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HELP .... Need strength

Old 03-30-2011, 08:06 AM
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HELP .... Need strength

AH and I have had several one sided conversations about seperation. I know its for the best, I know it in my heart that my children are being affected by the verbal abuse they hear, the violent outbursts, and the over all atmosphere in my home. I made it very clear that once he started his job and got his first check he was to get out. Sooooooooooooooo

Last night we had another chat, but I am so confused I think I might have missed a part of the conversation.

Him "I don't know why you hate me? We have built this life together for 15 years, how can we just walk away I feel like we failed"
Me "I love you, I never said I hated you. BUT I need to think about the kids and what they are learning from our relationship"
Him "I agree"
Me "I am scared to be with you, I refuse to live scared"
Him "I don't like you being scared of me, I would never want to hurt you"
Him "I can't imagine ever being with anyone else, I only want to be with you!"
Me "Is that really what you are thinking about? My replacement ?"
Him "No, I just mean I don't want us to end... I want to grow old together and watch our kids grow up together"
Me "We will both be there for the kids, we just can't be there as a couple"
Him "I just want to hold you, can't we still love each other"
Me "This is not easy for me, Of course I want to grab ahold of you BUT I know that will make this more painful"
Me: "I can not keep fighting with you, Its killing me...."
Him "i know we need to stop fighting!"
Me: "I would love to just have a happy family with you, but how long am I expected to wait for that to happen?"
Him: "I know you have put up with alot, and so have I. I have forgiven you!"

LATER ...
Him "Are you coming to bed"
Me "I am going to stay on the couch"
Him "why should you be uncomfortable sleeping on the couch?"
Me (thinking, no kidding why should I be on the couch! He should be on the Couch!) Whatever I am exhausted off to BED
Morning.... as I was getting in the shower.....
Him: "I can't wait to make love to you tonight"
Me: "Are you kidding? I didn't know we were anywhere near that point AGAIN"
Him: "well you just got naked infront of me!"
Me: "Actually I was getting into the shower and the door was closed! Maybe I should have locked it"

As I left for work:
Him: You look great, I love you!

Here I am wondering what the heck happened yesterday ? He is acting like nothing happened over the weekend.... like he did not try to break down the door, like he did not smash my cell phone (AGAIN)? I am so confused.

I am recalling the Abuser Thread I had read, the wolf in sheeps clothing is knocking at my door.....
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:18 AM
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I don't know him and I don't really know the history, but it sounds like the difference in the way men and women communicate, to some extent. He is trying to be conciliatory. I am not saying that you shouldn't leave him, but I don't see this as a particularly abusive or alcoholic-type interaction.

I think this sounds like typical male "I want to make up and I love you and I can show you by having sex with you" cluelessness.

jmo. He may be a raging abusive A most of the time, for all I know. I just don't find this all that strange.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:24 AM
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LMBO - no he was not raging A during these conversations.

I am just looking for strenth to ignore his plea for forgiveness once again.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by StrongEnuf View Post
LMBO - no he was not raging A during these conversations.

I am just looking for strenth to ignore his plea for forgiveness once again.
hey, if he has issues that he refuses to address and they are affecting your marriage and he wants to gloss over them by seducing you, then you are exactly right. I am totally with you.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:32 AM
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I hate the conversations that dont go anywhere. The same things over and over again, as well as the quick addition that he's forgiven you for what you've put him through. Time passes and how quickly they forget everything that was said.
Reading your posts has helped me so much. Hugs to you
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:38 AM
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You can forgive him and at the same time leave him because it is necessary for your sanity and well being . I have forgiven my XAH but there is no way I want a relationship again.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:46 AM
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Thanks Rolltide - you said it perfectly! "I have forgiven him and his addiction" I just can not be in a relationship that is going to make me defend my own sanity.

Kitty - I am stiol trying to recall exactly what he forgives me for? Does he forgive me for locking him out of the house.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:54 AM
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Are you familiar with the cycle of abuse? My counselor shared something similar to this with me and it was as if the light suddenly came on. (I copied this from the stickies over in Friends and Families of Substance Abuse)

THE CYCLE OF ABUSE

Phase I: The tension Building

During this phase, the tension between a couple builds and arguments erupt easily. This is when accusations are made, everyday occurrences become unbearable disturbances and tension in the environment increases. There may be violent verbal outbursts, strained silences or sulking. Many women describe this as "walking on eggshells".
This phase may last only a day or two, or it could go on for several months or even years


Phase II: The acute incident

This is when the actual "fight" occurs. There may be slapping, pushing, hitting, biting, kicking, or shoving. There may be threats or the use of a weapon, sexual abuse, or even murder.

Phase III: The honeymoon

In this phase of the cycle, the batter makes many apologies and promises that will never happen again. There may be a honeymoon-like euphoria while the couple "makes up" with presents, flowers, romantic dinners out. The victim begins to hope that the batterer is genuinely remorseful, and chooses to believe that the violence will not happen again.
This phase slowly dissolves into the tension building phase, and the cycle repeats itself.

The duration of each phase varies, and will change over time. The Honeymoon Phases will become shorter, as the abuser begins to threaten even worse harm if the victim dares to leave. The Tension Building Phase quickly absorbs honeymoon time and often completely replaces it. As the abuse becomes more frequent and severe the couple moves through the cycle more quickly. Most abusive relationships begin with verbal abuse, and then move into violence, which escalates and becomes more deadly the longer the couple is together.

Many victims of abuse hang on to the belief that "the real person" will someday return for good. But they do not realize that the abuser is "the real person."
This is how I spent a good 5 or 6 years. In my marriage, there was no physical violence, but the cycle is the same with verbal/emotional abuse. I kept thinking "this time he really means it." "Maybe this time he will change for good." Then my therapist shared the cycle with me and I saw my marriage was exactly that.

Real change doesn't happen in a few days, that's just a phase of the cycle. Real change takes months, at least, sometimes years. It's okay to separate yourself in order to break the cycle. If he really does change, you won't know it for months. Let him show you with sustained action, from a distance. Words mean nothing. Listen to the actions.

L
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:04 AM
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Strongenuf -

I had almost the same exact discussion with my AH this weekend (minus him asking for sex, my AH knows better than to go there!!!)... to me, it's his attempt to suck me back in. To placate me and make this whole thing blow over. In the past, it would have worked, but not now because I'm am very keenly aware of the cycle and that we've been doing this "dance" for 10 years!!

It's okay to separate yourself in order to break the cycle. If he really does change, you won't know it for months. Let him show you with sustained action, from a distance. Words mean nothing. Listen to the actions.
This is where I'm at with it. My AH's family wants us to do marital counseling, which I think is a waste. AH needs to work on his stuff, separate and apart from me... and maybe someday, we can talk about the marriage... after I've seen sustained "action"... not just his half-ass acts of contrition.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:43 AM
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Sounds like my XABF, to be honest.
Always pretending that everything was okay, he was "all fixed."
The next stage, when I started to believe that maybe he was right and it was "fixed," was to tell me how it was only his stuff that was "all better" but I had to fix my stuff... And the cycle would start again.

Originally Posted by StrongEnuf View Post
Morning.... as I was getting in the shower.....
Him: "I can't wait to make love to you tonight"
Me: "Are you kidding? I didn't know we were anywhere near that point AGAIN"
Him: "well you just got naked infront of me!"
Me: "Actually I was getting into the shower and the door was closed! Maybe I should have locked it"
Taking everything he can, and twisting it to mean what he wants it to mean, then trying to convince you that it's your fault, you're sending him mixed messages, or to convince you that you feel differently than you feel.

XABF's favorite was to declare things like, "Well, you said this apartment was ours! Now you're saying it's just yours!" when all I had told him was it could be "our place to stay together on the occasional weekend" - he used that to move in, then protest when I tried to get him out again.

They'll twist anything.
You are strong enough. Just tap into that strength - you can do this.
You need your space. You need to be you.
If you give in to his concept of "us" you're really giving up your "you," because his "us" really simply means "him".
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:56 AM
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what happened here is for him to justify that he is rite in some way...but you have to remember...you are talking to an A...it never changes (the conversations) its a typical merry-go-round...he sees your talk as CRYING WOLF, so, either leave, or stay...its in your court and no one elses, only you can decide on what to do....dont you find your threats are useless? he does....
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:05 AM
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Oh yes, the honeymoon phase used to last for years. Now, maybe 12 hours, if that.

I don't know about you, but I sleep better when I'm on the couch.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:25 AM
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I don't really know why I posted about this, maybe just for the confirmation that I am not crazy! I did not misunderstand anything - I knew he was maniplulating the situation and sweeping it under the rug like he has done for so long. I have allowed him to push my feelings asside for 15 years why on earth wouldn't he try to again ?!?

Allowing myself to be left in a state confusion.... this is the cycle of abuse, I know this.

Thanks to you all for the comments.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:23 PM
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Mine does the same exact thing. They think sex is a cure all. That is why I finally had to stop. I think it easy to give in because we love them and want it to work so bad. Unfortunately, this just prolongs our pain and gives them mixed messages. For me, it is important to follow through with action to back up my words. I know it is hard but hang in there and think of your kdis and your future.

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Old 03-30-2011, 04:44 PM
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What a great thread! Thank you to all who shared their words of wisdom. I have to admit when I read Strongenuf's first post about him wanting sex it made me laugh.. like really.. are guys that clueless? But like someone pointed out men use sex as a way to show love, unlike women who really need to feel loved in order to have meaningful sex. Someone else pointed out that we codies tend to cave into sex, which sends the wrong message to our AH/ASO (thank you I needed to hear that one!).

I also really liked the abuse cycle comment. Two weeks ago that came up in my therapy session. It helped me to understand the "dance". It helped me to see my part in the cycle. For me, like others pointed out here, the honeymoon phase was where I thought my AH actually "got it" this time. Wow how many times did I think he got it!? Left me feeling used.. not a good feeling at all. We are at the point where some of you are at ... I am not dancing anymore, I am emotionally distancing myself right now so that I can focus on ME (I need to get healthy) and he is doing the same(at least I would like to think he is), which sadly includes no intimacy. While I would like to think somewhere down the line we will be able to rebuild our relationship, I am not planning on this, and should it actually happen it will be something that will take a while... via "sustained action"... love that, thank you LateeDA. I just pray that when and if I allow myself to trust my AH again there was enough sustained action to make reality and not more dancing.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:30 PM
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SEX?
explain to me what that is again?...*lol*
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:48 PM
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fourmaggie hahahaha LMAO I have slowly adjusted to not having it! Must say it was veryyy hard at the beginning.

Maybe we could start a silly thread on how we survive without it!

Lets start: Who has gone the longest?
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:01 PM
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Well, it's been 8 or 9 months here.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:19 PM
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at least two years. I have been out of my marriage for 19 months, and I think it was very possibly a year before that...there wasn't much of anything to try and salvage in that relationship.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:57 PM
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I guess that would depend on your definition of "sex". As far as I'm concerned, anything less than 2 minutes, (literally two minutes from the first touch to the snoring on the pillow next to me ), does not constitute sex. So in that regard, it's been a loooong time.
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