theuncertainty

Big hugs, Mamaplus2kids. Reading his e-mails to you felt so familiar to me. (I still haven't responded to XAH's request on changing his supervised visitation with DS since he changed jobs.)

Why would he think it's OK to only visit with 1 of your 2 children? Especially after this manipulative statement from him:

Not really a question there, just an incredulous statement on my part. If it's so important to him to see his kids after such a long time, it should be important to see both of them, not just one. What a shmuck.

You're doing wonderful.

nodaybut2day

YES! That's exactly right. It takes guts to say that word, but it's exactly what he needs to hear.

It will get easier mama, honestly it will. I used to have attacks of nausea and vomitting when I had to answer XAH's emails...eventually, I started to use the "fewest words" strategy. I let go of my desire to "prove him wrong", to "show him the error of his ways", etc etc, and just communicated the simplest details via texts:

Me: Sunday visit: on?
Him: Yes. Will you be there at 12h30 or 13h30, because I have this thing I need to do bla bla bla blah...
Me: Be there @ 13h30. Pick up at 16h30.

It took a while but he eventually got the idea that I would not ever be dragged into an argument.

mamaplus2kids

Email 1: "Why not ?"
Email 2 (30 mins later): "can you explain to me your reasons for being unwilling to consider an overnight please?"

I guess I don't answer either of these right?

StarCat

You don't owe him any explanation whatsoever.

It's right there in the court order. Once he proves (in YOUR opinion) that half days are "well practiced and positive," he can do full days, then overnights.

He hasn't proved to you that these experiences are "well practiced and positive."
If he genuinely wants an answer to his question, all he has to do is read the court order.

He doesn't want the real answer, he just wants to drag you into his madness again, as witnessed by the fact that he already sent two emails about it within a half hour of each other.
I'm not you, but I'd ignore them.

mamaplus2kids

Thank you so much everybody! I can't tell you how much you have helped me through this email exchange. Just to read your perceptions and advice has helped restore my sanity. For so many years, I have doubted my perception of reality. You just helped me have the courage to do what I have to do! Thank you!!!

nodaybut2day

well, the logical answer to "Why not?" would be "Because you're an irresponsible alcoholic and because the courts order says so", but really, what's the point of arguing, right?

You did AWESOME mama

mamaplus2kids

Just an aside... I taped the kids' conversation with their father tonight. I started doing this last week, because my son was starting to act emotional and difficult. I just wanted to know what he was saying to him. I know I can't use it in court, etc. I just want to know what kind of crap he's feeding the kids.

The conversation was quite boring. My 6-year old son was too busy playing with 'emoticons' and spelling out words on the computer than talk to his father. But there were three points that disturbed me:

1) When my son asked him "what did you do today dad?" my AXH said: "I'm trying to survive." Unbelievable... getting his children to feel sorry for him.

2) "Do you see [mom's boyfriend]?" He asked this at least three times; each time our son ignored the question. So inappropriate... this questioning.

3) Then, my 11-year old daughter was describing to her father the new computer I have. He said "Have mom send the old computer to Grandma (his mother). Don't ask your mom, just tell her." This explains why I have been having such discipline problems with my daughter!

This is the kind of man I have to deal with. Has anyone experienced this level of manipulation before?

mamaplus2kids

I think this deserves its own thread.

mamaplus2kids

I've been good. I haven't answered his emails. Another one just came in, and it's 4 a.m. in the USA. I guess he's using. I guess this is a temper tantrum, hey?

"Please explain to me why you are unwilling to even consider a simple over night for my son and I during Easter. Please explain to me specifically your concerns that you have with me that makes you resistant to my proposal without simply referencing the court order, I know what it says. Agreements we make between ourselves supersede any court order.
Please answer me."

nodaybut2day

And while you drag and drop the email into a separate folder called "Moron", you can sing to yourself the song "The Sound of Silence"

mamaplus2kids

Thank you nodaybut2day!! Your comment made me smile! I needed that!!!

theuncertainty

I’ve definitely dealt with manipulation along those same lines, Mama+2. XAH is a master manipulator. He can’t reach me directly any more, so GF is doing it, or he/they do it through DS. Which is pretty f-ing low and sh-tty. Many people have told me that it’s not personal; it’s just the way XAH is. It’s really hard to keep that in mind. And I’m not always sure I believe it.

I can completely hear XAH's voice as I read the e-mail from yours, Mama+2. XAH's punctuation and grammar isn't nearly as good, but it is the same tone, the same I-don't-think-the-rules-apply-to-me and you-have-to-do-what-I-tell-you-to mentality: Pffft, so what if there's a court order in place, this is what I want. And you're being unreasonable when you don't give it to me.

My first inclination would be to start listing (these are mine. I'm not saying they happened in your situation, Mama+2) every reason I could think of, without pulling any punches, metaphorically speaking:

My concerns about you having DS for overnight unsupervised visits are as follows:

• You have drunk heavily while watching DS.
• You have drunk to the point of passing out while watching DS.
• You have driven under the influence with DS in the car.
• You have driven under the influence with DS in the car while not having a valid driver’s license or insurance.
• You have taken DS into situations where all of the adults were using alcohol and drugs and were incapacitated by their use and said it was OK because the grown ups were inside and all of the kids were outside and didn’t see.
• You have let DS and the kids of those friends run around outside unsupervised right next to a major highway.
• You have committed abusive behavior in front of DS.
• You have committed r* with DS not only in same the room, but in the same bed.
• All of these behaviors (and more) were considered by the court when they set up the visitation in such a manner as to protect DS.
• You are not actively working towards recovery from your alcoholism or abusive behavior.
• You have not even attempted to show that you’ve taken any steps towards recovery.
• You have failed to abide by the other terms of the court orders regarding visitation and support or treatment/counseling.
• In short, you have not proven that you have met any of the standards that the court put in place to protect the best interest of DS.

The list could go on. And sending it probably is NOT the best course of action, so after typing it, I’d delete it or move it to my journal not to be viewed by any one. OK, it helped me to type it out here.

I've no words of advice. I'm dealing with similar stuff with XAH and am trying really hard to sit on my hands, because he hasn't asked any question. And, right now I'm actually kind of mad about the 'tone' of his e-mail. I've gone through a whole range of emotions about it; it's bizarre. One little e-mail...

Noday, I love the "Moron" folder.

Hang in there, Mama+2.

mamaplus2kids

I love the "Moron" folder! Have created one!!! Love sticking those emails in there.