Do you relate to this at all?
RIP Sweet Suki
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I really had to ask myself, "why do I NEED to be right?" when what I really WANT is for this part of my life to be over? As soon as I let go of that need to be right and justified, everything just seemed to fall back into place again. The anger left, the resentments subsided, I felt peaceful again.
^^^^This^^^^
^^^^This^^^^
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Ah yes that has also been my experience, when I stop trying to "show" anyone, or "convince" anyone, or "demonstrate" whatever (in any area) PEACE shows up. And I have learned to value peace.
In my own experience I made myself many questions and diagnosed the ex with many things, and even his girlfriend, then I realized I am NOT a psychologist or psychiatrist, that *I* decided to LEAVE for MY OWN GOOD, and I was ready to put it all in a huge box labeled "Who cares" and focus in what IS under MY control.
Of course this has taken me 2 years of constant triggering and much reading in SR and elsewhere and some months in therapy/group therapy and chats with AA and Alanon people and realizing who are quackers and who I can trust. Still a work in progress but at least now I feel "on the other side of the bridge" with sane people.
All the "he does this because..." were my justifications for him, and after moving a little bit forward in my mourning process I realize he said and did things because HE WANTED.. because HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.. until I was done. But it is his problem because now he keeps quacking and drinking and I am no longer in his life. So there is my proof: I did not Cause it.
When I am done (in my brightest moments) I am DONE and I realize I am also saying goodbye to the one I was, A Doormat justifying unacceptable behaviors from many people not only EXABF.
Just then I can start feeling gratitude and relief and realize I no longer have to act like a codie and there is someone who IS worth time, effort, energy and who I have kept abandoned too much time now. Someone who has a GOOD heart.
Then whatever others say or do or the reasons behind them (that often go back for generations!) is a matter of study for scientists... no longer for humble TC999 whose job is something else and among other things deserves to be free. Truly Free from that constant self defeating chatter or judgment or excuses for toxic, sick people. What a concept! Freedom.
I got carried away... but, being so close with XABF I realize more and more the size of his ego, of his selfishness and it starts sinking in that he is not worth anything from me, anymore... and this feeling is priceless, I guess its called sense of self worth...
Thanks for letting me share
In my own experience I made myself many questions and diagnosed the ex with many things, and even his girlfriend, then I realized I am NOT a psychologist or psychiatrist, that *I* decided to LEAVE for MY OWN GOOD, and I was ready to put it all in a huge box labeled "Who cares" and focus in what IS under MY control.
Of course this has taken me 2 years of constant triggering and much reading in SR and elsewhere and some months in therapy/group therapy and chats with AA and Alanon people and realizing who are quackers and who I can trust. Still a work in progress but at least now I feel "on the other side of the bridge" with sane people.
All the "he does this because..." were my justifications for him, and after moving a little bit forward in my mourning process I realize he said and did things because HE WANTED.. because HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.. until I was done. But it is his problem because now he keeps quacking and drinking and I am no longer in his life. So there is my proof: I did not Cause it.
When I am done (in my brightest moments) I am DONE and I realize I am also saying goodbye to the one I was, A Doormat justifying unacceptable behaviors from many people not only EXABF.
Just then I can start feeling gratitude and relief and realize I no longer have to act like a codie and there is someone who IS worth time, effort, energy and who I have kept abandoned too much time now. Someone who has a GOOD heart.
Then whatever others say or do or the reasons behind them (that often go back for generations!) is a matter of study for scientists... no longer for humble TC999 whose job is something else and among other things deserves to be free. Truly Free from that constant self defeating chatter or judgment or excuses for toxic, sick people. What a concept! Freedom.
I got carried away... but, being so close with XABF I realize more and more the size of his ego, of his selfishness and it starts sinking in that he is not worth anything from me, anymore... and this feeling is priceless, I guess its called sense of self worth...
Thanks for letting me share
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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Originally Posted by TakingCharge999 
Ah yes that has also been my experience, when I stop trying to "show" anyone, or "convince" anyone, or "demonstrate" whatever (in any area) PEACE shows up. And I have learned to value peace.
In my own experience I made myself many questions and diagnosed the ex with many things, and even his girlfriend, then I realized I am NOT a psychologist or psychiatrist, that *I* decided to LEAVE for MY OWN GOOD, and I was ready to put it all in a huge box labeled "Who cares" and focus in what IS under MY control.
Of course this has taken me 2 years of constant triggering and much reading in SR and elsewhere and some months in therapy/group therapy and chats with AA and Alanon people and realizing who are quackers and who I can trust. Still a work in progress but at least now I feel "on the other side of the bridge" with sane people.
All the "he does this because..." were my justifications for him, and after moving a little bit forward in my mourning process I realize he said and did things because HE WANTED.. because HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.. until I was done. But it is his problem because now he keeps quacking and drinking and I am no longer in his life. So there is my proof: I did not Cause it.
When I am done (in my brightest moments) I am DONE and I realize I am also saying goodbye to the one I was, A Doormat justifying unacceptable behaviors from many people not only EXABF.
Just then I can start feeling gratitude and relief and realize I no longer have to act like a codie and there is someone who IS worth time, effort, energy and who I have kept abandoned too much time now. Someone who has a GOOD heart.
Then whatever others say or do or the reasons behind them (that often go back for generations!) is a matter of study for scientists... no longer for humble TC999 whose job is something else and among other things deserves to be free. Truly Free from that constant self defeating chatter or judgment or excuses for toxic, sick people. What a concept! Freedom.
I got carried away... but, being so close with XABF I realize more and more the size of his ego, of his selfishness and it starts sinking in that he is not worth anything from me, anymore... and this feeling is priceless, I guess its called sense of self worth...
Thanks for letting me share
In my own experience I made myself many questions and diagnosed the ex with many things, and even his girlfriend, then I realized I am NOT a psychologist or psychiatrist, that *I* decided to LEAVE for MY OWN GOOD, and I was ready to put it all in a huge box labeled "Who cares" and focus in what IS under MY control.
Of course this has taken me 2 years of constant triggering and much reading in SR and elsewhere and some months in therapy/group therapy and chats with AA and Alanon people and realizing who are quackers and who I can trust. Still a work in progress but at least now I feel "on the other side of the bridge" with sane people.
All the "he does this because..." were my justifications for him, and after moving a little bit forward in my mourning process I realize he said and did things because HE WANTED.. because HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.. until I was done. But it is his problem because now he keeps quacking and drinking and I am no longer in his life. So there is my proof: I did not Cause it.
When I am done (in my brightest moments) I am DONE and I realize I am also saying goodbye to the one I was, A Doormat justifying unacceptable behaviors from many people not only EXABF.
Just then I can start feeling gratitude and relief and realize I no longer have to act like a codie and there is someone who IS worth time, effort, energy and who I have kept abandoned too much time now. Someone who has a GOOD heart.
Then whatever others say or do or the reasons behind them (that often go back for generations!) is a matter of study for scientists... no longer for humble TC999 whose job is something else and among other things deserves to be free. Truly Free from that constant self defeating chatter or judgment or excuses for toxic, sick people. What a concept! Freedom.
I got carried away... but, being so close with XABF I realize more and more the size of his ego, of his selfishness and it starts sinking in that he is not worth anything from me, anymore... and this feeling is priceless, I guess its called sense of self worth...
Thanks for letting me share
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Lol Tuffgirl
Ahhh the gifts of No Contact, and the good anger that asks you whether you are done yet torturing yourself
.
As tallulah said... she forgave as a purely selfish act, I am planning to follow her lead. Forgiving oneself is the toughest work IMHO...
Ahhh the gifts of No Contact, and the good anger that asks you whether you are done yet torturing yourself
. As tallulah said... she forgave as a purely selfish act, I am planning to follow her lead. Forgiving oneself is the toughest work IMHO...
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Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
Lol Tuffgirl
Ahhh the gifts of No Contact, and the good anger that asks you whether you are done yet torturing yourself.
As tallulah said... she forgave as a purely selfish act, I am planning to follow her lead. Forgiving oneself is the toughest work IMHO...
Ahhh the gifts of No Contact, and the good anger that asks you whether you are done yet torturing yourself
. As tallulah said... she forgave as a purely selfish act, I am planning to follow her lead. Forgiving oneself is the toughest work IMHO...
You can do it. It's a conscious gift to yourself. In the case of cutting out the 'cancer' of disappointment, hurt and anger turned in on yourself.. it's ok to be a little selfish, forgive yourself, and let it go.
Tx
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feels lousy
Originally Posted by wicked
You seem very angry Summerpeach. I do not think calling this woman a pig is good for you.
This whole relationship seems to have really twisted you up.
Yeah, I know, you are fine.
Beth
This whole relationship seems to have really twisted you up.
Yeah, I know, you are fine.
Beth
I completely understand it. I was there when I came here and occasionally still get that way.
I don't think it is fair to call the other woman names. She is most likely prey to him just like you were.
No we are not victims, in the end; but the beginning certainly is a different story. We each have to find the right path for us out.
My anger simply held me back from moving on and taking care of myself.
On another note, I found this interesting.
Borderlines are underdeveloped emotionally, and you must literally think of them like little kids in adult bodies. Just as you'd discipline a young child by teaching them acceptable vs unacceptable behaviors and setting firm limits and boundaries, you have to be willing to do this with a Borderline. It's the only hope you have, of attaining any harmony or peace in this relationship. In essence, if this individual doesn't respect you, they can't want you. Alas, learning how to assert, and take better care of yourself is essential.
There were times when I reacted without thinking to my AH like I would my children.
One time I told him in public while he was drinking to "Sit down and don't move until I am ready." He did it. I then began to treat him as a child. Just aggravated the situation. He said we were vying for control of the relationship. He was right.Thi
This one got me also:
Borderlines are intoxicated by The Chase--not the capture. The moment they sense you're hopelessly hooked, they lose interest, and their distancing and acting-out behaviors begin.
My AH exactly: Wanted me as long as he didn't have me. When he had me, I was no fun any more.
Even if you're the one who's walked away, you doubt your decision, because it feels so lousy being separated from him or her!
Exactly how I feel.
anyhoo...thanks for the link.
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Originally Posted by tallulah
I think it's dangerous to say all As have personality disorders.
Mine did have something going on over and above the alcoholism. What it was/is, I have no idea.. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist. I don't know if it was a personality disorder or any other issue and tbh, I don't care. I don't know if his alcoholism was the cause or a symptom.. again, I don't know and I don't care. That's his stuff to deal with and always was.
I found trying to diagnose and understand what was going on in his head was an exercise in futility, which would only serve to send me as ******* crazy as he appeared to be. My only job was/is to recognise when someone is not good for me and to cut out the toxicity in my life.
Tx
Mine did have something going on over and above the alcoholism. What it was/is, I have no idea.. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist. I don't know if it was a personality disorder or any other issue and tbh, I don't care. I don't know if his alcoholism was the cause or a symptom.. again, I don't know and I don't care. That's his stuff to deal with and always was.
I found trying to diagnose and understand what was going on in his head was an exercise in futility, which would only serve to send me as ******* crazy as he appeared to be. My only job was/is to recognise when someone is not good for me and to cut out the toxicity in my life.
Tx
I never said ALL, I said most!
One does not have to be a therapist to identify CRAZY!
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Originally Posted by wicked
Yay! Thank you Verbena. I am an RA.
I would like to add myself to the percentage of alcoholics who do NOT have a personality disorder.
I have seen a psychiatrist (in fact a few in the past 20 years) and have been diagnosed by more than one professional to have a major depressive disorder. A mood disorder.
I do not know if your ex is borderline or narcissistic, but if he is, you should run as far and as fast as you can. Someone with a borderline or narcissistic personality disorder does not believe they have a problem, and are therefore nearly imposssible to treat.
You as a person are not really real to them, you are an object to be manipulated.
I have personal experience with this particular kindof mindf**k.
If you continue to contact him, or try to be his "friend" he will devour you.
someone has a signature about dragons.
You seem very angry Summerpeach. I do not think calling this woman a pig is good for you.
This whole relationship seems to have really twisted you up.
Yeah, I know, you are fine.
Beth
I would like to add myself to the percentage of alcoholics who do NOT have a personality disorder.
I have seen a psychiatrist (in fact a few in the past 20 years) and have been diagnosed by more than one professional to have a major depressive disorder. A mood disorder.
I do not know if your ex is borderline or narcissistic, but if he is, you should run as far and as fast as you can. Someone with a borderline or narcissistic personality disorder does not believe they have a problem, and are therefore nearly imposssible to treat.
You as a person are not really real to them, you are an object to be manipulated.
I have personal experience with this particular kindof mindf**k.
If you continue to contact him, or try to be his "friend" he will devour you.
someone has a signature about dragons.
You seem very angry Summerpeach. I do not think calling this woman a pig is good for you.
This whole relationship seems to have really twisted you up.
Yeah, I know, you are fine.
Beth
Really, you sense I am angry?!
No kidding!
I think anyone would be!
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach
One does not have to be a therapist to identify CRAZY!
Takes some knowledge, experience and more importantly maybe objectivity to diagnose mental/behavioural disorders... again imho.
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
After reading some of the recent posts, I just want to say that as much as we are encouraged to understand that A is a disease and to understand/not take the A's behavior personally etc... BPD and NPD are no more choices than A is- PD's are a disease/a mental illness. It's not a choice someone makes. I think we'd do well to apply the same thought process we apply to A's behavior and the disease's impact on a person to PD's...
Someone with active A behaves much like a Borderline- everything is someone else's fault, always justified in behaving how they behave... The difference is that the A is rationalizing and the person with BPD TRULY believes what they are saying. If they FEEL something is is a FACT.
I work with 2 students with BPD, have a mother with BPD and a H with possible BPD and I feel empathy for them bc their disease is just that-- a disease. It is a mental illness that is not a choice they bring on themselves and I'd just caution us here to not get overly judgemental about those with BPD or NPD just as we are not to get overly judgemental about A.
The way that persons with PD's treat others is awful, no doubt. But so is the treatment that A's dish out. The "solution" is to deal with someone with a PD the same way we deal with A's. Detach, worry about ourselves. When the discomfort a PD'd person or A feels is greater than their fear of changing or questioning their beliefs, that's when they will seek help.
A person with a PD is no more or less likely to change than is an A. At least that's my understanding from dealing with therapists working with my students, belonging to a message board for those living with someone with PD etc...
I'm not saying excuse the behavior of those with PD, but maybe we shouldn't be overly harsh....
Someone with active A behaves much like a Borderline- everything is someone else's fault, always justified in behaving how they behave... The difference is that the A is rationalizing and the person with BPD TRULY believes what they are saying. If they FEEL something is is a FACT.
I work with 2 students with BPD, have a mother with BPD and a H with possible BPD and I feel empathy for them bc their disease is just that-- a disease. It is a mental illness that is not a choice they bring on themselves and I'd just caution us here to not get overly judgemental about those with BPD or NPD just as we are not to get overly judgemental about A.
The way that persons with PD's treat others is awful, no doubt. But so is the treatment that A's dish out. The "solution" is to deal with someone with a PD the same way we deal with A's. Detach, worry about ourselves. When the discomfort a PD'd person or A feels is greater than their fear of changing or questioning their beliefs, that's when they will seek help.
A person with a PD is no more or less likely to change than is an A. At least that's my understanding from dealing with therapists working with my students, belonging to a message board for those living with someone with PD etc...
I'm not saying excuse the behavior of those with PD, but maybe we shouldn't be overly harsh....
I'm done with compassion.
The word "Should" is pretty self righteous! I heal the way I heal and I was FINALLY able to RUN and let go of this abuser (PD OR NOT) by being harsh and angry!
FINALLY I"M ANGRY AND I LET GO...........YAY ME!
I really could care less about compassion for anyone disordered. They DESTROY lives. Should we be compassionate for Ted Bundy and Scott Peterson who both have NPD?
How about child abusers or pedophiles with PD's, should we not be so harsh????
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
My point wasn't anything to do with whether he's crazy or not. More to do with how it can't be all that good for you to go on obsessing about it and letting his problems occupy so much space in your head.
I found a lot more peace when I got to work figuring myself out. Why was I attracted to people who hurt me? Why was it so difficult to let go of him and his problems? What beliefs was I carrying around that no longer served my best interests? Those are the kind of questions that really helped me start living a better life.
The world is full of crazy/addicted/toxic people. I cannot possibly learn the details and symptoms of every single disorder just to keep myself safe from them. I must focus on myself and what is good and acceptable in my life. Life is too short to waste time figuring out why toxic people are toxic. Much better to just avoid them altogether. And it's a big enough task already trying to figure out my own self.
L
I found a lot more peace when I got to work figuring myself out. Why was I attracted to people who hurt me? Why was it so difficult to let go of him and his problems? What beliefs was I carrying around that no longer served my best interests? Those are the kind of questions that really helped me start living a better life.
The world is full of crazy/addicted/toxic people. I cannot possibly learn the details and symptoms of every single disorder just to keep myself safe from them. I must focus on myself and what is good and acceptable in my life. Life is too short to waste time figuring out why toxic people are toxic. Much better to just avoid them altogether. And it's a big enough task already trying to figure out my own self.
L
I know you're trying to be helpful, but really, this is where I am at in my healing and it's not where you're at.
I'm at THIS stage now.
I've been in Al anon for 18 months and in therapy on and off for over 2 yrs, so I am focusing on ME!
Hell, he cheated and I left him right away and never took him back, I would say that was making life about me right?
Part of healing is ALSO finally figuring out the other person, I did and now I am FREE!
Again, thanks, but i was never a fan of your lectures!
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Originally Posted by starcat
i would not say that all a's have personality disorders.
I will say, though, that it's not uncommon for those with undiagnosed personality disorders to self-medicate with alcohol and other drugs. I won't list numbers, because i don't know them, but i do know it's common enough that there have been plenty of studies on the effect.
That said, i do believe there is a possibility that my xabf does have a personality disorder - or he could be a deeply troubled individual with a lot of things in his past that he is trying to avoid, by drinking and blameshifting/projecting onto others.
I will say, though, that it's not uncommon for those with undiagnosed personality disorders to self-medicate with alcohol and other drugs. I won't list numbers, because i don't know them, but i do know it's common enough that there have been plenty of studies on the effect.
That said, i do believe there is a possibility that my xabf does have a personality disorder - or he could be a deeply troubled individual with a lot of things in his past that he is trying to avoid, by drinking and blameshifting/projecting onto others.
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
And be prepared to be flexible, while accepting personal responsibility for how flexible you choose to be. We let our "toxic" people toxic-fy (I think I just made up that word) our lives. That's our responsibility. It really doesn't matter if those toxic people are addicts or mentally ill or just plain selfish a-holes.
Summerpeach - you sound very angry and hurt. I don't blame you. What a lousy situation to have to deal with, but detachment does wonders as others here have posted. Giving this guy this much space in your head - for nothing - isn't worth it. He doesn't deserve your time and energy anymore.
IMHO, your conversations with him are futile. You KNOW the truth already, why bother trying to convince him over and over again? That's crazy train emotional roller coaster behavior, guaranteed. And it keeps you hooked and engaged with him.
I really had to ask myself, "why do I NEED to be right?" when what I really WANT is for this part of my life to be over? As soon as I let go of that need to be right and justified, everything just seemed to fall back into place again. The anger left, the resentments subsided, I felt peaceful again.
Hoping your day gets better,
~T
Summerpeach - you sound very angry and hurt. I don't blame you. What a lousy situation to have to deal with, but detachment does wonders as others here have posted. Giving this guy this much space in your head - for nothing - isn't worth it. He doesn't deserve your time and energy anymore.
IMHO, your conversations with him are futile. You KNOW the truth already, why bother trying to convince him over and over again? That's crazy train emotional roller coaster behavior, guaranteed. And it keeps you hooked and engaged with him.
I really had to ask myself, "why do I NEED to be right?" when what I really WANT is for this part of my life to be over? As soon as I let go of that need to be right and justified, everything just seemed to fall back into place again. The anger left, the resentments subsided, I felt peaceful again.
Hoping your day gets better,
~T
And yes, I am hurt and angry because I finally see what I've been in denial about and see him for who he truly is!
I don't need to be right, I need peace!
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Originally Posted by tallulah
Yeah.. imho you kinda do. We're all a little crazy, 'normal' is just a setting on a washing machine.
Takes some knowledge, experience and more importantly maybe objectivity to diagnose mental/behavioural disorders... again imho.
Takes some knowledge, experience and more importantly maybe objectivity to diagnose mental/behavioural disorders... again imho.
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach
No, you kinda don't!
Don't bother to respond.. I find your anger and inability to accept anyone else's point of view or their right to have a point of view contrary to your own a little.. well.. too close to what I escaped from.
Peace out.
*thread left*
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Originally Posted by tallulah
Well we'll have to agree to disagree.
Don't bother to respond.. I find your anger and inability to accept anyone else's point of view or their right to have a point of view contrary to your own a little.. well.. too close to what I escaped from.
Peace out.
*thread left*
Don't bother to respond.. I find your anger and inability to accept anyone else's point of view or their right to have a point of view contrary to your own a little.. well.. too close to what I escaped from.
Peace out.
*thread left*
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May I suggest...
...because I think you are usually really cool, that your anger and resentment towards him, while justified, is hurting you more than it's hurting him? Your exchanges on this post where you are directing your anger towards Tallulah and others who have been sharing good information with their hearts in the right places, are a good example of this. Respectfully, you are being really out of line. I know. I'm out of line too sometimes. It doesn't look any better on you than it does on me.
I know mine hurts me more than it hurts anybody else. The more I'm able to just let it go the happier I am. I wish I could do it faster.
Take care,
Cyranoak
I know mine hurts me more than it hurts anybody else. The more I'm able to just let it go the happier I am. I wish I could do it faster.
Take care,
Cyranoak
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach
I know you're trying to be helpful, but really, this is where I am at in my healing and it's not where you're at.
I'm at THIS stage now.
I'm at THIS stage now.
Originally Posted by Summerpeach
Again, thanks, but i was never a fan of your lectures!
Peace,
L
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For the Record...
...I love LaTeeDa's posts and I'm a huge fan. A lot of good recovery in them, a lot of maturity in them, and a lot of self-awareness in them. If what somebody reads in them hurts or comes across as a lecture the problem isn't on her side of the internet.
Summer, your responses to people on this thread are not indicative of somebody who is going to Alanon, working the steps, and trying to practice the principles in all of their affairs.
And, yes, this is a lecture.
Cyranoak
Summer, your responses to people on this thread are not indicative of somebody who is going to Alanon, working the steps, and trying to practice the principles in all of their affairs.
And, yes, this is a lecture.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
And quite intent on staying there, too, it seems. Your choice.
Awww, really? I'm all about the "fans."
Peace,
L
Awww, really? I'm all about the "fans."
Peace,
L
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