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Quacking...I get it now...

Old 02-18-2011, 03:24 PM
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Angry Quacking...I get it now...

I've read and even commented on posts that refer to quacking, but I didn't really understand what people meant by that. I would read and hear, but didn't get it.

Ok...wow...I get it now. I got it last night. For an entire hour. Quack, quack, quacking and then some. I wouldn't be surprised to go over to my RAH's house and find webbed feet today.

I've been so bothered by the conversation that I've had to take today to stand back and be objective about it. I've read my books, reviewed by step 1 work, spent time in the step forum. Read previous posts on F&F. And hello!

He's a total QUACKER! OMG! No wonder my BS meter is going off full force! My RAH is not R'ing. He's scamming AA! He's scamming himself. He is not in recovery, he is skating on the very top of it all, like its some kind of competition. No wonder I don't see any change. He's not changing anything. It dawned on me that this whole AA/Al-Anon meeting proximity thing - even though its my issue - partly has to do with the fact that he doesn't want me to be a part of his recovery...didn't even try to see if I was there last night...didn't even look out the window for crying out loud (and I sat in the car for a couple minutes before I went in, watching) because he doesn't want anyone there to know who I am and potentially call his BS. I actually think today he probably hasn't told anyone there that HIS WIFE LEFT HIM.

He's a very high functioning alcoholic. And I think he is seriously blowing smoke up his own a$$ right now. How...at 90 days sober...can someone be having a "great time". When you just lost your family?! I read the posts on the alcoholism forum - those people are struggling. My RAH is not struggling at all; he's practically dancing through the 12 steps with a little tutu on.

I know this guy. He's a fake. And last night - I got fake, fake, quack, quack, my life is fine, I am not angry with you, I love AA meetings, my sponsor thinks I am doing so well, blah blah blah. And then started arguing with me as soon as I said I was feeling sad...and then got mad and told me I was arguing and he wasn't going to have a fight...everything would be fine if I just "move back and start being a wife and accept an imperfect marriage" OMG have I been down this road before. On the outside is this charming, funny, outgoing man. Scratch the surface, just a little, and underneath is an angry, hostile man who will take your finger off for scratching. And that man hides and hides and the mental gymnastics he must have to do to keep that angry drunk man hidden is astonishing! Believe me - I heard it yesterday - its astonishing the BS he comes up with to justify his complete lack of personal responsibility to anything.

Do you think the old-timers at AA see through this? I know his family doesn't...but I know how he feels about them even though they view him as the prodigal son. He BS's them too. Quack!

He only meets with his sponsor once a week. He gets assignments, does them, and turns them in. Not much conversation - he even asked me if this seemed normal?! My first impression is the sponsor doesn't want to work with you until he knows you are serious - you QUACKER!

He is so deeeeeeeep in his own denial. No wonder I am so bothered by that conversation - today I finally realize why - its QUACKING!

Just had to vent out loud. Now I am going to buy my own house and to he11 with him. Quacker.
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:15 PM
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LOL! You're mad! That's okay.
When I hung up the phone from the call with my husband (at the end of couple's counseling session #2), the therapist asked, "What did you make of that?" and I said, "he sounds reeeaaallly reasonable, but you'll notice he is nice and neutral and doesn't get into specifics and you can't really pin him down?"
The therapist got a wry smile and said, "I DID notice that."
So, even if he can talk the talk for a minute, it isn't deep.
Sounds like your AH can talk the talk for 90 days.
Hugs to you
peace

PS. this is post 1000 for me! Am I cured yet? Geez!
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:21 PM
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THE best thing you can do is take the focus off your A and onto you. That means: putting yourself first when finding a meeting to attend; doing what you need to do to provide a safe and sane home for yourself; leaving his recovery (or lack thereof) firmly on his side of the street to deal with; suiting up with your armour so that the quacking just bounces right off; detach, detach, detach.

A friend of mine (psych) said it is pointless trying to understand the mental machinations of someone who isn't emotionally/mentally/whatever balanced.. it will drive you nuts trying to fathom them. Wise words.. which I had wish I had heeded when I was trying to understand my ex lol.

Tx
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:01 PM
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Are you sure he's still not drinking since you don't live together?

It is hard to believe he can put up that front for 90 days. Maybe going to meetings puts him in a good mood. I'm home with my kids all day and when I go to an alanon meeting I''m so happy to be with people who've walked the same path. Could it be he's an extrovert and just gets excited when he's in the group? Anyone can be cheery for a couple hours, he might be having a harder time when he's alone.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:03 PM
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Do you think the old-timers at AA see through this?
Yes I think they do.

I agree with tallulah... focus on your life... scan yourself for HALT... realize what this day will mean to YOU.. what you want to achieve or feel this weekend... thinking about someone else is the road to madness as a user called "Ago" told me many times. You will never know. And yes they do Mental Gymnastics. That's their problem. Leave it to them..... (easier said than done I know..)

Ducks quack. That's what they do. We can expect them to quack. We KNOW they will quack. And then.. they quack.




Congrats on the post #1000!! I hope my post #5000 magically brings dettachment!! lol
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:08 PM
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the sun shines brightly sometimes.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:12 PM
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Do you think the old-timers at AA see through this?
Yep I do. A good friend of my sponsor and her hubby (also an old-time) made a bet of $20 with Hugh that I would not make a year.

When I took my 1 year cake, Tinker Bell (yep that was his nickname, he worked at Disneyland) gladly paid Hugh the $20 and told me that was the best bet ever that he lost, lmao

Old-timers will allow him the luxury of continuing to dig his own hole until the pain is so bad he actually asks for help.

As to this:

He only meets with his sponsor once a week. He gets assignments, does them, and turns them in.
Sounds like a very strange way of sponsoring to me.

Of course he's Quacking. He is either 'skating' or is on the 'pink cloud' and still has no clue as to what work he needs to do.

Please, for your own sanity, serenity, and peace of mind disengage as much as possible.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:20 PM
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Wow....

...major breakthrough Tuffgirl!

You, my dear, rock!

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Old 02-18-2011, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
Do you think the old-timers at AA see through this?

He gets assignments, does them, and turns them in. Not much conversation - he even asked me if this seemed normal?!
Probably - it's pretty easy to see when someone is inauthentic, especially if he's going to the same meeting regularly. I don't have any sponsees but the primary goal is to keep people sober. You can lead 'em to the water, but some of us would drown in it before we drank it.

Could be his sponsor is new or not confident enough to call BS.

Cut your losses and say a prayer for him, it sounds like he needs it.
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:19 AM
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So my daughter was obsessed with The Wiggles when she was little...anyone else? All I can think of when we talk about quacking is that song they sang about Captain Feathersword...it is running through my head constantly: "Quack, quack, quack, quack, cockle-doodle-doo"...
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:45 AM
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Ok I am better this morning...

Originally Posted by HeyImme View Post
So my daughter was obsessed with The Wiggles when she was little...anyone else? All I can think of when we talk about quacking is that song they sang about Captain Feathersword...it is running through my head constantly: "Quack, quack, quack, quack, cockle-doodle-doo"...
LOL! My kids are too old for the Wiggles, but my nephews were and this sounds familiar!

I am also laughing this morning at my post. Yeah, I was mad when the finally realization hit me. Now I think its hilarious - I crack up myself a lot; I am rarely white-hot angry so when I do get that way, I think afterward its funny! - because this is exactly what I would have said to him several months ago. However, with the support and knowledge I've been receiving from SR and Al-Anon, I can come vent it here instead of even wasting my oxygen on him.

I figured the old-timers at his AA group see right through this. My Aunt, who lives on the East Coast and is a 20 yr recovering alcoholic can see right through it over the phone. Says this is actually pretty classic for the high functioning alcoholics who really don't experience any consequences, even a spouse leaving and taking the kids often isn't enough of a consequence for them to "get it". The beginnings of health problems don't worry them; they still have a job, a house, a car... "this really isn't as big a problem as that crazy wife of mine makes it out to be" - and he seems he!!-bent on proving me wrong. That's what this really feels like...he has set out to prove me wrong. Sad.

So yeah, I met with the bank, got my qualification papers, and am officially on the house hunt. I have one more month of saving to have the down payment in full. My credit looks awesome - got something out of this sham of a marriage after all. My girls are excited. I am scared to death but hey - I recognize this will pass in time. And so we keep moving forward...

Thanks all - it feels good to scream it out loud sometimes, as long as I scream it to the world and not to the A, right?!

Now I am off to go skiing on this fresh new powder we have here today! It's going to be a good weekend...!

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Old 02-19-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle View Post
Could be his sponsor is new or not confident enough to call BS.
Or he realizes what most of us here do.

You can't manufacture willingness.

I've watched people do that a meetings, it's pretty much standard practice, we don't 'call people out'.

If they're attending meetings, they have at least a minimum recognition that they have a problem, what they do with it is strictly up to them.

Btw, I 'called someone out' myself, I'm almost positive it did nothing except p*ss them off and make me look like a fool, indeed, it was a foolish thing to do.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:09 AM
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Thanks, sailorjohn...this is what my Aunt explained yesterday. I was pretty mad at AA, thinking surely someone there will lean across the table, stick a finger in his face, and say you are a QUACKER, dude. Get real.

But no, that's not how the program works. And his in-authenticity is probably why his sponsor comes across as not very invested, either. My Aunt said, why invest in someone who is not serious? As a sponsor, you can tell. And she's let people go for this very reason, "Come back when you are truly ready". She said cases like this are super energy draining and most sponsors would rather focus on those who are serious and ready to make some real life-altering changes.

However, they will let him keep coming back, for as long as he wants, and keep him engaged but at a distance, because at least he is there and not out drinking. And maybe someday he will "get it", that is he is only really faking himself.

Everyone here is right - its easy to pick up on a person not being authentic and genuine. They never get specific, you can't pin them down on anything, they are easily angered and defensive when they are called out, and they come off as being just fine all the time.

I also recognize I need a few more open AA meetings under my belt. Will try to catch one this weekend. I have two old-timer recovering alcoholics in my life that I can talk this over with but actually seeing a meeting would be really beneficial.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:44 AM
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I attended my rabf's 1 year celebration AA meeting today, and I was also there for his 90 day celebration 9 months ago.

He was hanging on by a thread back then, not drinking, but quack quack quacking, self pitying, the works...what a difference now.

He is so self aware, he blames no one, he is calm and thoughtful, and the journey has just begun for him as a sober man. I was humbled to be there today. Recovery is a blessing.

Take care of you...leave your RAH to his higher power. That's all we can do.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:55 AM
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seekingcalm has a good point. Sometimes what comes across as "quacking" is actually the person trying to talk the talk before they have learned to walk it. IOW, it could be a stage of actual recovery.

He will either grow and develop into true recovery, or he will eventually relapse or simply live an unsatisfying sober life. That's up to him.
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:25 AM
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I agree with both Seekingcalm and LexieCat - during my AH first treatment and recovery spell I think that was the case. He did transform and become less self-centered and more aware of his surroundings. His sobriety lasted about 18 months, been drinking for the last 4 months and just returned from another treatment trip early - staying 48 hours - said it was a "waste of his time".

His sponsor was pissed before he went and I'm not geting involved now once he returned - this is his relationship (he has a great sponsor).

I thought I related to quacking but I really GET IT this time around. Sounds like we are married to the same man right now - OMG!

Find comfort for yourself and don't be drug along for the emotional ride. Mine has already started.

HAPPY house hunting - SO happy for you!!
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
seekingcalm has a good point. Sometimes what comes across as "quacking" is actually the person trying to talk the talk before they have learned to walk it. IOW, it could be a stage of actual recovery.

He will either grow and develop into true recovery, or he will eventually relapse or simply live an unsatisfying sober life. That's up to him.
Thanks for this, all.

You may have a very valid point. And this is why I love SR!

It may be that I am too focused on my own needs for a particular "kind" of action that I am overlooking other kinds of action.

Need to ponder this for a while...thank you again!
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