Been a while...hello..

Old 02-16-2011, 08:22 AM
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Been a while...hello..

Hello...I've been reading some of the posts the last few days, I haven't been here in a while but am still grateful for how much this forum always helps.

I read the thread about how quickly they move on...because I took a few steps forward this last year, then a few back, so I need to do some hard work now.

In March (I think) of 2010, I got a PPO against my EXABF...alcoholic/ex meth-addict...who was verbally/emotionally/physically abusive over the last five years. I also have an 11 year old who was definitely emotionally abused by the whole situation. My son and I both went through counseling this past year...life was starting to be ok. I was growing quite a bit, doing lots of codependency work, no relationship...mainly working on the relationship with myself, being a good mom.

I ran into exabf in November, and pulled something really dumb...not only slept with him that night, but gave my number. Which is where it started again.

At first, I really thought he had changed. And, I also though I had changed enough to where I wasn't being affected...but I was wrong. I was texting him, and sneaking out late to see him (because of my son, and the PPO). Looking back, I think he just became better at manipulating me. I told him if he had changed he needed to prove it from a distance (as in, I wasn't going to allow him to move back in with me, or around my son). He said he was willing to do what it took, that he realized what he lost, etc.

Red flag #1 for me...which I ignored...he is still drinking. I thought to myself, if he really is a better person, maybe the drinking wouldn't be so bad.

So I established boundaries...when he started his "stuff" with me of trying to be controlling, demanding I stop talking to guy friends I made, constantly being selfish (getting angry when I wouldn't sneak out some nights), I would refused to see him. I told him I would NOT drop the PPO until after at least 3 months of consistent visible change.

I guess I am quite proud of myself, because looking back, I would have just let him move right back in. But at the same time, disappointed, because now I feel like, I am having to start over again.

We were still talking, when I got the text from him that he had found "the one", and since I didn't act like I loved him or wanted him enough (for his ego, basically), he went elsewhere.

Now, I know, if he had changed, he would have respected and understood my boundaries and the reasons for them...number one being my son, and myself and my sanity, combined with all of the things he has done.

The woman he is seeing is married. He told me she is getting divorced, and that they are in love and happy. After all I have learned and know, this still hurts so much. It is the being replaced thing. He fed me with lots of pretty lies in the short month and a half we talked...that he realized how much he loved me, we had some really great, intense moments together. I was starting to fall for it. Ignoring red flags left and right.

Everyone tells me how "nice" and "good" this woman is. Alright...she probably is nice, and maybe she is cheating on her husband for a "valid" reason. But xabf is STILL living at home, not working, not paying support...so is she just another codependent? She apparently comes from a good family. How nice is she that she is cheating on her hubby? She denies to people about the affair, tells everyone they are friends. I know it is wrong to obsess. But I am doing it, some days more than others.

Is it possible that these men can find a woman, and maybe without the bad history, and a fresh start with someone new, can somehow change and be good and treat her right, even while drinking?

Another thing that bothers me, is that they haven't known each other that long...and her dad is in the hospital, very ill. He has been spending lots of time with her at the hospital. He was NEVER there for me the past 5 years when I need support, but he is being there for her? I just don't get it.

I have seen pictures of her, she is not all that attractive, she isn't ugly...so I don't think it's the looks, we were always very attracted to each other.

If she is nice, and good, and people even say she won't put up with bullsh*t...then what is she doing with him?

Again, I know I need to focus on me, and I am...I truly am going on with my life, but I seem to get stuck on this thought of things working out between them. If anyone can say anything to help me get unstuck, or make me feel better, I would appreciate it.

I keep telling myself it's gonna crash and burn, and Karma will eventually find it's way...but some days...the obsession is still there.

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Old 02-16-2011, 08:35 AM
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"Is it possible that these men can find a woman, and maybe without the bad history, and a fresh start with someone new, can somehow change and be good and treat her right, even while drinking?"

No, IMO, I don't think so. It doesn't matter if she is nice or anything else. He is using this/her to manipulate your feelings. He is being successful.

Read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft

It was recommended to me on this site. It changed my view of me and him. It is a lifesaver.

You can preview it on google books..which is what I did...and immediately bought it afterwards......

It will bring you comfort when you are able to see what he is doing to you..This book will open your eyes to that!!!!

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Old 02-16-2011, 08:36 AM
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a) yes, listen to your gut. STOP contacting him and refuse contact from him. He is a toxic, abusive person. He brings nothing to your life except torture and pain.

b) Abusers *rarely* change. Right now, he's in a honeymoon phase with his new flavour of the month. Soon enough, she'll become his new plaything/victim.

Heck, you might find HER contacting YOU in a few years, asking if he treated you as bad as he treated her (how do I know? I was babymama #3 to an abuser and I contacted babymama #3 to get some straight answers).

IMO, you ran into your X for a reason. HP was giving you an opportunity to test your boundaries and confirm the knowledge that this person is POISON for you.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:48 AM
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HI.
No, I can say with almost certainty that it is not this healthy, glowing, wonderful situation.
My A would leave, find a girl who had gaping holes in her self esteem, he would slather on the charm, and the VICTIM stories. They always wanted to rescue him.

She is MARRIED. it is not helathy.
Even if she leaves her husband, and she is a "good person" who doesnt take crap...There is something fishy.

After all, you are also a good person. We all are good people who got ensnared with alcoholics. Who fell victim to another persons disease.
Pleas, do not obsess over whether she is "better" for him, or more tolerant, or more compassionate than you have been.

There is no comparison. You are acting out of good parenting instinct. You fell back to old patterns, you caught yourself.

He was laying on you all the "Ive changed, I love you, I want us to work.." just a little while ago. He is now laying something on her, and for whatever reason, (which is not your problem) she has puzzle pieces that fit his dysfunction right now..
A sick and dying parent, a failing marriage.
These are unhealthy terms under which to start a new relationship, and I imagine he is a bit of a diversion or a distraction from some real pain she is living with.

Do not mistake that for love. If this lasts longer than a few months, and the dust settles, and it may take longer, he will show his real colors.

I worked with a man for 20 years who could be called a tyrant. We worked together creatively. Once a very high profile producer was working with us, and Tyrant was pulling the same tricks, and I became beat down, sad, angry. Producer pulled me aside and said something I will never forget:
" You cannot take this personally. He will treat anyone the same way as long as they allow him to. "
I ended up leaving the project. Because I did not want to allow it anymore. You did that, fell back a little, and she will probably do the same, but its not your homework to worry about.

Your ex isnt magically warm and receptive and wonderful with her. She is not perfect, and I know your mind well. I know what you are thinking and how it feels.

You dont have to do this to yourself.
Forgive yourself for falling back with him, and look ahead.

and, PS; karma does have a way of working itself out. we have to sometimes let go of the notion that we are going to see the end result. The universe knows what to do. Your job is to take care of you and your son.

God Bless
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:59 AM
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I just want to add that many of the women that my A ended up going with for periods of time were made to sound just magically wonderful at first. One of them ended up being a ridiculously sick enabler who would drive him to and pick him up from the bar, stocked her fridge with vodka and waited for him, since he forbade her from going out with him. He used her and she is now so broken she literally runs if she sees him coming. He was abusive, but she did not know what that was at that time.

Another was just beautiful, physically, but ended up having serious borderline personality disorder. She stalked him relentlessly, until he had to cut off all contact from her. She moved away.

Another was his ex high school sweetie, who he always compared me to. She ended up calling me one day to compare notes and realized he lied to her at every turn, had made me a villain to her. She said he was abusive and terrible to her as well. It was such a revelation.

But to hear it from him, or his cronies, or just socially, all these girls were so much nicer than me, they understood him...

But I did not get these validations whe I obsessively needed them, they came after I let go.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:13 AM
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Be grateful -- your HP is watching out for you big time.

Read that book that Passionfruit recommended it really is important for your understanding.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
b) Abusers *rarely* change. Right now, he's in a honeymoon phase with his new flavour of the month. Soon enough, she'll become his new plaything/victim.
This, exactly.

If he had been himself right when you first started dating, it wouldn't have gotten any further.

That same trick he used to hook you, he is now using on someone else.

She is not "better" than you, she is "newer" than you.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:44 AM
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Those obsessions are the road to madness dear soconfused.

I do remember you.
And I think this man has hurt you way too much already to let him continue do the same.

I recommend "The language of letting go" by Melody Beatty.

People don't change magically. Real change takes years if not decades! and takes constant effort, new actions, therapy, self honesty. Proof that someone has changed? he or she is no longer hurting anyone, let alone consciously.

So No, IMHO this guy has not changed a bit. He keeps wanting to hurt you to feed his needs. Its still all about him. Your mission, soconfused, if you decide to accept it, is to hand him to HP, hand her to HP, realize you will never know how it really is like for them (that it does not take away anything from you). For all accounts it is the same madness. When I start obsessing I imagine a bad experience with XABF and think she is the one there now, no longer me, and May God help them.

I mean it is just like us, right? when I went out with XABF everyone said what a great couple yadda yadda. To this day people think he is still a great person! where did reality show up? in my long nights crying alone, feeling the loneliest person on Earth, and in my therapy sessions. You never know what women (well, people) are really going through. I guess it has been an eye opener for me as I am now renting an apartment next to my therapist's home, and have gone to group therapy, and have met these seemingly successful, beautiful women that have it all.... and in reality they are destroyed internally or in really sad situations at home, behind closed doors...

BTW group therapy has also been helpful for me, to get more clarity about why I constantly compare myself and hurt myself this way. I think it all boils down to self worth notions. If I know who I am, the place I am in does not matter, what others do or do not do does not matter, what others think or do not think about me does not matter... no one else's apparent joy takes away ANYTHING from me....

The guy you want back or imagine he is now does no longer exist I am afraid. It is "illusion and fantasy". And sanity lives in the reality today... the reality for you... nowhere else. This guy is toxic and it does not matter if others are falling for his lies, or too hurt already to realize who he really is.

He is still toxic.

Hugs!! also of course I vote for No Contact and changing your #.
(Counting my blessings helps, too.)
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:07 PM
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Thank everyone, for all the support, it is all EXACTLY what I needed to hear. And on my days where I obsess, I can just come and reread this over if I need to.

Everyone is so right, too...it's amazing, how everyone really does know my mind...makes me feel very much less alone in my struggles.

I did change the number once, they even did it free as a courtesy...he got my new one from a mutual friend of ours.

He pretty much has left me alone, only texted me once this past week, and I don't text him, so right now, there is no urgency to spend the $35 to change it again.

He has hurt me, and my son, tremendously, I have cried so many tears over him. And my son has really suffered internally from all of it. I STILL feel the guilt over that. I wasted so much precious time on him, when it should have been spent on my precious little man. Still working on forgiving myself for that, some days are better than others. Ironically enough..now that I am trying to draw closer and closer to my son, he turns 12 next month, so of course he is pulling away, becoming more independent and I am "not cool" in his eyes. I guess I can be thankful he is independent...he could have had serious issues considering what he has went through. He really is a great kid, makes me laugh every day.

XABF didn't like the changed me. He wanted me to be the person I was when we met, revolving my world around him, putting him on a pedestal, etc. I think it was in another thread I was reading how A's get desperate if they think they might be abandoned, and try getting someone else in the wings as a replacement. He was constantly needing me to be more loving, more reassuring, more this, more that...but I think he knew that I was stronger. I was showing more "self-love", and he didn't like it.

It is amazing how much better they become at their own game...they can adapt to so many different personalities/people/situations. They are like chamelions (sp?) almost...
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:14 PM
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I just read through everyone's response once again...there is so much good, helpful knowledge here. Each and every post had something new and different to point out...I want everyone to realize just how HELPFUL it all really is...it's like a dose of reality, when we have trouble seeing it for ourselves.

It is so much different to come to SR now that I have changed some...before, I would read posts, and I think I would somehow tuck them away in my stubborn little mind...because I would always go back, always give in...

But...

I later on used the tools I had learned, but now that I have applied some of my tools...and can come back and getting back to good doesn't seem so impossible now, because I have done it.

It's like instead of everyone standing behind me pushing me and yelling at me, they are in front of me, reaching their hand out for me to hold on to, saying "come on...you aren't so far away".
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:20 PM
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Your last post really made me smile!

Mine has not quit drinking, so don't forget that the alcoholism is progressive. So the guy each of the gals after me got was even worse. I know that for a fact.

There comes a time when they can no longer charm anyone even for a short while and their health is shot and then that game no longer works at all.

Just something for you to consider.
It is what I have seen happen with my X abusive alcoholic passion.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:54 PM
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Thanks Live.

I think sometimes its difficult to dettach from them when they are in the "early stages" and still haven't lost much, or their disease is not that obvious yet. For me it has been easy to second guess myself over and over...

XABF is also still a drunk 2 years later. He can fool everyone but not me, Mr Hyde is unacceptable for me, period.
He arrives drunk to work although his body is so used to it now that he appears normal. How sad when I think of it.
THAT is his "normal".

The ones who cared enough to mention this have also moved away from him.

Be gentle with yourself, you made mistakes in the past, what you do differently today is what matters. Chatting with healthier male friends is also good therapy for me, to realize there are many good, fun people out there (really FUN not the alcoholic "fun" that really is just misery)
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sodetermined View Post

He has hurt me, and my son, tremendously, I have cried so many tears over him.
Yes.... I remember.
We were both going through really harsh situations at the same time... then.

We never deserved it (((((((((sodetermined))))))))))))



A thread with links I have found useful:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...99-thanks.html
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sodetermined View Post
I later on used the tools I had learned, but now that I have applied some of my tools...and can come back and getting back to good doesn't seem so impossible now, because I have done it.
That's how Recovery works in all its forms, y'know? It's never just a one step process... it's 2 forward and 1 back...eventually you get to the final destination!


It's like instead of everyone standing behind me pushing me and yelling at me, they are in front of me, reaching their hand out for me to hold on to, saying "come on...you aren't so far away".
This is really beautiful. Love in action.

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Old 02-16-2011, 02:05 PM
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The book TJP recommended is very important too!

I suggest reading it.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:15 PM
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When is it Abuse? Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" | HipMama.com


When is it Abuse? Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?"

When he is so good early on, is he planning to be abusive later?


The abuser doesn't picture himself yelling, degrading her or hurling objects at her. As he falls in love, he dreams of a happy future of conjugal bliss, just as the woman does. He is gazing longingly at the image he holds of the future, where the woman meets all his needs, is beautiful and sexy at all times of the day and night, has no needs of her own, and is in awe of his brilliance and charm. He desires a woman who will cater to him and never complain about anything he does or darken his day with frustrations or unhappiness about her own life. He is largely unaware of these fantasies so his partner has no idea he is looking for morre of a personal caretaker than a partner. In fact, his language tends to be of mutuality during the dating period- I want to be with there for you, etc. He may truly believe his own promises, because he wants to see himself as a generous and thoughtful partner, one who does not use or disrespect women. Later, when he begins to control the woman and take advantage of her, he will find ways to convince himself that it's not happening or that it's her fault. Abuse is not his goal, but control is, and he finds himself using abuse to gain the control he feels he has a right to.



I definitely have to get that book.. thanks!!!!
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:18 PM
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He tells you that your objections to his mistreatment are your own problem- says you are too sensitive, you think everyone is abusing you, you're angry because you are not getting your own way. He is trying to persuade you that you have unreasonable expectations of his behavior, that you are actually reacting to something else and that you are using your complaints against him. These tactics are to discredit your complaints of mistreatment, which is abusive. His core attitude is "you have no right to object to how I treat you".

Wow... another AHA moment here...
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:46 PM
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That book is a huge eye opener. I have re-read it a few times and will again, I am sure.

It also kind of creeps you out when you realize that your situations are not so unique and what is behind it.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:02 AM
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Be gentle with yourself, you made mistakes in the past, what you do differently today is what matters.
Thank you for this important reminder. This is a big one.


Chatting with healthier male friends is also good therapy for me, to realize there are many good, fun people out there (really FUN not the alcoholic "fun" that really is just misery)
He had a major problem with this, he could not grasp the concept that I could have a male friend and not be "physical" or "sexual". Right before he found this new "love of his life", he actually demanded that I choose them or him. I told him I would never abandoned my friends again. Now that I think of it though, I have more true love for a few of my close male friends then I ever did Chris. They build me up, not tear me down. And since I came from a home where my dad was an alcoholic, followed by 2 disfunctional long term relationships, it is HUGE for me...to have that validation from a man that I am a good person, I am fun, kind, smart, and beautiful just the way I am. I don't know, just made me feel less "flawed" I guess. That it really is him, and not me.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:04 AM
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Yes.... I remember.
We were both going through really harsh situations at the same time... then.

We never deserved it (((((((((sodetermined))))))))))))

(((((((takingcharge))))))) right back atchya! I remember you too. And you are soooo right. We did not.
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