BobbyJ

There are so many things that I have lost in life due to his diesase & his behaviors. OMG...I could write a list of things that I have lost!!!

The main struggle of loss for me is:
I basically lost the realtionship with my daughter, due to his A behavior.
Havent hardly talked to her in 2 years. Now Im missing out on my new
grandbaby. Note: He took her to a tavern when she was underage, we moved
her to her real dads house, trying to protect her from a town of evil rumors and gossip. (Me, I not only tried to protect her as a normal mom, I tried to
protect her as a codie mom) Basically choked my own daughter to death..

I struggle with this everyday and have for 2 years now. Its like burying
one of your kids...I miss her so much. There are days I would give anything
just to hold her hand, smell her hair, see her beautiful smile.

(That is just one story of his behaviors with my kids)

RAH moved almost 2000 miles away. Said it was Gods plan. He has NO recovery program. He is on constant emotional rollercoaster like: Demands answers of staying married or not, accuses me of sleeping with people, loves me, everything is for sale, to how is the weather..very crazy stuff...

As far as me, Im working the Alanon program, taking care of the house, the business, the yard, the bills, the repairs, the everyday B.S...

Today he calls and tells me, that if I cant forget the past and forgive him. He cant be with me....
I was honest with him, and told him "Im not there" and dont know if I will ever be.
He tells me I need to pray for serenity and hangs up the phone.

It's like he has no remorse or understanding of the pain that he has caused.
I swear he has major dead brain cells...

I have tried for 2 years to forgive him, but it just doesnt go away. I
constantly bring it up to him. I dont know if its because he is in denial of
his actions and his alcoholism or am I in denial of my daughters own choices.
Deep down, there is so much sadness, losing my daughter.
"If I could turn back time" always goes thru my head.

Over the years, his alcoholic behaviors has caused so much pain, let alone the embrassment living in a small community.

How do you forgive and forget when you have lost your children, let alone losing your own mind at times?

So many questions run thru my mind, of forgiving...let alone forgetting.UGGGG

When I hear the alanon stories with children involved and people ask for advice on what to do with their situations..I wanna scream.."RUN, SAVE YOUR CHILDREN"....

LexieCat

Is there a reason you're still married to him?

Tuffgirl

Has he ever made amends for his behavior? I would think asking for forgiveness begins there.

Buffalo66

i feel your pain.

I can feel it through reading your post..
A little tough love:

I WISH my RAH moved 2000 miles away.
I feel like it is sort of Gods plan that he went so far away. And now you can begin to pick up YOUR pieces.

I would start by not communicating with him except by email.
IF at all.

Then, each day, make a list of what you need to do, then wa\hat you want to do. Start trying to get in touch with happiness again somehow.

keep him out of your head for now. Let yourself come closer to the place where you can answer questions for yourself, not for him.

In relation to what you lost, what you let go, what you let happen in order to stay with him, this is what the 12 steps are about.

What you are describing sounds just like anaddict who p*ssed away money, opportunity and loving relationships while being drunk, and you kind of need to do the same work that you want from him.

Get on with getting your inner house in order, and then start thinking about how to re approach your daughter.
A lot of the energy that you are expending on wondering about and dealing with him, you could spend on healing your own issues, and getting to a place of clairty. Forgiveness doesn't come when we say, "now."

You are not ready to forgive him.

IMHO your work is really right there in yourself. Maybe start by forgiving YOUrself.

It sounds like you are beating your poor self up real bad.
Get into that. Start telling yourself that you can take steps to repair your relationship with yourself, then start looking at what you can do about the other things/people who were harmed while you were on a codependent bender.

I don't know the details of things with your daughter, but...you cannot change that TODAY.
You can change things in your immediate life, your inner life.

Be kind to yourself.

BobbyJ

Thru working the steps and reading the ACOA section.
I have found alot of serenity with my daughter in my heart.
It doesnt take away the pain, but it does give me hope
and room to breath.

I have put her and the situation with her in Gods hands.

I pray & ask that: When I am ready and NOT until Im ready, may the door be opened...
I dont want to miss another chance at having her back in my life.

Today, I was thinking about forgiveness. Why am I not forgiving him for all his
bad horrible behaviors over the years? Im not a cold person, What is wrong with me?

Today the answer came to me:
I asked myself:
What would you like to hear from him?
COMPARED TO
What do I hear from him?

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR:
It would be nice to hear, that he understands what he has done & the
pain that he has caused the entire family. He is getting help and he will never allow himself to be like that again. And that he understands I have the right to have these feelings with so much pain & resentments, but together with God, we will work thru it

WHAT I HEAR?
Your always going to hold it over my head. Your daughter made her own choices.
I will not take the blame for this forever. Your a un-happy person. You need to
pray for serenity. Its in the past and I cant change it, so get over it....

Guess, thats why I cant forgive...

LexieCat

Bobby,

Forgiveness is really just us letting go of the hold someone else's wrongs have on us. It doesn't mean you let yourself get victimized again. It doesn't mean what they did was OK. It doesn't even mean feeling warm n fuzzy toward them.

It just means letting go of the pain so we don't have to keep feeling it.

Forgiveness is for us, not them.

Tuffgirl

Ya, no kidding! that's not amends. That's denial and blamestorming. As a wise SR's told me just recently, f*** that guy! And I am beginning to feel the sentiment in those words.

I am soooo sick of being told I am unhappy. I am a malcontent. I am after "my way". Ohhhh pu-lease. Get real, a-hole. I'm not the addict here. Jeesh - I wish I could be, though. How wonderful it would be to be completely not responsible for any of your life choices (oh and drunk all the time, although that does make me violently ill; I'd have to find a different DOC).

BobbyJ, we all deserve better than this. I am envious yours is 3000 miles away. Mine is 5 minutes away. 5 million miles would be much more comforting.

Keep praying for your daughter. She's what is really worth it in the end.

~T

theuncertainty

This made me really mad, BobbyJ. At your RAH? At my XAH or his GF? I'm not entirely sure, maybe all of them. Maybe at XAH's family too, since they have each told me I need to just forgive and forget. With them though, they throw in the 'for DS's sake' cr-p too.

It is NOT that easy. There is no magic button that automatically erases all of the alcoholic behavior from YEARS of abuse. My process of (possibly) forgiving XAH, is on no one's timeline but mine and my HP's. XAH most certainly does not get to tell me when I have to forgive him when he has admitted nothing, much less offered any kind of apology or amends.

And as far as his family, I have swallowed enough cr-p for the sake of my son, I still do, (I have to hear about GF's subtle put downs, that having more than two cats being irresponsible, GF's car is warmer than mine, XAH taking DS to the weekend events that I get to miss...) so thank you no, I will NOT be swallowing the 'I-must-forgive-XAH-now' pill.

So, I guess I have to answer your question on how to forgive and forget with an 'I don't know.' I don't think you have to forgive him right now. Working towards being able to forgive is a process. RAH doesn't get to tell you that you should be there already.

Take care of yourself, pamper yourself at least a little. Sending hugs.

Tuffgirl

Here's a quote from Dr. Laura:
"I clarify to people that there is a difference between an 'event' and a 'pattern'. In an event, for which a person is truly sorry, there is room for forgiveness and even a continuation of intimacies. Where there is a pattern, the other person is simply dangerous and destructive, and apologies are manipulations to keep you around to hurt some more."

I think this is why the thread triggers me - I have had very few "sorry's" and lot of continued revenge, blame, denial and betrayal...definitely a pattern going on here. I have no intention of forgiving him unless he happens to do some serious amends for his behavior, and actions follow those amends. If not, then maybe I can learn to forgive for myself sometime in the future.

Don't try to force something that isn't real, BobbyJ.

Another great quote:
"Time is the smart part of life. Time reveals character. Time permits healing and growth. Time gives perspective. Time if one of life's greatest embraces"

BobbyJ

Tuffgirl:

That pretty much sums up what I said:

What would you like to hear from him?
COMPARED TO
What do I hear from him?

It always seems like its on THEIR TIME!!

LexieCat said: : It doesn't mean you let yourself get victimized again
(This is where I struggle, of being the BAD wife) for not being supportive
or not being able to let go of my pain on his time watch...

Victimized: This is the part, where I fall. He calls one time and is SUPER SWEET, the guy who I love...Seems like I fall for it almost everytime...THEN,,,if I dont respond to his phone call or if I dont agree with what he has said...Im the victim in a snap of the finger.
He called 12 times in a half hour, of course, I was having sex with everyone & was too busy to answer the phone...

Im venting..sorry...Today is my time & I WILL STAY FOCUSED, just for today!

LS2

Sounds familiar... I got the same treatment from my exA.

I realize it is MUCH easier to forgive when I pulled myself out of the craziness. I'm still workign on it since its only been a week! The mind games are going to keep going round and round until you've had enough.

FindingPeace1

I'm really connecting with this post, too.
I have a lot of "I wish he woulds" in my head and heart, too.
On the other hand, I keep bringing up the past, too.
That is NOT getting me anywhere.
We have gone over it ten million times.
He doesn't see it my way.
He won't.
He won't validate me.
He just WON'T.
I can't make him.
I can't wheedle him, convince him, sneak up on him, bash him, stonewall him, sweet talk him into validating me.
That is SOSOSO hard to accept.

I'll walk away from it for a MONTH, then feel wistful, then call, then bring it all back up, then fight, then feel sad for two days.

Holy merry go round, batman!

We gotta stop.
We have to stop wanting/hoping/expecting them to be and think and feel something they are not.

Let it go, FP. Let it go.

What you hear:
Your always going to hold it over my head. Your daughter made her own choices.
I will not take the blame for this forever. Your a un-happy person. You need to
pray for serenity. Its in the past and I cant change it, so get over it....
IS quacking. It IS denial of responsibility on his part...
but it is also true (for me in my situation).

I DO hold it over his head. I do blame. I am unhappy about this. I do need serenity. It is in the past and I can't change it.
Nor can I change him today.

But I also can't accept a partner that won't take responsibility.
I HAVE to walk away.

Hugs to us both.
peace

Thumper

I did find forgiveness for my xah. It make no difference to him but it is very freeing for me.

A couple of things happened for me that I think brought me to a place of forgiveness.

1) - I finally 100% accepted him for who he was. I expected from him exactly what the last 16 years told me I'd get. That sure makes life a lot easier and less crazy.

2) - I gave up the struggle of trying to accept the unacceptable into my life. I let go of my guilt, my ideas of what I should do or who I should be, snd of trying to predict the future. I was no longer going to accept what I deemed unacceptable.

It wasn't quite that simplistic, and there was lots of emotional pain, but those are the big things. There was no forgiving when I was trying to get from him something he was not willing or able to give, and there was no forgiveness when my life was unmanagable because of it. There was no forgiveness when I was trying to accept the unacceptable because my resentment and anger were overwhelming and would not go away because I felt 'trapped' but it was a trap of my own making. All I had to do was step out of it and walk away.

I still get upset, sad, and occasionally rant and rave. Life isn't perfect but forgiveness brought a release of the rage and resentment that were so suffocating for so many years.

Thumper

Sorry to post twice - one more thing to share as I re-read the thread and focused on something you posted about saving the children.

I used a visualization a lot in the rough months of leaving my husband. My xah was treading water with a huge lead weight on his feet. I was hanging on to one of his hands and treading water too. In his other hand he had a key to the lead weight (alcoholism). All he had to do was reach down and unluck it but he would not. When I finally decided to leave him I really felt like I was drowning. My head was dipping below the water and I looked over at my children on the shore........and I let go of him and swam. I have tears in my eyes just writing this because it really did feel so bad, like I was leaving him to drown, but it was a struggle just to get to shore I was so tired and confused...and my sweet children were waiting there so scared and alone - watching their parents dip under the water.

I'm sharing now because just recently I think I've made it to shore...and I realize that I have my own lead weights - and I'm the only one with a key. I look again at my children on the shore. I must do what their father did not. I must reach down and turn the lock, so I can swim to them. The weight doesn't ever go away - we have to unlock it.

The children on the shore do not care how many people have weights on their feet and what they are doing about it. They don't really care how the weights got there. They are looking at me and wondering what I'm going to do about it - so I can swim back to them. I'm much stronger now and I will unlock it.

I'm sharing this as a way to help you see that you have the power to unlock your weights and swim to shore. Your children are adults now, and that is different, but my guess is that right now, starting from today, they aren't so concerned with what your husband is doing about his weights, they are wondering what you are going to do about yours and if you are going to get back to shore or not.

PS - this type of thing helps me get motivated, take action, and stay focused so I'm sharing in that spirit.

Cyranoak

And yet you stay married to him. Read your own post. Now tell yourself why you should stay married to this man. Now tell yourself why you shouldn't.

If you aren't already in Alanon, please consider starting. I believe it will help you become the kind of person who would be a good grandmother (Yes, this is a passive-aggressive sentence designed to get you into Alanon-- and I absolutely believe it to be true). I was a ******, ******, ****** father before Alanon. I'm down to only one ****** now, and I'm pacing being a good dad in the not too distant future.

God bless you and good luck,

Cyranoak

Tuffgirl

BobbyJ,
Here's the passage for today (March 28), Courage to Change book (and it hit me square in the chest when I read it this am)

What happens when I physically hold tightly to something? I turn my head away. I squeeze my eyes shut. My knuckles ache as my fists clench. Fingernails bite into my palms. I exhaust myself. I hurt!

On the other hand, when I trust God to give me what I need, I let go. I face forward. My hands are free for healthy, loving, and enjoyable activities. I find unexpected reserves of energy. My eyes open to see fresh opportunities, many of which have been there all along.

Before I complain about my suffering, I might do well to examine myself. I may be surprised by the amount of pain I can release by simply letting go.

Today's reminder:
How much can God give me if I am not open to receive? When I hold onto a problem, a fear, a resentment, I shut myself off to the help that is available to me. I will loosen my grip on something today. I will let go and let God.

It's time to let go, BobbyJ. And that sucks at first. I am so incredibly sad (see findingpeace's post) but resolved that I have tried everything, said everything, given chance after chance but I cannot accept a partner who does not take responsibility for himself, either. Today is actually getting better as I unclench a little more each hour.

passionfruit

Excellent insight. I put this on a sticky note on my desktop.

As for forgiving?

Me, I simply want to stab the SOB, I could care less about forgiving him.

Can you tell? I been missing alanon due to work and kid and and and....gotta get back, gotta get back............

BobbyJ

Passionfruit...Thanks for making me laugh today....Funny stuff right there!

You picked knives and I picked flames of fire with mine...LOL

Thanks for the smile, I sure needed it today!!!