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Old 04-13-2011, 02:11 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
But sometimes u just have to see thinks from alot of different sides. Maybe there is just not a right and wrong! Guess i didn't asked the question right.
Thanks everybody.
Pardon me, but it appears that you understand the language well enough to know exactly what's being written here, you would just rather ignore it.

Taken from the Buddhist philosophy, maybe there isn't a 'right and wrong' but you never mentioned you were a Buddhist, so that particular belief doesn't apply to you.

You're helping this gentleman drink himself to death. Almost the same as going out and buying a gun and bullets for him.

Imo, that is wrong. Period.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:29 PM
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As an alcoholic, I can only assure you of one thing.

If (and that is a big IF), he could control it, he would. No one wants to go to jail, lose their family, their job, etc. IF they could control it. The FACT is alcoholics cannot control their drinking. Wether it be over a few days, weeks, months or years. This disease is progressive, nothing stops it but sobriety.

Right or wrong..well., that is for you to decide. I only know that for this alcoholic, it took knowing that my husband was about to kick me out of the house, to start a solid program of recovery. I attend meetings, I WORK at staying sober. Staying at home, not working and drinking will only help an alcoholic into the grave.

Not pretty....but, nothing about this life threatening disease is. Tough love...well, I would say loving an alcoholic is pretty tough.

Wishing you the best on your journey...my advice, get out and save yourself while you can..there, I said it.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sailorjohn View Post
Pardon me, but it appears that you understand the language well enough to know exactly what's being written here, you would just rather ignore it.

Taken from the Buddhist philosophy, maybe there isn't a 'right and wrong' but you never mentioned you were a Buddhist, so that particular belief doesn't apply to you.

You're helping this gentleman drink himself to death. Almost the same as going out and buying a gun and bullets for him.

Imo, that is wrong. Period.

Hope this helps.
Well I didn't say I can't understand and read, I said its hard to express myself. Holy cow lol
So u gonna say, everybody who stays with an Alcoholic is a murder???
I really thought that forum is to help each other out, and exchange thoughts.
I might just delete my profile. I didnt ignore anything what is said here, if u read my post. I try to figure thinks out.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ANEWAUGUST View Post
As an alcoholic, I can only assure you of one thing.

If (and that is a big IF), he could control it, he would. No one wants to go to jail, lose their family, their job, etc. IF they could control it. The FACT is alcoholics cannot control their drinking. Wether it be over a few days, weeks, months or years. This disease is progressive, nothing stops it but sobriety.

Right or wrong..well., that is for you to decide. I only know that for this alcoholic, it took knowing that my husband was about to kick me out of the house, to start a solid program of recovery. I attend meetings, I WORK at staying sober. Staying at home, not working and drinking will only help an alcoholic into the grave.

Not pretty....but, nothing about this life threatening disease is. Tough love...well, I would say loving an alcoholic is pretty tough.

Wishing you the best on your journey...my advice, get out and save yourself while you can..there, I said it.
Thank u for that post. But ur husband didn't leave u because u got help, right. I appricate ur concern. And yes i believe he can't controll it. But to clear one thing, he went to Military jail because he went awol. So its not that he killed somebody, drove drunk or something else. Awol is a big issue in the Army. Not an excause, just I don't want that everybody thinks he is an jerk or so. He is actually a good man, with a big issue.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:53 PM
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We are sick people trying to get well, not bad people. No one said he was bad, he just has a problem.

But, getting well requires action. What action is he taking? Does he even want to get well? He has been to rehab three times, he knows the drill, he just doesn't want to do the work, the action required. It is that simple. I know this from experience., and from many other alcoholics experience. None of us is "more special" then the other, alcoholics pretty much follow pattern and practice, it is just the nature of this disease.

If you can live with him drinking, then the location of where he drinks doesn't matter.Only you can decide if you want to live the way you are living with him.

The wreckage of his drinking career is laying out in front of you. If you choose to put rose colored glasses on thinking that changes anything, that is your choice.

I have just shared with you what I, and many other alcoholics know, each bottom is different. If jail wasn't his bottom, then what is?

If he had cancer, would you sit by why he didn't get treatment?

He suffers from alcoholism...he needs a program of recovery as his treatment.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
He is actually a good man, with a big issue.
It's a little more than an issue.

It's a progressive, fatal disease.

You may be the only thing standing between him and recovery. I say may, he may not have a bottom. You could give him the boot and he may keep on drinking, some people do.

Unless you believe that you have some control over his alcoholism, letting him live with you while he drinks himself to death would be what? Exactly?
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:57 PM
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Ok, who says all alcoholics drink themself to death? Why u think I am the person who stays in between his recovery?
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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Not an excause, just I don't want that everybody thinks he is an jerk or so. He is actually a good man, with a big issue.
I know this isn't the heart of the matter but this "good man" issue is a huge trigger for me and I just had to say something.

My mil has, for years, excused the abusive, violent, intolerable behavior of her AH (my AH's father) by saying "but he's a good man". In recent years she's said the same to me about my own AH (her son). This "good man" line seems to me to be an excuse for the alcoholism and accompanying behaviors.

Whether someone is good, bad or indifferent really has nothing at all to do with their alcoholism and the behaviors that surround it. And frankly, the way that many alcoholics behave is not in line with someone who is a "good" person. Does saying he is a "good man" make it easier to accept the unacceptable I wonder?

For me, hearing the "he's a good man" in the context of talking about someone's alcoholism-- it just makes my blood boil.

No one is going to care whether he was believed to be a good man or not. What matters is how he lives his life and how he treats others. And it seems to me that there aren't too many alcoholics capable of doing a decent or good job or living life well and treating others well when they aren't in recovery.

Just my two cents.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:54 PM
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I honestly am not sure what we are arguing about. You posted here supposedly because you wanted to know what we thought about your situation. We told you. We explained why we said what we did.

It is completely up to you whether you stay with this man, leave him, decide to stay with boundaries that will keep you from losing your own sanity to this disease, or simply continue as you have been. We are sharing our common experience here.

However, don't expect us to tell you everything will be just fine if you love him enough and stand by him without changing anything in yourself or in your relationship. It won't be. I can virtually guarantee it.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:01 PM
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No one says you are keeping him from his recovery.

However, he has a place to stay, can still drink, has you, what it is the motivation for his recovery...why does he have to change, why does he have to stop drinking? The bigger question is...does he want to stop drinking?

Up to you what boundaries you want to put in place, if any.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:07 PM
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I sincerely hope that you continue to come to this site. Please don't delete your profile.

There is support here, and much help. There are gonna be a few people who you find abrasive, just ignore them. There are gonna be a few who really speak to you - to your heart.

Keep reading, post, and really liten to what is written on here.
And get the book Codependent No More. Read the definition and discover that there is a label for you....your "condition". Just like most of us on this forum.

My opinion: it is not right to "allow" him to drink at home.

Nor is it right for him to drink at the bar.
Drinking is simply not right for this man no matter how you slice it.

Peace...
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
Ok, who says all alcoholics drink themself to death? Why u think I am the person who stays in between his recovery?
My recovering alcoholic friend has a saying.
"For an alcoholic, there's one of three choices. We'll either end up in AA, in jail, or dead."
Alcoholism is a time bomb. You never know when it's going to be too late.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:15 PM
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Hi Sprmn24,

You are important part of your relationship, and you should be treated with respect. You have given your love, your time, and your home to this man. Basically you have given your life to him, and you are losing yourself in the process.

It is very admirable that you want to help him and this shows that you are a kind person. However, your kindness is not being appreciated. You have a right to say no to drinking outside the home and even inside the home, it is your place.

It may be the hardest thing you have to do, because you love him so much, but you cannot go on living like this, it is hurting both of you. You need to take care of yourself first, your feelings are important. Don't let him take them for granted. Only you know in your heart and mind what you need to do, now stay strong and take the first step.

Good luck to you,
Stacy
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
Ok, who says all alcoholics drink themself to death? Why u think I am the person who stays in between his recovery?
All non-recovering alcoholics do eventually drink themselves to early graves, some are much earlier than others.

If you want to see what that looks like, you can probably manage it. End stage alcoholism is pretty ugly.

And I wrote 'may'. Just our collective experience here. By minimizing the natural consequences of his drinking, you are possibly preventing him from hitting a 'real' bottom. I write 'real' because many alcoholics would have hit a bottom simply by experiencing the negative consequences he already has.

He might not have a bottom, he might have a bottom, who knows?

Really wish you well with this, but like most of the others have already mentioned, your life is going to get a lot worse before it improves. As will his.

Hopefully, you'll find your bottom quickly.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:29 AM
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Thanks for all those posts.
And yes there is nothing to argue about. And I didn't start writing to argue just to discuess a few things and sure I was a bit disapointed the way some things where said. But that doesn't matter, since everybody has their on opinion and experience.
If he wants to quit or not, its hard to say. Right now, I would say no. But i know that he thinks about it. He even goes to Addiction Counselling.
I set my boundaries a long time ago. Before I knew he had a problem with drinking, I did much more for him, then I do now. I helped him out with money, with Alcohol, picked him up in the middle of the night, when he was somewhere drunk. I'm not doing it anymore. He knows that that those are my rules. He doesn't get any money from me, I am not going out with him drinking, I am not picking him up and I certantly not buying him any booze. He said even to me, he doesn't want to drink at my place. So no drinking at my place. I mean I set that boundarie long time ago, as well. But like I said, he thought it is maybe an idea. Well not anymore. Since I had all the posts here. Doesn't matter where he gets drunk. Since he is back from military jail, he went 3 times out drinking in 2 weeks. So i think he at least tries to cut back.
Maybe some people here had the feeling, I am stupid or so, I am not. I mean I know, that I have to take care of myself and stuff. I decieded for myself to stay with him and hope he is getting better. I still have a big dream and I believe in him, that he can quit again, since he was sober for years. The question for me is more, why is he relapsing so many times and why are all those rehabs he did, fail?

Ya and sailorjohn, that I gonna find my bottom soon? Hm I don't know. I am a pretty ruff character and would say a quit strong person. I grew up with foster parents, my real mom was an Alcoholic and Drug addict, and she was using, even when she was pragnent with me. She died when I was 12 years old. I came to Canada when I was 29, and I managed to live here all by myself alone and with no family. So I think i went through alot in my short life and I never give up so easy, when I see there is still a spark i can hold on to.

But thanks to everybody here. I'm not trying to upset anybody, with the way I am writing, i always try to figure things out.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:23 PM
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The rehabs didn't fail, he did. Rehabs only give the A tools, however, the A has to USE those tools 24/7.

I took my alcoholism to the MAX and I did die in the ER, several times, and the last time they were putting the TOD (Time Of Death) on my chart when my heart started on it's own.

I ended up in AA as that was really the only game in town back then, where I was given 'tools' and taught how to use them. Then it was UP TO ME to use them, and to not drink, One Day At A Time.

With what you have shared, it just does not sound like he is any where near ready to 'try' again and go for broke for recovery. See all the 'programs' AA, SMART, Rehabs, etc are for those that want it, not those that need it.

You say you have dreams about what could be down the road. Instead I believe you have to look within yourself and decide if you can see yourself with him 5 or 10 years down the road, if he is just as he is now, only with the progression of alcoholism add extended abdomen and jaundiced eyes and skinny legs and arms, possibly vomiting blood, and a very physically sick individual?

I don't want to shatter your dreams, but most of us here, have been where you are now. Many of us 'stayed' much longer than we should have, but we have been there. It is not a pretty picture.

J M H O based on my personal experience from many years in AA and almost as many in AlAnon.

I wish you the best.

Love and hugs,
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
The question for me is more, why is he relapsing so many times and why are all those rehabs he did, fail?
you have made a decision that many of us here have made.

The answer to the above question is both complex and simple:

he is relapsing because he wishes to drink.

he is relapsing because he has a progressive bear of a condition, and the longer he's at it the harder it is to kick, and because he doesn't have compelling enough reason to quit.

and, btw, in my opinion, when someone doesnt' drink for a week it's not a relapse. when someone has a disease that is incurable but goes into remission, such as cancer or alcoholism, and they experience a time of good health, THEN the disease comes back with a vengence, THAT'S a relapse.

still keep comin here. i think you're gonna need us...
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
I am a pretty ruff character and would say a quit strong person. I grew up with foster parents, my real mom was an Alcoholic and Drug addict, and she was using, even when she was pragnent with me. She died when I was 12 years old. I came to Canada when I was 29, and I managed to live here all by myself alone and with no family.
This explains alot.
I strongly encourage you to find an Alanon Group, whether you stay with this man or not. Growing up the child of an Alcoholic, even if only indirectly, will affect you for the rest of your life. It's what has gotten you into the situation you are in right now, believe me.

I know you think that your relationship with him is different, it is special, and you can save it and him. I think it is safe to say that each and every one of us who have experience with an alcoholic BF, GF, husband or wife, felt the same way when we first logged on here. Find someone with a few hundred posts under their name, and go back to their first thread. Read their story from start to finish. Read what brought them here, how it was for them. Then read what happened, and how it is now, and see how well we all did with our A's we were "meant to be with". See how successful we were at "fixing them". See how much of our time, energy, love, and life we gave them, and what we got in return. You have the chance to learn from those of us who have genuinely been where you are right now. It took me over a year, but I finally learned, and I couldn't be happier.

Don't worry about him, please get help for you.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:37 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by coffeedrinker View Post

and, btw, in my opinion, when someone doesnt' drink for a week it's not a relapse. when someone has a disease that is incurable but goes into remission, such as cancer or alcoholism, and they experience a time of good health, THEN the disease comes back with a vengence, THAT'S a relapse.

still keep comin here. i think you're gonna need us...
Yes, that my opinion as well. After each rehab he was sober for a few years.
Usally he always started drinking because something happened in his life, which is not an excause in my eyes, but still.

We talked yesterday again about his drinking and he said, he doesn't wanna go to rehab, because they say all the time the same and he knows it all.
He doesn't want to go AA, because it wouldn't help him, to listen to other people stories. Blah Blah Blah, i thought. He says he wants to quit by himself.
Is that possible? I don't think it wouldn't work. But I wonder what kinda programms are out there, which actually not just deal with the drinking Problem. I think there must be a programm out there, which deals with those depressions too.

Thanks to everybody, to replay. Sometimes it just helps me, to write down what I think and that gives me some answers too.

I acutally wanna go to an Al Anon meeting here in the region, but I am just to scared. I am a little shy, when it comes to meet new people in a group.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sprman24 View Post
He says he wants to quit by himself.
Is that possible?
well, he has demonstrated that it is NOT possible, for him.

maybe take a giant step back and see from a (large) distance what he does do for his next recovery period. if it seems to be working, re-enter his life, if it doesn't seem to be, you are already gone.

and in a lot less pain.
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