain tools for coping with a loved ones alcoholism.

Because there are many many people here who still live with/deal with/love an active alcoholic.

Everyone is different,

But for me, losing the respect of friends and family, and even actually losing friends

this was somewhat of a red flag for me, back then.
I realized that I was willing to ematiate my own life, my own needs, my own self worth in order to have the love of a man who was unable to properly love and care for me, LET ALONE HIMSELF>

Please keep posting

LexieCat 04-10-2011 01:43 PM

Did I say you should leave him?

You asked whether what you were proposing sounded crazy (telling him to drink at home to save money so you can split the rent). I'm not quite sure why you asked if you weren't interested in the answer.

Where is he getting the money to drink at the bar?

He's told you he isn't even sure he wants to be with you, but he "needs" you because you are giving him a place to live. He is all but spelling it out: "I would like to continue to USE you, as long as you don't make it too uncomfortable for me."

We ALL understand, believe me. We have all done the same kinds of things trying to "save" someone who has no interest in being "saved." And, in the process, we lost a whole lot of ourselves.

You don't have to leave him. But you don't have to take him in to live with you, either.

Being on the street MIGHT help him.

StarCat 04-10-2011 08:30 PM

In my relationship with my XABF (ex-alcoholic boyfriend), I provided him a place to stay, money to bail him out when he overspent, and a scapegoat to blame when he kept drinking. He started having health problems from the alcohol, and as a result, he'd drink even more. It was an endless cycle, and runaway train, until I felt like my entire life was about working, coming home, doing chores around the apartment, and going to bed. He made twice as much as I did, and did absolutely nothing but spend all that plus my money, too.

Mine did not drink at bars, but always around the house. I used to wish he would got to a bar, so at least I've have some time and space to myself, because I was thoroughly miserable and did not feel I had time to even think.

The more I did for him, the less he did for himself, until his life consisted of reading the paper, and barking orders at me for things he wanted me to do around the apartment, and all the while he complained that I didn't help him enough, and that he needed a woman who would just do everything so he didn't even have to ask for anything.

It was a miserable existence.
I was a shadow, fading away, constantly depressed.
That's no way to live.


sprman24,
Nobody here will tell you what to do, all we can do is share our own experiences.
I would ask, what are you getting out of this relationship?
And what do you expect out of a relationship?

He is the person that he is, and you have to accept the whole package, not just the bits you like. He is who he is, and it is unfair to him to expect anything other than that from him.

What do you want?
And start from there.

kittykitty 04-10-2011 11:23 PM

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

He's going to keep doing what he is doing, which is walking all over you, as long as you let him. It's your decision how long it will last. I encourage you to read other threads on here, to see the lengths that many of us have gone to in our quest to "help" these alcoholics we love so much. Be sure to read them all the way through, to see how it turned out.

Good luck to you, we've all been there, and everyone has a different threshold for pain and suffering. Some of us have had to go further than others into the hole before we discover that it stops getting deeper if we just put down our shovel.

japabp2000 04-11-2011 01:16 AM

Sadly he is using you since he has no where else to go. I know that might sound harsh and hard to take, but from what I gather he just needs you so that he can have a place to stay. I'm not telling you to leave either, I'm just telling you that you are in a bad situation, that will only get worse, since alcoholism is a progressive disease (which I'm sure you know already). My husband is an alcoholic and I do not want to leave him either, so I just "deal" with it, so I understand what you are feeling..but you are (and I am too with my husband..but doing a little better) enabling him. Try to detach yourself from his disease the best that you can. Definitely do not give in and buy him alcohol or do anything that will "help" him. I'm still learning myself, and you will too. We all understand and are all here for you.
Take care of YOU!

sprman24 04-11-2011 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 2930092)
Did I say you should leave him?

You asked whether what you were proposing sounded crazy (telling him to drink at home to save money so you can split the rent). I'm not quite sure why you asked if you weren't interested in the answer.

Where is he getting the money to drink at the bar?

Being on the street MIGHT help him.

wohoo, no reason to be like that. I asked a simple question, if it is wrong to let him drink at home? That what i wanted to know. Did I say I am not inerested in the answer? No, I didn't. I just try to figure out what the right thing is.
Like I said, whats the difference, to get drunk at home or at the bar?
U know, where I am comeing from?

sprman24 04-11-2011 09:31 AM

Thanks everybody for the answers.
I know, that a lot of people try to tell me, he is just using me.
I just can't believe that all, because to understand our relationship, u have to know the whole story, and that would be just to much to fill that post.
The reason why I think, he isn't ready to really commit is in my eyes more, because he is really depressed and that he lost his whole family through all that. Mainly because of his drinking. He went 3 times already to rehab and he was sober in the past for quit a bit. But he always falls back. Its not that he needs to drink every day, and he just told me, that he doesn't want to drink at my place. When we met first, he was always drinking at my place, but I had the feeling it was more controlled. He might had 2 or 3 beers in the evening and thats it. And thats why I asked him, if he not wants to drink at my place then at the bar. And yes sure money wise.
Where he gets the money from? Well he is still employed with the Army. So his release will be the end of the month. And I am not buying any Alcohol for him. Thats for sure.

Somebody said, maybe it would be good for him, to be on the street. Well first off all, he was on the street already in his past. Not for long but he was there. He made a good career in the Army afterwards, its not that he is totally lazy, but his drinking was effecting him so much, in the last half year, that he screwed up and going Awol for more then 30 days, is not just a little thing in the army. But he paid the prize, by going to prison.
He has 3 kids, with his ex wife and I don't think, it would help anybody, if he would be on the street.

The question for me is just, what is to much and what to less. Or like I said what is wrong and what is right? I don't want to enable him, but I have to take him the way he is. Like one of u guys said in a post. Yes and I know that. I believe me, I think I am the only one in his life, who acutally takes him the way he is. I could have told him long time ago, to get lost.
But I am not the person who easly gives up on somebody. Especially, when u see Alcoholism as a sickness.

Buffalo66 04-11-2011 09:43 AM

yes, it is a sickness.

But you are not sick with it.

Alcoholism is progressive, it does not abate if untreated.
It is also called a "family disease."
The reson it is called a family disease, is because the loved ones live with the dysfunction and become part of the tapestry of the disease.

He lost his family due to alcoholism. He lost his job and army standing due to alcoholism.

What if only thing, really keeping him from hitting bottom and getting help is the comfort level that you allow for him to exist in, at your house, with your emotions?

If he does not feel any discomfort, is not experiencing any consequences for slowly killing himself and using others, he will not just say, "hey, I am quitting." Becuase t is a disease. Its an addiction.

Even though he lost his job, the respect of the army,and his family's support, he still gets to have a warm place to land, where he gets all the emotional support he needs to continue on drinking from you. And on top of that, he makes you fee like he is settling?
Like he is not sure if he wants to be with you?

This is typical addict behavior.

It is your choice to live with it. Or not.

MyBetterWorld 04-11-2011 11:25 AM

Well, what I am hearing is that you want to know if we think this is okay. The real question is-Is it okay with you? Something tells me it might not be.......which is why you are here.

I allowed myself to be okay with a lot of behaviors on my XAH's part for a very long time. It was my choice, and I became a shadow of my former self.

If you are looking for a way to help him, the truth is that you really can't. Not like this.

If you truly want to help him, letting him go may be the only way to do that. I let my X hit what should have been his rock bottom.......losing his family, his job and his home. He found himself a new enabler within weeks and continues to drink. I can live with that-it's his choice. But I don't have to LIVE with it on a daily basis, in my home, with my money.

I wish you luck. Some of the replies here may seem harsh, but remember we are all coming from a similar place. LexiCat, inparticular, can seem harsh (lol, love you Lex) but she has experience on both sides......and if you can see passed that, she has a lot of good things to say. Keep posting and reading, and remember it needs to be about what YOU want.
M

TakingCharge999 04-11-2011 05:49 PM

I had similar questions....my therapist told me "you are confusing human traits with a very serious pathology"

This is addiction and in addiction the only one who ever "wins" is ALCOHOL... it takes everything from family, friends, the alcoholic and ultimately his or her life. This is just a fact.


And the difference between a bar and your home is that if he prefers to go to a bar you won't have to put up with him, and perhaps with his emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse.

Your home is your sacred place as anvilhead says. Alcohol is a huge precursor(sp?) of domestic violence. When I went to live with an ex Alkie he started to abuse me emotionally and it has taken a long time to recover from it... it was horrible to go to sleep in tears, or afraid he would "lose control" when I was in bed trying to sleep and him outside with his friend drinking until 8 AM... I wouldn't want you or anyone to go through something similar...


Please keep reading/posting, we are here to support each other...

Tuffgirl 04-11-2011 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by sprman24 (Post 2931024)
wohoo, no reason to be like that. I asked a simple question, if it is wrong to let him drink at home? That what i wanted to know. Did I say I am not inerested in the answer? No, I didn't. I just try to figure out what the right thing is.
Like I said, whats the difference, to get drunk at home or at the bar?
U know, where I am comeing from?

Just curious...why are you feeling (and sounding here) defensive? You sought support from strangers on an internet website, and you've gotten some good responses about the nature of alcoholism, and yet you seem upset?

And...given the forum you are posting onto - would you be surprised to not get a direct response to the question "what is the difference, to get drunk at home or at the bar?" From a bunch of family, friends, spouses, children of alcoholics?

Al-Anon would be a great resource for you, but no one in that program will answer that question, either.

I wish you luck as you navigate these shark-filled waters. Just remember, alcoholics don't have relationships; they take hostages.

StarCat 04-11-2011 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by Tuffgirl (Post 2931599)
alcoholics don't have relationships; they take hostages.

This.
I have a friend at work, a recovering alcoholic (RA), 30+ years sober.
When I was still with XABF, he was constantly reminding me of this.

I needed to hear it from him, an RA, because if he's saying that about the type of person he used to be, it must be true.

I stuck around for several months after he told me this.
It was hard to let go, and move on.
But when I was ready, I was ready, and there is no way I am going back to that hellish existence. That's not what I want out of my life.

:hug:
Take your time.
You don't have to decide anything today.
Just remember, the more you learn about it now, the better-informed you'll be when you decide it's time to make a change, and the more likely you'll pick the best solution for you and your life.
:hug:
Good luck.

marie678 04-11-2011 08:06 PM

For me, being focused on my AH and his issues is often like tunnel vision. I can't see or attend to anything else that is going on because dealing with his issues is so consuming for me that it takes everything else over and becomes priority.

The only person that we can control is ourselves.

You said that if he continues drinking like this then he won't have any money to help with your rent. So, assume that happens. Then what? Focus on what you can control and go from there.


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