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ahhh the quacking continues...

Old 02-27-2011, 10:23 PM
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ahhh the quacking continues...

Thank goodness I have Alnon tomorrow.

RAH who told me he does not love me anymore and is leaving me in Aug (after I finish Nursing school).

now he says he still doens't know if he loves me BUT...he wants to plan to stay. He wants us to spend our tax refund on new furniture...fix up the house some etc... he says maybe he doesn't like the house and THAT is why he hates coming home.
Nice huh.

so here's my plan. I've gone and looked at furniture w/ him.
I've let him talk and talk.
I just don't pay any attention but pretend to.
he had a plan.....and he decided to change it. It's easier for him to stay here than move out, leave the comforts of home, his children and his very comfy life here.
But now for MY plan.
My plan is still in place. I STILL don't want someone who can't say that they love me AND ACT THAT WAY.
I still deserve more than he gives me by way of respect and courteous behavior.
He's come in w/ all these tidbits of advice from his AA group...how to make a marriage work etc...
it's making me a bit nuts. I kinda feel like I'm keeping him in the dark but it's not like I have the freedom to express myself anyway because he gets mad and will leave.
So.... I guess I feel guilty.
He's making all these plans to stay, and actually DO things...(not that he WILL..but it's good he wants to). and I just really don't want that.

I love him. Yes I do. At least I love the person I believed he was. I don't think he ever was that person and I was just too stuck in what I wanted himm to be.

So...although I've made it almost a whole week w/ NO crying..woohoo!
Tonight I'm not so good.
I'm feeling like I'm decieving him by letting him continue this way but I know that I easily could get sucked in if I pretend too much. kwim?
I don't want to!!! I'm too scared he's going to pull the rug out from under me again, and he will I'm 100% sure about that at least.
OMG...I'm just really confused...I know what I want, I know it hurts, I know I'm doing what I need to so I can cope and get through the next couple months....but it's really hard.
anyone know the name of a good therapist?
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:36 AM
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I read a book many years ago that's now dog-eared from getting me through two divorces and a major breakup. It's called "Uncoupling: Turning Points in Intimate Relationships" (by Diane Vaughan). She is a sociologist, and she interviewed both halves of dozens of couples who were going through or had gone through breakups (including married couples, people living together in committed relationships, gay and straight). It doesn't have to do with addiction/alcoholism specifically.

What she found was that in almost all situations, one person is the "Initiator" of the breakup--the one who first wants out and the other is the "Partner" who may not have a clue for a long time what's in the other's mind. What she also found is that most breakups follow a typical pattern where people go through the motions of "trying to make it work" with each of them, though, having different agendas (possibly agendas they aren't even aware of). The point of "trying" from the Initiator's viewpoint is to convince themselves and the Partner that this can't possibly work. The point of "trying" on the Partner's part is to save the relationship.

In all three cases I was the "Initiator" but it was very enlightening to me to see how the dynamics really did seem to be almost universal, and it rang very true for me.

So it may be that he is just going through the motions to satisfy both of you that this won't work out. It sure doesn't seem like his heart is in the relationship. He may not even be sure what it is he really wants, but if I were you I think I would proceed with your plan.

Wish I had a therapist to suggest--I think it's a good idea for you to talk to somebody. A reality check can be very useful.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:40 AM
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Hmmm, IMO, either way, you "lose". You tell him right now that you don't want to stay together, he makes your life hell until August (i.e., you lose). You tell him in July that you don't want to stay together, you'll be accused of betrayal and lying (i.e. you lose). It's kind of a case of choosing the lesser of two evils.

I can't remember if this person is abusive to you, but if he is, I'd chose to keep my mouth shut till I had everything firmly in place to leave. Then he can b*tch and moan however much he wants about being betrayed. It won't matter because in every situation in his mind, you'll be a bad guy. But in reality, you'll be free of him.

However, if you're able to be up front with him and tell him straight away that you're not interested in spending your tax return money on silly pieces of furniture that will eventually get divied up in your divorce settlement anyhow, go for it. Expect a backlash though. Even if the man isn't typically abusive, he'll turn ugly, that's for certain.

It really isn't much of a choice isn't it? I wish there was another option for you, such as "leave now and finish your studies elsewhere". Is that even an option?
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:53 AM
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Exclamation perspective challenge

Originally Posted by blwninthewind View Post
Thank goodness I have Alnon tomorrow.

RAH who told me he does not love me anymore and is leaving me in Aug (after I finish Nursing school).

now he says he still doens't know if he loves me BUT...he wants to plan to stay. He wants us to spend our tax refund on new furniture...fix up the house some etc... he says maybe he doesn't like the house and THAT is why he hates coming home.
Nice huh.

so here's my plan. I've gone and looked at furniture w/ him.
I've let him talk and talk.
I just don't pay any attention but pretend to.
he had a plan.....and he decided to change it. It's easier for him to stay here than move out, leave the comforts of home, his children and his very comfy life here.
But now for MY plan.
My plan is still in place. I STILL don't want someone who can't say that they love me AND ACT THAT WAY.
I still deserve more than he gives me by way of respect and courteous behavior.
He's come in w/ all these tidbits of advice from his AA group...how to make a marriage work etc...
it's making me a bit nuts. I kinda feel like I'm keeping him in the dark but it's not like I have the freedom to express myself anyway because he gets mad and will leave.
So.... I guess I feel guilty.
He's making all these plans to stay, and actually DO things...(not that he WILL..but it's good he wants to). and I just really don't want that.

I love him. Yes I do. At least I love the person I believed he was. I don't think he ever was that person and I was just too stuck in what I wanted himm to be.

So...although I've made it almost a whole week w/ NO crying..woohoo!
Tonight I'm not so good.
I'm feeling like I'm decieving him by letting him continue this way but I know that I easily could get sucked in if I pretend too much. kwim?
I don't want to!!! I'm too scared he's going to pull the rug out from under me again, and he will I'm 100% sure about that at least.
OMG...I'm just really confused...I know what I want, I know it hurts, I know I'm doing what I need to so I can cope and get through the next couple months....but it's really hard.
anyone know the name of a good therapist?
I am going to do something I tend to shy away from, and that's challenge you as was done to me on a quacking post I left here. Reason being, the challenge was worthy and accurate and it made me shift my perspective. Take what works and leave the rest...

First of all, your RAH may be trying to talk the talk before he is able to walk the walk. Just today, concernednurse posted the following quote on another thread, and I wrote it down for future reminders, "You cannot think yourself into right acting, but you can act yourself into right thinking". He is going to AA (action), he is trying to reconnect with you (action) he is trying to reestablish his commitment to your family (action). It may be the actions you are seeing aren't what you want to see, so you don't consider them actually pretty big steps for the A.

My sponsor reminds me to thank my HP everyday that my RAH did not drink today. That in itself is a gift to both of us and our family. So when I start to head down the "I am not seeing enough action to make up for the crap I had to deal with before" road - I remind myself that today - my RAH is still an RAH and thank God for that. It helps to reframe my expectations so I don't miss out on the little action steps he is making by focusing on everything he is not doing that would truly satisfy my desire for some amends (yet, if ever). I have to acknowledge everything he is doing or none of it means anything and I am still the same old nagging, demanding wife that expects too much from him.

Lastly, in focusing on myself, I am taking the time to see how I feel about accepting who this man IS today, not who I thought/wanted/dreamed he was. That was a fantasy. This is my reality. Can I accept this? Can I find solace in what he has to offer or will I always feel short-changed?

Yeah, he hurt me, let me down, verbally abused me, made promises he never kept, was all talk and no action, blah blah blah. But that was then - this is now. He is in AA and not drinking, and that is HUGE! HUGE! He is trying to make some serious life changes. But consider how long did it take for your RAH to become an alcoholic? For mine, it was a solid 20 years...can I realistically expect him to change in 3 months? Probably not. But can I support his efforts, even if they pale in comparison to the damage he did as a drunk? Yes. Just for today. One day at a time. Progress, not perfection. And venting to other people when I get overwhelmed.

I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own hurt that we fail to see the hurt in others who hurt us. It's there, underneath the surface of a guy trying to stay sober. So maybe the quacking isn't really quacking - maybe it might be trying. Just food for thought...
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:46 PM
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I wish I had been "in the moment" enough to thank my HP when my RAW wasn't drinking. Every day was a better day than when she was. She fell off the wagon and life went down the toilet. (I know I didn't cause it, but I have been thinking about how we got from where we were to where we are now...) I took her sobriety for granted and I regret that.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:40 PM
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Anybody who would tell me that they don't know if they love me--I'd look them in the eye and ask when he mentions furniture--do you love me?
If he's unsure, then simply respond: and I'm unsure about buying furniture!!!

I don't care if they're sober or drunk--a non-committed spouse is just that--and certainly isn't ready to be considering buying furniture--unless his plan is to get all that furniture to himself without splitting the income tax with you.

I'd laugh if a non-committed partner wanted me to commit to furniture, or anything else. Non-committed is just that--and nothing else matters or is of concern until THAT ISSUE IS SETTLED!
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own hurt that we fail to see the hurt in others who hurt us. It's there, underneath the surface of a guy trying to stay sober. So maybe the quacking isn't really quacking - maybe it might be trying. Just food for thought...
Tuffgirl has made an interesting point. I have no doubt that your RAH is in a lot of pain. He probably is doing the best he can.

I've never met your RAH but I know that my AH would run right over me if I didn't keep my guard up. I don't intend to let him do that to me again. If my AH decides to flush his life down the toilet, I'm not going with him.

I have a right to protect myself. I have a right to look out for my best interests. If that means I don't tell him everything I'm thinking and doing, that's okay. Why feed him information that he could use to destroy my future?
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
I am going to do something I tend to shy away from, and that's challenge you as was done to me on a quacking post I left here. Reason being, the challenge was worthy and accurate and it made me shift my perspective. Take what works and leave the rest...

First of all, your RAH may be trying to talk the talk before he is able to walk the walk. Just today, concernednurse posted the following quote on another thread, and I wrote it down for future reminders, "You cannot think yourself into right acting, but you can act yourself into right thinking". He is going to AA (action), he is trying to reconnect with you (action) he is trying to reestablish his commitment to your family (action). It may be the actions you are seeing aren't what you want to see, so you don't consider them actually pretty big steps for the A.

My sponsor reminds me to thank my HP everyday that my RAH did not drink today. That in itself is a gift to both of us and our family. So when I start to head down the "I am not seeing enough action to make up for the crap I had to deal with before" road - I remind myself that today - my RAH is still an RAH and thank God for that. It helps to reframe my expectations so I don't miss out on the little action steps he is making by focusing on everything he is not doing that would truly satisfy my desire for some amends (yet, if ever). I have to acknowledge everything he is doing or none of it means anything and I am still the same old nagging, demanding wife that expects too much from him.

Lastly, in focusing on myself, I am taking the time to see how I feel about accepting who this man IS today, not who I thought/wanted/dreamed he was. That was a fantasy. This is my reality. Can I accept this? Can I find solace in what he has to offer or will I always feel short-changed?

Yeah, he hurt me, let me down, verbally abused me, made promises he never kept, was all talk and no action, blah blah blah. But that was then - this is now. He is in AA and not drinking, and that is HUGE! HUGE! He is trying to make some serious life changes. But consider how long did it take for your RAH to become an alcoholic? For mine, it was a solid 20 years...can I realistically expect him to change in 3 months? Probably not. But can I support his efforts, even if they pale in comparison to the damage he did as a drunk? Yes. Just for today. One day at a time. Progress, not perfection. And venting to other people when I get overwhelmed.

I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own hurt that we fail to see the hurt in others who hurt us. It's there, underneath the surface of a guy trying to stay sober. So maybe the quacking isn't really quacking - maybe it might be trying. Just food for thought...
I really hadn't looked at it like that. Maybe just because what I see as nonaction isn't really nonaction but just that he hasn't gotten there yet.
I think my feelings are still raw, I'm still pi$%%^& off that he decided to do share this information (I don't love you crap) now, when I'm in the middle of a really tough Nursing program...and expect me to just take it. Maybe he IS trying. I'm very thankful he is not drinking. I thank my HP everyday for that gift...but that doesn't mean I'm going to just let him grab the rope and swing me around w/ it for another 20 yrs while he tries to sort through his feelings.
Boundaries...a new concept for me but for me I will not live w/ an actively drinking AH. PERIOD. He knows that clearly. He is secure in the knowledge that if he drinks he will find himself on the front lawn w/ all his crap in hefty bags. My thinking is that when he's really ready to go...that is what he will do. He will relapse because it's the one thing he can't undo and that I won't accept. Sure I'll be the bad guy in the situation but I can live with that.
I'm just not worrying about it much and to be honest...I'd love new furniture! whether he stays or goes! A nice big present to myself :day6
TY for your view...it does make me think.
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