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Making sense of it all?!?

Old 02-28-2011, 03:42 AM
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Making sense of it all?!?

I have a question......
Once you remove yourself from the toxic people, how do you ever trust again?

My whole life I've been told "If you love me you'll trust me."
Either by my GA father of my current AH. And at the same time your told to not belive what you see with your own eyes!
(my father) " No I didn't just sign your name to a legal document.
No I didn't spend all of your college money, while telling you it was being paid.. leaving you to waste 2 yrs of your life for college credits you'll never recive"
No I didn't just sell your belongings out from under you! You must have misplace them."

(my ah) "I'm not drinking again."
"I didn't just spend all the money on beer. I bought your medication didn't I?"

And then if you speak up about it,,they use any number of tactics to get you to drop it, because in the end you know you'll never win.
My father has the rest of my family convinced I'm crazy, and that he was afraid of me.
And whenevr. I talk about real issues with my AH he tells his family that I'm putting a strain on our relationship!

I think I've gone off on a rant...sorry,
my point is, when I've been told or coersed into believing everything I have ever felt or thought is wrong..even bad...how do I come out from under that?
I used to think if I could just find proof/ hard evidence/ than it would all end, yet even in the face of concrete evidence, they still deny deny until the day they die.

Well, thank you for letting me vent. I obviously have much work to do today. Now that I'm waking up to all of this, I guess I will just try to tackle each new thought as it sufaces. One thought at a time, One day at a time. Right?
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by starlight40 View Post
I have a question......
Once you remove yourself from the toxic people, how do you ever trust again?

?
"it's not about trusting them,
it's about trusting yourself.
Do you trust yourself enough to walk away if needed."
quote from a fellow SR member

When you learn to listen to your gut, and act on what your gut is saying - you will have trust. The trust that matters most - trusting yourself.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:10 AM
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I agree with Pelican, also as I become more healthy, I trust my boundaries. I understand my needs, create boundaries I'm comfortable with and allow only those who have demonstrated reliability to have certain roles in my life.

Little by little it gets better. I just posted (all though not very well i think) about how my awareness of my issues with my middle son are difficult for me to accept right now. This is the same thing. Awareness of how and why you dont' trust can lead to re-establishing that foundation.

We're the secret weapon. We have unlimited power to change ourselves.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:13 AM
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I will confess, not only is it difficult to trust other people again, it is difficult to trust myself.

I will say, I do trust the people I have met on this forum, and at Al-Anon, for the most part. I figure people who have gone through stories similar to mine wouldn't lie to me - at least, not intentionally.

I think the A's lie to us, because they are lying to themselves, and actually start to believe it. I can forgive them for that, I suppose, but I cannot trust them because I do not know if there is any truth at all in anything they say.

I do have a hard time trusting others. Case in point:
My psychologist informed me of my copay. I have been paying that amount every time I have gone to see him.
I just got my first "statement" in the mail from the insurance. It said my copay was 2/3 what he told me it was.
Rather than believe that my psychologist got confused and didn't realize that where my insurance was concerned he fell into the "specialist" category - with the lower co-pay - I had a gut reaction that he was charging me extra to pad his own pockets or some such nonsense.

I trust my psychologist. I do not believe he would lie to me, ever, for any reason. He is a good person, and has been helping me rebuild myself, quite successfully. But for five minutes after opening that envelope, I didn't trust anybody, and it felt like the floor fell out from under me again.

Trust is hard.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:22 AM
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I SO feel you and coming from denial-mom who does not connect with her feelings...well, I have a hard time connecting fully with mine!!
I am in the divorce how, when, where, what discussions with my AH and he got angry, telling me I am controlling and think I am always right.
Well, I can be that way, too. And it got me doubting myself and second guessing.

I don't trust myself enough to trust myself! LOL! I CAN be controlling and think I'm right. I can swing between that and denial. (Where's the darn middle ground??)

So, I start wondering, if I were not that way...THEN what would it be like?
Useless doubt.
But my GUILT over being imperfect makes me feel I have no right to set boundaries (I have an SR voice in my head saying abusers take advantage of that...)


So, this is, at base, why his lies trigger me so much, I think.
If I can't trust ME to take care of myself (because I trusted him in the relationship) and I can't trust him to take care of me (because he lied and hid)...who is taking care of me?
That gets my little girl (inside me) frightened.

I DON'T trust myself. I am bound to pick the wrong partner (obviously), to try to control others or be in denial. How can I trust all that?

Help! I need a therapist! LOL!

So, yes, I am processing my stuff on your thread (sheepish grin), but I thought it might help you, too!


Hugs, peace
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:31 AM
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We're the secret weapon. We have unlimited power to change ourselves.
Yes! I love this!
Wow, I have written it down in my book of wise, witty and pithy sayings.
It is magnificent.

Trust yourself, starlight, it may be a process but keep working on it.
Your life will expand as you learn it is what you think that matters.
Nothing else.

Beth
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:31 AM
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Rather than believe that my psychologist got confused and didn't realize that where my insurance was concerned he fell into the "specialist" category - with the lower co-pay - I had a gut reaction that he was charging me extra to pad his own pockets or some such nonsense.
This is fascinating to me.

I'm working with a life-long criminal right now, helping him start a legitimate business. STaring the business is the easy part. Helping someone change life long criminal habits-in the way he thinks-is the real trick.

He assumes everyone is out to rob him. Convincing him to drop his expectation that he can trust no one is daunting, to say the least.

I taught him a mantra that I use when experiencing mistrust and fear, "I experience love wherever I go. Riches of all sorts are drawn to me."


The more I learn about him, the more I understand him. His mother was a petty criminal, she raised him and taught him how to mistrust. Told him outright he can't trust anyone.

Dysfunctional families do that. My family was so abusive, yet I was told over and over again, "you'll never have anyone but your family." How sick. You can't escape. You only have us.

And then if you speak up about it,,they use any number of tactics to get you to drop it, because in the end you know you'll never win.
My father has the rest of my family convinced I'm crazy, and that he was afraid of me.
And whenevr. I talk about real issues with my AH he tells his family that I'm putting a strain on our relationship
!

Star, I had to go NC with my father for about two years. Since, I've made my boundaries very clear and he complies. It's bizarre. He's still drinking, but married a church going woman. She's done something to slap him out of his abusive stupor, I dont' know what. Doesn't matter, all that matters is he treats me according to what I will accept and what I won't. I shape that relationship differently than I used to.

I use to allow my father to be horribly abusive. I took it or raged at him. Being emotional gave him the ability to treat me like I am the problem. I handed him that ammunition to shoot at me.

Sorry to go crazy on your thread. I've just been thinking about trust issues and family of origin stuff.

YOu'll sort it out, keep being honest with yourself and reaching out for help. The right tools will come to you.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:15 AM
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This is some great feedback guys! Thank you!

When I am alone My voice rings through loud and clear!

And Just the act of writing this thread today has made it louder.

It's the fact of being the only sane person in a room full of insanity, and trying to convince them I am sane!
I guess its more a matter of if you don't like your audience, change venues!

My opinion is the only one that matters right?

And thankyou for sharing your experiences with me..............so helpful!!!!!

In just the past 3 days I've begun processing so much, I should be exhausted, but actually I've never felt more alive.
I told my friend that I've been on here(she knows the situation) and she says I sound lighter somehow.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:58 AM
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Yay!

It's the fact of being the only sane person in a room full of insanity, and trying to convince them I am sane!
Lordy can I relate to this. I guess I'm learning how to exited the room, or learning how to not engage when surrounded by lunatics. I keep my (emotional and physical) distance.

Lately I've noticed being hooked into others conversations, but I just tell myself to listen and learn, not react.

Then later I look at what they were doing, how I wanted to respond and the dignity it gives me to just STFU.

It's hard for me to do!
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:29 AM
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I agree with the comments about it starts with trusting yourself...through my own experience, I can think back and identify the point where I started to walk away from my intuition and instead follow my heart. In hindsight, that was a very painful choice. And I know that if I do the things I need to do to stay honest with myself and connected to my intuition, that I'll be able to maintain whatever my natural level of trust is with the rest of the world.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:38 AM
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Two things...

The first is that, "if you love me you'll trust me" is at the top of the Manipulative Toolbox. The moment you hear it alarm bells should go off because it's a certain sign somebody is taking advantage of you. There is no question of this.

Trust me.

Just kidding.

Trustworthy people don't have to ask for trust.

The second thing? Trust, but verify. However, if somebody has already proven themselves not to be trustworthy, don't trust, and verify.

Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranaok

P.s. How do you get trust back and will you ever trust again? That, unfortunately, I've got nothing for. Let me know if you find the answer.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:41 AM
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Hi, There is a lot in Melodie Beattie: Codependent NoMore about learning to trust yourself.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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Somehow when I see the realities, no longer live in fantasy land, it gets easier to know who I can really trust. And for the ones who I no longer trust for any reason (even if it sounds dumb or 'its only me') well I no longer force myself to still be there or trust them with anything. My BS tolerance is lower by the minute

Great thread thanks all
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:25 PM
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I've learned a lot today! Thank you all. I'm so glad to have found such a wonderful group of people to help guide me through this time.
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